What’s that saying again? I think it goes…every party has a #### that’s why they invited you. Or is it…someone always wants to rain on the parade? Seems to me that some people are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Take Roger Clemens for example. The Rocket has elevated modern pitching to heights from the distant past... he has aged as gracefully as fine wine and cheese…yet for many cheesy whiners he simply serves as a target of unjustified resentment.
Last night Roger Clemens won his 350th game by pitching 8 innings of 2-hit ball to beat the Minnesota Twins. At the tender age of 44, Roger is showing that he continues to be better than most pitchers half his age. He doesn't throw quite as hard as he once did. Then again if he did people might start accusing him of using steroids without having any real evidence to support their claims.In a moment where praise should belaudedupon himfor his body of work, we find more fans lining up to hurl criticisms at the greatest pitcher of this generation. Actually make that two generations since he dominated the materialistic minded Big 80s as well as the Generation X 90s. If he manages to pitch until 2010 he’ll be able to boast having chucked heaters in four different decades.
It seems like just yesterday when former Boston Red Sox general manager Dan Duquette provided us with some tiny pearls of wisdom. Way back in the fall of 1996 he uttered these famous words: “We see Roger Clemens as a pitcher in the twilight of his career.” They do say that hindsight is 20:20 but history clearly proved that Mr. Duquette was either a blithering #### or came from outer space. My guess would be that Dan is actually from Jupiter, where it takes 11 Earth years to travel around the sun…or approximately the same length of time that has passed from his dubious statement until now.
After being run out of Boston, the former 3-time Cy Young Award winner signed with the Toronto Blue Jays for 2 seasons, then played with the Yankees for 5 more and finally headed home to Texas where he spent 3 years with the Houston Astros. 4 Cy Young Awards, 158 wins, 2,040 strikeouts, 5 World Series appearances, and 2 Championships later…maybeRoger is finally approaching twilight as Dan Duquette watches on from the largest planet in our solar system.
Which begs these questions: 1) Why do so many dislike the best pitcher that most of us have ever seen? 2) What is wrong with some people in America? (Perhaps Duquette brought them all here with him.)Every reason I have come across is riddled with utter nonsense, hypocrisy or both. .
The “Roger Is A Mercenary” Theory: Not to get all Yoda with people who feel this way but whenRoger’s age you reach…waste your time you will notwish to do. The man will turn 45 years old exactly one month from tomorrow. He has been pitching since 1984. He's started 695 baseball games not including the post-season. If he can pick and choose where he wants to play then so be it. He’s earned it. Robert DeNiro, Tom Hanks and Denzell Washington don’t have to audition for B-movies. Just sit back, relax and enjoy. Like rapper Main Source once said, “Watch Roger Do His Thing”... for just a little while longer anyway.
The “He's Overpaid” Excuse: Why does anyone care how much money Roger is making (Even if it is a rather fetching prorated wage of $28 million dollars this year)? In my humble opinion middle relievers who make $5 million dollars a year pitching mop up duty are pretty overpaid too. It’s George Steinbrenner’s money and he still has a lot left over. Check that…it’s Roger’s money now and he’d still have plenty if he were sitting at home. Would you have told Big George no thanks? Didn’t think so. Besides, what do truckloads of cash have to do with a legend winning his 350th game? Nothing unless you’re jealous…and last I checked he’s not robbing any of us.
The “Who Does He Think He Is?” Club: Let’s approach this logically instead of with the all too popular knee-jerk reaction of the day. Roger does not want to go to spring training or pitch in the beginning of the season. Many view this as his way of saying that he is “above” the rest of the players on the team. Well, other than the fact that he is Roger Clemens and that thousands of extra fannies pack stadiums on days he pitches…he’s worth no more than anyone else (Ha Ha). The reality is that during his last full season in 2005, his aging body finally betrayed him. Roger had been losing steam down the stretch and his hamstrings finally gave out when his team needed him most. Unfortunately he had be lifted after just 2 innings of painful and ineffective work during Game 1 of the World Series against the White Sox. Roger did not pitch again in the series. The Astros were swept 4 straight despite being outscored by only 6 runs total. Now you tell me…Would you want Clemens feeling fresh in spring training and April/May or would you want him feeling fresh in the post-season? (please refrain from any "the Yankees won’t be in the post-season smack" for that is not the point) Clemens is a competitor and only he knows his body's current capabilities the best.
