First of all, I'm surprised you 'deleted' my comment on your Seattle/OKC Battle blog post/thread. Frankly, I can understand why you did, however - it's never fun to write something only to have that piece torn to shreds by facts, truths, and undeniable reason.
Therefore, with that in mind, I write this letter to you and anyone else that shares your opinion(s) and position(s):
In an effort to instill credibility to my board messages/blog posts and to those of other Seattle Supersonics fans, I have done my honest best to be civil and maintain decorum. I have pretty much refrained from the 'hillbilly/####' jokes and comments, and I think that if you took the time to read through all the posts on the Seattle Supersonics message board in the past 1-2 years, you would easily find that there are maybe a dozen individuals who have engaged in name-calling and the whole 'OKC bashing' to which you have wholly endeared yourself.
In truth, very few people gracing the Seattle Supersonics message board have been rude or made posts unfit for a 'family' setting. A couple have been harsh, for sure, including several of mine. However, if you could possibly remove the victim label which you have firmly affixed to your lapel, you will easily see that most of the messages and blog posts have been critical of Clay Bennett, the NBA, David Stern, Howard Schultz, and the City Of Seattle... not of Oklahoma City, Oklahomans, Okies, southerners, ####, hillbillies, or whatever term can best be used to describe some or all of you Oklahomans.
I understand your point(s), but you are required by common rule of civic course and responsibility to consider and accept some glaring and undesirable facts:
1) Clay Bennett is a liar and a thief. He openly attempted to extort the citizens of Seattle, and he has made his intentions clear regarding his future intent to do the very same thing to citizens of Oklahoma City.
2) David Stern and Clay Bennett have colluded to rape the City Of Seattle of forty-one rich and wonderful years of professional basketball history.
3) The City Of Seattle, with its hand relatively tied, made a pseudo-valiant effort to keep the Seattle Supersonics in Seattle, but the fact that the "specific performance" clause in the Seattle Supersonics' lease with the city was no justifiable cause to keep the franchise in Seattle was their downfall. In other words, it was a nice try, but there was no honest and realistic hope of keeping the team in the Northwest.
4) Clay Bennett's agreeement with Oklahoma City clearly states that if a new, $500 million world-class arena is not built or publicly-funded within five years of the franchise arriving in Oklahoma City, Bennett has an opt-out clause, thus making the 15-year agreement null and void. He can then move the team to Las Vegas, Kansas City, or any other place that will give hm the half-billion dollar arena he is seeking.
5) Seattle Supersonics fans have a right - no, an obligation - to be angry, sad, offended, hurt... the list goes on.
You - yes, YOU - with your supposed vote in favor of a tax in order to fund Bennett's $500 million rec-room have actually voted in favor of collusion, lying, theievery, thuggery, and outright deception of the public.
You - yes, YOU - with your position that Seattle, either the city government or the citizens themselves, have done something so awfully wrong and deserving of being raped of our basketball franchise and 41-year history, have furthered the idea of holding an entire city hostage for what ultimately amounts to the betterment of a billionaire businessman's wet dream.
You - yes, YOU - with your inability to recognize that the Supersonics were Seattle's team and that the people here, regardless of what you have heard from Clay Bennett, have made concerted and honest efforts to keep the team in Seattle, are showing nothing more than shortsightedness, which is terribly unflattering.
You - yes, YOU - having lived through the Hornets coming and going within two years should know so much better than to want to take someone else's team. We're not talking about a natural disaster here, kiddo. We're talking about the theft of identity, culture, and history for the almighty dollar.
As I stated on your "blog", I hope basketball works in Oklahoma City. I sincerely doubt that it will, but I hope it does. And, when Bennett holds your city hostage to the tune of $500+ million or the "I'm taking my toys and going away" option he gave Seattle, I hope you begin to feel a slight sliver of what us Seattleites have had to endure for the past two full years.
In my experience, Clay Bennett does not represent Oklahomans as a whole. For the most part, they are good, honest, hard-working people with civility and fairness being highly regarded. You - yes, YOU - however, DO reppresent everyday Oklahomans, girlie, and until you can do so by showing some respect, consideration, and cast away the whole "poor me and my begrudged city" attitude, your representation of Oklahoma is, frankly, rather poor. In short, you ought to be embarrassed of your behavior, regardless of whether or not some people who are Seattle Supersonics ought to be embarrassed of theirs, as well.
If nothing else, I hope you and yours have honestly learned a valuable and good life's lesson in all of this. If you have, then wonderful - perhaps that will translate into you and many other Oklahomans showing some class and dignity and respect for those who have just been pillaged. If you have not, then, well, so be it - I nor anyone else can force-feed you reasonable opinions to be considered.
