Over the last several months I have witnessed over the message boards a constant barrage of Patriots hating. The number of comments on every story have reached into the thousands and irrational statements have been made on both sides. However, with this time I would like to put this into a reasonable perspective, and defend the Patriots recent run.
The Patriots broke the NFL Rules, and have been penalized sufficiently for their actions. So why is this still a front page story? Is this scandal really as big as steroids or gambling in sports? The answer is no and here is why. When the Pats videotaped other teams defensive signals from an onfield camera, essentially they were trying to simplify a practice already used by many teams. Any team can videotape or look at signals from the coaches box. Many teams have coaches sit in the box with binoculars taking notes on the oppsing teams defensive signals. So basically the Patriots tried to obtain a better view to improve upon this practice.
Also, nobody gains all that much from stealing signals. The reality of it is that the defense does not call its plays until after the offense sends in its formation, so somebody would have to recognize the signal relay it to BB, who would then relay it to Tom Brady inside the huddle, they would need to choose a play to exploit this, and design a protection scheme all inside the 45 second play clock. Plus many of the signals can be figured out just by reading the defense. Like the type of coverage based on the corners and safties positioning, and if a blitz is coming by the defense showing the blitz. The Patriots proved that this year by making the same kind of adjustments like everyone else in the league without the use of a videotape.
Along with being useless in the first half of games, stealing signals does not help you in later games because teams change their defensive signals on a week to week basis, because they are aware other teams are stealing their signals.
While changing the position of their cameras is against the rules, many teams have little tricks they pull to win football games. It is alleged that the Colts pump in artificial crowd noise into the RCA dome. The Miami Dolphins turn on the heat in the visitors locker room. The Oakland Raiders bus in convicts into their stands to scare opposing teams players, jk. The Broncos teams won superbowls despite being over the cap. Those are only some of the ones we know about.
Anybody who is accusing that the Patriots' Super Bowl victories are tainted need to go back and rewatch those playoff games. They won with their defense and special teams. In the Super Bowl against the Rams the Patriots had an interception for a touchdown and a touchdown in the 1st half. Plus the field goal they scored was in the hurryup offense where you don't have time to steal signals. The Panthers Superbowl the Patriots won because they were a far better team, and the Eagles Superbowl the Pats won because DM was tired and couldn't win the game for them.
So in light of all this all I am asking for is to close the book on spygate unless more information comes through. If it is true that the Pats somehow taped the Rams walkthrough I will be the 1st one calling for BB to be fired. However, what is done is done. We have more interesting stories to be paying attention to. Like the greatest upset in SB history which is being almost ignored. Plus the draft is 2 months away, and 31 teams are looking to make the next step. I understand the outrage, but for the love of god please move on.
You used common sense? COMMON SENSE!!!??? How dare you! This subject is only for those who prefer sensationalism and chest thumping along with a dash of idiocy!
Good post, patsrock. I already threw Willie Gary (a scrub WR on the Rams team that lost to the Patriots in Super Bowl 36) under the bus for clogging our already overcrowded legal system with another frivolous lawsuit. As far as I'm concerned, Spygate is OVER.
The REAL problem I have is government overstepping its bounds and inserting its big nose into professional sports. Particularly power-mad senators like Arlen Specter who have nothing better to do.
in my opinion why they still blab about it???? they hate them like a disease!!!! its like a over used joke??? why did the chicken cross the road?????? to get to the other side!!!!!
its like a over used joke.... they have to dig up all the bad things becasue they hate them!!!! why thye got beat in the super bowl becasue they didnt score enough points!!!!!
How original! A Patriot fan telling the world that Spygate is overblown! I hope noone steals your thunder on that one!
When the Mitchell report came out, Red Sox fans spent days wanting to tar and feather the Yankees for having steroid guys on their championship rosters. But when Rodney Harrison of their beloved Pats is busted for HGH by the league, it's no big deal.
When their coach Hoodie gets busted for Spying, the popular refrain was "Everyone does it, so it's no big deal." But everyone was on steroids in baseball, so how is that a big deal instead?
