We live in a wonderful country. The United States of America has one of the highest standards of living and the best health care in the world. (Stick with me, this has relevance in sports, or at least on this Fox sports site.) Contrary to what Michael Moore would have you believe, health care in this country is by far the best of anywhere I have traveled and I have been on four continents. While there are problems in health care, I blame the insurance companies for most of them. (I haven't watched Sicko, but from what I have read Moore shows some of the shady practices of health insurance companies.) My personal opinion is that instead of health care reform, we need insurance reform.
Today as I have read blog after blog, I noticed in one of them, SleeplessinSeattle's, that the Rev made a comment about Ichiro’s lack of using the English language. It was quickly pointed out that Ichiro speaks English fluently but that he has chosen to use an interpreter to make sure his words are not twisted by the media. I have no problem with Ichiro or most other foreigners that I have met because my wife is one. The funny thing is that in many countries overseas they require students to learn English while in this country where English is supposed to be the national language we do everything we can to accommodate those who do not speak it.
Last year, I had two Korean students who lived with me. At spring break we went down to the CA DMV and they took the written driving test. Now both of these girls speak English, but they were allowed to take the test in Korean. It blows my mind. How many different languages does the DMV have to print its tests in to help out foreigners? I’m not sure if every state does this, but CA does.
Then today as I am reading Fox Sports and I notice under each of the major headings where the stories are a button that is labled “en Espanol.” I never noticed it before, but that is because the face of this internet site changes on a regular basis. When you click that button you are taken to another page that is written all in Spanish. I understand that Fox is trying to garner a larger viewing audience, but it still bothers me. Maybe I just live to close to Mexico and the constant struggle we have with illegal aliens has me biased. It is a real issue here in southern California where our tax dollars go to help support illegals in schools, hospitals, and even in housing. No matter what the reason, I am offended and I plan on writing Fox. Why not cater to the Germans, the French, or the Asians. We can not become all things to all people. I understand that we have a President who butchers the English language, but that is no excuse to embrace multilingualism. Take a look on your Fox site, and if it bothers you write Fox too.
I know, let's construct a fence along the southern border of the blog then we can.......
I don't like going to the grocery store and most of the products are in English and Spanish. Or when I have to call my crappy cell phone provider and they ask me to press one for English then two for bla bla bla.
If you come into this country you need to know English. If I go to Russia I need to know Russian. And so on and so forth.
Steve Martin once said "I'm all for letting foreigners into the country as long as they are able to speak our native language, Apache.
Agree, the government forms are in alot of languages, but while I speak German very well, i don't have technically knowledge, as in what the german word for dependent is. I guess what I am trying to say is that some folks speak English well, but because the government tax forms are hard for someone who speaks fluently in English to understand, it might be better if the use those multi-language forms. At least they can't use the excuse, "I didn't understand" when they didn't file.
As far as Fox, I was under the impression this was a global blog. Fox covers sports all over the world, so I think they want their web site to reach globally as well. ESPN is global, and Fox needs to keep up with the world of sports, not just American.
I understand your frustration living in cali...I get sensitive about it too hun. :)
I just had lunch when i saw Michael Moore's picture in ur blog...I just lost it. Sorry, I think he's a clown.
Socal, I caught your teaser on Lisa's post....sucked me right in. I saw the 'en enspanol' in my subconscious mind, but somehow missed it. Probable due to the fact that the phrase is so #### ever present in today's society.
The guys who work with/for me actually took the time to take English classes....what a novel idea.
Miracle, Lisa, Smoke, if you moved to Germany or Russia or even Mexico, do you think they would have all their forms n English for us? I don't think so.
Lisa, go to the link I put on Moore's name and read all about him. I think you will find it amusing to say the least or at least confirm your thoughts about him.
As for Fox being global, then why only have en Espanol, what about having a button for sprek e deutsch, or however it is written.
Last edited by socalsportsfan on July 11th at 3:11 PM.
I know it #### me off as well. I went overseas plenty of time. I went to Germany as a kid and yes they don't have everything in English like they have Spanish here. Like Socal said, why only Spanish?