No matter how people feel about Roger (and the Yankees) the criticism of his motives to play are asinine. He’s just doing what he's always done. That would be pitch baseball games and make absurd amounts of cash. If you have a problem with that then you should have a problem with all the younger athletes who play with far less passion than Roger and for all the wrong reasons. Unfortunately it seems that so many of us save our ire only for the cream of the crop and the lowest of the low…in other words for superstars who do not kowtow to our way of thinking and “thugs” we cannot relate to.
Roger just won his 350th game. Let’s appreciate the fact that we got to see it and now have something else to tell our grandchildren about some day. Although it sometimes feels that way, it won't last forever. It’s been 44 years since the great Warren Spahn last won this many. The same 44 years that Roger Clemens has been breathing air on Earth. Coincidence? Who knows? Just don’t ask Dan Duquette what he thinks. He’s only had 1"Jupiter year" to ponder his blunder back on the mother world.
Fans calling me fat and greedy after a losing season, where I was not in the best of shape, would certainly make me want to stay. Especially considering the whole "twilight of his career" statement from Danny D.
Being run out might be a "bit" strong if you want to argue semantics. Being publically insulted by your GM is definitely grounds to move on elsewhere.
Just my opinion. And remember...he initially spurned the Yankees the first chance. I am not exactly Roger's biggest fan but I appreciate what I am witnessing.
P.S.---I am actually very interested to hear your take on it come to think about it. I've never actually discussed Roger leaving Beantown with an official member. Enlighten me please.
i hate him. when he left boston he was fat and out of shape and seemed like he didn't care. his las 4 yrs in bos: 11-14, 9-7, 10-5 and 10-13. hardly a world beater. says the only place he'd play other than boston was texas or hous. certainly not the al east. definitely not the yankees. then he goes to toronto and decides he wants to get his fat #### in shape all of a sudden. it was a slap in the face to all boston fans.
Josh Q---I feel your pain. I do understand why you might hate him and as far as I am concerned only BoSox fans have anything resembling a reason to. I remember from Frank's show that you work for Elias? You should like this.
From 1993-1996 (Those 4 years you mentioned I came across the following stats:
40 wins-39 losses 3.78 ERA (League average ERA 4.92) Still pretty darn good.
743 innings pitched and 717 strikeouts (8.6 K per 9 innings) 4th best in the majors during that time
1996 (last year in Boston) = 257 Ks and 9.53 Ks per 9 innings which were both AL tops
1994 = 2nd in AL ERA 1996 = 5th in AL ERA
1994 = 1st in AL hits per 9 innings and 2nd in 1996
WHIP rate was top 10 in each of his last 4 Boston years.
I wish I could claim these stats but I came across them looking up info. I found them in this article. It was an interesting bash on Duquette. I did check them for accuracy and they seem to balance out correctly.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ten_Years_A go__Roger_Clemens_Was_Supposed_to_b e_a_Pitcher_in_The_Twilight_of_His_ Career
Now correct me if I am wrong but Roger missed several starts during those years and battled some injuries. Whether or not they tied in to being out of shape, only Roger knows. Also the Red Sox teams of that time period were pretty bad. I'd imagine he lost many games he could have won with a better team. I do not think it's fair to say he "did not care".
He may have slapped Boston in the face but it still sounded to me like he was slapped in the face first by Duquette and maybe even the Boston fans.
slshusker---I get a kick out of that term too. It's still the same amount of money no matter which way you slice it. They can break it down to the hour for all I care. It's more cash than you or I could count although I would love to try.