Be prepared, however, to be raped by Bennett the same way - and perhaps even in new and interesting ways - that Seattle was raped. We were given an option: give us your wallets or give us your history. Money cannot buy history, and shame on the Seattle City Council for selling us, the citizens, out so quickly and for such a cheap ($75 million) price.
When it is your turn to be sold out, what price will be good enough for you?
If you consider and answer that question honestly, then you have no business WHATSOEVER on the Seattle Supersonics message board(s) until you can show the humility and considerate behavior which you openly demand of others.
Also...
"Oklahoma is the third largest natural gas-producing state in the nation."
Really?
Uhh, yeah - I wouldn't advertise that one so much.
Wow! Well said dude. I being from New Orleans know what you must be going thru after almost losing both our football team and basketball team. Although under different curcumstances nontheless it's hard to lose or even be threatened with the loss of something you have devoted many years of passion to. Goodluck to the people of Seattle and hopefully someday you can get another team with a much better owner.
Right on man!!! If she deletes comments though I doubt this will sink in, some times people are blinded by that flute playing. Bennett doesn't even play very well.
Why don't you Seattle people put the blame where it belongs? On the Seattle fans for not supporting their loser team and for the ownership for never doing anything about it. You haven't had a championship calibar team except for one year since the days of Jack Sikma according to anything I can find. One year with Kemp and Payton you were in the finals isn't that right?
And Gambit? Shame on you. The Hornets were stolen from Charlotte. You have no dog in this fight.
Yes, it's ALL our fault. You obviuosly haven't followed the story, nor have a clue what we in Seattle have and are supporting. The funny thing is, even with the inevitable departure of my Sonics, we still had better attendance than other NBA teams.
Question:
If you went to the supermarket to buy a gallon of milk and saw the expiration date was just one day away, would you buy that milk?
Shame on you for blaming the fans! We had no say in this matter.
Shame on you for blaming the fans in Oklahoma for liking what they saw when the Hornets gave us a great two years. I live in Tulsa. I didn't vote to bring the Sonics to OKC. It wasn't a state wide vote. I didn't want the worst team in the NBA. Ther are other better teams and Kevin Durant is the only good player on that team. But we have them now and we will support them now. At least give them a chance to get better.
Money talks and that was a deal between rich men (starbucks guy and the owner of the biggest and really only big newspaper in Okla.) and politicians. Notice how quickly your mayor sold you out for an additional 10 million now and maybe a few million later? Stop blaming common people. It's about the money. It's always been about the money and will always be about the money.
Kansas City didn't like it when their team bolted to Sacramento. Charlotte didn't like it when they bolted to New Orleans. New Orleans didn't like it when they bolted to Salt Lake City. Buffalo didn't like it when the Clippers bolted to San Diego and San Diego OR Los Angeles didn't like it when they bolted to Los Angeles. It is is what it is. MONEY.
Who here is blaming Oklahoma? Did you not read rmac's post? Or my post for that matter? You guys see Seattle fans upset and you automatically assume we blame Oklahomans. Try reading our posts over again before making your snap judgements.
Last edited by WestSeattle on July 8th at 11:22 AM.
You also said that you didn't want the worst team in the NBA. WOW, do you realize it was Clay Bennett and Sam Presti that made them the worst team in the NBA? Go back and check the record books. Last season was the worst season in SuperSonic history. Could it be that the Sonics were liguidated of all that was familiar? How many ex-Sonics were in the playoffs this year thanks to the current formally-known Sonics front office? You guys keep saying stick to the facts, well maybe you should learn them first.
Last edited by WestSeattle on July 8th at 12:12 PM.
1977-78 - Seattle Supersonics in NBA finals, lose
1978-79 - Seattle Supersonics in NBA finals, win
1995-96 - Seattle Supersonics in NBA finals, lose
David Stern has surpassed Bud Selig as the most crooked, dishonest, insipid and inept professional sports "commissioner" in modern history.
Howard Schultz sold the team to the first, highest bidder because he wanted to make a profit.
The City Of Seattle offered Schultz a $230 million publicly-funded renovation of Key Arena. Schultz declined shortly before selling the franchise.
Clay Bennett stated clearly and pointedly that he had no intention whatsoever of moving the franchise, and that he would work diligently with city leaders and other businesses and business groups to develop a plan for renovations to Key Arena or the construction of a new facility for the franchise. That never happened.
Clay Bennett's ownership group was offered 20+ acres by the Muckleshoot Indian Tribe - free of charge, mind you - to build a new, state-of-the-art NBA facility. Bennett flatly refused that offer.