As long as English is there, it doesn't really bother me. I can understand where you're coming from, and where others are coming from when they say English should be the official language. One thing that bothers me more is when I go into a store and the person assisting me doesn't speak fluent English. I live in South Florida and that can really be a problem at times.
As for Michael Moore, I think it's pretty clear that website is biased against him. I'm not a fan of Michael Moore by any stretch of the imagination. But, I will say this. Agree or disagree with Sicko, but the movie is getting people to think about an important issue. This is an important issue, and we don't have the best health care in the world. The U.N. ranks us 37th. We can do much better than that. This movie may or may not have all the facts straight. It certainly doesn't present both sides of the issue. But, it gets people thinking and talking, which is the first step of making changes.
jgrace, I understand your position. I lived in FL for 18 years, one in Miami.
As for Moore, I agree that site bashes him, but I also think he leaves out important things in his movies and definitely slants them the way he is biased. He may be in trouble for shooting part of that film in Cuba, staging fake things from 911.
As for our health care system, I beg to differ. In all of the major countries I have been in, we have the best health care when you are sick. Our insurance is pricey, but the care is great. I have relatives in UK with free healthcare, and they all go to private docs and pay out of pocket. I have another sis in law in NZ, and they complain all the time. I also have in laws in Greece, South Africa, and Canada. All have come to America for surgery when they visit us. That speaks volumes. UN is so slanted, I disregard most of what they put out. You don't have to believe me on any of this, but I know from first hand accounts its true. Name one country with better healthcare that is not a tiny country like Monaco.
I don't discount what you say. But, here's where I differ. I don't know any of the people you speak of. I don't know their financial situations either. I'm guessing that, if they can afford to spend time and money coming here for medical procedures, they're fairly well-off. But, there are millions of people in this country with no health insurance, working average to low-paying jobs. What do they do when they get sick or injured and can't afford the huge medical bills? I went to the hospital a while back for 5 stitches. If I wouldn't have had health insurance, it would've cost me about $700, for 5 stitches. Serious operations and procedures can get quite pricey. There are millions of people who avoid the doctor because they can't afford to pay for it. The system's good for the people who have insurance. But, many people are slipping through the cracks.
When I say our health care's not the best, I'm thinking of the people who don't have health insurance.
Jgrace, let me tell you a story about our health care system. I have a brother in law who is not a citizen and does not have health insurance. He lived in Pensacola Fl with us. His son got sick with ITP and had to be hospitalized for a week. His bills were in the 10's of thousands of dollars. He told them he didn't have insurance and they still treated his son. When he left the hospital, they had him sign a form, and they forgave his entire debt.
Now let me tell you about San Diego. The hospitals are full of illegals without health insurance, and they get treatment. Who is paying for it and how come they can get treatment when all these thousands of Americans can't? Hospitals do not turn people away. My brother is an emergency room doctor, and they treat everyone.
sls, I know Ichiro's manager personally. He is a great guy and if he chooses to speak in Japanese, I have no problem with it. He is the face of Japan over hear. He is their hero. If he goes out to a rest., he orders in English.
The problem with the healthcare industry is two-pronged: the pharmaceutical companies want to push their product, and the insurance companies want to turn a profit.
I work at State Farm, working with claims for automobiles. We are instructed to look for loopholes where we don't have to send out any money for car rentals, paying for hospital bills, and the like. And that's the only way health insurance companies make money: by denying people.
As for the pharmaceutical companies, the only reason marijuana is illegal is because the pharmaceutical companies view it as competition. Marijuana cures a vast array of ailments, and if marijuana was legal, people would have no need to buy the many pills the pharmaceutical companies peddle -- one for each ailment. They won't want a cure-all/panacea -- they want to poison you, then cure you bit-by-bit.
As for languages, what is so hard about respecting other people's cultures?
Multilingualism is working out rather nicely for Canada, is it not?
This country, slowly but surely, is turning from an open house to a gated community. The pilgrims fled England to escape religious persecution. This country was supposed to welcome people of all backgrounds.
Now, we're intolerant of atheists, Muslims, homosexuals, Mexicans, and many more.
