The ugly rumour in the corner seems to have finally been slain, well for the sane people at least. All season, at least the Nationwide Toyota engines have been rumoured to have a massive horsepower advantage over everything else on the track.
These blog boards (and probably every other even vaguely NASCAR related one in the world) have seen people accusing NASCAR of turning a blind eye to Toyota's blatant cheating and allowing them to get away with it. Perhap coincidentally these complaints come from the people who often want to do unpleasent things to anyone who has the cheek to drive a 'foriegn' car in an American sport.
A few weeks ago a larger than normal number of engines was taken away for testing to see exactly how many crazed angry horses they had inside them trying to get out. It looked like finally the answer might be in sight. And maybe, just maybe it is.
After the earlier race at Milwaukee (June 21) the engines NASCAR tested told the following story - Toyota had an advantage. They had a pretty large lead over Ford and Chevy - 21 and 20 Hp respectively - but only 4 over Dodge. Despite this it is worth mentioning that Brad Keselowski took the pole there and Edwards won - in what are meant to be the weakest cars.
More recently at the Chicagoland race, NASCAR took 10 more engines to their testing facility - three Toyota and Chevys, 2 Ford and Dodge - that doesn't look like a sanctioning body looking for underhand play - more like a random pick up. And the results. According to NASCAR.com, and a quote taken from the crew chief for the #20 Nationwide car "you have a two horsepower spread that covers six or seven cars". The six or seven cars apparently including the #20 itself, defined as being "in the middle" by it's crew chief.
Now, I'm sure that the most hardline of the Toyota haters will swear this is still a cover up by NASCAR, and that Toyota is using some underhand tactics and technology that NASCAR is letting them get away with for the good of their bank balance. But frankly this is the end of the argument as far as I see it.
No-one batted an eye-lid after last year's Talladega chase race when the normal dyno tests showed a Toyota engine had the most horsepower - that of Dave Blaney's Camry which finished 3rd. No-one batted an eye-lid because it finished 3rd, but as soon as Toyota started winning the Camry having more horsepower became worse than treason.
So Toyota may have more horsepower than the others but so what. Horsepower is not the be all and end all. Remember the figures I gave for the Milwaukee test - that Toyota had 4 (four) more than Dodge. And how many wins does this Dodge motor - which is 16/17 hp better than Ford and Chevy - have - nil, nothing, none, less than one - it only has one pole (Clausen at Daytona). If Horsepower made the world go round wouldn't you expect at least a few scores in the win column?
Perhaps Toyota is doing so well, and probably Dodge so badly, because of other things. They have the best drivers, who's team work the best together, who's cars are set up the best for the track, who's crew chieves make the best strategy calls and who, when they need it, get the best luck.
After all racing is so much more than just going fast.
This report is just plain dumb. You must not know anything about racing and horse power. Do you even know what 16 or 17 horsepower amounts to in mph's. (Miles PER Hour) Who pays somebody like you to write mindless articles like this one? Who does Dodge have driving there cars? With the exception of Kurt Bush there are no proven winners in the Nationwide or Sprint cup races. Talk to a true mechanic and ask them what just 5hp more will do for you. Maybe you should try to do research before writing articles that way you will atleast have a leg to stand on when someone debates it. Incase you still dont understand, if you have 1 horse pulling a buggy you will go alot faster with 2 pulling it. It's that simple!
a classic example of blooming blaniac ####'s that still worship the queen and her court!! he should stick to the mccartney divorce, or the princess di conspiracy! take the eurorail knucklehead, or buy one of those smokin hot rod's from the ex--india!!
"Do you even know what 16 or 17 horsepower amounts to in mph's"
I'm fully aware that the more Hp you have the faster you will go, but I haven't clue about exact numbers.
"Who pays somebody like you to write mindless articles like this one"
I get paid?!?!? I don't think so, or someone carries on stealing my checks
"Who does Dodge have driving there cars?"
Exactly!! If Horsepower was the be all and end all they'd be winning more than Ford and Chevy. But because it's not and things like the driver matter they haven't. Perhaps Toyota has the most wins because the guys it has in their cars are the best at getting the job done?
"if you have 1 horse pulling a buggy you will go alot faster with 2 pulling it"
Again I know. But only if the buggies are being pulled in a perfectly straight line on a perfectly flat surface and the horses never need feeding. Show the horses a corner and the control the driver has over them and how they have been trained becomes as big a, if not a bigger, factor as how many horses are involved.
rfuture - While we're embracing national stereotypes why don't you come here and I'll binge drink you under the table before stabbing you....
