Last night, I read and commented on Hoffman's post about what defines greatness. I said there that I would make a list displaying my top ten. And thus, here is that list of the ten greatest NBA players. But when making such a list, you'll come across many definitions of great. That's what makes it hard to put out a definative list.

When I first visualized this list, I imagined that I might have too many candidates to make just ten choices. As I debated the players, though, I soon found that there might be too few candidates! Because greatness is defined in many different ways, and my definition probably won't satisfy all. In the end, here's my criteria:

The player must have been a winner, but it doesn't necessarily mean championships won (the Robert Horry rule).

Stats are important, and all-around ability is very important (The scoring champion rule).

The player must have been a major player in some era (not necessarily the most dominant).

Talent on the team is considered (if he was surrounded by HOFers, he loses some points; likewise, players with little help get more points).

So, here's the list:

10. Oscar Robertson: Getting to ten wasn't easy (see the Honorable Mentions), but in the end, Robertson simply didn't get the accolades he deserved for being the most well-rounded guard in NBA history. In college at Cincinnati, he won three scoring titles as well as three Player of the Year trophies. He then won a gold medal in the 1960 Olympics, before beginning his pro career with the Royals in 1960. He won ROY honors after averaging 30.5 PPG, 10.1 RPG and 9.7 APG. His piece de resistance was the 1961-62 campaign, where he averaged a triple-double for the season (30.8 PPG, 12.5 RPG, and 11.4 APG). People today talked about Jason Kidd getting triple-doubles in a GAME like it's hot stuff. Imagine getting it over a season! He made 12 All-Star teams and won a championship in 1971 with Milwaukee.

9. Jerry West: These first two may be the ones that get me in trouble, but West, like Robertson, was overshadowed during his career (like many stars of the 1960s) by the Celtic dynasty. West won practically everywhere he went, first by taking West Virginia to the 1959 NCAA title game, then winning a gold medal in 1960 (Oscar and West in the same backcourt? Scary!). He then joined the Lakers just as they arrived in Los Angeles in 1960. He averaged a solid 17.6 PPG and 7.7 RPG. He went on to 30+ PPG four times over his career (he won the 1970 scoring title) and helped the Lakers make the Finals nine times in his career. Though they won only once, West was brilliant in defeat (he won the first Finals MVP in 1969 and remains the only player from the losing team to win the award). He soon moved into management, and built the Lakers into a powerhouse in the 1980s and with the Shaq-Kobe Lakers of the early 2000s.

8. Shaquille O'Neal: The Big (fill in the blank) may not be very dominant today, but in his heyday, Shaq was the most physically imposing player any center could face. His resume speaks for itself: ROY for Orlando in 1993, a gold medal in 1996, a regular season MVP in 2000, two scoring titles (1995 and 2000), six trips to the NBA Finals, four titles and three Finals MVP honors. O'Neal was so dominant, teams resorted (and still do occasionally) to fouling him and forcing free throws. Despite that flaw, O'Neal became the most feared player of his era since Wilt (in many people's opinions). And, of course, he was a great interview!

7. Julius Erving: Dr. J was basketball's breath of fresh air in the 1970s and 80s. Erving gets left this low because his teams underachieved (just one NBA title), but Erving was no doubt the biggest star in the league during its roughest period of time. After leaving UMass in 1971 (while the NBA didn't have a hardship rule at the time, the ABA did, which prompted the NBA to counter), Erving signed with the Virginia Squires. With his debut in the pros, he now could become the Doctor (remember, college ball outlawed the dunk during Erving's time in college). Erving made the Squires a force to be reckoned with, but soon he wanted to jump to the NBA. After a messy battle, he joined the New York Nets after a complicated deal, and led the Nets to two ABA titles. Acquired by Philadelphia for cash, he immediately made his NBA mark, winning All-Star Game MVP honors the first year and leading the Sixers to the Finals. Overall, he was an All-Star every year of his ABA and NBA career, was NBA league MVP in 1981 (the only player to win ABA (1974-76) and NBA MVP), played in four NBA Finals and won the title in 1983.

