Bonds is 43 and has had 9777 AB which is 1378 more than Babe Ruth. Babe was a pitcher for 8 years so he only batted every 5 days if he played a diffrent position and batted everyday he would have had over 800 HRs. If Willie Mays or anyone else played til they were 60 they would probably break the record but that doesn't make them the king because he wasn't a great HR hitter he just played a long time Also Ruth had a higher carrer Slugging%. If you do the math Ruth homered eveyry 3.5 games and bonds homered every 4 games.Ruth only played 2503 games while Bonds played 2960 in counting.
The main reason Bonds isn't the HR king is because he used STEROIDS, he cheated, whatever you want to call it. I am dodger fan so i wouldn't want Bonds to break it either way but i would at least accept the fact he broke the record if he wouldn't have used steroids.
Kind of like Emmett Smith being the all-time rushing leader, anyone here feel he was a better runningback than Sweetness or Jim Brown, hell no, he just hung around long enough to get the record.
Bonds is a cheater wether anybody likes it or not. He admitted using (the clear) but according to him he did not know what it was. I don't think he even believes that, he just needs to cover his ####.
Hmmmmmm, most career HR without using steroids? Well let's just say Bonds did use for the sake or argument. Nobody every heard of Hank Aaron I suppose? See what I mean Rev. Always between Bonds and Ruth, never the Hammer. I rest my case. Check the blog it's all there.
Last edited by Jai_Eazy on August 11th at 4:53 AM.
You know, Im not a Barry Bonds fan at all. Im a Dodgers fan, so that should tell you enough. But I like to give credit where it is do. So I have got to give Barry Bonds his and I think everybody should too. But to each their own. All this steroid talk going on really made me think about his acomplishment. Does he really deserve to be called the homerun king? After going over it for some time, I say yes. Heres why. What convinced me was the quote Andrew Jones said the other day when asked about his thoughts. He said, "a lot of people do steroids and they dont hit 756 homeruns" He couldnt have said it any better.Hey, If they're counting in the official box score then, they count for me too. Everybody in the league takes one thing or another to get a little stronger and get that edge. Some choose to take illegal stuff, others dont. Either way, Barry still had to work out everyday to help that stuff he took take affect. It just didnt work by itself, like a magic wand or something. Barry was still a great skinny looking ball player before all this talk. If he wasnt doing anything before, then I'd be with the majority here. But he was, so I have got to give him his props.
Ya know, I feel the same way. At bats will lead to a greater number of hits AND strikes, so..... If one looks at "per capita" Ruth is still the leader, but who really cares, football season is here!! Ya know Ruth also led in strikeouts, does he still have that lead?? Fuzz
Babe Ruth piched for 5 years and won 89 games while losing 46, with a career ERA of 2.28. He hit 20 homers during that span and piched in a couple of world series. Throwing two shut outs and setting a record with 29 and 2/3's consecutive scoreless innings. In 1919, he won 13 games, losing 7 and hitting 11 home runs in 371 at bats. The next year he hit 29 and was a position player the rest of his career. He still holds records for hitting 3 homers in a World Series game, twice.
Babe Ruth is now 3rd on the homer list but his piching ability along with his hitting makes him the greatest baseball player of all time. I would take Babe hitting over Aaron or Bonds. He hit most of his homers in 16 seasons. HIs first 5 he hit 20 homers as a pitcher. I would take the Babe pitching against the other two. Thats why he is the best...there is no comparison!
He admitted using (the clear) but according to him he did not know what it was.
So many people are ignorant as to what was actually said in Bonds' grand jury testimony.
Click here to read it. You will see the following:
"To the prosecutors, the substances Bonds said he was using sounded like "the cream" and "the clear," two steroids designed to be undetectable in laboratory testing that Victor Conte, founder of BALCO, is accused of marketing to elite athletes, sometimes with Anderson as middleman."
Bonds admitted to using flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis.
The prosecutors assumed that he was referring to "the cream" and "the clear" even though those words never came out of Barry's mouth.
Last edited by UltraMegaOK1988 on August 10th at 7:58 PM.
It's the same as football, basketball, and other sports as well as baseball.
