So, I'm finished with my Western Conference preview, and now I'm gonna have to really hurry it up to get the Eastern conference done. I might not finish by the season opener, but hopefully I won't go too far beyond that. As with before, the actual number that I rank a team isn't as important as the category I place them in. I don't particularly like ranking everyone in the preseason because there's so much that can change during the season, but I do think there are definite groups that you can place teams in. In the East, the groupings are going to be a bit different than in the West because really, the East is so mixed up that anyone could make the playoffs and I wouldn't be surprised.
Eastern Conference
Championship Contenders
1) Boston Celtics - I'm buying the Celtics. The more I think about them and the more I watch them in the preseason, the more I'm sold on this group of players. It's been years since KG has looked this happy, and he's undoubtedly the best post player in the East. The only problem I have is the incompetent Doc Rivers at coach, but really, you can count the good NBA coaches on one hand, and I'm pretty sure a team with The Truth, Jesus Shuttlesworth, and The Big Ticket can basically coach itself.
2) Chicago Bulls - There's not a deeper team in the conference than Chicago. They've got a great backcourt, and they're a GREAT defensive team. The problem is that the Bulls still don't have a legitimate post scorer to go to. Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng are great, but they're streaky, and the Bulls don't have anyone to go to in the post when the perimeter shots aren't falling. The development of Tyrus Thomas as a force at the PF spot will be key to their championship hopes. Of course, the other variable is what's going to happen with Kobe. The Bulls are by far the frontrunner to put together a package for Kobe, and that's a wild card that could really put them into contention.
On The Brink
3) Detroit Pistons - I almost put the Pistons in as a championship contender, almost. However, I just can't bring myself to do it. They melted down against Cleveland last year, and without Ben Wallace, they really seemed to lack the attitude and intensity that they built their run on. Say what you want about him, but Wallace was the heart and soul of that team, and they clearly missed him. If Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson come out like gangbusters and really play well, then this team can be very good, but I think Pistons fans are expecting too much out of the young guys, especially Johnson.
Playoffs or Bust
4) Toronto Raptors - People are going to overlook this team because they don't have many recognizable names, but make no mistake, this is a good team. Bosh is a stud, but the dirty little secret about this team is that they've got the best bench in the NBA. They can show a lot of different looks and they really go 10-12 deep with solid players.
5) Orlando Magic - This is not because of Rashard Lewis. I actually don't think the addition of Lewis is much better than the loss of Milicic and Hill. This ranking comes from the improvement I'm expecting from Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson. Howard is going to be a beast this year, probably the best center in the East, and Nelson has looked very sharp in the preseason.
6) Cleveland Cavaliers - This ranking immediately moves up a few spots if Varejao and Pavlovic come back. Varejao in particular is necessary as he's the team's best post defender and the consummate hustle/garbage guy. Without the two of them, this team is not very good. They'll make the postseason simply because of LeBron, but they need those guys back if they want to have any chance at returning to the Finals.
Not Very Good, But Hey, It's The East!
7) New Jersey Nets - I was reminded this summer of how good Jason Kidd is. Of course, he's only as good as the guys around him, but Jefferson, Carter, and Krstic are good enough running mates to put together a playoff run.
8) Milwaukee Bucks - The thing that really worries me about this team is the fact that Yi was promised playing time. Sure, he's a skilled player, but he's also extremely raw, inexperienced, and needs to get stronger. Still, they've got a good point guard, one of the game's best shooters, and a great young frontcourt.
9) Atlanta Hawks - They can't possibly be as bad as last year, right?...Right? The truth is, everything about these guys says "playoff team", but they're the Hawks, so at the same time they're screaming "WE WILL SCREW THIS UP". If anyone can change the entire losing atmosphere and shore up the point guard position though, it will be Acie Law. He's a natural leader and led an amazing turnaround at Texas A&M, all the while sinking enough game-winning shots to fill a highlight reel.
The Enigmas
10) Washington Wizards - Extremely good offensive team. Extremely bad defensive team. That was good enough for the playoffs last year, I don't think it'll be good enough this year. Of course, this is the East, so they could finish 12th, or they could finish 3rd, and I wouldn't really be surprised.
11) Miami Heat - The star that drives your team is injury-prone and will be out to start the year. Your other star is way past his prime and always out of shape. Your big offseason acquisitions were Smush Parker and a guy who once shot at his own basket in an attempt to get a triple double. Ladies and gentlemen, your 2007-2008 Miami Heat!!!
12) New York Knicks - On the plus side, they maintain a healthy league lead in overweight players and bad contracts. Talent? No question, they've got it. Defense? Nah, not so much. Chemistry? What is this chemistry thing you speak of?
If You're Bad in the East, You're REALLY Bad
13) Charlotte Bobcats - You know, when you have only 2 serviceable post players on your roster, and both of them are injury-prone, you might want to make it a priority to sign a post player. They've got great wing players, and a talented young point guard in Felton, but what are they going to do when Okafor goes down with injury for 15-20 games, as he will inevitably do.
