With an over-emphasized focus on veteran pitching, Seattle Mariners Bill Bavasi has, unfortunately, dug his own grave in the Emerald City.
Signing Free Agent Carlos Silva to a 4-year/$48 million contract and trading young talents Adam Jones and George Sherrill to Baltimore for ace-to-be Erik Bedard were both seen as good moves at the time they were made. Retrospect has proven that the Mariners overpaid for Silva (3-6, 5.96 ERA in 13 starts) and gave up too much (Sherrill - 20 SV, 3.04 ERA; Jones - .256, 3 HR, 24 RBI) for Bedard (4-4, 4.47 ERA in 10 starts), but hindsight is often 20/20.
Nonetheless, bringing in an innings-eater like Silva and trading for a top-tier starter like Bedard should have shored up the starting rotation after the dismissals of Horacio Ramirez and Jeff Weaver, when they proved to be ineffective for most of 2007. For a multitude of reasons, this has not happened.
Mel Stottlemyre was brought in as the new Pitching Coach and was supposed to turn Felix Hernandez into the beast-like youngster everyone thought he would become; Erik Bedard was supposed to flourish under Stottlemyre's tutleage, and Jarrod Washburn and Miguel Batista were giong to be renewed. As of right now, the Mariners have assembled and produced the worst starting five in the major leagues, statistically speaking. With the exception of Hernandez (3.29 ERA), 3 of Seattle's starting five have ERA's of 5.90 or higher; Bedard's ERA rests uncomfortably at 4.47 and he's lasted more than 5 innings in just 6 of his 10 starts. Miguel Batista and Jarrod Washburn are both sporting WHIPs approaching 2.00.
Sadly for the Mariners, new Hitting Coach Jeff Pentland hasn't seen any benefit to his employment, either. Richie Sexson picked up right where he left off from 2007, hovering around the Mendoza line for the first month and a half of the season before beleaguered Manager John McLaren finally saw fit to bench the "Whiff Machine", as he has become known in Seattle. Adrian Beltre, regarded as one of the top Free Agent pickups after he signed with Seattle after his breakout 2004 season in Los Angeles Dodger blue, when he belted 48 round-trippers, drove in 121 baserunners, and hit an uncharacteristic-like .334. Since then, he has averaged (2005-07) just 23 HRs and 92 RBIs for the Mariners. His power numbers look better so far for 2008 (13 HRs thus far, projecting to 35 for the season), but his batting average and OBP have dropped significantly from expectations.
The "Brad Wilkerson Experiment", brought to Seattle by Bavasi, lasted one month before the M's gave him his unconditional release.
Ichiro Suzuki, ever the exemplar of clutch and smart hitting, is batting just .289, over 40 points below his career average. Jose Vidro, Kenji Johjima and Raul Ibanez are all hitting well below pre-season expectations. Only Yuniesky Betancourt and Jose Lopez have improved at the plate from 2007.
One can only draw the following conclusion: the coaching staff for the Mariners must be the most inept and unsuccessful coaching staff in Major League Baseball. Stottlemyre and Pentland were supposed to help improve the players, not assist them into regressions that can simply be described as horrific to witness.
Manager John McLaren, ever the diplomat and often the quiet librarian, erupted into an expletive-filled rant in front of local media after his club was swept in a three-game series by division rival Los Angeles Angels. The purpose for that rant cannot be determined (it should have happened when Seattle was six games out of first place in the AL West, not sixteen), and it had a bit of a "stage" feel to it, as if Bavasi and Team President Chuck Armstrong had pushed McLaren for the outburst.
A three-game series in Fenway Park against the Red Sox begins tonight with Felix Hernandez going for the Mariners. This is a crucial series for the Mariners, because if they cannot muster the team spirit and chemistry Bavasi had hoped would develop when he made his off-season moves, then their back is broken and the downward spiral will continue until the eventual and predictable fire sale of veteran talent takes place.