The City Of Seattle offered the same renovation package to Bennett as was offered to Schultz. The city was rebuked, rebuffed, denied.
David Stern stated not 18 months ago that Key Arena had no future as a home to n NBA franchise, regardless of the proposed renovation package offered not once, but twice, to two different franchise owners. Stern has since reversed course on that issue, stating recently that a $300 million renovation package to Key Arena would bring the facility back within the ran
David Stern stated not 18 months ago that Key Arena had no future as a home to n NBA franchise, regardless of the proposed renovation package offered not once, but twice, to two different franchise owners. Stern has since reversed course on that issue, stating recently that a $300 million renovation package to Key Arena would bring the facility back within the range of "NBA class facilities".
Clay Bennett's ownership group sought to terminate the franchise's lease with the City Of Seattle based upon the premise that the franchise had no hope whatsoever of making a profit while playing its home games in Key Arena... the same Key Arena that could have been renovated for $230 million... and must now be renovated for $300 million to please David Stern... and which will likely need even MORE renovations once the NBA decides they were ridiculously shortsighted and narrow-minded in their approach to this entire squabble.
Greg Nickels, Mahyor of Seattle, failed miserably in his attempts to force Bennett to keep the team in Seattle for the duration of the lease contract. He then failed the public - the voters and taxpayers - by negotiating such a pathetic settlement ($45 million now, $30 million more in 2013 if the NBA doesn't return to Seattle and Key Arena has a $300 million renovation on the books waiting to happen). The Seattle city council failed in their negotiations with Bennett and the NBA to secure a new location (the Muckleshoot site would have been perfect, actually, situated south of Seattle and at the hub of the two primary north-to-south- freeways in the Puget
... (the Muckleshoot site would have been perfect, actually, situated south of Seattle and at the hub of the two primary north-to-south- freeways in the Puget Sound area) or to secure funding for the renovations required to keep Key Arena an "NBA class facility"... but they failed in their task without knowing that $300 million was the magic number. Go figure.
I know it's hard to accept, folks, but Bennett stole from my city, my heritage, my history. Seattleites are proud of the Supersonics, and always will be. Many of us watched them succeed and fail for 41 long, wonderful years.
And, to see them now, leaving our beautiful and vibrant city because of all that has happened is completely disheartening and disgraceful.
Enjoy them while they are in Oklahoma City, you guys... because my hunch is that they'll be gone in a few years.
Funny how PP4U is strangely absent from this blog, huh? My blog threads are open for anyone to read and respond to, and unless someone is outright cruel or nasty, I leave their posts alone.
Which is more than anyone can say for the likes of PP4U.
You ought to take West's advice and read either of our blogs. Try as you might to find either of us pointing a finger at Oklahoma City or its residents, you will fail in said efforts.
I find it a little disturbing and bias that PP4u allows negative banter on her blog about Seattle, but denies ANYTHING that disbutes or debunks her post, whether it's presented in an harsh or civil manner.
I'd find it disturbing were not completely typical.
A friend of mine who recently moved to Tulsa (2-1/2 years ago) is an avid Seattle Supersonics supporter and fan, and he said a lot of his acquaintances and co-workers in his new, adoptive city, have been eerily quiet about the entire affair - his words were, "It's as if they have their heads as deep in the sand as they can imagine."
The local rags in OKC are also eerily bright and sunny about it all, as well. It's as if they're volunteering for film-watching duty in 'A Clockwork Orange' - they're completely and willfully blind to the circumstances surrounding the Seattle Supersonics moving to Oklahoma City.
That being said, I am anything BUT surprised or disturbed regarding PP4U's inability to allow posts on her blog that don't reflect the same cheery, sunny, head-in-the=sand behavior my friend identifies every day.
It would be sad, but it's too predictable to be so.
I work with a guy from OKC. Very cool individual and he finds this whole situation disheartening(sp). Where as one city has put it's foot down on paying out the backside for sports facilities and folks from elsewhere seeing that as being disloyal. Seattle has traditionally coughed up the money for these things and the one time we don't, we lose the oldest thing we have. Now my co-worker laughs at the Clay Bennett clauses you mentioned, about being able to opt out of his Ford Center lease. And the fact, in all those emails that were presented in the trial, Clay Bennett said that if OKC doesn't work out, Las Vegas is another option. Now I lived in Las Vegas and Mayor Oscar Goodman is a HUGE NBA fan and he is desperately trying to get a basketball team there. Located inbetween Phoenix and LA/San Diego, Vegas is a prime spot for a team.