14) Philadelphia 76ers - They have some decent promise for the future. Andre Miller is a very good point guard, and Iguadola is better than I expected him to be. Thaddeus Young is a great talent, and Dalembert has potential to be a strong defensive presence. Still, their bench is basically nonexistent, and their talent is really young.
15) Indiana Pacers - Quick, name me a player on this team not named Jermaine O'Neal who is even league average. Yeah, that's what I thought. Moving on.
Beasts of the East
PG - Jason Kidd SG - Dwayne Wade SF - LeBron James PF - Kevin Garnett C - Dwight Howard
Honestly, these were really easy. I don't think there's any real argument for anyone else. Maybe if you want to call Bosh a center and argue for him over Howard (which is close), or if you wanted to try and argue Billups over Kidd (you could try, but you'd be wrong).
Rooks to Look For
Acie Law IV, PG, Hawks - Sure, he's not exactly a pure point, but would you rather have this guy, or the guy who got stepped over as your starting point guard? Law is as NBA-ready as any point guard you'll see coming out of college, and he has, as they say, huge ####.
Glen Davis, PF, Celtics - Well, somebody has to come of the bench for the Celts. Davis is the classic case of a huge talent who falls in the draft for reasons that shouldn't have dropped them so far. For Davis, he's a bit undersized and had weight problems, but he trimmed down a ton between his sophomore and junior seasons, and he's always been a load to handle inside. Boston doesn't have a lot of post depth, so I'd expect to see Davis a good bit this year.
Sean Williams, C/F, Nets - He's a bit of an unknown after sitting out the last half of the season with Boston College. If he returns to the form he showed at BC, he's a dominant shotblocker and rebounder who would bring a dimension that the Nets sorely lack. The other option is that he continues to be irresponsible and never really does anything with his prodigious talent.
Its nice to see the Bulls getting love in most pre-season rankings, but the more i think about the BUlls, the more i realize they are the same exact team as last year, which although was good, probably isnt good enough to win the East. The Bulls are still a team that if shooting well, can hang with the best, but on off nights can lose to just about anybody. Joe Smith brings some much needed experience to a position where the alternatives are two youngins, but he isnt a legit post threat.
The one thing that the Bulls can hang their hat on is their defense. They are the best defensive team in the East, and that alone gives them a chance to win every game.
What dissapoints me most is how Paxson acknowledged the lack of a post presence on offense and said he would address that need, but only ended up bringing in servicable guys like Smith, Noah and Gray. Paxson really let his fan base down.
On a different note, i think the Raptors will be much better this season. They added a guy who i thought was really undervalued in Detroit, Carlos Delfino. He fits in very well with their system and is a good shooter/slasher with size and a lot of untapped potential. They will really impress this year.
How can the Nets be "not very good"? You know this team was pegged to win 50+ games last season, and only didn't because of major injuries to key players (Cliff Robinson, Nenad Krstic and Richard Jefferson).
Now they're back and healthy, and have added a veteran backup point (Darrell Armstrong), a center who rebounds and defends well (Jamaal Magloire), Kenyon Martin Part Deux (Sean Williams), and a solid veteran reserve big (Malik Allen). Antoine Wright, Bostjan Nachbar and Marcus Williams will all be improved.
How can this team not again be pegged to win at least 50?
The Celtics are garbage. Three SUPPORTING PLAYERS (none of these three clowns ever really were #1 options in the mold of Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, etc.) don't make a team. Rondo at point? Are you serious? Who's on the bench aside from James Posey? And what happens in the games when one or two of the BIG THREE are out with injuries? They lose easily.
A LOT has to go right for this team to meet expectations. It's enough that either Allen, Pierce or KG misses 15-20 games, and those games are lost. They better win 60% of their games when healthy, because when they're not, they ain't winning 40% of their games.
Maybe if the Celtics got Danny Fortson. LOL. J/K
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 24th at 8:10 PM.
Train - The Nets were right on the edge, and I almost put them in the next category up. To be honest, the groups are much less well-defined in the East because there's so much balance. I could see the Nets being as good as 4th or missing the playoffs. They have essentially the same problem as the Bulls in that they don't have any real post scoring options, but they're not nearly the defensive team that Chicago is and they're older and have more injury questions. If things fall right and they get a lot of development out of their young guys, then they could finish in the top half of the East, but they're not going to be a championship contender.
You're severely underrating Boston's 3 stars, especially Garnett, who is easily one of the 50 greatest players of all time. You're right that a lot has to go right for them to succeed, but if they're healthy come playoff time, they're by far the team best equipped to beat a Western Conference team.
Nenad Krstic was putting up 16 and 7 before he tore his ACL. On a team with fewer weapons, he'd easily be a 20 and 10 guy. So you can't say the Nets don't have an interior guy who can score. The Bulls WISH they had someone like Krstic.