6. Larry Bird: Bird wasn't the most imposing player on the court, but few players were more basketball savvy as he was. Bird exceeded his physical limits with that skill, and made the Boston Celtics relevent again after a bad stretch in the late 70s. After leading Indiana State to the 1979 NCAA final, Bird signed with the Celtics, who had drafted him the prior year. Bird went on to ROY honors after averaging 21.3 PPG and 10.4 RPG. He also made the All-Star team (he hit the first All-Star three pointer) that year. The next season, he led the retooled Celts to their first title in five years. His greatest stretch occured in the mid-80s, as he won three straight MVP awards (joining Russell and Chamberlain as the only players to win three straight) from 1984-86. His best individual season occured in 1986, when he was among the top ten in five different categories (scoring, 4th; rebounds, 7th; steals, 9th; FT%, 1st; and 3point%, 4th). Overall, he won three NBA titles, was first team All-NBA nine times, and played in 10 All-Star games.

5. Wilt Chamberlain: Wilt was undoubtedly the Shaq of his era; nobody could match his strength and physical play. But he wasn't very successful despite the stats (just two titles) because, in my view, his domination of the scoring made his team less willing to participate (call it the 'Wilt' rules). Nonetheless, Chamberlain was the most dominant stats player of his era. He won not only ROY, but regular season MVP, in 1960 (only Wes Unseld in 1969 has done it since) as well as the first of seven straight scoring titles. His 1961-62 season may be one of the best of all time; he averaged 50.4 PPG (a league record that still stands), 25.7 RPG and over 48 minutes a game (he sat for all of eight minutes that year, for an average of 48.5) and scored 100 points in a game against the Knicks! But it wasn't until he changed his game to focus more on defense and boards that his teams won the big prize. Chamberlain led the 76ers to the 1967 title with a then record 68-13 mark, and then led the 1972 Lakers to a league record 69-13 record, winning his second title that year. His career scoring mark stood for 11 years after he retired, and his rivalry with Russell made the NBA go in its early years.

4. Bill Russell: Russell may have been the greatest winner of all time (two NCAA titles, a gold medal in 1956, and 11 NBA titles over his 13 year career), but he's not #1 because he was surrounded by immense talent during his career (at one point in his career, he played with six fellow HOFers). But Russell was the man on the most dominant team in NBA history. After picking up his gold in 1956, Russell joined the Celtics mid-season and finished 4th in rebounds anyway (his 19.8 average would have led the league, but the title wasn't awarded on averages until 1970; it was decided on total rebounds). He led the Celts to the 1957 title after a 19 point, 32 rebound preformance in game 7 of the series with the Hawks. After the C's lost in 1958 (Russell hurt his ankle in game 3 and the team lost in six), the Celtics ran off eight straight championships. Russell won four rebounding titles in his career, and was the first black player to be named regular season MVP in 1958. He added four more over his career, and was the first player to win three straight from 1961-63. Consider this; the Celtic reign began when Eisenhower was president; it ended when his VP, Richard Nixon, was pres! That's all you need to know about the greatest dyansty in sports history.

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Kareem may be the all-time leading scorer in NBA history, but he didn't win titles consistently until a guy we'll see later came along. Kareem was the most imposing center in the game in college in the 60s; college rulemakers outlawed the dunk prior to his enrollement in fear that he would destroy backboards and frighten fellow players. That didn't stop Kareem and the UCLA Bruins from going 88-2 with three titles (and Kareem winning two POY awards). After being drafted by the Bucks in 1969, Jabbar made the lowly expansion team an immediate contender, taking the team from 27 wins the previous year to 56. The next year, after adding Oscar Robertson and other vets, the Bucks rolled to a 66-16 record and their only NBA title. Kareem led the Bucks to another Final in 1974, but a year later, he forced a trade to the Lakers. He won MVP his first two years in L.A, but the Lakers couldn't win in the playoffs. Then, with the addition of our soon-to-appear player, Kareem won five titles and remained a big time player even as he aged; he was Finals MVP in 1985 when he was 38 (he also won the award in 1971), and at age 40, he averaged 17.5 PPG and 6.7 RPG. He played in 18 All-Star games and won a record six regular season MVPs.

