Hi all, this is the NBA Legends Competition. It started with a draft of all former and current NBA players, and now we've moved onto deciding which of the assembled teams is the best. If you've missed the last few posts on this, you might want to check out this one and this one. Enjoy.
WE HAVE A WINNER!
Congratulations to AK47spiderman for winning the first game of the NBA Legends competition by a score of 6 to 1.
Voting for this matchup is now closed.
dehbashi
Ok here it goes.
Lights Out
Starting Lineup Paul Arizin-SF Tim Duncan- PF Nate Thurmond - C George Gervin - SG Jason Kidd- PG
Bench:: Jerry Lucas Clyde Drexler
Reasons my team is better: As
Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan as good passers, they can control the flow of
the game offensively. To post, Duncan and Drexler, which has been shown
in the end of his career, can do. Nate will do screens. With Duncan
and Nate be close-range, Paul, Clyde and George being mid-range and
Jason and Jerry be long range this will be tough to beat offensively.
Even though Kidd has a 42% FG he has a decent 33% 3PT. Jerry being the
king of long range shots from 25 feet still being in 50% will hit
threes like no tomorrow. This team can score at least 135-140 a game.
As long as the team makes sure to not shoot the ball near Mutumbo the
ball won't be blocked. Mikan will have trouble adjusting since he won't
be able to goal tend. From long range, play keep away from Havlicek and
the team should be fine scoring from outside.
Defensively,
Duncan and Nate will protect the inside preventing scoring and crashing
the boards using zone. Their main job will be to stop Dr. J, all the
way even if his body is out of bounds until the refs blow the whiste,
Mikan and Pettit. The rest will go man to man. Arizin will prevent mid
range jumpers knowing how to stop jumpers since he created it. George
and Clyde will prevent anyone from long range from scoring, and one
will help out occasionally with Kidd who will guard Havlicek. Lucas
will have the job to guard Robertson because they played together
before and with the way that Oscar not liking him may lose his cool.
Lucas with his calm demeanor and knowing the weakness of every player,
especially since he has played with Oscar, will lock him down. The only
time Lucas will not guard Oscar is when Nate is getting a breather so
he would be center. If the interior has trouble rebounding Kidd and
Lucas can help. Also, with Duncan, Kidd, Thurmond, and Lucas this makes
the perfect defense that will slow down what anyone can throw at me.
Make sure Barkley is boxed out and can't go inside to force him to do
jumpers. The defense will try to force out Mutombo to see whether he
can hit from downtown.
2nd will be Drexler as PG, Lucas as PF. In the third quarter to give a little breather, the lineup will be Arizin, Duncan, Lucas as C, Clyde as SG, and Kidd. 4th to finish it off: Thurmond: SF Duncan: PF Lucas: C Gervin: SG Kidd: PG
In
general, Lucas is the man of long range and awesome defender that will
use the oppenent's habits against them without getting into foul
trouble., Duncan greatest PF of all time, Kidd most versatile PG since
O and Magic.
Weakness of other team: Mutombo: ? in 3pt range since he has never attempted a shot from there. Barkley: Long range shooter, Ok defender Mikan
for a 6-10 Center has a horrible 40% shooting especially for someone
who could jump to goal tend. Has good possibility of fouling out if not
careful averaging 4.3 Personal fouls a game. Pettit: Tends to take to many shots. Erving:
Shown had a little struggling NBA since his production dropped from
ABA. Had tendency at times to turnover the ball a little too much in
his career. Robertson: D may have been good in the beginning but
started deteriorating big time from 26. Lucas knowing him inside and
out will be trouble some.
This is what I see.
AK47spiderman
“Heroes of the Hardwood” (will
fix poster tonight) is a seven-man roster of basketball legends
drafted by AK47spiderman for xphoenix87’s NBA Legends
Tournament.
The NBA Legends Tournament is an 8-team single elimination tournament
showcasing some of the best players in basketball history. Because
these matches showcase players from different eras coming
together, a specific date/version of each player will be
defined.