Only injuries can stop the Nets. If they're healthy, they can beat anybody, including whatever comes out of the West.
As for your comments on KG, he's one of the best fantasy players ever, and that's where it ends. The rest is all marketing. He's the A-Rod of basketball. He puts up all the numbers except for when it counts most. I watched him last season have the ball in his hands on four different occasions with the game on the line, and he blew it all four times by either bricking a shot or turning it over. He's a talented, skilled big man who does things most guys his size can't. But that doesn't make him Tim Duncan or Shaq or Karl Malone, etc. KG has never won a damn thing. He has never even come close. He's been in the league how long now? 12 years? Out of the first round of the playoffs only once? He is a loser. He's easy to like and fun to watch, but don't confuse him with the REAL superstars. And Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are certainly not superstars.
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 24th at 10:22 PM.
12 years in the league, as the game's second highest-paid player in history, and he took his squad out of the first round of the playoffs ONCE.
ONCE.
ONCE.
ONCE.
Name any other "superstar" or even look at the top 50 NBA players of all-time, and find me ONE GUY who hasn't gotten out of the first round of the playoffs.
Just one. Can you do that? KG is hardly better than Shawn Marion, but because he's 7-feet-tall and kicked off the go-pro-right-out-of-high-school fad in the mid-90's, the guy is considered a stud. Man... he's a role player. A great role player. Put him on the Lakers with a real star like Kobe, and KG will get out of the first round. Put him with Kidd, Duncan, Shaq, LeBron, etc., and he'll sniff the second round. But he's not one of these guys. He's not the straw that stirs the drink. He's a complimentary player.
Top 50 of all time, statistically-speaking, maybe. But talent-wise, production-wise, achievement-wise, he's barely top ten players of the past 15 years.
Off the top of my head, I'd take Kidd, Nash, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Karl Malone, Stockton, Wade, Kemp, Rasheed, Mourning, and one or two others before KG... even Webber at his best, was a MUCH better player than KG.
KG is in a class with the Vince Carter's and Tracy McGrady's and Jermaine O'Neal's of the world. Good players who are marketed as great players... but who really aren't except for on an entertainment level. (PS - I love T-Mac and think he's a real star, but he hasn't done #### so far in his career.)
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 24th at 10:39 PM.
Krstic was having a slightly above-average year by the numbers before he suffered his injury. He's shown about a season and a half of solid play and potential for more, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Anybody in the top 6 of the West would crush this team. It wouldn't be close. The West is WAY better than the East.
I'm not going to penalize KG for playing under the second dumbest GM in the league in an extremely tough conference. No, he's not Duncan or Shaq, but nobody is Duncan or Shaq besides the men themselves, they're 2 of the 10 greatest players of all time.
All three of these guys are first-ballot Hall of Famers, and KG is easily among the 50 greatest players. The only problem for this team will be staying healthy. If they're all healthy, they're the scariest team in the East, and it isn't even close.
Show me one of those guys who played with worse teammates in their prime than KG. Seriously, the best players KG ever played with were Sam Cassell and Wally Szcerbiak. How many playoff series has "a real star like Kobe" won with a bad supporting cast? My count is none. As I recall, the "real stars" in the East like LeBron and Kidd got polished off pretty quickly when they actually had to play Western conference teams in the playoffs, to the tune of a 2-12 record between the two of them. How did Kidd do playing in the West again? Oh yeah, he didn't make it out of the first round, despite playing with Marion, who you said is about the same as KG.
I won't go on cause it would take too long. The point is that KG had a terrible supporting cast in an extremely strong conference, and the only guys on your list who actually are clearly better than KG are Duncan and Shaq.
Kidd has never had a losing season outside of Dallas, and his career win percentage is one of the highest in league history. Before playing with Vince Carter, Kidd never played alongside an All-Star (Marion back then was in his first few years and wasn't who he is now), and yet he took two Nets teams, which were full of average players, to TWO NBA FINALS. Outside of Dallas, he has been to playoffs EVERY SINGLE YEAR of his career. He's gotten out of the first round SIX TIMES.
I know KG hasn't had much of a supporting cast, but he's THE SECOND HIGHEST-PAID PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY. He's also a big man. Come on. Terrell Brandon was good before he got hurt. Marbury wasn't a bum back then. Szczerbiak was one of the best shooters in the game and a near-20 points per game player once upon a time. Joe Smith wasn't a bum. I mean... we're not talking about a shooting guard. We're talking about a post player. A post player needs far less than any other position in order to get W's. ONCE in 12 years out of the first round.
Man... the guy would pass up the ball with the game on the line and clock winding down ALL THE DAMN TIME. If you're the second highest paid baller in league history, and if you're supposed to be so great, why the F are you passing the ball to Trenton Hassell for the last shot? That's KG. He's the damn cowardly lion.