2009 will bring us a new version of the Seattle Mariners, and while the likeliheood of this season being salvaged to an even .500 record is highly unlikely, a respectable finish and some definitive teamwork will go a long way in allowing those players an opportunity to return the following season. It's a matter of professional integrity, and I sincerely hope these men have it.
rmac... dude... i read this and i agree with most of it.
heres my input, though:
the blasting of sexson and beltre isnt completely necessary. the way i look at it, theyre just plain better at hitting in the national league (which really makes sense... national league pitchers are more power while american seem to be the finessers... hence why the pitching in the al tends to be better). from what i remember of richies stats in cleveland... they really werent all that great. of course, i could be missing a year or two. but when he went to the brewers... he BLEW UP. beltre i dont have as fair a knowledge of when it comes to the teams hes played for. but i know hes been in the majors for something like ten or eleven years and hes spent most of his time in the national league. he developed himself as a fairly solid nl hitter for average over time but then he did have that breakout year a couple years back.
so i dunno. based on my theory, maybe trading sexson to the nl for some hitters who performed better in the al (ahem... TEXEIRA... ahem) may not be a terrible idea. but who knows. i mean richie seems like he could be coming around... knock on wood.
get rid of everyone including management!!! seattle right now is too far gone!!!!! hey when a person, player, owner who ever loses their kool in a short time and nothing gets done???? these players dont give a ratsss behind??? so trade , and kiss the season at this point goodbye
get rid of everyone including management!!! seattle right now is too far gone!!!!! hey when a person, player, owner who ever loses their kool in a short time and nothing gets done???? these players dont give a ratsss behind??? so trade , and kiss the season at this point goodbye
You can't exactly call the additions of Silva and Bedard busts. If you watch the games most of the time they pitch well but have no support from the ice cold M's bats. Imagine if they scored some runs all of a sudden we aren't talking about them not living up to expectations. The pitching is there...the offense and more surprising the defense (I've seen more errors this year then any other year) is not pullinf their weight.
It's possible, and quite likely, that aside from Ichiro and Betancourt the Mariners have a team that's NOT suited for Safeco. As someone stated, both Beltre and Sexson are better suited for the National League.
I hope the Mariners can dig their way out of the tailspin they're in now. Beating Boston last night helps.
I have to disagree with the blaming of the coaches, as well as Adrian Beltre. First of all, major league coaches are nothing more than the manager's drinking buddies. They have little to no effect of a player's actual skills or talents, since most players are set in their ways by the time they are up in the majors, for example, most hitters the Mariners bring in seem to be free hacking, inpatient. Coaches are mostly scapegoats along with the manager if something goes wrong, such as now. It's not McLaren's fault that the team that was provided is so old and crappy. His mismanagement of the bullpen and head scratching line ups he puts out could only cost the the team a few wins at most.
I think you have to recognize there is a trend in the players that the Mariners have on the team. Most of the team are aging veterans with potential (or already reality) of falling off the cliff. Washburn, Batista, Sexson, Vidro, and Johjima are all regressing because of their age. Cairo just sucks in general, and just like Willie Bloomquist, shouldn't be started, especially for multiple games on end. The whole team's philosophy of signing veterans with good personalities in hope for "chemisty" and "clubhouse leadership" is outdated and has proven not to work. The team needs to be cleaned, from top to bottom, with the top being Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong. Neither care too much about winning (just profits) and hire a GM with outdated methods to create a crappy team like he has.
Last edited by seattlefan4321 on June 7th at 5:39 PM.
I do want to also argue your attack on Adrian Beltre. Yes he did have a monster year in 2004, which is the reason the Mariners signed him, but he isn't overpaid. He is at least one of the top 5 AL third basemen (and NO! not for just his defense). His OPS+ (On Base Percentage + Slugging adjusted to the ball park) is 109, where 100 is average, below 100 is bad, above 100 is good. Also, consider the fact that Safeco kills Right-handed power numbers, as the left field walls are way farther than the right field walls. (Hence why Richie also isn't as successful as he could be in other ball parks). His line last year was .276/.319/.482 with an OPS+ of 112, which is decent considering he has no plate discipline. I recommend you blast Jose Vidro, who is a worthless waste of space, with his OPS+ being just 65. 65! From a #### DH! Seriously. Last year he was only good because of people's over reliance on batting average, which most of his hits were bloops or infield hits. First of all, a DH isn't supposed to be a singles hitter. It is the position you fill with a power-hitter. Now that he can no longer hit consistently enough, he is now worthless. DH and 1B are the two easiest positions to fill offensively (since they don't require much to any defensive skill) and they are filled by Jose Vidro and Miguel Cairo!!!! The rest of the league must be laughing their #### off at our stupid team. To be fair, it is a small sample size, being barely over 2 months into the season, but Vidro isn't getting any younger.