To complete the look and feel of a true team of
legends, I have representation from all 7
decades
of the NBA.
My roster showcases 5 Regular Season MVPs, a
Finals MVP, and a Defensive Player of the
Year for their respective years.
1964 - Oscar Robertson -
Point
Guard - 6'5"
- NBA Most Valuable Player - NBA
All-Star - NBA First Team
1974 - John Havlicek
- Shooting Guard - 6'5"
- NBA
Finals
Most Valuable Player - NBA All-Star - NBA First Team
1981 - Julius Erving - Small
Forward - 6'7"
- NBA Most Valuable Player -
NBA
All-Star - NBA First Team
1956 - Bob Pettit - Power
Forward -
6'9"
- NBA Most Valuable Player - NBA All-Star Most
Valuable Player - NBA First Team - NBA Scoring King & NBA
Rebounding King
1949 - George Mikan - Center -
6'11"
- BAA Most Valuable Player - BAA Finals Most
Valuable Player - BAA First Team - BAA Scoring King
1993 - Charles Barkley
- Reserve Forward - 6'6"
-
NBA Most Valuable Player - NBA All-Star - NBA First Team
2001 - Dikembe Mutombo
- Reserve Center - 7'2"
-
Defensive Player of the Year - NBA All-Star - NBA Defensive First
Team - NBA Rebounding King
To my first
round opponent dehbashi, to the handsome judges, and to all the
spectators:
I look forward to debating in the comments below, and throwing around
statistics and scenarios on why my team is superior. That is if you
can't tell already just by looking at my roster.
dehashi, great read breakdown. I'll try to be around today (in between work) to respond to questions / debates / whatever.
As a quick note, I think size, overall skill, rebounding, and lack of championship experience will the ultimate undoing to your team.
I would like to respond to some of the weaknesses you listed for my team.
"Mutombo: ? in 3pt range since he has never attempted a shot from there."
Response: Why would my 7'2" center and defensive player of the year shoot three pointers?
"Erving: Shown had a little struggling NBA since his production dropped from ABA. Had tendency at times to turnover the ball a little too much in his career."
Response: After his career in the ABA, Doctor J was the NBA's regular season MVP in 1981. He also had an NBA All-Star MVP before and after the '81 season.
Props on noting that Lucas would know Robertson's game from them being teammates together, however Big O is running my point, and with Lucas being a center, well that isn't even a head to head matchup.
I'm also at work so I'll have trouble responding.
Rebounding: Only person of concern should be Gervin and maybe Drexler. Arizin can pull in 8 and others can easily do double digits. Heck Lucas can pull down 20 easily and has pull down 40 before before.
Ok with Mutombo. I trying to do everything I can to get me an upper hand.
Erving: Ok the AS MVP in 76-77 is he did deserve it but his 82-83 is questionable. Yeah yeah he was 11-19 with 25 points but six rebounds?
Also I don't know if anyone will agree with me on this but the All Star Game numbers are inflated. I mean they try to put a show usually and not play D.
True Lucas played center in college, but until the end of his NBA career he actually played forward so that wouldn't be necessary for him to be center.
Arizin: 6'4
Drexler 6'7
Duncan 7'0
Gervin 6'7
Lucas 6'8
Kidd 6'4
Thurmond 6'11
Not much of a difference if you ask me though.
Kidd with his size has shown to be the leading rebounder of his team.
Also size doesn't matter. Go ask Dallas how they did against Golden State this year. Or also how ask Mugsy Bogus on how he blocked Patrick Ewing's shot when he is at least a foot shorter than him.
you've also got to remember that rebound stats were hugely inflated in the early NBA due to all the missed shots. When you look at percentage of boards pulled in, Mutumbo's 14 RPG probably compares very favorably to a 20 RPG season from Pettit or Lucas.
I'm a big fan of the picture too. Looks like Mikan is about to break some ankles with that famed crossover of his, and Mutumbo appears to be teaching Hondo all about the finger wag. Not sure if anyone but Deke could ever really pull off the finger wag.