That word ain't the only thing the media runs with either. They'd run with anything to their "pottery wheel" in order to try and shape it into something it probably isn't.
And then we eat it all up like dogs with a fresh bowl of Alpo Deluxe.
Thanks for stopping by. Love the new avatar. That dog's laugh cracks me up. What was his name again? Smedley?
Nope...now I remember it was #### Dastardly's dog Muttley! Classic.
I've never been a Clemens fan, but I also respect his talent...as well as his contributions to the sport. I think the reason I don't care for him was the whole head-hunter intimidation mentality. I remember back in the day, he would openly talk about throwing at batters on purpose...almost like that made him a tough guy.
I find that sort of cowardly, especially for an American League pitcher that doesn't have to step up to the plate. But that isn't limited just to Clemens, I would feel the same way about any pitcher with that attitude.
Other than that, like I said...I respect his skills and career longevity. His continued success defies logic, and he will always be remembered as one of the sport's great hurlers.
As for milestones, I really don't care who does or doesn't break them. A lot of people seem to care too much about that...only wanting to see "likeable" athletes break those records. I think if someone reaches a milestone or breaks a record, then they probably deserved it...and also deserve a little appreciation, too.
Ok,I'll confess. I've snapped back at least once "well if Bonds has to have done steroids doesn't it follow that Roger must have done them as well?". At the same time that was just a knee jerk reaction. I have no reason to assume Roger did steroids. As for all the rest of it? If someone thinks they're making money by letting him have his way about not going on the road when he's not piching, etc, then more power to him. They wouldn't be doing this if they weren't making money off of him. It is a business after all.
Shooter---The head hunter thing makes him even more of a throwback. The man really pitched/pitches like he was from a different era. Then again I'm getting old too and the 1980s don't resemble 2007 all that much either. I do miss those spandex wearing, big hair-do chics from all those MTV videos though. I still remember when MTV actually played music.
I hear your complaint and you know what? That is probably one of the most plausible reasons I have heard as to why to dislike Roger. I used to dislike him for 2 reasons. First of all he played for Boston. Second of all he went to Toronto even though Steinbrenner offered him more money. At least Roger had the decency not to go straight to the Yankees and really spite Duquette and his former fans. Nobody ever seems to remember that.
If you ask me though Pedro was a worse head hunter (although the beaning of Piazza by Clemens was one of the scariest I have ever seen). I don't think they ever mean to actually hit someone in the head but when you play inside to begin with you're messing with danger.
Thanks Shooter and good to see your post. It seems like it had been awhile.
Dusty---I understand why you would say something like that. The way you said it was different from the critics/attackers. You were simply using that as an "example" of the blind double standard people have when discussing Barry Bonds. If we can make assumptions about one player we can make assumptions about anyone. No need to confess. You were just making a point and a valid one.
I bet they do some type of cost-analysis with Roger. Sure he makes all that loot but if attendance goes up just an average of 5,000 fans whenever he pitches, that definitely helps to recoup some salary losses when you factor in ticket sales, vending, parking and souveniers. Yankees games are not cheap. Besides it's all funny money after all. Like you said it's a business and the Yankees, win or lose, rake in cash.
ian2813---With all due respect that is one really bad reason. I'm not meaning this as an insult either.
For example I cannot stand the Red Sox but "like" David Ortiz and Manny.
I could not stand the good Mets team of the 80s but enjoyed watching Len Dykstra and Howard Johnson.
Clemens may be on the Yankees but you are watching one of the best ever. At this point in his career he is on a different plane than the rest of the players.
I hope he sticks around playing partial seasons and makes a run at #3 on the all-times win list.
Even if he decided to end his days with the Red Sox.
Hey Josh Q---If you come back and check the blog let me know what you think about Roger's overall body of work during those 4 years. I also have a few questions for you.
1) Would you accept Roger back if he decided to pitch for the Red Sox a year or two down the line and finish it up where it all started and become the all time Boston wins leader?
2) Do you think he really should have stayed after the Duquette comments?