Not that it matters since they are no longer in contention, but I recommend moving Reed to LF and Ibanez to DH. Ibanez has made enough defensive errors (including spiking the ball into the ground in NY, that was classic!) to not have a starting outfield job if he was 10 years younger. He is a defensive liability, and it is completely stupid to give Vidro a starting job (at DH!) and continue to have Raul struggle defensively in the OF.
I understand your frustration, I feel the same way, but please don't blame the coaches or Beltre for the team sucking. Beltre is one of our best players (with Ichiro and Felix being the only better players) and probably won't re-sign after he is a free agent. I realize you may not give a #### at first, but after seeing how badly Willie Bloomquist sucks starting at 3rd, I am sure you will miss Beltre plenty. I hope he gets fans that don't treat him so badly like Seattle has.
And also, wtf about drafting a reliever in the first round? Seriously, the one good thing Seattle has been able to do is build a cheap, effective bullpen, then it makes a decision like this? I am not even surprised by the stupid decisions the team makes anymore.
What was McLaren thinking when he decided on the line-up today against Wakefield. Why didn't he load the line-up with contact hitters - Bloomquist, Cairo, Reed, and Burke - in lieu of the free swingers - Beltre, Sexon, Ballentin, and Jojima?! No wonder they have the worst record in baseball!!!
there was a game a couple of games ago, I can't remember which game, because they almost all have the same crappy result. Bottom of the sixth against the Angels. Earlier in the game, they got production from Jose Lopez, and good speed from Betancourt and Ichiro to pull to within one run.
In this inning, two outs, Betancourt on first, they decide to send him on a hit and run, which is successful. Ichiro smacks it into mid left-center, so Betancourt is lucky to get third base.
And what does Sam the Dufus Perlozzo do? Send Betancourt HOME! He's thrown out by a mile and a half. Inning over. So, instead of having Ichiro at first and Betancourt at third with their hottest hitter, Lopez, coming up, they lose their last chance to take the lead in the game.
When you are bottom ten in the majors in any one category (Batting, Pitching, Fielding) you can look with contemptible scorn at the players on the field. When you are in the bottom ten in all three categories, that represents inept management and coaching, as the above example shows. And I think problem number one is that Howard Lincoln, if he has any kind of a mandate from Japan to keep HIS job, should drain Chuck Armstrong out to dry. He's way, way past social security age now. And then rebuild management from there.
If this was a company the entire management and staff would have been s___-canned about a month ago. They are a joke, how many guys even hit around .300 on this inept lineup. They ought to dump Silva to a contender, Boston or N.Y. would be dumb enough to pay him that much. Johjima and his 24mil ought to go in a bundle deal with Sexson. Beltre is like the girlfriend you live with but have despised for years. Get what you can before it's too late, like maybe a 4th round pick in 2012. Their 1st base, 3rd base and DH production reminds me of being on my old M Electric minor league baseball team back in the 70's in Shelton. Lastly, I'd rather see Dickey and Morrow as starters and Clement behind the plate than these overpaid lazy f-holes. Maybe Clay Bennett would leave the Sonics and take our M's... please?
The A's moves this year really make the M's front office look bad. Can the M's talent evaluation be that bad?
Really poor bat productivity when you see something like 1 run in 9 opportunities in run scoring productivity. Agree the Ibanez would be better as DH. Definitely need to get some power at 1B and at least one of the OF spots. I think the pitching is there and would be a lot more effective if they know the team will get some runs for them. Aren't there any hitters in the farm system?
At this stage wholesale changes sound good, but would hurt in the long run. Get a stick at 1B and OF, and bring in a hungry veteran like Lofton to wake up the rest of the guys. If Lou were still around you can bet some water coolers and ar.ses would be on the end of his foot.