Alright, I've got to take a time-out here to ask phoenix a question, as my arguement is due tomorrow morning. Obviously, these two are polar opposites. The first walks through the matchups and addresses all aspects of the game that the author finds relevant. The second is jazzed up with a poster (very nice) and glorifies all the players with their stats and awards, but offers no arguement whatsoever, rather stating that the author will debate the teams in the comment section. If asked before, I would have said we were looking for pieces like the first and not the second, debating the game in the arguement and leaving comments to the observers. But now I'm not certain. Help me out here, phoenix.
you're allowed to do your write up however you want. I think you should at least give some mention of how your team fits together and how they would win as opposed to it just being individual pieces with stats and accolades, but there should probably also be mention of each individual player's stats so that people know what they're dealing with. I'm not requiring anything though, that's just a suggestion.
genez13 - I plan on doing some analysis in my comments but I am pressed for time today at work. I’ll be around this evening after work to write more. I’d say do whatever you can to impress the judges. Honestly, I’m holding back a bit so I don’t show all of my cards in the first round.
genez...to me you have to look at match-ups and team chemistry. Stats can be misleading because most of these guys never played against each other or in the same era. Personally I would have like the game better if current NBA players were excluded and other rules detailed like, is there a shot clock, 3 to make 2 on freethrows, are zones allowed. Maybe these things were covered and I didn't see them. I would have also like to have had coaches drafted so we can have an idea of the offensive attitudes that would be used.
OK...I'll shut up now.
well, ricko did claim auerbach, but I think that's what turned us off to the idea. And it wouldn't be fair to the guy who got PJ Carlissimo, since he would be killed by half-time.
One more thing to spidey. You talked about skills. Are you talking about fancy skills? That's fine but it's all about the fundementals. Doing something fancy will give you a less chance of success then something simple.
Wow, what a great game this would have been. I really like the backcourt matchups. You have the 2 most versatile point guards of alltime (besides Magic) going head to head in J-Kidd and the Big O. Both play D, rack up dimes, and board the ball. I give it to the Big O. I like Dehbashi's Ice Man over John Havlicek, plus hes got Clyde of the bench. Backcourt: Advantage Dehbashi. Now for the frontcourt. Thurmond and Mutombo are rebounding freaks, while Mikan and Timmy are no slouches either. Timmy and Mikan matchup great, and they both bring the championship mentality. Sir Charles, Bob Pettit, and Dr. J have to much offensive firepower. Frontcourt: Advantage AK47
Overall, AK47's name speaks for itself. His team has too much offensive firepower for Dehbashi to handle. I give my official vote to AK47. Box Score says 151-144
Last edited by Wolves4Life on July 20th at 2:49 PM.
Alright, here's how I feel about this game right now.
Lowest scoring matchup of the first round. Both teams have great interior defense and rim protectors, and neither team has particularly exceptional perimeter shooting, with Gervin being the best shooter on the floor. Spidey's team seems almost built to run the break, with Oscar, Dr. J. and Barkley, but it lacks the rebounder/outlet type that typically keys that sort of break. Mutumbo is a great rebounder, but I watched him for years and I don't think I've ever seen him throw an outlet pass :P. Still, probably a pretty effective fast breaking team.
Honestly, neither team has done a lot to persuade me that they would be the winner. I'll hold my vote pending more debate.