Great players find ways to get ahead. What has KG done? Nothing except collect stats. And the year he did get out of the first round, I'm chalking that up to Sam Cassell, who's led five different teams to the playoffs.
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 25th at 12:14 AM.
And Kidd did make it out of the first round with the Suns. Marion was a rookie that year who only averaged 25 minutes per game.
That team was Cliff Robinson, post-surgery Penny Hardaway (who missed 22 games), and Rodney Rogers. Kidd averaged 14.3 points, 10.1 assists (led the league), 7.2 rebounds (second highest on team), and 2 steals (fifth in league), while being named ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM. The Suns upset the Spurs, before losing to the Lakers, who obviously won the championship.
Those days are over my friend. While having four or five of the better teams in the league, the West also has the worst five or six teams in the league. The East has parity. Sure, maybe nobody sticks out on the level of a Spurs or Suns team, but the weak teams in the East would destroy the weak teams in the West.
Don't tell me the Pistons, Bulls, or Nets couldn't beat the Rockets, Nuggets, Jazz, Lakers, etc. Even the Mavs showed last year how they were made of paper. The Spurs and Suns are the only teams that really stick out as being "unbeatable" by an Eastern team.
(i apologize up front for breaking up the big debate you have going w/Train)
from what i've read in the past couple weeks, the talk of the bucks guaranteeing Yi a specific amount of playing time was nothing more than rumor.
both larry harris (GM) and larry krystkowiak (coach) both said they didnt guarantee him X amount of playing time, but they did promise (not sure if anything is even really written into his contract) to provide him with every opportunity to learn all the aspects of the nba game. whether that be from playing time, practice time, watching film, working out...i dont know.
anyway, from the couple interview snippets i've caught in the past week or so, he's far from being the problem child many of us (myself included) were afraid he'd be after all the posturing by his agent, chinese team and whoever else over the mere thought of being drafted by milwaukee.
now, i'm not saying that will translate into the bucks winning 50 games or anything, but maybe it will help the chemistry on the team.
the bigger issue right now is charlie bell's sudden depression after the bucks matched miami's offer sheet and "forced" him to re-sign with us...
I like the Toronto Raptors at number 4, maybe even as high as number three overall in the EC. Author is spot on though about how everyone will overlook this team because of their lack of recognizable names, but they have the best bench in the league and a lot of young and talented players ( Bosh, TJ Ford, Andrea Bargnani). The Celtics will not win the EC, they have the three stars but no bench whatsover. Each player out of the big three is injury prone as well so if one of them goes down, it will be ugly. Go raps!
I agree with Train as well, you didn't give the Nets enough respect.
New Jersey is better than Toronto, Orlando, and a Cavs team minus Pavlovic & Sideshow Bob. I'd give a healthy Nets team running on all cylinders the nod over Detroit too.
Krstic is solid and Jason Kidd is, well, Jason Kidd.
Great post though. I'll be making my predictions this Friday.
There's absolutely no denying that fact. The # 1 seeded Pistons would have been a 4 seed in the West last year.
I would have given the advantage to every team in the West except the Lakers, against Cleveland.
The East has improved but the only three teams I think would have a chance at making the playoffs in the West, are the Celtics, Bulls, and Pistons and you know I don't think the Pistons are that great. Detroit will have a good regular season though, as they have for the past 5 seasons.
Who cares what the weak teams in the East would do against the weak teams in the West?
Again, Kidd has had enormous success IN THE EAST. It's an entirely different animal than being in the West. For example, the 04-05 Nets won 42 games (and were lucky to do so, their Pythagorean W-L was 36-46) while the 04-05 TWolves won 44 games. However, the Nets were in the East, so they went to the playoffs while the superior Wolves team stayed home. The average number of wins for an 8 seed in the East over the 6 years Kidd has been with the Nets is 40.3. That's a full 3.3 games lower than what the 8 seed in the West averaged over that span. The fact is that Kidd has had even less success in the playoffs against Western Conference teams than Garnett has.
BTW, do your homework. Kidd was injured and missed almost all of that series where the Suns upset the Spurs. It doesn't count as a playoff victory for you if you weren't on the floor for it.
"Great players find ways to get ahead." - Like getting traded to the East.
Who cares if the worst teams in the East could beat the worst teams in the West? Parity doesn't win titles, dominant teams do, and the West has a lot more of them than the East does.
Yes, in fact, I am telling you that the Pistons or Nets could not beat the Rockets, Nuggets, or Jazz in the Finals. The upper-echelon teams in the West are far and away better than the ones in the East.
cuz - that's interesting to hear. I still don't like the pick, I think they should've gone with Brewer instead, but who knows, time will tell. I really like that Bucks team and I think they've got a great shot at the playoffs after being devastated by injury last year. Should be fun to watch.
Chain - I'm just going to pretend that I didn't hear you call KG "injury prone" and move on.
