Before everyone gets bent out of shape....this is tied into sports, all sports.
Everyone has been watching the meltdown of Wall Street recently; many people have been affected, one way or another; many have lost their homes, their jobs, their pensions and many who can afford to buy items on credit can't. It seems that the only ones NOT affected by the meltdown are POLITICIANS AND PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.
These persons continue to draw their high salaries, basically paid by us. Taxpayers pay the elected POLITICIANS salaries and all their benefits. Fans pay the ATHLETES salaries and benefits by paying admission prices and buying things that are advertised, one way or another during the athletic contests; of course the companies that sell these things pay huge money in order advertise their products during these contests. Of course we pay for this advertising in the end...ever increasing prices of food, automobiles, housing...whatever.
Not one of the POLITICIANS or ATHLETES care to reduce THEIR salaries or benefits; at least the athletes are not blaming each other for the economical debacle that is unfolding before our eyes. However ALL the politicians are blaming each other. AND the majority are blaming the Bush Presidency for the current debacle. Obama claims that Bush and his cronies caused this; McCain is blaming the Democrats. I wonder......does anyone know who is at fault? Are any of you thinking how this came about? I have.
I believe the debacle came about because of the banking industry's proclivity of granting loans to persons and businesses who, in the end, could not afford to make the required payments. The loans were offered at low rates to draw customers in; the drawback was that they were "adjustable interest" loans. After a "short" period the loan interest began to rise to what the market dictated, since the loan rate was not "fixed" payments rose to a point that customers began to default. Foreclosures began, causing a glut of real estate on the market, lowering the value of the property in question. With banks not being able to "unload" these properties to recover the loss, banks began to fail. Bigger banks began to fail for the same reason, their money was tied up in loans to smaller banks; all were based on real estate purchased at "overvalued" prices.
So..........banks refused to offer credit, even to those well able to afford the cost of interest; thus we started down the slippery slope. Since the availability of credit controls everything, businesses had not enough money to perform; layoffs began, businesses lost money. The value of businesses went down, so investers began to unload their stock..causing the value to go even lower with more and more "selldowns". The panic began and will continue, until people with faith in the "system" begin buying stock, which will cause the price of stock to rise; but the "profit takers" will do this....buy low and sell high.
Of course I simplified what has occured, there is more; but panic selling has always ruined the economy...look at the '29 crash, the panic selloff bankrupted the Nation and the world. Of course there was no money behind the stocks that crashed then, one could purchase and own stocks for 10 cents on the dollar, without ever putting any more money in the stock. My aunts and uncles lost "fortunes" in the '29 crash, of course it was only paper money.....their "fortunes" were only on paper, no "real" money behind it.
Tie this into sports....the Jerry Jones', the Rooneys' and other owners have investments that enable them to survive; they also rely on adverising fees and profit sharing to afford the salaries paid. What happens when some businesses "refuse" to pay those fees? What happens when those businesses fail? Where is the money going to come from? Will the players take cuts in salaries to aid the team? Will owners cut their losses and just fold? IT COULD HAPPEN. Think about it.
That's my opinion. I should have said my mother's aunts and uncles lost fortunes in the '29 Crash. But, they were my aunts and uncles too; just "great" aunts and uncles.
This IS an important issue! In fact the economy is THE issue right now. Your question that basically says, what will folks do if sports franchises and sports in general run into too many difficulties is a very good question. During the Great Depression some of the old timey NFL franchises went under, leaving only the survivers, which still survive today (Giants, Bears, Steelers, Cards (back then the Chi-Cards), Packers and one or two others). Last I heard San Antonio, Texas, was wanting a franchise, but in these hard economic times are unlikely to get one. What about franchises that might be losing money and are definitely losing due to poor management (the Lions, for instance)? Will these teams survive? and that is just the NFL...what about the other leagues? So, yes, sports lovers might have reason to be concerned.
fuzzboss great post why???? becasue you nailed it ive said this lots and its so true..... it must be nice to be payed millions and millions to one person!!! yea one person to either catch, throw, dribble, shoot or hit a ball???? now dont ghet me wrong i love sports but come now!!!!!!!!!!!!
fuzzboss
This wasn't just about the loans that were provided but the secondary market as well. Therein which the various major institutions deceptively created instruments in order unbundle themselves of much of this debt off unto others. It's now one olf the primary reasons we've got this debacle. And at the same time the members of Congress , the Fed, Treasury Dept and the administration looked on as if nothing wrong was wrong. Those who are now saying that they raised the alarm bells. Are only saying that to curry favor with the electorate.
As to the athletes and celebrities they too'll find themselves in hot water sooner or later as the ball continues to unravel.
One of the reasons that this $700bn bailout bill was passed was also because of the pork that was attached to the bill as well. NASCAR by way of one of its subsidiaries will share in over $300m as part of this all. So you can see that those of us at the bottom of the food chain are still being treated like pieces of excrement. And it's all being done at our expense. The thing is we're being told that our legislators know what's best for us. But at the same time they're not even prepared to listen to the voice of the people who elect them to office.