3) Do you place ANY blame with the fans treatment of Roger or was it just a beef between him and management?
Seriously I want to know from an insider (ie. a big Red Sox fan).
riv i would not want him back. aside from him not being worth the dough, the feelings just run too deep. yes duquette said those things but that was in the heat of negotiations. negotiations in which fat greedy roger was being unreasonable. i remember roger getting killed by dave stewart time and time again when it mattered. i remember roger getting thrown out of a must win playoff game. i remember roger begging out of a world series game. yes he got himself back in shape and turned things around. but for me, i ask, why didnt you do that when you were here.
and you have to understand, this guy was on the same pedastel as ted williams. the same pedastel as larry bird. the same pedastel as bobby orr. his fall from grace was ASTROnomical. for that to happen you must have really f'd up.
Marty---Reaching? The only thing I'll be reaching for is a cold one in about 1/2 an hour.
Just kidding so chuckle right back at ya. I remember your take on Roger from some time back. I think you fall into the he's an arrogant, egotistical #### if I remember correctly. You could be right. Seems meatheads are often the ones making history. I happen to like watching history though.
Have a great 4th of July. Thanks for keeping on reading.
Josh Q---I'll have to take your word on getting killed by Dave Stewart. Back in the day he was among the best in the league when the A's were making their run in the late 1980s. For about 5 years he was top notch but I wouldn't put him in Roger's league.
I remember Roger getting tossed from the playoff game. I agree with you...gotta keep your cool.
I also remember him "begging" out of the World Series game but wasn't that in 1986? Ten years went by before Duquette's statement. That's a long time.
He got himself out of top shape in the early/mid 90s but those stats showed he was still among the best even though he wasn't at his best. Tells how good he really was. Although lots of athletes have been written off too early this is possibly the worst example of judging what someone had left in the tank.
I take it that when fat, greedy Roger was being unreasonable...that means he was asking for more money than Boston wanted to give him. Even if Duquette said things in the "heat" of negotiations,his words were poorly chosen. Maybe its the Yankees fan in me but to me Roger was insulted and backed into a corner. Going to division rivals was how he responded in kind to Duquette.
I can see how his former fans would be angered by it. Which begs the question: Just what do athletes owe their fans? The answers would run the gamut depending on the individual.
Jo....I agree, I AM jealous of Steinbrenner's abilty to pay ungodly amounts of money for great talent. I don't hate Clemens for that...if you can get it, go for it. I think he's a remarkable pitcher and at 44 years old, is proving that baseball can keep you young.\\
Lisa---As you know I love the Yankees and even I'm a jealous of Steinbrenner's cash. And to think...he tried to buy the Cleveland Indians first back in the 70s. He was into shipping on the Great Lakes in Ohio and wanted to buy the Tribe. It was shot down and the rest is history. To think...the Evil Empire almost never made it to Yankeesland.
As for Clemens, he sure is living the life. Nothing but Kudos for him there.
rivjo, That's why Duquette will always be playing second fiddle to Theo Epstein. Duquette's overall knowledge of the game could be written on the back of a first class stamp and be posted to Timbuktu as far as most Red Sox fans are concerned. We all know where the real power lies within that organisation. And it ain't with Duquette as the hierarchy knows that he's a buffoon !
As for "Rocket" let him keep on doing what he'd been doin' as the restof that Yankee pitching staff will never be his equal. As it is he's the one spark besides Ming Wan that they can really count on.
I've a new post up under the rampant guise titled The Dark Days Of Summer Are Upon Us And There's Nothing To Write About Is There ?
Let me know what you think as to the content ?
Nice post, rivjo. Honestly, I don't have any strong feelings either way about Clemens-except when I hear someone call him "the greatest right hander of all time"-but I'm sure a lot of the animosity towards him comes from him being a Yankee. Like Notre Dame the Dallas Cowboys, the Yanks are in that love 'em or hate 'em category.
My only concern would be a precedent being set by his part-time status. How long will it be before that becomes more common?