It has been report on the news line that toyota has at less 25 more horsepower than ford or chevy.You see what happens win you win two in a row like carl edwards.They make up stuff to penatlize you so your back in the crowd.Before the year is out the other teams will find the horse power and send toyota to back of the field.
broom...don't worry those blue avatars will have us straightened out in no time...lol.
Doesn't it make perfect sense that with Toyota, it's all about HP not the driver. Yet with Dodge it's all about the drivers, not HP?
I have no prob with any engine having more HP as long as it meets NASCAR's specs. I wouldn't take Rusty's word on Toyota's supposed advantage in HP last week, as he has his own agenda. So, for the same reason, I'll not be so quick to blindly accept whatever the crew chief of the #20 NNS car says about HP either.
jrbroomy- Good read. And in defense of your post. I also agree that without a good handling car. All that horsepower goes to waste. What good is it to lose time going in and out of corners because you have excessive wheel spin or your car gets loose going in or coming out of the turns. A Nascar race isnt about who has the fastest straightaway speed. Its about who can get in a and out of the corners the cleanest without losing that precious horsepower.
Steambo Dodge does have a proven winner in Ryan also as well as Kasey Kahne. The only thing mindless is the reasearch that you have done to come against this post. Nascar is not about going fast in a straight line like you said in your buggy comparison. Its about carrying momentum in and out of turns without losing speed or horsepower. Its about pit strategy and fuel mileage. Its about having a driver that has the will to push the limits to get that win. Carl Edwards won 2 races this year and Jr has 1 win without the extra horsepower. Oh and by the way. Dodge has no proven winners? Hmmmm Doesnt Kasey Kahne also have 2 wins. And thats not even counting the way he dominated the All Star race and won that one to. Maybe you and your buddy rfuture should just stick to soccer blogs and leave the Nascar stuff up to my friend here jbroomy. Now here is a guy who knows what he is talking about. If you hang around long enough. There will be others who know there stuff also that will comment and Im sure they wouldnt mind schooling you.
Good point Hanny. As long as they stay within Nascar specs. Who cares who has more horsepower.
I think it is really simple. The other teams need to get to work. They are just being lazy. The Toyota makes the best power because they work hard at it. They dont't give gold medals away at the Olympics to the lazy people who #### all the time. They give them to the people who work hard at their discipline.
I think it is completely stupid to punish Toyota for working hard and getting results.
I understand the concept of this story is to qualify the difference in the horsepower generated by Toyota versus the other manufactors. I'm sure if NASCAR wanted to control the issue they could impose a penalty for exceeding the HP range. A good example is they impose harsh penalties for being 1/4 inch too high or 1/4 inch too low. Why not the same concept? The car of today was supposedly designed so all would be equal..Correct?.....Personally, I liked the old system where the cars were real cars and looked like real cars. I think NASCAR needs to stay in the promotion business and let the Race Teams Race Cars! Thank you and good article
Like everything else, NASCAR has to balance everything to maintain competition. Higher horsepower realates to better handling by allowing more downforce, the car sticks to the track better. Every racer knows that for the most part, whoever spends the most money wins. Right now, Toyota can spend more thus dominiating the series, making it boring. That's why the big money teams can dominate. It's interesting to see that NASCAR reacted by requiring Toyota to reduce horsepower in the Nationwide series in the interest of increasing competition. NASCAR may not react as fast as everyone would like, but you have to admit the more competitive racing is more exciting.
This blog reminded me of the last race when a driver missed a gear and just that fraction of a second got another driver into his back end and a crash ensued. If you think it's only horsepower you're a fool.
As for "more competitive racing" it's funny how we never heard all this whining and complaining while Jr was dominating did we? No calls for parity in every team. You need to save your pennies and bring back IROC racing.
Toyota didn't work all that hard on their engine program to gain an advantage....they were given access to all of the other engines and added on from there. If nascar had a closed engine program (meaning teams couldn't look at other teams engines) toyota would still be a back marker. Remember, nascar determines what gears teams use. If they feel a manufacter is winning too much, they change the gear. They also can change it if a foreign make is running too poorly. (Especially if that foreign make gives nascar a lot of money.)
