Is this an absurd statement?Could it be true?Well if you look at the posts of certain bloggers, which I will refrain from naming, they make statements like athletes who are over 40 have a drastic decline in production and the only way Barry Bonds can get better is by using Steroids.Let’s take a look at Roger Clemens numbers over the years.
In 1990 Clemens had an ERA of 1.93.For the previous 6 years of his career he had averaged just over 3.33 a year and suddenly he had a tremendous year at 1.93.Clemens would go another 14 years never dipping below the 2.0 mark and just four years ago his ERA was a whopping 4.35 and suddenly last year his ERA was 1.83.According to one blogger at Roger’s age this is not possible without juicing up.
Is it possible that the truly great athletes get smarter with their age and therefore can compensate for the loss of some of their abilities?Maybe some star athletes get a few more calls as they get older and more renowned.Is it just possible that some truly rare athletes are able to mentally stay sharp and thereby fight the effects of aging a bit longer than their counterparts?Maybe Bonds has learned to be more patient at the plate and thereby always hitting only strikes in the zone and it translates into more HR’s.Many a player in the MLB can hit a HR off of a batting coach and when they know the ball is coming right down the middle of the plate, but hitting it off a pitcher intent on striking you out is another thing.I am not sure that steroids make anyone more patient.
For those who are reading this and saying, “How dare you defame Clemens name?”Lighten up and consider what I am saying.Just because Roger has aged gracefully and gets a few more strikes given to him by umps and because he has put on a bit of weight, I am not saying he is juiced. But I would argue the same things for Barry Bonds. Did Barry use steroids? Maybe. Has Roger Clemens? Maybe. Look at his picture above and see how his shoulders have gotten broader and look at the anger in his face! Will we ever know for sure? Not as long as both of them stay quiet on the matter, but we all can have our su####ions. According to Jose Canseco, it wasn't just the batters using during the 90's, but they are the only ones who are called out on it for their records.
In that case, where does this put the Ancient Mariner himself, Jamie Moyer? After all, he is even older than the Rocket and seems to be more or less indestructible, in terms of having had any serious injuries. Sure, his fastball tops out somewhere near a "blazing" 80 miles an hour, but it isn't any less stressful on his pitching arm. Like Clemens, he has a pretty intensive workout program that he uses during the offseason. His body, though, is nowhere near like what Clemens looks like--he is rangier and more wiry in appearance. He plans to play this year, and next year too, barring any great unforeseen incidents. What do you think---how does HE manage it?
In my opinion athletes today train better and teams have better facilities, weight programs, and dare I say better "nutrition" or "supplements". Still you can not ignore that some athletes are just more gifted and part of it is their work ethic. Roger trains as hard as anyone ever has just like Nolan Ryan. But do they use steroids? No one can prove it one way or the other. You can accuse anyone based on head size or bulking up, but accusations do not make it true. I would love to think that Roger never used anything, but chances are he may have experimented with the "clear" too. Who knows.
First Tony Stewart, now Clemens? I'm not sure what to say here. I don't dismiss the possibility that he could have done steroids, but more than likely, a guy his age takes HGH, which most testing methods are not yet sophisticated enough to detect (and to my knowledge, baseball only tests for steroids, anyway- somebody please correct me if I'm wrong). From what I hear, it makes you feel like a 20-year-old. Anyway, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, but drug use in sports is far more rampant than anyone realizes, and HGH is the new trend. Nothing surprises me anymore.
HGH has some pretty scary side effects, and they're not sure that they've even figured all of them out yet. Why would anyone want to put that stuff into themselves? No, thank you, not me.
HGH is banned on many other lists but I am not sure that it is banned in MLB, but according to jgrace when it is banned is not important as long as you are trying to cheat the system it is wrong. Many drugs are new to the scene, but if they offer enhancements, speed up healing, make you feel young again, it is PED, performance enhancing drug just like cialis, viagra, and levitra.
Last edited by socalsportsfan on February 26th at 2:09 PM.
You're becoming our 'agent provacateur' on the steroid issue, in a good way. Someone else recently pointed out to me that it isn't just hitters who use steroids. Don't think Clemens does. Like some of the hitters, modern players have found ways through training to stretch out their productive years. Good post.
But why do we assume guys like Bonds do steroids but we give Roger a free pass. He clearly had his lowest ERA ever at 43 and is one of the best ever. Not all steroids build muscle mass, some help with endurance like EPO. I believe the first player ever suspended under steroids new policy last year was a pitcher. I am going to research that next.
Roger was always solidly built unlike Barry. Barry was a twig well into his twenties before magically ballooning to a pro-wrestler physique. When this happened to Mark McGwire, you weren't a little su####ious?
WHo knows about him. HE could have be taking HGH or DHEA for all we know. Pitchers do not lift for muscle mass, they lift for endurance more than anything. Having huge biceps is not good for a pitcher, they need long muscles not short and compact like a power hitter wants. 2 totally different workout regimens. I seem to recall a Sports Illustrated issue back in 2003 about steroids, that had Schilling, Rogers, Caminiti in it. They talked about both pitchers and everyday players taking them. AS far as Clemens goes I am open to all sides on it. I think everyone in the last 10-12 years is suspect not b/c I think so just b/c of all the stuff out there about it.