2. Michael Jordan: Though many people today debate just how great Jordan is, there's little doubt he was the king of the NBA in the 1990s. Unlike many of the players on this list, Jordan didn't have many HOFers in his mitts (only one player who played with Jordan has made the HOF as of this year, and that was a soon-to-retire George Gervin in the 'Iceman's final year of 1985-86). Jordan first showed his clutch ability in 1982 when, as a freshman, he hit the game winning shot as North Carolina beat Georgetown. He then won two college POY awards and a gold medal in 1984. Drafted by the Bulls (third overall behind Hakeem Olajuwon and, gulp, Sam Bowie!), Jordan was named ROY after averaging 28.2 PPG, 6.5 RPG and 5.9 APG. After a serious injury in 1986, he cemented his starburst by scoring a playoff-record 63 points against the Celtics in a double-OT loss in game 2 of the first round. The next year, he won the first of seven straight scoring titles with a 37.1 PPG average (the best by a player since Chamberlain averaged 44.8 in 1962-63. Though scoring was Jordan's main game, he was also an excellent defender; he was named to nine All-Defensive 1st teams and won Defensive POY in 1988. But when he decided to trust his team more, the Bulls became a dynasty, winning six titles in eight years, with Jordan winning Finals MVP all six times. He also won five regular season MVPs and  three All-Star Game MVPs (in 13 appearences).

1. Magic Johnson: When you look at the list, many players may have lacked in at least one area. Magic was the most complete player, in my opinion, in NBA history. He could score, rebound, set up his team, play solid D, accumulate stats, and most importantly, win games. Magic was a winner from the start, starting in high school, continuing at Michigan State (where he won the 1979 NCAA title) and then in the NBA, where he made the Los Angeles Lakers the most dominant team in the NBA in the 1980s and early 90s. Magic showed early on his intense desire to win; with league MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar hurt, Magic started at center for game 6 of the 1980 Finals, played all five positions, had a 42 point, 15 rebound, 7 assist game, and helped the Lakers wrap up the title (when most expected a game seven) over the Sixers 123-107 in that game. That season began a run unlike any seen since the Celtic dynasty; the Lakers won no fewer than 54 games in each of Magic's full seasons, won ten division titles, nine conference titles, and five NBA titles. Magic led the league in assists four times and became the all-time assists leader in 1991 (John Stockton and Mark Jackson have since surpassed him). He won three regular season MVPs (1987, 1989-90) and three Finals MVPs (1980, 1982 and 1987), as well as two All-Star game MVPs (1990 and 1992, which was truly memorable). For that. Magic is #1!

Honorable Mentions:

Hakeem Olajuwon: Hard to keep Hakeem out, but as consistently great as he was, he rarely stood out; he's sort of like John Wayne; you expect greatness, and thus when he does it, you're underwhelmed. Let's call him 10B.

Tim Duncan: Ditto; we expect good numbers, so we don't care.

Kobe Bryant: Needs another title to get into the discussion.

Elgin Baylor and Charles Barkley: Never won a title, and though I said you didn't necessarliy have to, that blemish hurts them the most.

Karl Malone: See above.

Robert Horry: O.K., I'm just kidding; he wasn't even considered, because he was simply lucky to be on seven title teams; Tom Sanders was on eight title teams. Is he one of the greats? Hell no!

There's the list. Have any objections or changes to make? I'm open to suggestion. Until then, may the Pistons win tonight; I'm 4-0 picking games in this round!