Now for the handling issue-with these cars qualifying within hundreths of a second from one another, even a five hp advantage down the straight will help get you to that next corner quicker. If Fords and Chevies are still beating toyo with less hp, then we should hold those drivers and teams higher than those of yota. Doing more with less deserves more celebration. One reason Robert Yates had so many wins was because he had so much more hp in the straights. So true handling is important, but when you have an ace up your sleeve in the amount of horsepower, then you have an advantage. Nascar needs to change the gears to take yotas advantage away. And the story here at fox shows more than the hp advantage stated here on this blog.
broomy- I agree, controversy over. HP is not the end all be all, right now its who can get the car to turn in the corners and there is a great article up on Yahoo NASCAR page about that.
Toyota has a different nose and its probably helping them, Dodge is just really stuck.
I don't care who has the most horsepower. As a traditional Chevy fan, all I care about is that all of the engine makes meet NASCAR specs. I believe they do and if they didn't we would have heard about it. Someone always has an HP advantage because they have found a way to be more efficient and the bar resets everytime improvements are made. That is a good thing in racing, innovation not cheating.
NASCAR recently sent 10 different motors for testing, and found that David Reutimann's Toyota was the best with an estimated 3 percent horsepower advantage over the competition.
I don't know where you came up with the 2 hp number but according to Nascar itself this should show you better. A 3 percent advantage with an 800 hp motor is a 24 hp advantage. The other Toyotas may be a little less but you can bet it is just a fraction. So the Toys do have a big advantage.
I don't like to be one to say nascar let the Toys have an advantage on purpose but it sure looks like they would have been on top of this before the season started. It does appear they have allowed it because they needed to have the Toys win or at least be competitive.
Now don't get me wrong, for I don't mind Toyotas racing in the Great American Series but as in the past I'm against making rules that favor one maker or one driver. Nascars history of allowing one car or maker have a tweak here or there to even out competition is clear. Giveing one car an edge with spoilers or the vanes on the roof etc.
Horse Power is the one biggest factor in racing. Yes handling and downforce and cornering are also big, but ask any racer, as stated earlier, and they will tell you, Give Me The Horse Power.
Klvalus hit the nose on the head literally. I've been doing a lot of research recently on the whole horspower issue and the difference between the blocks and engine packages the various manufacturers are using and the differences in the cars. Have almost 10 pages of facts and tests and other junk on this.
It's all about the nose. Rememeber way back when the Taurus's were whined aobut because they handled so much better than the Chevys for a few years? Same thing here. Horsepower mean nothing if you can't keep front downforce on the car and still keep airflow. If you're starving for air, you're starving for horsepower at higher speeds, and if you're getting smooth air flow, you're getting horspepower. That doesn't show up on a dyno.
Someone like Kyle Busch who likes a fast but loose car will excel with this. Someone like Tony Stewart with the same team prefers a more evenly balanced car(a straightaway car) and this is why you see one doing so well and the other struggling.
The Toyota front will be changed before the engines will, guaranteed
Too many racers are in love with Horsepower. I work in an engine shop. We have local racers coming in all the time wanting more HP. They cant handle what they already have but they want more. When they get more they do worse. You spend more time in the corners with less than wide open throttle so you better get the set up right. As far as HP goes there's more to it than just 1 simple number. At what RPM? An engine has a HP curve....meaning it produces diff. HP at diff. RPM. And then theres torque! Same thing... varies at diff. RPM. I have read the Toys have peak HP at 7500 and the Chevy's at 9500. Assuming thats true at the high speeds, where wind resistence is the greatest, the Chevy's have more HP just when you need it most, on the bigger, higher speed tracks. Bottom line is the car has to handle, because there's only a few toys that are winning so the advantage they supposedly have is only working for a few.
novara48 - broomy is talking about the Nationwide series. Dodge has not won. The entire HP discussion was about the Nationwide series. In the Cup series Dodge has 4 wins - Newman at Daytona 500, Kasey Kahne has 2 wins and Kurt Busch.
before you know it NASCAR will tell all the drivers for toyotas that they have to cut off one hand because they are better than the others. What a Fckin joke
niqued - "while Jr. was dominating"? when exactly was that again?
HP is definitely not the only thing, but when you have more of it, it sure gives you more wiggle room in other areas of the setup. Without that extra HP, you need to be damn near perfect in every other area, especially when other teams have that extra HP. It will be interesting when they decide Toyota has won enough and puts the Cup cars on the dyno.
moseby - Thanks. I realized that after I read it once it had posted. oh well, I guess I gotta pay closer attention to the details next time.
klvalus- That charger nose was trouble from the start, they should have just improved on the intrepid, not brought the broad charger that was only good at collecting hot dog wrappers and overheating the engine.