We should go after cheaters, whether they are players, managers, coaches or refs. No matter what colors they wear.
Funny how the crowd noise and the warm dome didn't affect the Chargers this season when they beat Indy, but it hurt the Pats against them in the AFC title game the year before. Riiight.
If the taping had no effect or purpose, then why do it? Taking roids won't help you hit a ball farther, or run faster, but I take it anyway? Just because? It's a habit and all my teammates are doing it?
"What tape should we watch this evening honey? Our Grand Canyon vacation, our wedding home movies, or Pats-Dolphins from the far endzone camera?"
A blockbuster night at the Belichick household.
My point isn't that it didn't help the Patriots, but looking at videotaping rationally, they maybe were able to see 2 or 3 plays per game that they wouldn't have seen otherwise. Not enough to win or lose a game. Without it the Pats are still the most consistent winning team this decade.
As far as Rodney using HGH he shouldn't have done it. However, a single players actions do not determine a teams charater. He certaintly isn't the only player breaking the rules. In all honesty as fans we want to see mammoth fast players. Thats why the media doesn't make a big deal about it just like Sean Merriman
pats....Overblown? Where were you from September through January? That's when you could have seen overblown. You might have noticed Chowd Nation overblowing the 'greatest team ever.' I wish you had been around in Dec. or Jan. to tell them you were sick of hearing them. After listening to their #### for five months, don't expect a lot of sympathy from we non-Chowds.
It may not have had a huge effect, but you don't cheat to have a huge effect. Just enough to win the game. Just enough to win 17-14, rather than lose 14-10.
I just want the story to play out and not be swept under the rug by Goodell. Give us the data, and let us decide.
P.S. I agree with country. Had you been on this site for football season, your Pat brethern always had some arrogant, we own the world and you just pay rent, stuff to say every game. Now people are finding out about the underhanded tactics, Pats fans (not you specifically) want it go away. The same people you insult on your way up will laugh at you on the fall off the ladder.
I was on sites like espn and cbssportsline, the media was propping up the GOAT talk, they were extremely good, however they were beaten in spectacular fashion. Scandals like this happen a few times every year, but due to recent success this is being made into a huge deal. The Pats had the highest penalties levied against them, but #### fans want more. The fans who are suggesting an asterisk and wanted the patriots to be banned from the playoffs are overeacting. As far as the info we have right now the outrage is overblown.
Maybe I can put your argument into perspective. With you questioning spygate it is the same as if I was questioning the Yankees dynasty from the 1990's. Sure 20 former Yankees were named on the Mitchell report, did it give them an unfair advatage, probably. However, the Yankees won because they were better, and maybe they won some playoff games with some hits that they couldn't have made otherwise, but we don't know. Other teams had players juicing too. You can't go back and try to tell how because in doing so you overcomplicate the process. Other teams violate the rules to win. In assuming they don't is nieve. Don't try to manipulate facts you don't have.
Taking steroids, taping walkthroughs, taking HGH, taping defensive signals. They are done by intent for one purpose - to gain an unfair advantage. Who gets to choose which of the afore mentioned gets swept under the rug? You?
Taping is like HGH. Not really an issue in the grand scheme of things, until someone gets caught. Then team X's fans are left trying to shun off the embarrassment by making statements about how the entire investigation is "overrated", or the Patroits/Bonds/Clemens fans' favorite - "Everyone is doing it".
Last edited by MidniteCowboy on February 18th at 9:23 PM.
Patsrock, you are CLUELESS if you don't think knowing what the defense is going to run at you isn't going to help your team! Why do think Brady throws so many screen passes to the right people, because he so friggin' lucky, or because he soooo good, yeah right. Oh that's right, he's so smart, he invented the screen pass. Look what hppened to the Pats when they didn't have the Giants playbook to look at, Brady got put on his asssss and whined like a little baby, "my uniform got dirty" :-( awww lets have a pitty party for the Pats beacuse they got cought cheating. And lets do what commish Goodell wants and sweep this under the rug and forget about it. NO! When this is all said and done, Belicheat should be banned from the NFL, and at least one if not all of their SB's should be taken. I know you're hoping the Matt Walsh doesn't have any incriminating evidence, but if he does, and I think he does, and so does the rest of the public, then God help the Pats, because the commish will actually have to do his job!