From 2000-2004 Seattle drafted in the first two rounds Rene Rivera, John Mayberry (who opted for college), Josh Womack and Jeffrey Flaig. Mayberry was the lone 1st rounder. In the same time-frame we signed on-base nightmares Richie Sexson and Adriene Beltre, one coming off serious injury, the other off a "pumped up" career year. I believe the Mariners simply cannot judge talent, nor manage a minor league system. The only .300 hitter we've developed in the last twenty years, who wasn't a guaranteed All-Star like Griffey or Arod, was Edgar Martinez. Our prized pitching prospects wash-up early: Clint Negotte, Travis Blackley, Ryan Anderson, Joel Pineiro, to name a few. Our scouting and drafting is bottom drawer. Another problem is our coaching. Bedard and Silva are quality pitchers drug down in the Maclaren-induced funk. Maclaren made so many poor decisions in the first month and a half of the season that the team lost faith in him. I've read a few comments in this blog that state a manager is a scapegoat when his team loses, and it's the players who win or lose. I disagree. The manager sets the tone of the dugout, and instills faith in his decision making abilities by moving players around and calling for plays on the field based on his experience. Maclaren lost 5-10 games in the first thirty because of his bad decisions. Hit and runs when we should be stealing, pulling Felix when he's rolling, Eric O'flunky's blown saves... Maclaren is to blame. It gets better from 2009 on, but it starts with a new manager, a new GM, and a FIRE SALE FOR THE AGES!
Beltre isn't bad! I don't get it. He leads the team in Home Runs this year with 13. That isn't saying much because the rest "the power" on the team are crippled veterans. I don't understand how you expect Beltre to put up 2004 numbers every single year after signing with the Mariners. He should've been signed because he is a young, talented 3rd basemen with a good glove and good bat. Not because of his 2004 year. You guys are idiots for thinking Beltre could repeat 2004 numbers every year in a home park that kills right handed power. He is worth every penny the Mariners are paying him, and I understand why he doesn't want to re-sign with the Mariners, not only because management is inept, but also have bafoons for fans who think he is no good because he can't put up career year numbers every season. Jeez, not even A-rod could put up those numbers every year and no one is saying he sucks.
I feel so bad! I feel so sad! Seattle has another losing team? Well, Seattle always has the Seattle #### Parade and the Freemont Pot Parade to fall back on as most of the people in Seattle are too out of it to know what it takes to have ethical and moral back bone to field a good team.
Beltre is lame. He may be one of the better offensive players on the team, but for what he should or could or we hoped he would be (and paid for) he is downright subpar. To suggest the fans make him uncomfortable and that he will not resign because of their treatment of him is ridiculous. He gets way more love than he's ever deserved in this town. We paid him to be an All*Star type player, maybe not MVP, but a guy we can depend on in the 3-hole to knock in runs and anchor the line-up. We got a number 7 hitter. We paid big bucks for a glove man with a confidence problem and a knack for the anti-clutch. And the look on his face as he struggles: so painful and uncertain. He looks awkward out there. He looks like he's waiting for his teammates to yell at him.
I'm not suggesting he has no value. He's filling a hole, and I dread whom would take over at 3B if we moved him. Maybe we can trade for Ian Stewart. Any ideas for replacements?
This team isnt going to win. they dont have the spark like last year. If i owned the team i would go to the press and say today i start rebuilding. taking offers on everyone except Beltre Balentien and Jose Lopez. The only reason I keep Beltre is because i dont have a 3rd baseman im ready to bring up from the minors yet. ill take 5 players for Ichiro. maybe 3 for Raul. Then i would also put Bedard on the block while he still has trade value. The team is not coming back to win at this point anyway. and if they #### k this bad with the talent they got they aint gettin any better next year so s crew it. time to start over and rebuild. and oh yeah bill bavasi your fired. hargrove your fired. and mel your fired.....how about this all coaching staff is fired. got to start over there too. Mariner Moose your fired. guy that runs the garlic fries stand your fired too.
rudolf1 - you got evidence to back up your claim? Please don't use Batting Average or RBIs. Batting Average tells very little about the quality of hitting and RBI is a team stat disguised as an individual's stat.
The Ms have that fat thief Carlos Silva signed for 4 years! And he stole $ 48 Million with his 81 mph fast ball. That one signing alone should get the whole front office dismessed. The Ms cried last year about paying Weaver $ 8 Million. That was just a one year contract. We are stuck with Silva for 4 years! He gets $ 48 Million!!!!!
Gladly. Without stating BA or RBI, Beltre has regressed in certain areas and failed to improve in other areas, namely K/BB ratio and home runs.