Good blog btw, jbroomy. Split the money you apparently get paid with me, lol.
jbroomy
This is much ado about nothing. If it were just about HP then that wouldn't be it. But what we're actually seeing now is the challenge to once held notion of superiority of the domestic manufacturers. They've been kicked squarely within the balls and at this juncture they're not responding as many of their fans would like.
When it's all said and done they're either going to have to put up or shut the f#-#-k up
once and for all. That's the be all and end all of it. If they can't stand the heat then they'd better get ready to get out of the damn kitchen.
Click on the link (site) below to view the following piece and let me know what you think as to the merits of the piece ?
You Needn't Worry Your Enjoyment Of Sports'll Be Here Tomorrow site
justan' aka tophatal ............
Last edited by justanotherfan on July 23rd at 1:31 PM.
I don't like Toyota taking over winning either. But I am a fan of "High Tech". We must remember that the first words from Toyota to Nascar were "Pushrods, what are pushrods?" Toyota has done their homework and with aggressive drivers doing what needs to be done. It's time for other changes like overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder and get rid of those antique carburators. Technolgy is good. Lets get with it NASCAR.
Another method of equalizing is to add weight. Since the early days of racing weight to HP ratios have determined a lot. Maybe the Toytooters need to gain 3% more weight...or the rest be allowed to diet their drivers like a boxing match.
Guru49 - your comment reminds of another fact about the Toyota engine program. When they started they could, within the rules start from scratch. The other manufacturers were tied to older engines, or at least older components. Perhaps it isn't a coincidence that the newest motor is also the fastest.
BeaverNut - If you mean your comment was first on here, I never saw it and didn't remove it, and I was here pretty soon after the first replies.
Tyler - The Money is all mine!!!!
Charrit - the six/seven cars within a few HP comment comes from this NASCAR.com article.
While the comment comes from the #20 Nationwide Crew Chief, so a pinch of salt might be needed, I reckon this sort of bell curve is probably the reality.
danbe9 - I'm not sure that Toyota actually had access to all the other engines. To be sure Gibbs' engine builders knew the chevy motor, as they'd been building them for years. I that's your idea of an open engine program, what do you suggest, making the builders forget the chevy engine with a sledgehammer to the head?
A lot of European series run a system of what is called 'success ballast'. If you win a race, for the next race you have to carry a certain amount of weight, the runner-up carries a little less extra weight, and so on for the top 5/6 finishers.
While it makes the racing closer - you don't get the same driver running off into the distance every race - it has started to become a bit o####imic, and is arguably starting to detract from the actual racing.
I agree with steambo. You have no brain or sumten. Your logic has gone down the tubes as well. You say toyota has no higher hp but Nascar limited the toyota engines in the Nationwide cars. Go drink some tea or somthing man and stop posting on things u don't know jack about. Go back to tea and F1 you might know somthing about them but u know nothing about Nascar.
Hey jbroomy maybe the sledge hammer to the head would help u. I watch Nacsar every week. 2-3 of different Nascar races a week. And 4 if Espn cl has a classic race on that week. I know Nascar u don't so stop blogging bout it man.
Frigging idi ot this guy is ,15-25 more horsepower is an trmendous advantage for these boxcars where you can't change anything to get a edge,the Drivers have all saig you can't pass with these cars but in the race anybody with this much umpa will make you look silly ,and its been silly all yeat in ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the seris by one driver and TEAM,they got snagged cause they got greedy,and nascar finally listened and opened there blind eyes and tested the cars to make sure,and I give full credit to all those other folks who have been saying the same,well ota ya can't cheat anymore ,lets see how good you are now
I am an open-mineded single girl and I love sports. I want to end my single life by meeting a guy who likes sports too. Let's mingle at the club =(((((==== Mixed mingle.c o m====))))where love is color blind.(my username there is crazygirl)
Time for the facts. If you were to put any good driver in a wagon against kids in a go kart he would win. My point is that if you look at who is winning it is the Gibbs cars (12 of 13 busch races) because when you have Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin driving, you have pro's in the cars against less talent. If you put Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt and JImmy Johnson in Chevys in a busch race they would win also like Gibbs is doing now.
If Toyotas 15 hp advantage is so big then why arent all toyotas finishing in the top 10. It has to do with the talent. What has our sport come to when you reward manufacturers for lazyness from not doing research and development. In 2007 in the truck series Toyota submitted a manifold to NASCAR and it was approved with no problems. Chevy meanwhile submitted a 2006 manifold. Toyota won the first 6 truck races and were told ot to bring the manifold back. So while toyota worked on their stuff everybody else did nothing so Toyota got penalized for their effort.