By the way BK, well put, funny how the people you step on on the way up have a way coming back and "texas 2 step" on your assss on the way down.
Last edited by robolo610 on February 19th at 3:28 AM.
Patsrock, lets talk about the penalties..., let's get the facts correct, they only lost one first round pick, THEY STILL WILL PICK 7th IN THE FIRST ROUND DUE TO A TRADE WITH the 49ers. So did they really lose their first round pick? Second, the commissioners actions and comments border on incompetence. I'm glad there’s a lawsuit, maybe this will wake people up to the severity of this act! Belicheat has been blatantly violating NFL rules for at least 7-8 seasons! He then (lied) claimed he didn't know the rules, but yet knows every facet of them to challenge ruling or call to his teams benefit though. Belichick knowingly violated the rules, the commissioner was incompetent in his actions, or in this case inaction, and now it has come to light that the commissioner never even viewed the tapes himself! I hope Matt Walsh has copies of the Rams' SB walk-through, then how will you rationalize that. If you’re going to through Pac-man Jones, Vick, under the bus for not maintaining a “good public image”, ban Pete Rose from baseball, take Marion Jones's gold medals, but do nothing but take 1 of TWO first round picks, and throw a petty 500k fine to someone that has been making more than 5-7mil. (not to mention bonuses and endorsements)for the last 6 yrs, and 250k to the Pats owner who is a Billionaire, you tell me how severe of a penalty that was. We don’t want to tarnish the image of the NFL do we?
Should the Patriots lose their championships that they won through cheating? ABSOLUTELY!!!
It's hard to say that in an era of baseball where steroids/HGH were being used by a large number of professional baseball players that you could asterisk someone's name for taking a unfair advantage against the league.
But Belichick's troubles are much worse than steroids.
He took an unfair advantage over teams, making it far easier to run an offense.
No other coach in the NFL is DUMB enough, let alone risky enough, to tape defensive signals.
He actually DID have an unfair advantage against the rest of his competition and his rings should be taken away from him! One thing is for sure, Belichick and his staff should get a heavier punishment for their cheating. AT THE VERY MINIMUM, BELICHICK SHOULD BE SUSPENDED FOR 2 YRS, AND THEY SHOULD HAVE THIER FIRST SB TAKEN FROM, (IF WALSH HAS VIDEO EVIDENCE), AND THE OTHER TWO WITH AN ASTERISK BY THEM!
Furthermore, Belichick exhibited the same classless behavior when his Pats were finally defeated in a Super Bowl.
With one play remaining why would he walk off the field?
It is ridiculous and completely un-sportsmanlike. Once a Cheater, always a Cheater!!!
My final thought is has the NFL sunk as low (or lower) the MLB has recently with the steroids/HGH scandal? No, but it is headed in that same direction. Goodell should do the right thing, take public embarrassment for the NFL, get rid of a bad seed (Belicheat), and move on, if he doesn't, this will be around for a long time!
Last edited by robolo610 on February 19th at 3:42 AM.
Every team tries to steal signals. Have you ever seen those 4 guys in the booth with the binoculars taking notes. Do you really think they are all watching the game. In terms of penalties by rule the NFL can only take away the pick given to the team by the NFL. Its not the leagues fault it couldnt take both, not that it should have anyway. As far as checking down to screens, I don't know if you noticed but the same exact line as in years past gave up a league low in sacks and still could make the same checkdowns as before. Any trained football eye can tell when the blitz is coming. The Giants have a rediculous pass rush to assume they got to TB while other teams couldn't by the Patriots not cheating is a discredit to them.