Great Post! I can understand why Sox fans are upset if he indeed did not care much his last few years in Boston. However, during a time when we may or may not be seeing "artificial" history being made, Roger has done things most of us have never seen in baseball. I made my 5 year old watch his last game because I want to be able to tell him in a few years that he was able to watch Roger pitch, though not live. I am not a Yankees or Sox fan, but I do respect what both clubs have accomplished and the history they represent. I have even had access to sportswriters at the NSSA convention held in my town every year. Most of them HATE Roger because apparently he is very arrogant. Even most of them say he is one of the best ever....EVER. As far as the money goes, who would turn it down? Great Star Wars reference as well!
steelerfan---Hey buddy. Thanks for the read. You are so right. People do need to just accept things the way they are and show some love. If not at least a lil' respect and appreciation.
husker---If I am correct Muttley provided plenty of comic relief for the "Really Rottens" team on the infamous 1970s Saturday morning cartoon "The Laff-O-lympics". Man I loved that show as a kid.
The other teams were the Scooby-Doobies (hee-hee) and the Yogi-Yahooies. Man I'm getting old.
ramp---The D in Duquette stands for ####. Although in fairness to him he did bring in some good players too during his tenure. However his mistakes were far too memorable and will always overshadow the positive that he did. It's a cross he will bear forever.
All credit due to Roger whether people hate him, love him or are neutral. You cannot knock the man's accomplishments.
ricko---The hate Roger because he's a Yankee thing is for morons.(not that you do) Just my opinion. For example, I hated the dominant Cowboys "teams" of the 90s but I had absolutely nothing against the individuals of Aikman, Smith and most others. The only one I didn't really like was Michael Irvin.
Same thing with any other club. There are teams I do not like on the group level but I rate all players as individuals too.
I understand the precedent question you posed. I guess somebody would have to be good enough and still playing at an advanced age to make it an issue again. I think that if Roger was still in his 30s this would not be allowed.
Chances are that not many others will be both good enough AND old enough to make this a major issue. It could happen again for sure but I do not think it will ever be common. Good point though.
joeduke---First and foremost thanks for taking the time to visit my blog. I appreciate seeing new readers very much and am glad you enjoyed the piece.
I love the fact that you had your 5 year old watch the game. It sounds like you will raise a true sports fan. He will thank you one day for things like this. Hopefully he will remember Clemens too. Although I am still young (35) I have seen enough sports where I can already reflect on many memories. It helps to keep things in perspective.
As for Roger, the arrogance does not surprise me. Some would say that it might be very hard to become one of the greatest ever without some arrogance. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but even those players who come across as "humble" are probably a bit arrogant themselves inside. You have to have confidence in your ability to be successful. Some are just better at demonstrating it more appropriately.
Glad you appreciated the Star Wars reference. Yoda definitely had a way with words.
rivjo, You've got to admit now that its' time for Torre to step down once the season is over. He's got about as much as he can get out of this team. He's not been the disappointment but it's the fialure of the team that've nit been executing in a timely fashion. It's as if they're learning the game from a starting point all over again. Too many players have underperformed and are being overpaid for their services. Both Cashamn and Torre ought to do the honorable thing and resign at the end of the season. They'll not be faulted if they do such a thing.
But if they continure to stay they'll be more voiciferous fans baying for their blood.
Ramp---If you remember I've been howling for Torre's blood since last year my brother.
Figuratively speaking of course.
I think Cashman's mistakes have caught up with him. Pitchers by the name of Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright, Carl Pavano, and Kei Igawa are damning evidence.
I think from a lineup perspective he has done somewhat better. The most glaring mistake was not getting Carlos Beltran and then one year later overpaying for Johnny Damon.
Change is good. It's not about assigning blame to individuals and how much. It's simply about change.
Blame is shared amongst all and that includes the players. You just can't fire the whole team.