Interesting. But I'm not voting for two reasons. First, since I'm involved in the tourney, I want to remain impartial. Secondly, my vote might give away who my money's on. Which reminds, I'll volunteer to officiate, if need be.
hey guys, gotta ejt soon but let me throw this out there...
my 20 championships to deh's 6
my 10 mvp selections to deh's 2
and my 11 all-star mvps to deh's 4
my guys have proven throught the history of the nba that they can play in the big games... 20 champions and all of those all-star mvp awards, et alone 10 regular season mvp awards
some of the spectators maybe even voters might not know much about mikan and pettit's games, to be honest i didn't know a whole lot before researching all these players before the draft.
mikan is a 7 time champion, he won two mvps, an all-star mvp, 8 first teams, and 4 allstar selections (he would have had more but they were the first 4 all-star games ever played)
pettit is an 11-time allstar with an amazing 4-allstar mvps, he really knew how to raise his level up play aginst the best. he won 2 regular season mvps, a couple scoring and rebounding titles, an nba title, and 10 all-nba first team selections
they were truely the most dominate players in the late 40's through early 60's
Last edited by AK47spiderman on July 20th at 4:52 PM.
When I look at this matchup, I want to determine who the weapons are and how they will be stopped.
Dehbashi
Tim Duncan is deadly with his back to the basket. I believe that he'd be able to juke and have his way with Deke and Mikan. I think it would be best to play Barkley on Duncan. With Barkley's quikness and physical play, he could get into Duncan's head (Rodman-style) and cause him to make bad decisions.
Thurmond was a skilled passer and would post up Havlicek every time down the floor. He could
distribute from the post, or murder Hondo with bank shots when given the green light. Any attempt at a double=team would free up Duncan or Gervin. But if Thurmond is not careful with the ball, Hondo will use his craftiness to create turnovers. Thurmond is the X-factor for this team.
Lucas is a rebounding fiend with a long-range jumper. I believe taht he will have met his
match in CHarles Barkley. This would be the best matchup of the night as we watch two HOFers with very similar styles. This team would gain an advantage with both Duncan and Lucas on the floor in the front-court.
I believe that Kidd would have a hard time creating the offense against Robertson. It's like that Jordan ad where he plays himself as rookie. Robertson would know everything that Kidd was thinking. Dehbashi's backup PG is Drexler. Robertson would pick him apart even easier.
With no PG, the ball is left in Gervin's hands. If he's hot, they win, if not, they lose. Good luck getting to the hoop with Mutombo/Mikan in the middle.
[cont in next comment]
Last edited by Mr_Showtime on July 20th at 11:30 PM.
AK47Spiderman
With no offesne from Mutombo and Mikan, Pettit becomes the only low post threat. He could get physical with Duncan, but I ultimately believe that he would be outmatched. Robertson would need his A-game against Kidd, as Kidd would leave him no room for error. Robertson wouldn't get the looks he's accustomed to and would become a passer for this contest.
Havlicek would provide a spark for this team. For every point he gives up defensively, he will gain it back by drawing Thurmond away from the basket where he's comfortable. Havlicek would channel his inner-Reggie Miller and run through screens to lose the slower Thrumond to find open shots.
Barkely's quickness will stun Duncan. With Barkley at the 4, he will use his toughness and quickness to tire and frustrated Duncan. Duncan will get the best of this matchup defensively, but will be left scratching his head as he continuosly loses rebounds to a 6'4" fat guy that is incorrectly listed by the NBA as 6'6".
Erving would most likely be guarded by Drexler. Clyde would keep the Good Doctor at bay in the perimeter, but once J begins to post up Drexler, he will have the advantage. Any attempts by Thurmond, Duncan, or Lucas to help out would just leave for quick baskets by Mutumbo, Mikan, and Barkley, or shots for Hondo. If they run the break (as they are designed to do), Erving has no problem going coast-to-coast and the smaller Drexler would have a hard time stopping him.
Last edited by Mr_Showtime on July 20th at 11:34 PM.
Dehbashi - you picked a great team. If you had gone against another team in the this tourney, you'd probably be in the 2nd round. At least you didn't have Bruce Bowen.
1974 - John Havlicek
- Shooting Guard - 6'5"
1981 - Julius Erving - Small
Forward - 6'7"
1956 - Bob Pettit - Power
Forward -
6'9"
1949 - George Mikan - Center -
6'11"
1993 - Charles Barkley
- Reserve Forward - 6'6" 
2001 - Dikembe Mutombo
- Reserve Center - 7'2"
