Just perusing a few headlines over the week and thought I would pose a few questions based upon that content. Run your mouse over the links to see my answers.
What if:
Tom Brady did use steroids? Should he be stripped of his Super Bowl rings?
Floyd Landis’ cheating caused the suicide of his father in law?
Annika Sorenstam, was not competing against media darling Michelle Wie, would the press even notice that she won again last week running her total to 82 victories world wide?
Just a few of the puzzling questions that I deal with on a day to day basis and none of them have easy answers. I have my opinions, but I would like to hear yours. I will respond to each and every one as I have time.
I am getting frustrated because this word editor will not hold my paragraph lines. Shaq and Landis should have some seperation to them. Just add a few periods and its fixed, sort of.
Last edited by socalsportsfan on August 19th at 8:55 AM.
I know I'm old school, but to me Pete Rose is being done so wrong by MLB. He set records that may never be broken. He was an all-star at 4 different positions. He played all-out all the time and Charlie Hustle was the epitome of how you were supposed to play ball for my generation. I agree, if Giamatti were alive Rose is in.
hog, I agree. THE HOF has become a joke because now you only get in if it's politically correct. Kirby Pucket is in, but not Rose. Now they may try to keep Big Mac and Bonds out because of politics. How about throwing Ty Cobb out and ####lord Perry. Racists and cheaters are in, but keep out two of the greatest hitters without ever testing positive.
He means that Puckett is in the Hall of Fame, and Rose is not.
Tom Brady, an American hero like Floyd Landis was, will find himself with a huge public backing. There's no way America's favorite quarterback would resort to cheating!
They're fine condemning Bonds with little to no evidence, but the minute their boy gets named, they're putting up the shields. At least New England will find out why San Francisco continues to support Bonds.
Saying there's little to no eveidence that Bonds used steroids is like saying there's little to no evidence that Yao Ming had a growth spurt in his mid-teens.
Also, saying Ty Cobb shouldn't be in the HOF because of off field stuff is stupid, because, well it's off-field. The roiders, as well as Rose, broke the rules of baseball. Shoeless Joe still ain't in the HOF either, and he was a saint off the field from what I understand. And don't give me "Steroids weren't against the rules!!!!!!!" because they were. They just weren't tested for, which is stupid, but they were still not legal. Period.
Travis, do you think Ty Cobb never gambled? Do you think Brady will be persecuted like Bonds? As for your assertion, certain banned substances like Andro were legal and could be purchased at any GNC. Lots of precursors which are banned by MLB are still legal to purchase. HGH is illegal without a doctor's prescription, but you can buy it in Mexico right now. So just because it is illegal here does not mean you can not use it. You can use marijuana in Denmark, come back here and test positive, ala Ricky WIlliams.
This tired argument that if it is illegal in the US it is wrong is old and just plain wrong. Prostitution is legal in Germany, so can you be prosecuted over here if you go on vacation there and hire a hooker? If during the offseason, an athlete trains in another country, gets steroids legally, but comes here and fails a test he will be punished but he did not break any laws.
Last edited by socalsportsfan on August 19th at 3:32 PM.
Oh okay, just because you think it's okay, let's make it legal!!!
Could you use your special "law" changing powers to make stealing legal? My neighbor has a nice new PSP I've had my eye on
Look, I have no doubt that Ty Cobb gambled on games while high on speed and eating babies, but he didn't get caught. You can say Bonds didn't either, but gambling on baseball doesn't make your head size grow exponentially in your mid 30s. If you get into a car wreck they use experts to figure out what happened even though they never actually saw what happened. Same principal applies here
You seem to mix up laws of the land and rules of baseball easily. Might I suggest a dictonary?
Travis it is you are mixed up. Ty Cobb and Pete Rose are one analogy. Rose should be in if Cobb is in period.
Also, I never said I think something is legal, the laws of the land define what is and what is not legal. Stealing as far as I know it is illegal in most countries, prostitution and drugs are not the same in every country. Go to Thailand or Asia for a good time.