Hoff - What it came down to for me was, "Would I be surprised if these guys missed the playoffs?" For the Magic, yes, I would be. For the Raptors, most definitely. For the Cavs, even without their holdouts, it's hard to see a LeBron led team missing the playoffs, and with the chance of them coming back... With the Nets, I don't think I would be very surprised at all. They have an older roster, they've had injury problems, Carter is always an enigma, and they don't have a great bench. Could they be very good if they're clicking? Absolutely, and if everything works out for them they could be the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference, but they could also hit trouble rather easily and end up missing the playoffs.
"11) Miami Heat - The star that drives your team is injury-prone and will be out to start the year. Your other star is way past his prime and always out of shape. Your big offseason acquisitions were Smush Parker and a guy who once shot at his own basket in an attempt to get a triple double. Ladies and gentlemen, your 2007-2008 Miami Heat!!!"
Hoffman: You and XPhoenix are missing my point here.
"There's absolutely no denying that fact. The # 1 seeded Pistons would have been a 4 seed in the West last year."
What does that mean? Nothing. That's by regular season record, right? Why does that matter? If half of the teams in your conference are jokes (like in the West), you're going to win more games. If most of the teams in your conference are competitive (like in the East), you're going to win some, lose some. Sure, the West had several teams win more than 50 games, but those teams also faced the likes of the Wolves, Blazers, Sonics, etc. several times.
I don't mean to say that the East has the best teams in the league. That's not the case. What I am saying is that it's a lopsided conference, with four or five elite teams on one end, two teams in the middle, and then utter garbage the rest of the way. The East might not have those elite teams on the same level as the elite teams out West, but they have many more middle-of-the-road competitive teams, and only a few garbage teams.
The AL East might have the two best teams in baseball, but they also have two of the worst in baseball against which the good teams pad their win totals. Meanwhile, the NL West might not have any great teams but it's competitive across the board. This is my point... and I think it's valid.
"Kidd was his usual self, earning All-NBA First Team honors for the second-straight season and finishing with 14.3 points, team-leading 7.2 rebounds and league-leading 10.1 assists. He made a remarkable comeback in the deciding Game 4 of the Suns’ First Round upset (3-1) of the defending champs San Antonio Spurs with nine points (4-5 FG), 10 rebounds and three steals in 31 minutes.
“The guy is unbelievable. I mean, I got a new-found respect for him tonight watching him play, more than I had before,” Hardaway said of his sidekick. “I've always respected his game and loved him as a person, but for him to come out there today after missing five weeks and having only had a little walk through yesterday, to come out there and play big minutes was huge for us.”
So to say Kidd had nothing to do with the Suns beating the Spurs is inaccurate. He was hurt and showed up to play in the eliminating game, which was in San Antonio, and could have easily led to a Game 5.
They then lost to the Lakers, who went on to win the title. In their one win against the Lakers, Kidd put up 22 points (8-13 shooting), 16 assists and 10 rebounds.
And by now, we should all know that the only reason why Kidd was shipped out of Phoenix is because he punched his wife in the face. If you know anything about Phoenix, you'd know it has the second highest Mormon population outside of Salt Lake City. It's an extremely conservative city that's all about God, and family, and doing the right thing, etc. At the time when Kidd hit his wife.......continued.
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 25th at 11:05 AM.
I agree with Train on the Nets. They can obviously contend in the east this year. Celtics are the only legitimate threat I can see against the Nets so far. Bulls are streaky, Pistons have a hard time replacing somebody for ben Wallace, Magic haven't proved anything yet, cleveland will make it to the playoff but lebron won't be able to carry them to finals this year. Nets might had not improved a lot over the summer but they added armstrong and all star Magloire which I think is a nice addition. Remember Jermaine might still be dealt to so Nets still have a shot at getting him if Jefferson is healthy. Even if they don't get Jermaine, Im putting my money on Nets winning atleast 50 games this season and definitely going deep into playoffs this year. We still have to see the chemistry between Garnett, Piece and Allen so I wouldn't declare them eastern conference champs just yet. The east have grown so much this summer that anybody can win and I would definitely put Nets up in the top 4 teams in the east if they are healthy through the whole year.
X- i still dont like the pick either. i like it a little more now that all the posturing is over and he is at least signed and appears happy, but yeah, i was hoping for brewer as well.
had they taken brewer, they wouldnt have needed or wanted (i hope) to bring desmond mason back again, and could have...at least from what i understand...taken care of the charlie bell situation alot sooner. i guess i understand his frustration over not even 1 offer the entire summer from the bucks or anyone else, then he finally gets a nice 5 year offer from miami, and the bucks jump on matching it. obviously they were just waiting to see what the market was, but they may have spent all that money for nothing. he appears uninterested in even being a part of the team (as in with the players and coaches, nevermind management) at this point....but still, at some point you just have to s*ck it up and play ball and get on with life. plenty of us are "working" at "jobs" for "companies" we dont like, and not making near the kind of money he is. besides, milwaukee was the only team to give him a shot in the nba after his big season over in europe, shouldnt that count for something?