Ultra, I agree that the insurance industry needs a huge overhaul. I had an accident and State Farm tried to shaft me. In the end, my attorney came through for me, but there was no reason to have to go to the lengths I did to get my claim covered. They would have save a lot of money had they settled with me.
Pharms, I am not as anti them as you are, but they are in a business to make money.
Tolerant of other nationalities, of course we are. We have a president pushing to give amnesty to 14 million illegals, give or take a million. All I am saying is why don't we need to accomodate so many nationalities. Canada has two, French Canada from Toronto Eastward, and English speaking Canada everywhere else.
Last edited by socalsportsfan on July 11th at 7:56 PM.
As a whole, I do think this nation is tolerant of atheists, homosexuals, and adulterers. If you read on MSNBC yesterday, Iran stoned a man for adultery. Nothing like that happens in the US. People have opinions of athiests and are free to voice them in the USA, but we are tolerant. I think you feel like we are not tolerant because people speak their mind and many don't like athiests or homosexuals, but in other countries, they just persecute you if you don't believe as the state. My friends in China are monitored by the government because they are Christians, and they just teach school over there. They are not missionaries or anything. Middle East is tough on homosexuals.
As for accomodating, how far do you go? How many DMV languages are needed? WHen does it stop?
As a whole, I do think this nation is tolerant of atheists, BLEEP sexuals, and adulterers. If you read on MSNBC yesterday, Iran stoned a man for adultery. Nothing like that happens in the US.
We're tolerant in comparison to Iran. But that doesn't mean we actually are tolerant.
Tolerate: to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.
Tolerate: to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.
Well I think we are extremely tolerant. I don't know of any state that does not allow the existence, presence, practice without prohibition. #### marriage is illegal, but no one is stopped from living together, shopping, worshipping even for Wiccans. It is a free country. Insurance benefits are about the only thing that does not transfer to all people.
Ultra there is no such thing as a "Tax Benefit" for married couples. It's actually referred to as the Marriage Tax Penalty
I did a paper in College on the subject, and it's too late to find anything more official than this. I think I read a couple of things where congress is trying to reduce the penalty, notice I said reduce, resolving it would cut into my congressman's new boat fund.
The gist of the article:
"A "marriage penalty" exists when the combined tax liability of a married couple filing a
joint return is greater than the sum of the tax liabilities of each individual computed as if they
were not married."
Socal, Ultra is right. USA isn't tolerant as they say they are. Sure others may stone others but it is just in the laws we aren't allowed to harm people. But the hatred is still there.
Mexicans? The citizens want them out of the country. ####? Wiped out.
Muslims? Think they are spreading BS in their religion and destroying mankind. I know this because I am one. You do not know how many times people try to convert me to go to the "good side". I never see the missionaries goings to families with other religions.
English is lingua franca, accomodation is fine but I don't think it's cost-effective to do everything in every language.
So many harsh-generalizations. Saying American's feel one way or another is stupid. Some people saying that are American's even if they call themselves "citizens of the world." That doesn't matter when you travel in that world, to them you ARE an American (even if you're Canadian).
I'm an American and I'm tolerant. I personally don't give a #### if you're ####, that's as tolerant as you can get. Disagreeing with someone (or their life style) doesn't make you intolerant and tolerance doesn't mean embracing everybody either.
SoCalSports'
If anything I feel that in many respects there's also a failure on the path of the education system here to make sure that a second language is made mandatory and taught within the high school educattion system. It surprising how many N American when abroad fail to adjust and make an attempt at conversing in a particular language. But then again that's just my point of view. Having travelled through various parts of Europe and N Africa. Nt only did I make an attempt but was applauded in doing so by the natives of the particular countries in question. Having learnt Frech in high school and living in France for a period of time. I must admit that it's helped me to no end.
As for Ichiro he's quite an intelligent guy who was right to do what he did.
We all saw the feeble attempt with regard to Sosa's ignorance in Congress. But yet upon his reaching the feat of acquiring 600 home runs his English was all too eloquent and comprehensible.
Fox's situation with regard to site in Spanish is a business one and to reach an even larger audience. With that additional revenue it can't hurt their overall profitability.