Due consideration is rarely given as to how many games a player plays, how many games are in a season from one era to the next, how many chances a player got, and the averages when you put it all together.
And often, due consideration is not given to whether players took performance-enhancing drugs.
This is silly. It's a fact that both Ruth and Bonds played in the two most statistically-whacked eras. In Ruth's day and age, the game was so different. Ruth got to bat against the same pitchers over and over again four to five times a game. Pitchers back then only really threw fastballs. There were no "specialists," who could give Babe different looks. The average hitter in Ruth's era batted .300+. The average hitter in Bonds' era batted .264.
Could you imagine what Bonds would do if he faced the same pitcher five times in a game?
I mean, it's hard to compare different eras. But it's true both played during weird times.
Mays is the all-time champ in my book. He hit 660 while playing in the Polo Grounds and Candlestick Park, two of the hardest parks to hit homers in. He missed two years to the Korean War. Aaron hit only 95 more homers despite having close to 2,000 more at-bats. Mays could have hit 800+ in the right circumstances.
Bonds, on the other hand, was so fast and such a base-stealing threat, that he didn't just slug for the fence. He was satisfied getting on base. Once he got older and lost his speed (see A-Rod and Beltran), he started to focus more on hitting homers. In 1992, he hit 34 homers, which was second most in the NL. He was still finishing top 5 every year in homers back when he was 25 years old.
Could you imagine what Bonds would do if he faced the same pitcher five times in a game?
Moreover, could you imagine what Bonds would do if he faced the same pitcher five times in a game, once every three days?
In a four-game series, he'd see the same pitcher 10 times. If it's late in the season, that pitcher's arm is obviously worn out. And Bonds has a better feel for what the pitcher throws -- the pitcher has no way to "trick" him.
Sorry if I'm interrupting your flow of comments, Train.
Ruth was the Adam Dunn of his time. He was the first guy who really said, "I'm going to knock it out of the park." The fact he routinely led the league in strikeouts suggests he swung for the fences.
What if Barry wasn't so fast? What if, like Ruth, he focused on just hitting the ball as hard and far as possible? He would have hit over 800 homers easily.
Baseball changed. Parks shrunk. Athletes have gotten bigger and stronger because of exercise science. Guys didn't go to the gym back in the day. So, NATURALLY, homers would increase.
Like I said, Bonds was always top five or six in homers in the NL every season. He was always right there with the sluggers. Prior to 1998 -- when it is alleged he started juicing -- he hit 33 homers or more in a season SEVEN TIMES!!!
Adjust for inflation. Everyone's homer counts increased from 1998 and on. Not just Bonds. He hit 46 homers in 1993. Is that the equivalent of hitting 60+ in 2003? Of course.
Bonds has been a .400 OBP/.600 SLG guy his ENTIRE CAREER. His amazing numbers went up just like everyone else's. The year Bonds hit 73, SIX OTHER PEOPLE HIT AT LEAST 49 HOMERS. Sosa hit 64 that year. Gonzo hit 57. A-Rod hit 52.
Steroids helped Bonds recover. That's it. As he aged, it took longer to undo all of the soreness. Steroids helped with his training. It didn't give him the greatest eye in the game, the highest baseball IQ ever, and quickest bat... those are all natural talents he possessed.
I just cannot deal with hypocrisy. Bonds is one of the greatest -- if not the greatest -- baseball players ever.
You fools who just focus on the home run chase and steroid allegations are absolute idiots. You must believe everything you're told by the press. Do you watch baseball? Have you been watching baseball closely for a long time like I have?
Bonds was Rickey Henderson, Tony Gwynn and Mark McGwire rolled into one. Just an AMAZING talent.
Jerk o####uy. Sure. But that's no reason to discredit him. There are jerks everywhere. You pay money to go to games to be entertained by elite athletes. You don't just root for good guys.
If you needed a plumber and option A was a bonehead who was the nicest guy in the world, and option B was a complete jerk who was a master in his trade, who would you hire? The jerk, right? It's not about him as a person, but rather how well he does his job.