At the end of the 2007 season Toyota Bush and truck teams were told not the bring back the same engine package and were given until Daytona to come up with a completely new package from the block up. The first time in NAscar history that a manufacturer was given 3 months to come up with a new engine. Then we get to Daytona and finish 1,2,3,in the Bush race. That came from hard work and Reaserch and development. Not cheating. Not paying NASCAR off. If Anybody should be accused of that,it is probably Rusty Wallace. How can a car owner of a competing vehicle broadcast a rac
continued.
and be unbiased. Rusty had the biggest mouth abouth the whole Toyota deal.
If Chevy, Fordand Dodge want to keepup theyeitherneed to get better drivers or do more reseach and development. Its that simple.These are the facts.
Scott_Rules: very nice comment and absolutely right!! It is stupid and unfair to penalize a manufacture for working hard and rewarding laziness on the part of the other owner's, manufacturer's.
the other manufacturer's aren't lazy..NASCAR isn't allowing them to use their new motor that would compete with toyota....they are just making sure toyota get's the owners championship..the only reason I can see that the others can't use the new motor.
Last edited by GUARD MR.JUNIORS AMP 88 on July 23rd at 9:48 PM.
The majority of the Nationwide engines for Toyota teams are built by a shop called Triad Racing Development.It must really chap Roush's #### that a small shop full of talented guys can whip his motors in the horsepower department.His answer? Complain and moan.KHI? Complain and moan. Clint Bowyer? He just says what people tell him to say, he doesn't have the mental capacity to say anything coherent. And to mention conflict of interest, Rusty Wallace owns a competing team and is allowed to talk about the "Toyota horsepower advantage" while he is in the booth.
Bottom line is that NASCAR is going the way of IROC. Look where they are now.DEFUNCT. I am gonna bet that the Toyota engines will be back soon with the horsepower that Nascar took away. All it takes is work, which is something the other teams know nothing about(unless pissing and moaning is synonymous with hard work).
Needless to say, I was not a Toyota fan before any of this. I was a Ford fan. Guess what? I am buying a Camry and am now a David Reutiman fan. I like their work ethic. I want to be associated with hard work and not complaining to get what I want.Roush,Childress,KHI, Rusty Wallace and the rest of the whiners are pathetic. Like I said in my previous post, Gold medals are not given away at the Olympics to the whiners and complainers. They are given to the winners who work hard.
To sum all this up, all the whiners are a bunch of lazy ####!
Beautiful woman,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, But I am just a bit curious..the magazine HOLLYWOOD GOSSIP reported her profile was found on the famous rich men seeking affairs site "______kissmillionaires*c o m_____ "last week and she was seeking her sugar daddy there. ..................wow.!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
talented RACERS (I said Racers, not just engineers) at TRD in California, Triad Racing Development in High Point , N.C., and Joe Gibbs Racing, Toyota has had the unexpected success so far this season other manufacturers have recently enjoyed without the uproar Toyota has caused. (Look at the record books, it's public knowledge).
After the trucks won the first 4 races in 2008 with the new package, Nascar then took one of the just recently approved intake manifolds away. Now after all that, Toyota has a new restrictor plate just specially suited to knock enough H.P. out of the engine to put them back in the pack. Whatever....Nobody gets the fact that cooperation among the teams has been key to the team's success in getting the cars right (like Hendrick did, then the rest with multiple car teams), along with an engine's best friend in drivers who are willing to keep the pedal on the right down longer than the other guy Hard work still pays off today like it always has. The Chebby boys need to develop what they have instead of using hand me downs from the Cup Series. Guess they can't considering new car sales these days. Now it seems more advantageous to have your heroes whine "poor me" every time some reporter puts a microphone in front of them. Seems to work in the new sport of Professional Auto Wrestling.
I've done this for a living for almost 30 years, worked for all the manufacturers in the modern era of Nascar, come from the Midwest and I am proud of it. Most of the people who made this success happen are racers from all around the U.S. who cut the meta
Last edited by cadjockey500 on July 24th at 8:01 AM.
No one batted an eye at Talladega because everyone knows how effective the draft is there. They're raising hell now because Toyota is winning just about everything and it's a hueg upset when another brand wins - and the other brands AREN'T winning because they're as good as they look; they're winning because the Toyotas didn't run as well as usual.
Having more horsepower DOES matter. Don;t trot out the "they have the best drivers, bes strategy calls" etc. argument because they don't.
continued, again.....