Fans across the league were showing up to games holding signs that read "wife beater" and such. At the start of one home game, Kidd even grabbed the microphone and asked the fans for forgiveness. You think that was his idea? No way. Colangelo made him do that. That should tell you how bad of a public relations incident the whole Kidd punching his wife thing was. The Suns trading him had NOTHING to do with basketball. It was purely a public relations move.
Ironically, a few years later, Marbury was traded shortly after his drunken driving arrest was widely publicized. Again, this is a conservative city and people won't stand for that kind of stuff. The Suns want clean-cut guys, always have and always will.
Cuz... screw the draft pick situation. This is the NBA in 2007 where everything draft-related is a #### shoot. Would Brewer really have made a difference? A 6-foot-8 185-pound guy who can't shoot and can only slash. Think about that. A grossly-thin slasher. LOL. That has injury reserve written all over it. Talk to me about Brewer when he puts on 25 pounds. If this were 1995, Brewer would have been a late second-round pick. So would have most of these guys. Screw the draft.
The Bucks, to much surprise, have a great deal of talent on that team. I think how far they go depends mostly on Bogut's development and Villanueva's maturity. Both of these guys have tremendous talent. There's no reason why Charlie can't be on the same level as Al Jefferson. There's no reason why he can't be a force in the East. But he's out of control... he's dumb... he needs to gain polish. Maybe he will or maybe he's just trade fodder.
I like Desmond Mason as a man, but not as a player who gets more than 22 minutes per game off the bench. They have Simmons already. David Noel isn't a complete basketcase, neither is Awvee Storey.
I don't think this team was going to address much via the draft unless they got someone like Al Hortford. Who knows?
Good luck to your team. You have some talent, but I question the GM's decision-making. He should have let Bell go. Why keep a guy who wants to be elsewhere? Same thing happened to Ricky Davis when he was in Cleveland... they matched the T-Wolves offer sheet. It was a disaster. Bell ain't no Davis, but still....only bad can c
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 25th at 11:26 AM.
Train - Why does it matter why Kidd got traded, was that ever part of the discussion?
You can't give Kidd credit for a win in a playoff series if he only plays one game.
Nobody is denying that there are a lot more mediocre teams in the East. The point is that it doesn't matter. To succeed in the East playoffs, you merely have to be decent, to compete in the West playoffs, you have to be elite. When you get past Chicago and Boston, nobody in the East has near the talent of the top 6 teams in the West.
xPhoenix87 I don't think its right to compare last year's Nets to west teams such as Jazz and Rockets. New Jersey had 2 injuries to deal with last year and those two players were in the starting lineup so its not really fair to compare a team without its two starters against teams without any injuries. This year, I think the full strengthened Nets can definitely beat Jazz, Nuggets and possibly Rockets. The 05-06 season Nets won 49 games without their starter Jefferson and now that all the players are back in the lineup, Nets can definitely put up a fight. You seem to give less credit to the Nets than they actually deserve. Maybe you're one of those from the west who never thought Pistons could upset the Lakers or Miami could beat the Mavs...trust me, its basketball and anything can happen. And I don't think Kidd coming to east has anything to do with him becoming a superstar, if he was traded to Lakers last year, you will definitely see Lakers improve as the top 4-5 teams in the west.
If Kidd went to the Lakers last season, forget it... they would have at least gotten to the second round.
Phoenix... I watch the Nets nightly. Do you know they lost three games in a row last season on buzzer-beaters? Do you know they played the bulk of last season with Mikki Moore, Antoine Wright and Bostjan Nachbar getting major minutes (because of injuries)? The Nets could have easily won 60 games last season if they were healthy.
And as for the whole, they can't beat the big teams out West, that's all hogwash.
They won their two meetings against the Jazz. They lost two games to the Suns, both of which were decided in the final minute (one of them a double-OT game). They lost to the Lakers by 4 points, and 6 points, in two games decided in the final minute. They beat Denver, and then lost to them once by 4 points in a game decided in the final minute. Only the Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs beat the Nets without a struggle (one game each). So they competed.
The year before last, the Nets were 8-8 against Western Conference playoff teams (Mavericks, Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Nuggets and Kings)
So c'mon. This idea you have in your head about a good Eastern Conference team being unable to compete against an elite Western Conference team is completely untrue. Yeah, maybe the best team in the West is better than the best team in the East, and would win in a playoff series, but that doesn't mean last year's Cavs couldn't have beaten the Jazz or Rockets, etc. Or the Nets couldn't have beaten the Lakers, etc. It's a game of matchups.
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on October 25th at 1:01 PM.
Knicks 12? Is this guy crazy? Everybody and their grandmother sees them at no less than 6, Personally I'm thinkin 4. But for the injuries at the end of the season last year they had a ligitimate shot at six(without Zach Randolph).