As for Bonds, until he has tested positive he is safe from prosecution. YOu can deny it all you want, but some things are legal in other places. You can deny it, but Big Mac was using Andro and the reporters saw it and asked him about it. It was legal to purchase, but now it is banned in baseball.
You hate Bonds and that is all there is to it. Besides, this post just asks the question, "What if?"
Last edited by socalsportsfan on August 19th at 3:58 PM.
Bonds not getting into the HOF has nothing to do with gambling Travis. Are you sober today? Rose is the one with the gambling problem and Bonds is the one with steroid issues. To compare Cobb and Bonds is not what I did up top. Giamatti would have let Rose in had he stayed alive.
My problem with Bonds being kept out has more to do with known cheaters like ####lord Perry who is in the HOF. He admits to cheating, everyone knew he cheated, but no one cared and he got into the HOF.
Dan, you may have asked the What If questions too. I tried to make my post unique by answering in the links and the way I highlighted them. I don't think many have picked up on that yet.
Hey SoCal, very original idea. I have to admit, the first time I read this post I clicked on the links and went all over the internet before I figured out I was doing something wrong. Man, the internet is huge, by the way.
you guys have to be kidding me!they dig up a phone call brady made to a trainer and all of a sudden he's in bond's league?i have no doubt tom called this guy because at time he was quite renowned among all the athletes so of course you could see someone checking him out.but they didn't get a chance to hook up,end of story.how many auther athletes had passing glances with this guy?It's tom Brady so this is gonna sell,thats about it ,so tell me something real newsworthy.
Hey Half, maybe I should have spelled it out better. Sorry about that. I bet you did not notice that most links went to ESPN. I was making a statement, then felt bad for Fox. So it's about 50 50 of each.
Madman, it may just be a coincidence, but then again we don't know yet. Why would Anderson even mention his name in court?
Great post, socal...I too almost clicked on the first link, but as I paused to see what it was, there was your answer to the question! Almost like magic! Very original idea.
My favorite part about the Tom Brady issue was the media personality (can't for the life of me remember who it was) who said, with much conviction, that Tom Brady must, as a superstar player, be extremely careful about who he talks to, even in a seemingly harmless and ordinary phone conversation.
At the time he said it, it was common knowledge that the contact between Anderson and Brady took place several years ago, when Brady either sitting behind Drew Bledsoe on New England's bench, just entering the starting lineup or just coming off his first Super Bowl. In any case, it made me laugh to hear this guy state his opinion so matter-of-factly and so wrongly (is that a word?).
if brady used steroids during the seasons the pats won the super bowl, yes. since we'll probably never know if he used them at all, its basically pointless to ask. before you chastise me for my opinion on bonds, let me remind you that i have already stated the investigation of him is going nowhere, and basically just wasting time and money. let me also say that we may as well just say fu#k the rules and laws, and allow every american to go to another country, break them, come back here, and pretend nothing happened. if an athlete leaves this country, takes something that is legal there, but illegal here, comes back, and tests positive, he still took it, so yes, he needs to be held accountable.
landis- i bet he feels like #### if thats why the suicide took place. what if it happened simply because the media kept hounding him about his son in law?
holyfield- he's still got 1 good ear yet, right?
seau- he wouldnt look foolish, and risk looking more foolish should he struggle.
anika- she used to be recognized before wie...maybe she could be again...after wie finally wins something.
shaq- he would have had kobe arrested for soliciting a minor via an internet chat room...(someone is going to take that seriously, and rip me a new one)
giamatti- gonna need a refresher on who he is...too lazy to find out for myself. but i'm guessing his family would be happier...maybe.
greg anderson- it'll blow the roof off the investigation, but only to the extent that they'll waste another ton or more of money and time, and still come up with very little solid evidence.
kahne- more importantly, what if gordon, earnhardt or stewart miss the chase?
kournikova- i doubt we'd have ever known who she is.
clarett- a sophomore slump, or he would have gotten kicked out anyway, for not going to classes.
socal From what I understand Brady's account of his conversation wasn't about the use of steroids or anything purportedly close to that. He was seeking the use of a training facility. Either way think of it what you will but the NFL's Golden Boy doesn't need to be involved in this mess. He's got everything going for him at the moment.