All the evidence we have now is that the Patriots took the legal cameras from their coaches box and moved them onto the playing field, maybe a 300 ft differential, and some of you are calling for BB's job and the Pats rings. Its legal to tape for use after the game by rule. So with fans and Media who hate the Pats and BB, are keeping the story alive despite the fact that we have gone 4 months without any new evidence. The league, the owners, players, and fans without grudges are looking to move on, and focus on the new stories. Honestly, if this was any other team nobody would care, but now everybody is upset and trying to make excuses for a reason why their team lost over the last 7 years. Show a little dignity and do what BB cant which is lose with class.
Too bad your first post was filled with the same stupidity that we (unbiased) blog readers have had to endure from the Pats fans all year.
(Quote)"I highly doubt the pats sneaked in a camera into a closed practice, maybe it happened we don't know."
It has already come out that the Packers remove a Pats employee (with camera)from one of their closed practices 2 years ago!
This is Textbook Denial, (everyone does it, Sean Merriman, Colts noise, Miami, Oakland, doesn't impact the character of a team, overblown), blah, blah, blah!
PATHETIC!
If it really didn't help the Pats gain an advantage, BELICHICK WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT!
HOW CAN YOU ARGUE THIS POINT???
Last edited by nba is the worst on February 19th at 7:17 AM.
Same overreaction as everyone else. There is no confirmation to that report. You are entitled to your opinion, but for the sake of argument don't try to present it as fact.
It is simple to argue the point that everyone does it because they do. The Pats did do it to gain an unfair advantage, and they have been punished accordingly for it. Yet the story goes on and on with the extent being greatly exagerrated. Might it have helped on a few plays yes, but not every play. Its like reviewing a game and trying to make assumptions that plays were made because a particular player was juicing. The thought of the Pats knowing every defensive play is rediculous. Professional Sports are a shady industries. It is impossible to go back. I didn't write this article to clear the Pats name, rather to try to help make the story go away. Yet, fans who call for more penalties are overeacting, as for the information we have at this time the penalties match the crime.
Patsrock, do you really think writing another article rehashing the same old thing is going to help make the story go away? Surely you can't believe that. Don't you realize that you just gave a spurt of life to the story?
I hate to say it about your first post, but there have been Patriots' defenders that have been much more articulate than you and they have not made it go away. They have given rational well thought observations and it has not made the story to away.
Unfortunately, the story is not going to go away until the possibility of new information is exhausted. Eventually it will die a natural death, but do not think just because it leaves the front page it is going to disappear completely.
No, even if nothing more is found, there will always be those who feel the Patriots cheated to win Super Bowls.
Once accuations are made and stories go public, they are like the genie out of the bottle, they can never be put back in. Whether true or not, the accuations linger forever.
Last edited by Spurcse on February 19th at 8:16 AM.
Your hearing what you want to hear. The Packers President recalling how he forced a supposed Patriots cameraman off the playing field is hardly hard evidence on the Patriots filming a closed practice.
I have my doubts on this. This argument has erupted into petty disputes with everybody trying to profit whether it be Walsh, Spector, or the Rams Player. Until we receive concrete evidence don't rush to judgement.
It's all over but the stinkin cryin! We are in a new season let's just get on with it, It happend and it's over all evidents has been distroyed! SO WE THINK.
The reason why this has been blown out of proportion is because the east coast media hangs on every action the Patriots do like they have all year. This scandal is going to open Pandora's box on the dirty side of sports for the big 3 (MLB,NFL,NBA). They all have the same issues but handle them quite differently. The main issue for the NFL should be HGH and steroid use. It's pretty obvious when a guy gains 20+ lbs over an offseason, that he's doing something more than just working with a trainer full-time or adhering to a stricter diet. Their main issue is not stealing signs or videotaping offensive or defensive signals. Baseball has a history of doing the exact same thing with teams accusing each other of stealing signs from Managers, Catchers, and Base Coaches for decades. Baserunners have relayed pitches and locations to their teammates at bat as well. But instead of exposing this, they are caught up with the steroid and HGH scandal. I'm not sure how the NBA has avoided these problems. David Stern must have struck a deal that they are simply to be known as the thugs and drugs league and the NFL and MLB will divide the other problems among themselves. The big picture here is that we're in the middle of the doping era for ALL sports that we watch and enjoy. There's 100's of billions of dollars generated and invested in these sports. This is why they are no longer "just games". They have become big business and these three leagues act accordingly. We as fans are simply here to foot the bill for these greedy owners and players.