I never though I'd say this but you're starting to sound like an Eastern Conference homer. Lol.
It's clear as night and day that the East is WEAK.
Cleveland, last year's "Eastern Conference champion", wouldn't have defeated SEVEN OF THE WEST'S EIGHT PLAYOFF TEAMS.
The Cavs were mediocre at best. The Pistons are weak mentally and ARE NOT a good team defensively (they let ONE PLAYER walk all over them). The Pistons are just like the Mavs, talented but lack the killer instinct necessary to win a title.
Hey Robert... I was talking more so about the players in Kevin Garnett's prime time. Yeah, Jordan was in the league at the beginning of KG's career, but near the end of his line. I'm talking more so about the players who were in their prime, like KG, from 1998 onward.
Obviously Jordan and Ewing, and many many others are some of the best players. Duh.
Hoffman... I was beginning to think the same thing about you and Phoenix, that you guys were West Coast homers.
I'm not saying the East is better than the West... just that it's not as night-and-day worse than popular opinion thinks.
After the Suns and Spurs, I think every team in the West could lose to any team from the East in a seven-game series. I really believe that. As good as I think the Rockets and Nuggets CAN be, and SHOULD be, I think they're still riddled with so many flaws.
C'mon... this isn't anything crazy. TWO OF THE LAST FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS WERE WON BY EASTERN CONFERENCE TEAMS.
The 2004 Pistons had the sixth-best record in the league. Four teams out West had better records.
The 2006 Heat had the fifth-best record in the league. Three teams out West had better records.
It's about match-ups. The Spurs may have manhandled the Cavs last year, but what if the Cavs had played the Mavericks or Suns instead? It might have been a different series.
If you want to say it's a little easier for an East team to reach the Finals than the West, sure, I'll agree with you on that. But the fact of the matter is a good team is just that, a good team, and you can't discredit one team because it had fewer regular season wins than another. The Mavs won 67 games last year and look what happened.
I watched them closely last year, and almost every game went down to the wire, and then Dirk would pull it out. I kept thinking, "a team that has such difficulty putting teams away is going to have trouble against a hungrier team."................
SEVEN OF THE LAST 9 NBA CHAMPIONS HAVE COME FROM THE WEST.
What you say is true, matchups are everything.
I wouldn't have given the Miami Heat a prayer in hell at beating the Spurs in 2006. Dallas matches up better with last year's Spurs than they did the Warriors, Heat, or even the Cavaliers.
Why? Because they were a team that would LET one player walk all over them.
Forget the Spurs, Mavs, or Suns, I think Utah would have STOMPED every team in the East last year.
I will give credit to the Detroit Pistons for their 2004 title. They peaked at exactly the right time against the Lakers. They also benefited from Karl Malone's injury.
Plain and simple, the Miami Heat got lucky. Otherwise, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because the ratio would be an even more ridiculous 8/9 instead of 7/9.
You know what that tells me? That tells me that you're heavily biased.
"Do you know they lost three games in a row last season on buzzer-beaters?"
Do you know that the Nets actually won 2 more games than their expected record? That means they actually won MORE close games than the average team is expected to win.
"And as for the whole, they can't beat the big teams out West, that's all hogwash."
You listed a 3-8 record against Western playoff teams and I'm supposed to be impressed?
Look, we're not just talking about "could they beat them in a playoff series", we're talking about "could they beat them in the Finals". The question with teams like Denver and Houston is if they can stay healthy and if their chemistry works. If Houston or Denver has made it to the Finals, that means they've gone through the Spurs or Suns, and that means they're healthy and playing well, or they wouldn't have gotten there in the first place. The Pistons or Nets aren't going to beat a healthy Nuggets or Rockets team, the talent differential is just too big.
I'm not a West Coast homer, I'm a realist. The talent in the top 6 Western teams is CLEARLY far superior to the top teams in the East.
hear - "Knicks 12? Is this guy crazy? Everybody and their grandmother sees them at no less than 6"
Gee, that's funny, because all these people seem to disagree with you. Isiah Thomas has, again, demonstrated that he has absolutely no grasp on how to build a team.
Last edited by xphoenix87 on October 25th at 2:58 PM.
Regardless of the talent level on each team, one of the main reasons that the West continues to dominate the East is because there are more established and better coaches that are leading the West contenders (Sloan, Karl, Adelman, Jackson, Pops)than there are in the East (Saunders, Skiles, Mike Brown, Lawrence Frank, Isiah Thomas) save for Riley. Just by comparing the two conferences, the East is outclassed.
Coaching is the huge X-factor here, when the talent level on both conferences is pretty much even.