I believe the Mariners inked the premium contract with Beltre because he was 25 and coming off the "breakout year".
In 2000, at age 21, Beltre hit .290 with moderate power. This "signified" he was on his way to becoming a monster at the plate, according to baseball pundits-- he signed his MLB contract at 16.
Over the next three seasons, Beltre proved to be a slow starter who could finish the season in a flurry of power. Many dreamed of what he could accomplish if he could extend his streak to an entire season. I know this because I lived in LA and watched the guy play through these years. I covered the dodgers for ESPN fantasy baseball from 2001-2004. Adriene Beltre was lovingly referred to as BeltrAAA.
When he erupted in 2004, I couldn't believe my eyes. Seriously, I didn't believe it could continue. But it did. He finally put together that monster season, and if it weren't for bonds, he was easily the MVP. The crazy part was he did it with bone spurs in his ankle and swung the bat in pain all season. He would twist up and grimace after each mammoth swing as the ball sailed out to opposite field. I personally believe he was on steroids in a contract year. No evidence to back that up.
The Mariners and other possible suitors assumed this was the breakout everyone was waiting for, and at age 25 Beltre was on the rise to stardom-- It is understood that most young players hit their prime around age 25 and it continues into the early thirties.
The problem is, Beltre hasn't had a prime. Blame the ballpark, blame the boring fans, blame the climate, blame his teammates or coaching or whatever... he hasn't improved in many areas. His total bases are up because his doubles are up. His steals are up, but only because Coach Tracy in LA feared the stolen base like a big greasy spider.
His home runs are up a tick, but this is a guy who's been in his prime years since Seattle picked him up. He can't reach 30 home runs? Come on. Ibanez hit thirty homers.
His BB/K rate is down, and it's not because he's taking less walks. He's never taken many walks, maybe 45 a year. Beltre has slipped from a 2.0/1 BB/K rate to a 2.5/1 rate. He strikes out over a hundred times a year, and is on pace to do so again this year. So he hits a handful of extra dingers by striking out a little more. Makes sense.
RBIs should count a little, though. This guy has been put in good position to knock in runs, and from what I've seen, he wiffs or flies out most every time. Look at his RBIs to HRs this year. He only hits solo shots. NO CLUTCH.
Bottom line is we paid for a guy on the rise, and Beltre had no yeast. Have you ever heard of a precocious talent who delivers a season for the ages only to end up having no prime?? I have. His name is Adriene. Johnny Cash should have sung a song about a boy named Adriene, too.
How can we not be disappointed in a guy who hasn't developed plate discipline or increased his power output simply by getting stronger and more experienced. We paid him to improve. He hasn't. His contract dollars go up every year and he doesn't get much better. Jose Guillen hits better and he's a journeyman.
If he would resign a substantially reduced contract, I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him and batting him seventh. His glove is worth his relative ineptitude at the plate.
Jeff Pentland was fired today, and the probability that Stottlemyre and McLaren are out the door within a month is pretty high.
They're all pretty smart "baseball guys", they're just in a bad spot with this club and almost nothing they have done or changed with the players has amounted to anything positive - the team has actually regressed in every aspect: hitting, pitching, defense.
Losing Chuck Armstrong and Bill Bavasi wouldn't hurt, either, but that will be an off-season thing.
I'm just your average sports nut, I suppose. Of course I'm a bit of a homer - the Mariners, Seahawks, and Huskies are my teams - but I stick with my boys down the stretch, through thick and thin.
What can the Mariners do to rebound from their worst season in twent years? Will Erik Bedard recover in time for the 2009 season? Ryan Rowland-Smith and Brandon Morrow look to make the transition from the bullpen to the starting rotation, so can they combine with Felix to create a young and effective 1-2-3 tandem? How will the M's new front office guru fare - will Chuckie and Howie be able to stay "hands off" long enough for the new VP/GM to accomplish anything positive? Can the Seahawks recover from their early-season woes and rebound for a fifth straight NFC West title? How will the team handle the transition from Mike Holmgren's regime to the ways of Jim Mora Jr? Can the Hawks' defense stop anyone? Can the offense put up more than 200 yards?
Any of you folks out there interested in healthy and creative debate about anything, feel free to speak up!