Have you seen his girlfriend ? It's supposedly actress Bridget Moynahan. Boy is she hot !!!
Kournikova .......I'd watch her bake brownies dressed in nothing but a teddy if it were a spectator sport.
Sorenstam Gets the pub......but's she's certainly deserving of more ! Wie is the 'golden girl' of the moment but the candescent light will suddenly begin to wane unless she wins or starts to compete topless.
Clarett...Staying in school wouldn't have made sense unless he was able to obtain the sort of largesse given to OSU's Rhett Bomar. It's hard for a pimp to stay straight.
Bart Giammatti Dead or alive would certainly be an improvement on Selig's tenureship of the commissioner's office.
Holyfield and Landis should be allowed to donate their sperm for scientific experiment. Using it as part of either invitro fertlization or stem cell research might not be such a bad thing.
Last edited by tophatal on August 20th at 1:20 AM.
top- regarding clarett....staying in school should have, and was, the only logical option. that is, if he were willing to go to class and give any sort of effort while there. the most important thing was that he was not eligible for the nfl draft, and he knew it, and anyone who told him he could get an exemption, or get the nfl to change their requirements were selling him a metaphoric '76 pacer, and trying to pass it off as a porche.
cuzzifer The one thing for sure is that Clarett doesn't need to be anywhere near an educational facility as he wasn't interested in getting an education from the outset. It's wasted on an individual like him and this is coming from someone who's a minority. Sad to say he gives minorities and in particular African Americans a bad name. It's fitting into the stereotype that we'd rather be athletes or rappers rather than getting an education.
first, Cuz, bmoy, tophat,and ed, thanks for commenting. To each his own, they are only our opinions.
No one knows for sure what Brady's involvement is, but it is su####ious given he missed the first two days of training camp and everyone is mum about why. Secondly, why did Greg Anderson evoke Brady's name if it was just to check on gym facilities?
Cuz, Annika never had the publicity like Wie. Giamatti was the baseball commissioner who made Rose take a deal to be banned from baseball, but he told Rose he would reinstate him in a year or two, then he died before he could. Tophat, even dead he is better than Selig.
Cuz, if you take something legal in another country and enter this country a week later, you can not be prosecuted for it. If you play a sport, then they can punish you, but not our government. Travis is trying to say taking drugs that were not banned was still illegal and I am saying that it not necessarily true.
Socal no worries, I loved the fact that you wrote it this way. It clearly backed up my point on how we as sports fans cannot help exploring the 'what ifs'.
As for Brady, I find it odd that you say he is in trouble only because the bloggers who have been around long enough know you're the kind of guy that will hold back until further evidence arises. As of now, I can't see how Brady can be in trouble without any evidence other than Anderson and Brady's word.
so, are you saying that if ricky williams wants to get high in africa somewhere, he should be allowed to come back to the U.S. and fail an nfl mandated drug test, and defense it by simply saying "i was in africa, where it is legal."
i believe what travis is really saying is that even though the drugs were not banned by the league these individuals played for, it was illegal by U.S. law, which, in my opinion, trumps any regulations or lack thereof by said league...at least thats my interpretation.
i agree annika was never the media darling wie is. and i also dont think she desired to be in the spotlight like that either.
thanks for the refresher on giamatti. i'll put it this way...if bonds, mcgwire, sosa, and/or palmiero get in the hall, rose should too. personally, none of them would get my vote.