Once again, the bottom line to this is the old saying "the difference in men and boys is the price of their toys". OKC is not a wealthy city. Tulsa although smaller in size has much more money than OKC.
The University of Oklahoma (OU) is in Norman about 20 miles outside OKC and the area is college crazy, football, basketball and wrestling.
These are dogs and beer people, not latte and nachos. I have serious doubts that OKC will support the NBA team long term unless some winning starts within the first three years. They tend to think an 8-3 season by OU is a losing season. It will be an uphill battle for the team formerly known as the Sonics.
But like I say. Men and boys and the price of their toys.
You said, "These are dogs and beer people, not latte and nachos."
Is that a stereo type my friend? You assume we in Seattle are only known for coffee? Weren't you complaining about how people depict your state? Did you know that the Pacific Northwest is the Micro-Brew Capital of the Nation? Micro-Brew is beer. I quite often enjoy walking across the street from Qwest and Safeco Fields to Pyramid Ale House and Brewery for some BEER. But you know what, I like to drink coffee in the morning. I wonder how many people around the world fit that stereo-type? But no coffee shop sells my preferred coffee of choice. Irish Coffee.
Last edited by WestSeattle on July 8th at 2:17 PM.
The ONLY point I was trying to make about the OKC fans is that they are a rough crowd. Stop being so sensitive. I was actually thinking of the Los Angeles crowd with the "Latte and Nachos" crowd. I wasn't aware that Seattle was a hotbed for Nachos.
I'm sorry, I didn't know I was being sensitive. Maybe I'm just one of those dumb rapper's you mentioned over on ThePurplePrincess4u's blog? You complain about people not reading the facts, like your Tulsa stat. But yet you yourself continuously make blind statements about other folks and their regions. How LA even got into this conversation is beyond me? Was it the fact it was mentioned this nomadic team possibly moving to Las Vegas in the future? So you start taking shots at other folks? Sounds kind of hypocritical to me? Maybe I'm just being sensitive?
Your arguments seem to be simply for argument's sake.
Seattle is not a "latte and nachos" city - my hometown is known for the freshest and most diverse array of seafood on the west coast, competetive sailing, collegiate excellence, the finest microbrews available within thousands of miles, bitter coffee, Microsoft, Nintendo, Boeing, Nordstroms, and myriad other things. Within three hours of downtown Seattle, there is world-class winter skiing, watersports galore, the longest unborken stretch of beach in North America, active and interesting volcanoes, dormant volcanoes, and one of the most beautiful areas of offshore island groups (San Juans).
WTF... why am I giving you my city's resume?
Nevermind all the excesses - it was our team, it was stolen by government complacency and duplicitous individuals, and we have an obligation to be a little bitter about it all.
Oklahoma might be a great place. Wonderful. Good for Oklahomans. Frankly, this is playing out very similarly as the Art Modell-owned Cleveland Browns' move to Baltimore to become the Ravens. It's sickening to witness, and there are far too many hands in the cookie jar for it to not be a matter of collusion between all those involved who hold power.
If the Memphis Grizzlies move to Seattle, I will be openly disgusted with the NBA, David Stern, and everyone involved, and I will not attend or watch one single game.
Seattle deserves a team - its OWN team - and the only way we can have that is via expansion, which is probably 10+ years off at a minimum.
Look, there are 3.8+ million pissed off people in the Seattle area, and rightfully so. there are 1.2+ million people in the OKC area. Which region is better suited to support an NBA franchise?
Anyone who is happy about this move, how it developed, and how it played out in the end ought to be ashamed of themselves - those folks need a good, long, hard look in the mirror.
The franchise was supported until Schultz sold it to Bennett and he gutted the team of its stars and best players (Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen, namely).
Bennett complains about low attendance, but he failed to put a decent product on the court, which is suicide for NBA teams.
And he knew that... which is exactly why he did it.
Put the pieces together, squirt. It ain't that hard.
This whole rapper thing. Between NiqueD comments about the rap culture and ThePurplePrincess4u allowing those comments onto her blog show's their inability to relate to the NBA. The rap or as I call it, Hip-Hop culture is a huge influence in the NBA and it's fan base, both negative and positively. But both NiqueD and TPP4u have just insulted probably half the fan base of the NBA.
And TPP4u deleted my comments.........hypocrites!
Last edited by WestSeattle on July 8th at 3:13 PM.
They won't. They're more interested in hating. It's what about half the bloggers are all about. How much venom they can spit. You'd think they're rappers getting paid for it. (Probably just low I.Q.dropouts who listened to too much rap.)