Most of the people who made this success happen are racers from all around the U.S. who cut the metal and put the parts together just like the other guys. So all you fair-weather "Johnny come lately" experts who have it all figured out need to apply for a job at Nascar, they need the help.
Get to work and stop whining! If our American manufacturers would build vehicles Americans can afford to drive you wouldn't need a Government buyout to survive and you could afford to buy a new camshaft once in a while and make your stuff better.
By the way, which of the current Nascar manufacturers are actually racing vehicles MADE IN THE U.S.A? Maybe you or your cousin owes the beans on their table to Toyota for giving them a job. I hope all the manufacturers do better in the future for all our sakes. Me, I just want to keep racing cars!!!!!
"Lee Iacocca for President!"
Well said cadjockey. Many of the fans today are johnny come latelys. All you really hear is JR. this and JR. that. Do you think Tony Stewart would have been allowed to pass the pace car like JR. did? NO! JR is a mediocre driver to begin with. If JR was driving a Toyota in the Nationwide series, do you think Nascar would have taken the horsepower away.NO!
JBroomy-You are entitled to your opinions and no one here should spout theirs without some facts. Just because they don't like what is said, doesn't mean there isn't a ring of truth to it. I don't know what happened to my first post, but I am glad to know you did not delete it. Maybe it was a FOX F*art. Anyway, I still think that you establish the formula and let chips fall where they may. I recall a few years back, both Toyota and Nissan were blowing the doors of the competition in IMSA. They added weight, took out the 2nd turbos and limited the boost on the other...did everything but start them a lap down, and they both seperately in different years, kept on winning. You can disguise the rule tweaking BS, and call it cost-saving, or a spotted horse...and neither one would be correct. I wonder what NASCAR would think about the Offenhauser advantage for so many years in INDY. It took decades to surpass its reliability and HP advantages. Did Indy want them to throw out an anchor and slow them down? NASCAR make a formula and stick to it...piston size and compression, cranks, cam lift, lifters, valves, cylinders heads and carburetors are all specified. Chevy, Ford, Daimler or Toytooter need to show up to Daytona speed weeks with their best design, no changes or additions during the season...and yes maybe sometimes, a marque gets an advantage...they deserve the rewards which are wins and championships. If others want those, they must do the R&D or give up and shut up!
longshanx - Why does every NASCAR discussion have to be about what would happen if it were Juinor..Geez I get sick of speculation and paranoia. Both his cup and nw teams have been fined heavily for rules infractions. If they had found an extra 3% horsies, more power to them, no pun! I am not a fan of Junior, but I am dam*n sure tired of everyone using Junior to justify their stoopid arguments. The fact is we have no idea what would happen, and we cannot guess either. I don't think NASCAR looks the other way for any team or any driver...like the paranoids all seem to think when their driver or car is struggling!
BeaverNut-I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Nascar will turn a blind eye to some things and not others. Personally, I could give a fat rats #### about Jr. But my point rings true.And it is not speculation and paranoia. His one win this season at Michigan proves that. Who's paranoid now? Certainly not me.
Toyota has worked hard on their stuff. People are saying that Nascar will not let Chevy have the R07. That may be so. What alot of people do not know is that Nascar made TRD shelve the Phase 9 engine and run the Phase 14 engine. The phase 9 engine is better. Nascar tried to handicap Toyotas by making them run the Phase 14 with hardly any development time. Hard work paid off and the Phase 14 is kicking #### too. Read cadjockeys post. He knows what he is talking about.TRD submitted a manifold and it was approved. Well, after everyone got spanked, they took it away.
People just need to see the point. The other teams just need to work.
The end of 2007 was the last time the phase 9 engine was allowed in the Trucks and Nationwide. So between November and February they busted their #### to get motors for Daytona on a NEW engine package.
Toyota engines finished 1,2,3,4,8 out of the top 10 in the trucks. A Roush Ford sat on the pole. In the Nationwide series 1,2,4,8 out of 10. Stewart sat on the pole. That, my friends, is called busting your #### to RACE and WIN. Now if your lazy, you can just #### and moan and get things handed to you. I prefer the former.
Oh yeah, heres another kicker. When Chevy does get the R07, it has a 4.5" bore spacing a
I always want to write something witty here, but my wit is always confused with something worse ------------- ------------- ----NASCAR and Auto Racing in general mostly here, but I get distracted by shiny sporting objects as well and give them an airing too---------- ------------- -----Pastimes include rooting for the underdog and trying to fathom why Golf is considered a sport-------- ------------- ---
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