If you look at Roger in college he was pretty skinny. Do a google image search and see for yourself. It was too hard to put that picture in here, but he was skin and bones.
Well to go from skinny to fat is one thing, but to go from a skinny face to a filled out face with a bowed up body is evidence of using something like HGH or steroids. Working out will not make your face fill out or grow, if anything it should make it tighter, sue to loss of fat tissue. HGH and other stuff will make it grow, b/c it grows the facial bones extensively.
In your comment above you say maybe he is takign HGH and now you say it makes your face grow, and the fact is it only grows in extreme doses. Low levels are used therapuetically and can have an anti-aging effect making players feel young again. If Clemens used HGH then he cheated just as Barry did using anabolic steroids, but what I want to know is what is the "clear" No one knows what kind of steroid it is for sure.
Exactly Socal!!! Why have we not been informed on what is in the clear or cream? A very good point!!! Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?
I mean if there was nothing in it the media would have just put it out there, but it is all hush-hush.
Last edited by LSUfan on February 27th at 9:27 AM.
HGH is something we all have, it is just declining as we get older. There are certain natural processes the body goes through as we age. HGH Is supposed to turn back time. Increase energy, muscle, decrease body fat, and other signs of aging. Using HGH, what does that do to our bodies in the long haul. I mean if you mess with the past doesn't affect the future?
HGH is what is supposed to cause cranial bulges because the bones have fused and now they start growing again. HGH, human growth hormone, is given to children who have pituitary problems and less than normal HGH levels. This prevents them from being dwarfs. It can be given to young people and help them to grow taller than normal also. It is an ethical dilemma right now about its use in treating kids who are short. Just like plastic surgery for kids, some parents are trying to get it to give their kids an edge in sports with extra height. The point is, it is performance enhancing just as anabolic steroids are.
By the way HGH causes acromegaly the condition where an adult who uses too much gets a bulging forehead and also big hands and feet and internal organs. These people often die by 40 because of heart failure. None of which Bonds has been accused of. BIg hands or feet??Have not heard that.
Last edited by socalsportsfan on February 27th at 10:13 AM.
I think I get where you're going with this, but I don't think it's going to take any heat off of Barry. I still think Barry used, and maybe Roger used too. And probably a lot of others. But Barry is the most famous steroid user on Earth, and I think a lot of people don't want him to break Ruth's record for a lot of reasons. I could give a #### about Ruth, his record has already been broken and he didn't play against the best players at the time. But if Barry breaks Hank Aaron's record, that's going to be a black eye for the sport. Hank Aaron was NOT a steroid user, thank you very much.
Thanks Socal, I have the list. It is also banned in highschool sports. Some that aren't should be. I used to work with a coach that promoted not only creatin but would tell the boys anything that helps, hey why not. I had two kids drop to the ground and sieze during a practice and he called them ####'s. Their b/p was 210 over 180. They were using, trying to please coach and in the end he makes fun of them and humiliates them off the team. It starts so much earlier now days.
Yep creatine is just as bad. I had teammates who ended up in the hospital b/c it crystalized in their kidneys, not to mention the fact they didnot drink enough water while on it. Creatine has to be cycled just like steroids.
HGH is a banned substance too, like you said. It also causes the bottom jaw bone to protrude outward. If you have not seen the pic of McGwire in that Schilling interview here at Foxsports, he has that protruding jaw, which I may be completely out of line to say, could have been caused by HGH usage. I did not see that protrusion in any earlier career pics of his, but I could be retarded who knows.
Ryan didnot use anything, he looked all of his age. Skinny and old.
LSU, that was a rhetorical question for Metswon because he said ROger is throwing fast at his age. Nolan Ryan was still fast at his age, but he was on Advil. NSAID.
do I consider Advil PE,no. But an argument is being made that Roger is potentially guilty because he could throw very hard at an advanced age and I was saying so did Nolay Ryan so does that make him guilty. The advil thing is from the endorsement deals that Ryan did with them where he came out and said it helped him pitch. If you don't remember those commercials, I can not adequately recount them, but he talked about how they helped his aching muscles so he could pitch. Roger also claims to take advil.
First off hgh will soon be in every doctors office in future years and will be the most sought after hormone to keep you living longer and healthier lives...why should we be denied the gift of youth and vigor when we have that ability to use it so freely...every drug has side effects and hgh side effects are actually quite minor compared to other hormone replacement therapies...
here we go,
supplements put of 5-15 of muscle and water
aka eas before and afters, tony whatevers
power 90. steroids rock the house period.
please simplify your query, have you ever seen
before and afters as bonds and clemens in the
50 60 or 70,s. attention clemens donate your
18 millions salary to charity or leave the country
Last edited by tubofgoo1 on December 13th at 4:41 PM.
Is this an absurd statement?