This is the last year for Torre no matter what and very likely for Cashman. Only a huge 2nd half can save Cashman now. Torre will step aside regardless.
rivjo, I remember you saying that from some time ago. And for all of the faults of Cashman. It's beyond me how Steinbrenner has put up with all of this for so long.
I know for sure that after this season both will have to go. I can see Girardi taking over as coach of the team if not Mattingly. Or it could be Mattingly in n the GM position with Girardi as coach. I can see them making a really good tandem.
As for the roster there's liable to be some upheaval for sure. There's the uncertainty of Giambi's situation and the roster that's getting old and the less than expected production from some of the team's so called star players.
For want of a better word it's time once again time to clean house !
rampant'
Last edited by rampantfanatic on July 7th at 7:00 AM.
Hey rivjo, The Sawx fan in me agrees with Josh on all fronts. But the Baseball lover in me knows that Clemens is one of the TOP 5 pitchers of all time. Clemens is going to be real miffed when he goes into Cooperstown in a Red Sox cap.
ramp---I think Big George is just getting old and not even close to being as active as he once once. I do not know if I pine for the good old days with him but I do think this "softer" version has let things go to far.
The roster definitely needs some change. I would prefer to see Joe Girardi in charge of the team. I like his hard nosed style.
As for personnel, I heard they just signed 2 star players from China. They have had a good experience with Chien MIng Wang so hopefully their scouts know what they are talking about.
Rev---I think the Hall of Fame will try and make Roger go in as a Red Sox since he won the most games for them. Then again it would not surprise me to see Clemens get into a pissing match with them.
socrates---Hey man. So very nice to see you around. I agree with you on Roger. Like I told Rev an arguement between Roger and the Hall would make for a great story.
Clemens is definitely one of the all-time greats. I do understand how Sox fans are bitter even if I think he was justified in leaving and going where ever the heck he wanted.
I'm a special ed teacher by trade. Funny, I spend my day wanting to say shut-up to people and then do the same here. Just can't seem to. That would be rude and most uncivilized.
I like to write and never met a thought I couldn't continue. My blogs, like this bio, tend to be far too long. I can admit it. If you make it to the end of one of my "essays" there's usually a message that could have been written in half the time by a better writer than me.
Did I mention I was a finalist in NGS II? No really I was, further proving that theyll let anyone in this place. I came in 10th, which is better than 16th I guess. Other than winning the 4th grade graduation writing award it was the biggest literary accomplishmen t of my life. I still haven't gotten used to being famous.
as he once did. Then again if he did people might start accusing him of using steroids without having any real evidence to support their claims. In a moment where praise should be lauded upon him for his body of work, we find more fans lining up to hurl criticisms at the greatest pitcher of this generation. Actually make that two generations since he dominated the materialistic minded Big 80s as well as the Generation X 90s. If he manages to pitch until 2010 he’ll be able to boast having chucked heaters in four different decades. 
Awards, 158 wins, 2,040 strikeouts, 5 World Series appearances, and 2 Championships later…maybe Roger is finally approaching twilight as Dan Duquette watches on from the largest planet in our solar system.
He’s earned it. Robert DeNiro, Tom Hanks and Denzell Washington don’t have to audition for B-movies. Just sit back, relax and enjoy. Like rapper Main Source once said, “Watch Roger Do His Thing”... for just a little while longer anyway.
stadiums on days he pitches…he’s worth no more than anyone else (Ha Ha). The reality is that during his last full season in 2005, his aging body finally betrayed him. Roger had been losing steam down the stretch and his hamstrings finally gave out when his team needed him most. Unfortunately he had be lifted after just 2 innings of painful and ineffective work during Game 1 of the World Series against the White Sox. Roger did not pitch again in the series. The Astros were swept 4 straight despite being outscored by only 6 runs total. Now you tell me…Would you want Clemens feeling fresh in spring training and April/May or would you want him feeling fresh in the post-season? (please refrain from any "the Yankees won’t be in the post-season smack" for that is not the point) Clemens is a competitor and only he knows his body's current capabilities the best.