Tulsa recently was listed as the 9th best city over 50,000 people in the entire country to live. It was all over the internet news. But then they wouldn't know that. Half of them never read anything. Just come to spew hate.
Well I rest my case. You have now just shown your ignorance. Read your post over again without the rapper references and then go look in a mirror. Because you have now just debunked your friend ThePurplePrincess4u's post. Do you know the definition of hypocrite?
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
Last edited by WestSeattle on July 8th at 3:35 PM.
By the way, I see you have Britney Spears on your playlist under your profile. She's a great influence in American Culture, WAY better than someone like "Common", a well known hip-hop artist.
Great post, I'm bummed for Seattle fans. You guys have a great city and did not deserve to have the rug ripped out from under you by the spineless David Stern, for refusing to cater to the financial whims of Clay Bennett.
Its probably of little consolation, but the people of Seattle have my(and any other rational persons) respect and gratitude, for refusing to supply what amounts to ransom money, to yet another member of the "Billionaire Boys Club". These owners fleece the taxpayers out of millions to build shiny new state of the art stadiums,masking their greed in the cloak of "civic pride" Then they turn around and charge fans $100+ ticket prices $40 parking fees, $10 beers, and $5 hotdogs. What do the fans get? A crappy nosebleed seat to watch a team cobbled together by inept managment. This situation flat out sucks. I truly feel sorry for Seattle fans.
rmac,
I expected better of you, someone who usually has such insightful things to say on this thread concerning fans on both sides of the arguement. I am not trying to do the whole 'big brother' thing but I wish you had not let one person's opinion get on your nerves so much and create an entire blog on her behalf when you have stayed so objective throughout this entire debacle. you are better than that
According to history, The Hornets moved to New Oreans because the ower did not get his way to have a new areana built in Charlotte. What I read what owner tried to pull was not pretty. I am to the point building new building for over priced commeties needs to an come an end. It is time for the NBA to pay out of their pockets for what they need, not the local Citizinship. Sports leagues as a whole are raping the common person, and we as fans buy into it. Especially people of the East side of United States. It is time to put our money to better uses then to subsides these money losing ventures.
PS
I have live on both side of the Unted States, and I know how jaded spots fans are East of Rockies can be.
We as fans need to stop fighting each other over this issue. The Villions here are not the States of WA or OK, or any other state or city, for that matter. It is the NBA itself that are the badguys in this issue. Pro sports as a whole has got us, the fans fighting each other. It is Pro sports that are the badguys, not us, the fans. We need to dig deeper to see what they are doing to us, the fans. Because they are most likely are laughing at us and taking it to the bank. And I mean dallors and cent that they making off us the fans with their outragest prices.
To all Oklahomans who keep saying you voted to bring them here. B.S. The vote was to extend a sales tax that had been in place for many years. It was not a vote for the $500 million dollar arena, it was for renovations to the Ford center which last year was up to date. (We are already getting primed for our rape). The other thing is whoever wrote this makes valid points but they are more from the heart, but who cares. I agree with what you say and I dont believe we in OKC will keep them for more than the 5 years you talk about. She(pp4u), does not rep. our city at all as the TRUE NBA fans of Okc. are pissed at the way we got "our" team.
Oh and 1 more thing. Whoever niqued or whatever is saying about Seattle not supporting the team, even this year they had 80% attendance. They have remained one of the highest % teams in the NBA they just did not have enough seats to be one of the top teams in number of people. they filled the arena every night.
rmac1973,
your forgetting David Stern holding Seattle hostage (either you give up or team or I will move it and you will NEVER see a NBA team ever again).
What a gutless coward!!
Signed a Jazz fan (hey Stern, keep yer grubby mitts off my team ya big eared gnome!!)
Don't sweep under the rug refgate in Phoenix. It is more then just moving teams around. Also remember the Jazz first home was New Orleans, and the Grizzlies was Vancouver B. C..
I'm just your average sports nut, I suppose. Of course I'm a bit of a homer - the Mariners, Seahawks, and Huskies are my teams - but I stick with my boys down the stretch, through thick and thin.
What can the Mariners do to right htier ship? How long will Erik Bedard and Carlos Silva be in Seattle? Will Junior come back home for his final years in baseball? What are the Seahawks' chances in 2008 - can they overcome crucial injuries to Branc and Engram long enough to stay atop the NFC West? Does Maurice Morris have the marbles to be a 20-carry back? Will Julius Jones fill the void? Is Jake Locker going to go pro after his sophomore season at UW? Can the Trail Blazers keep improving and make a playoff run in 2008-09? Are the Buckeyes as good as many seem to think?
Any of you folks out there interested in healthy and creative debate about anything, feel free to speak up!