Why did Miami win in 2006? First of all, if San Antonio had beaten Dallas, then the Spurs would have had a tremendous advantage considering they would not have blown a 2-0 series lead. Secondly, the experience of Pat Riley, his assistants, Shaq, Zo, GP, and 'Toine all paid huge dividends in the unraveling of the Mavs. If my memory serves me correctly, Payton and Walker made some huge clutch shots during the series and Zo played like the Zo of old, all this happening while Dallas rookie coach Avery Johnson was still trying to figure out what hit him and their leader Dirk was still trying to figure out how the heck he choked in Miami.
Why did Detroit win in 2004? Because not only did they peak at the right time and not only was Larry Brown able to temper Sheed, but the heavily favored Lakers were dysfunctional beyond the control of Phil Jackson and Karl Malone was at 30% effectiveness. The reason wasn't Larry Brown because the Lakers trounced Brown's 76ers just a couple years earlier.
In sum, the only title that was probably well-deserved was the Pistons'. Othe
Last edited by J-DIZZLE on October 25th at 4:09 PM.
train - absolutely right on the spot with about 95% WHAT YOU SAYING. good comparisons, good knowledge of the game. I am a coach. IT IS ABOUT MATCHUPS. (all things squared) Given, teams WILL get hurt, players WILL be traded(come Febr.) .It is also about THE ORGANIZATION you are a part of (trainers, coaches, owners, partners..etc). It is my personal belief that P. Riley is top 2-3 coaches in the entire NBA history. THAT alone is an "instant credit". Now, it is going to interesting to watch them(Heat), but they're not as bad as most people think. And of course, it is a little "ridiculous" to think they are gonna be out of playoffs; as THEN (and I maintain this point always) it is "another" season...hence maturity, experience - from both players and staff --M A T C H U P S.
dizzle, great comment, too ! It is nice to read stuff like this. Absent from bashing other teams or players. It tells me there are great fans/lovers of this sport.
On a more personal note, Detroit and Nets WILL be a factor. And, the East is also not as bad either, as a Conference in total.
It's unfortunate that you dissed the Bobcats in that way. It shows you are just stereo typing and not doing an educated analysis (You made some other assonide comments)
Phoenix... I'm going to get you Blog of the Day or Week -- whatever it's called.
I think we're sidestepping arguments here... I'm talking about X, and you're talking about Y, I start talking about Y and then you go to Z. Then I bring up A, etc.
I agree with you that a healthy Nuggets or Rockets team can beat whatever team comes out of the East.
But it's still a game of match-ups. It bugs me that you guys speak as if ONLY a Western team can win the championship. That's just ignorant. I don't care how good you think the West is, and how bad you think the East is... it's still a game of match-ups.
The Suns struggled mightily against the Nets last season. Yes, they did win their two meetings, but it wasn't easy. I raise that point to show that just because the Suns have a good record and they give the Spurs a good match, it doesn't necessarily mean they won't get killed by the Jazz or Pistons or whomever.
And I'm not biased towards the Nets. I'm just INFORMED about the Nets. I watch A LOT of basketball (I've bought the NBA League Pass the past four seasons). I'm not on a college campus in North Carolina or wherever studying, drinking, etc. I barely watched TV when I was in college. I watch A LOT of games, man. Enough to the point I can speak about any team with any fan and they'll think I'm a fan of their team.
I don't read basketball magazines, or go to ESPN.com to see what "the experts" (read: The idiots) say. I WATCH THE GAMES.
Bobcats have some talent. I'm not crazy about J-Rich and Gerald Wallace playing together, and it truly sucks Sean May went down (if he stays healthy, he will be an All-Star one day), but this team has balance.
When you have guys who can shoot (Matt Carroll, Richardson, Herrmann), and defend (Okafor, Herrmann, Wallace) anything is possible. I think this team with a healthy May and Morrison would have made the playoffs. Now, I don't see it. But they will compete.
I believe the Nets to be an X-factor. IF (that's a big IF) they stay healthy for a full year, they could win the East. However, they are on the old and frail side. They could have the best record in the East or they could miss the playoffs entirely which is why I think the train is a little ironic in being critical of the Celtics injury prone players. Either way the East is improving, but even if the Nets won the East, they wouldn't compete in the Finals with the likes of the Spurs, Suns, Mavs or Jazz.
e incompetent Doc Rivers at coach, but really, you can count the good NBA coaches on one hand, and I'm pretty sure a team with The Truth, Jesus Shuttlesworth, and The Big Ticket can basically coach itself.
y really seemed to lack the attitude and intensity that they built their run on. Say what you want about him, but Wallace was the heart and soul of that team, and they clearly missed him. If Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson come out like gangbusters and really play well, then this team can be very good, but I think Pistons fans are expecting too much out of the young guys, especially Johnson.
from the improvement I'm expecting from Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson. Howard is going to be a beast this year, probably the best center in the East, and Nelson has looked very sharp in the preseason.
ots to fill a highlight reel. 
on, but what are they going to do when Okafor goes down with injury for 15-20 games, as he will inevitably do. 
s NBA-ready as any point guard you'll see coming out of college, and he has, as they say, huge 