If we want to get a better health insurance industry we 1st need to get our insurance out from under our employeers. When we buy car insurance or homeowners insurance we deal directly with the insurance company. Health care is not so. WE are playing with our employers money and the insurance company knows this and charges them alot more then what it is worth. This will also save our employers 1,000s of dollars per employee which can lead to even higher wages per employee. When we get to shop around for insurance like car or homeowners it makes the insurance companies compete. WE don't have that with health insurance. It is tied up in the government and with our employers.
AS for the 44 million uninsured what they don't tell you is 9 million of those are illegal immigrants, or I guess I should say non-citizens b/c some are here legally. Another high percentage of that is people who have either quit their jobs and will soon have another one with benefits, and another percentage of that number is people who just don't want to have insurance period. That 44 million is very misleading when you hear it in the drive-by media. This idea that their is 44 million people who cant get insurance is a lie. They can get it, but they chose not to. Between Medicaid & welfare, they can get covered. They chose not to use those programs.
American employers need immigrant workers. They make money by utilizing this cheaper and ----surprise--AVAILABLE---labor.>
If it weren't for these millions, start paying three times as much for lettuce, affecting Big Macs, 4 times more for strawberries, and all those shakes and pop tarts and treats, etc.
We are blessed greatly by Spanish speakers in our country. Couldn't ask for a better labor neighbor.
!Viva Mexico!
Nicelty written post, mi cuate, pero tengo que tomar otra opinion.
socal you are so right about the hospitals. I have 2 doctors, 2 nurses, and 1 PA in my immediate family. When any of them work the ER they see anybody that walks through the door insured or not.
The whole notion that people can't afford to get covered is a lie. There is private insurance and government programs that will cover you. For those who say people can't afford it, I wonder how many of those people are the ones going to the doctor for a common cold every other week or some small ailment that nobody can really do for it. Hell my parents are exactly what I just described. They go to the hospital for a runny nose! They get a shot of celestone and a prescription for antibiotics every single time! This is for a common cold which can't be cured! Multiply that same story about 1 million times and you can see why things cost so much.
Another problem is insurance covers those small little things like that. If they would stop covering the little tiny things and make people pay out of pocket, people would not go to the doctor for such trival matters. Of course the other side is of the coin is going to say "so what, people are suppose to just stay sick?" To which I say, a runny nose or a common cold cannot be cured on any level. The antibiotics you take destroy your intestinal flora which also weakens your immune system, which is why people who are always on antibiotics stay sick all the time. Not to mention having the runs.
LSU, stories like that can be told over and over again. We agree on much of this, but I still think insurance companies need to be reformed. I'm not sure how, but I do believe that they try to stick it to every person and get out of paying claims. Rather than try to help people who have paid for years, they try to avoid paying for bills. It's crazy.
Ed, I don't believe for a second that if we got rid of illegals that one, our costs would go up that much, and two that others wouldn't do the work. That same reasoning you have makes it okay to send all of our work overseas with outsourcing. It's like saying Americans don't want to do call centers so let's let INdia do them all. Of course Americans would take the jobs if offered. And if a Big Mac goes up, so what. My health costs should go down because my taxes wouldn't be as much to cover all the illegals.
Tophat, Ramp/ American students are required to take two years of a foreign language. Most don't take it seriously because they plan on living in the US. Most never travel abroad here like they do in Europe. Also, most schools also have a HS Exit exam which requires them to pass before they graduate.
"Muslims are a heavily-targeted group for searches at airlines."
No Sh.t Sherlock....maroon....
I agree that the official language needs to be English. If you have trouble on a form, got get help for it from one of your friends. Don't expect taxpayers to foot the bill for translators and multi-lingual forms. It's called being an American citizen, not a Mexican etc. living in America.
bafongu you can't profile. I mean what sense would it make to look for a middle eastern guy with a headband that reads kill all jews on it? No I think we need to look at grandma and grandpa instead. They are the real enemy! They smell bad, they can't drive very well, and they are terrible athletes!
"We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house, and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
LSU, yeah but this "person who shall not be named" is like a loaf of white bread. It's like trying to teach a cat Latin. Some opinions are so infantile that it causes depravity in all who dare read them. Sometimes I think it's really a computer like Hal that's trying to assemble random words into sentences with no knowledge of the words meanings.