Cuz, if you go to Denmark or Germany and hire a prostitute which is legal there, should you be thrown in jail when you get home? Different countries have different laws. The government can not prosecute you for going to Denmark and smoking dope. Now if your company you work for says its wrong, they can fire you or suspend you. The NFL was well within their rights to fire Ricky Williams, but MLB never had a policy until 2003 that said Andro, HGH, or other steroids were banned. They even encouraged or winked at amphetamine usage which was illegal in this country. Mike Schmidt is in the HOF and used them regularly and admits it. YOu can not punish Bonds or Big Mac for what they did if MLB did not ban them.
Also, I would be careful to speak for Travis, he isn't even sure what he means sometimes. He just likes to argue and admits that too.
socal- thats why i said "i believe" regarding what i thought travis meant.
i see what you're saying about the drug issue, but that doesnt change the fact that using those drugs were against the LAW, even if MLB didnt have a specific rule against them. i know this has been argued/debated alot, and the question i ask is this: if you burn down your place of work, should you be allowed to get away with it if it doesnt state in the employee handbook it is against company policy? it's still illegal, but your company doesnt say you cant do it.
socal, there have been a lot of ideas thrown around as to why Brady missed those first couple of practice days; I think possible injury was one and support for Deion Branch (who is holding out) was number two. Either way, given that the Patriots as an organization are generally tight-lipped about internal matters such as this, I'll bet we never find out where Brady was or what he was doing, unless it was of a more personal nature (i.e. he was getting a root canal or something ridiculous like that).
I thought it was obvious why Anderson threw Brady's name out there - because even if it WAS just to inquire about a workout time or gym usage, it was still Tom Brady, the NFL's Golden Boy, a guy frequently referred to in hushed tones as "The Next Joe Montana". It adds an entirely different perspective to the situation - we want to believe that Bonds used steroids because he's just a jerk, and that's what jerks do; they cheat. We don't want to believe that Brady used them because he's always seemed like such a nice guy who wouldn't need to cheat to get ahead.
Cuz, once again, it is against the law to burn down a building here in the states and probably every where in the world, but not all drugs that are illegal in the US are illegal elsewhere. So you are not breaking in laws of the US when you partake in "weed" in Copenhagen. Will it get you in trouble with the NFL, probably if you are tested, but the police can not punish you. As for steroids, again they are legal in many other countries so this is just an "if" Bonds used them elsewhere, it would have been legal, but it also did not violate MLB at that time either.
Bmoy, it does make sense and I think that was what he was trying to do, but what if?
socalsports Brady's position is damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't know that he and Anderson were close acquaintances but if he's looking for a training facility, with his name recognition he could walk unto any college campus in Southern California and be welcomed with open arms.
Last edited by tophatal on August 20th at 2:51 PM.
Tophat, excellent point. I bet he could go to the San Diego Chargers and find a training facility. I bet he could go to any 24 hour fitness just to work out. I don't buy that he was just looking for a training facility, but I don't necessarily think he actually hooked up for supplements.
Didn't this conversation take place several years ago, after he left Michigan but before he became THE Tom Brady? If so, it wouldn't be such a reach to contact Bonds' trainer - the two are from the same area (not sure if Brady was still living there at the time) and he probably figured that he could used that as an "in", especially if he believed that Bonds was clean.
Of course, Anderson and Brady could have done "business" with the understanding that if anything happened, Anderson shrugs it off as a passing acquaintance (which he did). Like it or not, we might never really know all the answers.
socal Perhaps he was looking to go the way of Hugh Grant and find his own 'Divine' ?
All being said this isn't what the NFL wants to see happeming for its 'poster boy', because it'll lead to a lot of unanswered questions.
It's not like Anderson to start throwing people's name out there but I guess he wanted to deflect some of the heat away from Bonds.
Tom Brady is such a good person that would never use steriods. Why would you want to use steriods anyway. he claimed just to have met up with just to fin a personal trainer, and they never got along. So i think, and most likley the whole world thinks that he is steriod free.
1234, People said the same thing about Raffy Palmeiro. mtc, Barry is not innocent, but he certainly has not been proven guilty. Brady is innocent, but his image may get tarnished before this is all over.