Bonds is a great ballplayer. Man...he's 43 and has an OBP of .500
I have mixed feelings about Bonds too, but, jerk or not, he did break the record. Bonds "played a long time", yes, but so did Aaron--whom you failed to even mention--& Babe Ruth, who retired after 21 years in the bigs. As for Babe's fived years as a full-time pitcher (six total--1914-1919), we can't blame Aaron or Bonds for that. As for the steriods, even if they added, say 100 homers to Bonds' total, he'd still have about what Willie Mays does--660--and more than Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle & numerous other Hall of Fame sluggers. He'd still have around 500 steals--steriods don't give a guy instincts (a lot of fast guys aren't good base stealers) & still be a .300 hitter (steriods don't give you a great batting eye--you have it or you don't).
Ruth played in the AL with a DH, so you can take off 5 years for pitching, but then you should add 5 years for Barry for playing in the field for all of his career. Considering Bonds played in the NL and still broke the record, that is amazing. He is the new HR king no matter what anyone says. The record book says so until someone else passes him up.
Ultra: That makes sense. Why the testimony was leaked was primarily to "get" Bonds. People are so quick to judge, hell they really don't know, all the haters are basing their hatred on the fact that the media says it is so. Mebbe Bonds didn't know what he was ingesting; but even if he did, the 'roids would only give him muscle mass, etc., etc. It wouldn't add to his "eye" for hitting or his ability to discern what the hell a pitcher was doing. I just think bashers will forever be that, even if concrete evidence would clear Bonds. Oh well... Fuzz
Fuzz, exactly. Most people are media drones -- they lap up whatever they're told without thinking for themselves.
The media treated Barry's father poorly, and Bonds has never let that go, so he is abrasive towards the media. They don't like that, and since they wield the brush, they paint him in a negative light.
99% of the people who dislike Bonds because he's a "jerk" (one of the least-offensive terms used to describe him) have never met him.
Its funny how people tend to believe that Babe Ruth is the best baseball player of all times. When he never really played against all of the best players of his day. If u want to say he was the best player to play in the major leagues then u can say that. but if the #### league players were allowed to play back then, we would be saying "babe who?". U can say what u want, but there are many accounts of scouts saying that alot, and i mean alot, of the #### leaguers would have taken jobs away from the many of the so call stars of baseball back then. Should we put an asterik next to Ruth's numbers? should we minimize them? Ur gonna believe things b/c u want to believe them. no matter what anyone says ur still gonna believe it. It can come out tomorrow that Bonds never used roids, had nothing to do with BALCO, and some of u would still believe he cheated. WHY? b/c u simply want to believe it.
A lot of Ruth supporters simply brush off the fact that he never played with African American players (while illegally playing Major League Baseball during segregation -- he had partial African-American heritage).
To discount that would have some merit if the first few African American players weren't that good. But they were very, very, very good.
I agree with the fact that Ruth and Aaron were great hitters, but in an era when you can face up to 6 pitchers in one game, facing the same guy for 5 abs and 20+ abs in a series gives the hitter much more of an advantage that it the pitcher.
Besides Ruth didnt face the bevy of talent that the #### League offered. Satchel Page won a Cy Young at 42 after finally being allowed to pitch in the league. Josh Gibson was rumored to have hit close to 1000 HRs, what if they'd been allowed to enter baseball in their prime. I know it was significantly after Babe, but it was just an example of the talent baseball supressed.
As for Barry, he lost some years as he went to college instead of going into the league as a teen. So instead of hitting his first at 19 like Griff and Arod, he was 22-23 years old. Ball parks have also changed and since Bonds has spent his entire career in the NL he has hit in the most difficult parks to homer in (save Coors).
Ruth maybe was a decent pitcher, Aaron a great hitter,but the most complete player in baseball has been Barry Bonds for the last 2 decades.Maybe ever.
When baseball was already running rampant with steroids, "fair play" meant Bonds should be allowed to use too in order to level the playing field. Why should McGwire and Sosa get all the glory?
I live in LA and I'm a Dodger, Laker, Raider, and USC fan. My favorite sport is soccer and my favorite team is Chivas Guadalajara from Mexico, also my fave international team is Mexico! That is basiclly me!
KOBE IS FINALLY MVP!!!!!!