Socal - Appreciate the story. I've never heard of a hospital forgiving someone's debt like that. Clearly, many of the good stories get lost in the debate.
I'll say this about health care. There are some good aspects and some not so good aspects. But, I think it all comes down to people taking care of themselves. You can't smoke, drink, and eat #### everyday and expect to be healthy. You can't do all that and sit in front of the T.V. all day everyday, and expect to be healthy. It's been said that a high percentage of diseases could be prevented by people eating right and exercising (I won't quote a number because I think that'll just take away from my point). This is part of my problem with the government. Too many people rely on government as a crutch. Government is not there to eliminate all of your worries. You've got to take some of that on yourself.
Jgrace, Amen to that. I do think many good stories are lost or never picked up by the media, but I would also venture that the hospitals don't want to forgive everyone's debt, so maybe they don't want it publicized.
definitely people need to exercise more and live healthier lives. If they did that, it would certainly improve their health. While I do think health care is great in our country, Dental is to darn expensive.
SoCalSports'
Is that mandatory within all the public school systems ? Because I seriously doubt it. Another thing that pis*es me off with the education system here is them wanting to take such things as the arts and music out of the school education system in some cases. When that happens a child to my mind loses a lot of their creative capacity for learning. If nothing else it does teach 'em a great deal of discipline and dexterity with regard to learning overall.
Say nothing as to the fact that they're now taking physical exercise also out of the curriculum. What'll it be next ?
Just, every state I have taught in requires two years of foreign language to go to college. FL, TN, and CA I can speak to my own personal experience. Students can go to Jr College or Community College without meeting foreign lang requirements, but not standard universities. Some out here are even requiring three years.
As for the arts, sadly those are cut from budgets first. I know many systems are cutting back on band and art in public schools. WHile it is true those are cut, many new computer and technology classes are making into the classroom.
1. Government forms should be in English, and non-english speakers should bear the cost of translation and any risk of misinterpretation. Why the hell should US taxpayers have to pay to have forms in multiple languages for those who don’t want to learn the language.
2. The problem is that in our health-care system, the “consumer” does not pay. The government or insurance company pays.
Evolution from “consumer-pays” to “government or insurance company pays” results in less diligence by the consumer, less price-sensitivity, and therefore rampant overcharging and inflation.
Look at the two most subsidized industries in the US – health care and education – both of which have experienced inflation far beyond the consumer price index and far beyond any other industry in the US.
Any who think universal health care will help all are SORELY mistaken. This would only erode the quality of care and actually INCREASE the cost for ALL.
3. “Arts” are inappropriate for socialized education, because in a country of 300 million, it is impossible to reach a consensus on what is “art” i.e. Robert Maplethorpe. As soon as you allow the drama club to perform “The #### Monologues” then you have to start allowing them to deliver “Debbie Does Dallas”.
TJ, while I agree with much of your assessment, I do disagree on the Arts in Public education. When I say art is being dropped, I mean ARt Class, drawing, paper meche, sculturing, appreciation of art. There is nothign wrong with this type of class. The Robert Maplethorpe collection is garbage, but I have never seen a public school pushing that in that type of forum. If they did, the local school district can take care of stopping it. What you speak of happens on the collegiate level and funded by national grants. To that I am opposed. Cutting band programs while beefing up the sports programs is not sensible. Millions are poured into HS Football stadiums and we can't have one band room or a class. Come on, not even reasonable.
As for National Health Care, I am not for it, but I am for insurance reform.
You wrote this... "if you moved to Germany or Russia or even Mexico, do you think they would have all their forms n English for us?"
Keep in mind, those countries weren't founded on the same principles that the USA was. We're a nation of immigrants.
I think you know where I stand on this. While I agree with you that some rules need to be drawn, I celebrate diversity.
I mean, come on, dude. Imagine the fun you'd have stumbling into some hot Latin girl who didn't speak a lick of English and you doing your best to communicate with her without the use of a common language. I know you've been there.
GOD BLESS UNIVISION!!!
Last edited by ReverendRhythm on July 12th at 1:36 PM.
This frustrates me as well - especially when I see it on US Government forms. That just seems like a no-no.