Last edited by PubMix on February 19th at 5:19 PM.
You been drinking too much Pats Koolaid.
Institutional cheating.
Karma came home and the G-men made fans of 31 teams very happy.
Pats fans, please stop writing blogs about how the Pats didn't cheat, others do it, breaking the rules isn't cheating, blah, blah, blah.
It's pathetic.
Of course other Pats fans will dial in and agree. Duh.
Write about the anticipated 08 signings and look forward instead of crying about the past deeds.
Let it go.
This is turning out like the Michael Vick saga. It's a tired story, but the media will report what fans will read. And like all the fans who went crazy over Michael Vick killing dogs, fans are going crazy over a small form of cheating. The media loves to build people up and then tear them down. As a fan I to watch sports for pleasure, not to worry about idiots like Pacman and Vick, gamblers like Rose, and steroid users like Clemens and Bonds. While these stories should be brought to light, we have better things to do as fans than to try to change history. Thats the brilliance of sports there is always next season. People who break rules should be punished, but I don't want sports to become mainly negative. I feel for Giants fans whose SB stories have come out with less frequency than Spygate articles.
Last edited by patsrock07 on February 19th at 5:38 PM.
if it's such a tired story then why bring it up?they taped got caught at it and no one actually can say if they taped a lot more than we know right now.(destroyed tapes)if they used the tapes to cheat, then, they should be punished worse than what they had been. what little they lost doesn't justify or excuse what they did. if you don't want to hear about it,quit writting about it,and don't blog it because then you get to hear other's opinions. in short don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
Thanks Patsrock07. Sorry about writing a 'Mitchell Report' of my own on your blog. I wanted to add one more thing though. The whole senate hearing business is making the NFL and other sports the culprit of all wrongdoing. In reality, sports is a microcosm of the world as a whole. Our society encourages a "do whatever it takes" mentality which tells us that certain improprieties are just a part of everyday life. When and if you get caught, THEN you come clean and apologize. We see this in politics and in the entertainment industry as well. Life isn't one big confessional booth where you admit wrong then all is forgiven.
My Point is their shouldn't be 4 months worth of stories for a cheating video. When you look at it rationally they were not doing anything they couldn't do from inside the coaches box.
In terms of closed practice video my personal opinion is that is bs. Honestly, logisticly speaking how do you sneak a camera there. You can't even sneak a camera into a high school practice.
a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
Could you please explain what it is that patties fans just cant quite get about-
1. Video Taping of any kind
2. is prohibited
3. at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game
Patsrock sez-
In terms of closed practice video my personal opinion is that is bs. Honestly, logisticly speaking how do you sneak a camera there. You can't even sneak a camera into a high school practice.
Patsrock, it was open practice in the morning, not open to the public, but open to a group with credentials.
Once this was over it became a "closed" practice walkthru, without pads. If proven, the Patriots Camera guy didnt leave not to mention mabee he broke rules to be there in the first place when it was open.
CLOSED = Rams Coaches, Players and Staff ONLY!
Last edited by WeWinAnotherOne on February 21st at 7:55 AM.
After checking you are right about that one, and I apologize for using false info. However, for the umpteenth time, it doesn't matter if it is a camera or a staff member watching stealing signals is a part of the game. The Pats broke the rules I get it. It is just the assumption that the Pats had an enormous advantage which other teams didn't is rather nieve.
As far as Walsh's tape, we still don't know what he has. Obviously you want there to be incriminating evidence while I hope there isn't. To me it seems incredibly unlikely they would authorize credentials to an opposing team employee, and not notice him filming a closed practice.
I am a 17 year old kid from Massachusetts who loves football wth an unequivocal passion. During football season between my high school practices and games, BC games, and Patriots games I spend roughly 30 hours per week on football related activities. Thats not quite enough though so I write and comment on basically every NFL blog I can find.