I guess my feelings on he Spanish language invading our country is neutral in most circumstances. I can't be so ethnocentric to think that English and only English should be spoken. Hell, I would never be able to go to Norway if that were the case in every country. Whether we like it or not, Spanish is a force to be reckoned with and I for one appreciate the fact that I am a step up above conversational. It has helped quite a bit in my life.
I would like to see citizens learn the language, but then again, most of them know more English, than Americans do Spanish. We are by far the most linguistically challenged country in the industrialized world - which is very sad and why my daughters, age 2 and 5 are both taking language classes already.
SoCalSports'
Don't get me wrong as I for one see that there's nothing wrong in a child learning about technology. But I also tend to think that there ought to be room for the arts. As that's where the creative abilities of a child's mind improves with learning and appreciating what's good around them and he creative juice that's induced when learning an instrument or just music for that matter. It teaches them if nothing else reasoning an discipline and that at all can't be bad can it ?
I've witnessed the c*ap firsthand where they're now teaching kids supposedly with regard to maths.That close enough or an approximation is good enough when it comes to determining an answer. What the #### is that all about ? On the weekends when I'm not working or teaching kids karate at our local community center. I volunteer at our local library on Saturdays for half a morning. I tutor the kids in maths and English. But when one of the kids told me that was what was being taught to him in high school, in school with regard to algebra and trig, I almost pis*ed in my pants. Whatever's going on in the public school system now is completely scary. As either we're turning out genuises for colleges or complete idiots.
justan' tophatal
Last edited by justanotherfan on July 12th at 2:02 PM.
REv, there is always body language. Words need never be spoken.
NSF< America is not the most linguistically challenged country in the world. I have been to Mexico bunches of times and other parts of South America. Those places don't learn English at all. Europe on the other hand and even Africa all learn English along side their native language. USA at least requires its HS to take two years, but I dare you to travel to Mexico and try to speak just English and get by. Go to Monterrey for a day and see how far you get.
I watched most of Bowling for Columbine and it made me sicko. Moore actually blamed KMart b/c they sold (at the time) bullets in their stores. Then he had the nuts to go to Charleston Heston's house and blame the NRA for some little girls death in Michigan b/c they support the 2nd Amendment. He even asked Mr. Heston point blank if he had a loaded gun in his house! Now why is that any of his business? I couldn't believe it. Mr. Heston was very nice to him and answered his question "yes". To which Moore asked him why! Can you believe that? Could you imagine walking up to your neighbors house whom you have never said 3 words to and ask them if they had a loaded gun in his house? That is completely nobody's business. But there was Moore being a #### as usual. Mr. Heston finally just walked away from him and left him outside alone. I think Moore and is little propagandist shows are just that propaganda.
How come his documentaries get screen time, yet we can't see Obsession the Movie on screen? I know why of course but still enjoy asking the question.
We live in a wonderful country. The United States of America has one of the highest standards of living and the best health care in the world. (Stick with me, this has relevance in sports, or at least on this Fox sports site.) Contrary to what 
Today as I have read blog after blog, I noticed in one of them, 
Last year, I had two Korean students who lived with me. At spring break we went down to the CA DMV and they took the written driving test. Now both of these girls speak English, but they were allowed to take the test in Korean. It blows my mind. How many different languages does the DMV have to print its tests in to help out foreigners? I’m not sure if every state does this, but CA does. 
Then today as I am reading Fox Sports and I notice under each of the major headings where the stories are a button that is labled “en Espanol.” I never noticed it before, but that is because the face of this internet site changes on a regular basis. When you click that button you are taken to another page that is written all in Spanish. I understand that Fox is trying to garner a larger viewing audience, but it still bothers me. Maybe I just live to close to Mexico and the constant struggle we have with illegal aliens has me biased. It is a real issue here in southern California where our tax dollars go to help support illegals in schools, hospitals, and even in housing. No matter what the reason, I am offended and I plan on writing Fox. Why not cater to the Germans, the French, or the Asians. We can not become all things to all people. I understand that we have a President who butchers the English language, but that is no excuse to embrace multilingualism. Take a look on your Fox site, and if it bothers you write Fox too. 