So in the end it tells you all that you need to know about the bast*ards to begin with !
I'm not so sure it's the athelete's fault.
If the money wasn't there, the owners wouldn't give it to them. Supply and demand capitalism. (Just imagine what the owners are making, if they're giving the players that much) It's the players that bring the viewers and dollars in...the game itself is the product, and it sells. I have no problem with that.
However, when it comes to Government, Wall Street and Corporate fatcats getting multi million dollar buyouts, bonuses and the like, I say...Get a rope.
I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils...
I want a candidate I can vote for that I don't have to pinch my nose while casting my ballot...where the hell is THAT guy?
Last edited by Bleedpurplngold on October 10th at 11:10 AM.
Thanks to all...I'll answer one by one a little later. I did say there was a lot more to this...not enough time or space to really get into it....it all boils down to banks and the like trying to make big profits; when real estate tanked, they lost billions, thus......
Does anyone know when a politician is lying? Whenever the mouth is open and words are coming out.
Snork! Yeah......wonder what would happen? Course if we do go into a real depression (bad word, govt perfers recession) the only ones with jobs will be the politicians. Could occur...you know the owners won't take the loss...they'll fold and keep what they have.
JW: True....if every high paid athlete, politician, CEO, etc., would "donate" 10 percent..... Oil companies, sports teams etc. Ah weel...those who have get, those without stay without, even worser.
Kelly: Thanks for the visit....Not just the high paid athletes, all the CEO's, politicians and on and on. Course that is Capitalism....the rich get richer, the poor stay poor.
Top!! You understand, I just wanted to limit my diatribe. Everyone looked the other way. There was a point under Clinton that they wanted everyone to own a home, so......regulations by the Fed, states and so on were lessened. Property was overvalued, people didn't even have to show income..some even filled out forms or banks filled in the forms so that one could get mortgages...defaults came their way. Lot lying and deceit with the blessing of regulators. Bigger banks and prime loan companies then bought up mortgages that were bad, figuring they could make a profit, even if the loan defaulted. However property value went down the tubes......result is what is happening now.
Bleed! I know it is not an athlete's fault....I had to tie this post into sports, Prime example of high wages is the money paid to athletes.
Owners just have no balls to deny paying high salaries....Like Lee Iacocca said once....there are plenty of jobs at 28 dollars an hour, just no jobs at 50 dollars an hour....or something to that effect. Point is...you want to work...this is what I will pay you.....ain't happening is it?
Like the picture....seems that is what they do, no that is what they do. LOL
Last edited by fuzzboss on October 10th at 3:38 PM.
Fuzz-5 0 ......Warren Buffet explained it so well....All these corporate geeks found a way to pilfer 401K's......They decimated the economy.....Yet Bush had the brassy's to call it a ROBUST economy as little as 18 months ago......I saw the termoil ahead.......Then we had Republican march orders...where everybody was defending Big Oil.........Look no further than the $440,000 golf outing the Lehman Brothers executives took......THAT kind of #### is a tax wirte off......Big Oil claims to make only a modest profit per gallon of gas......my ######## they do......I own and operate a small business....I know how overhead can be padded......The whole thing shows how stupid most of America can be......following march orders and ignoring the obvious..........
Big Oil collapsed the market...combined with hedge fund greed...#### poor lending practice...and moreso corporate greed.
fuzz, while you alluded to the fact that many things are combining in a perfect storm right now to plague our economy, your overview is pretty spot on.
I'd hate to think about some of my favs folding (e.g. Rooney's team), because if the economy gets any worse, these overpriced jocks may be the only thing keeping me happy!
WW! Thanks for the read! Yeah there are many villains in this debacle, but.......mainly it was the housing/property collapse that brought about the panic. Real estate was always considered a wise and safe investment....still is if you have the fortitude and money to buy.
I remember a man named I. S. Sahli when I began my employment as an Officer in Beaver Falls, Pa. During the Depression (29) he had enough cash to buy up property. Man became a millionaire.......had a brother or son who became a general during WWII, later owned a HUGE Chevy dealership. Knew both...good guys, smart.
TSI!!! Thanks for stopping by and the props. It could happen, hell we have no cash flow and everything is CREDIT, which ain't being offered.
The wise thing to do would to hold on...selling lowers the value of the stock as it did in '29. Ah well...the profiteers will have it all, I fear.
the Stock Market always self adjusts in october, as now is the time when the CEO's and Company accountants can not hide the profit/loss margin any more. I blame ceo's and other higher ups in teh copmpanies as they are the cause of stock overvalue and misiinformation of how well the company's bottom line is. I have said it many times, get out of the stock market in september, and buy back in november. as for the owners and players, when we stop going to games 'cause of the extreamly high cost to see a game live, teh prices should level off. if not, then teams will start to go bankrupt as well.
Damned Fannie Maes and Jennie Macks. It is all relative. Thinking about it, this tumble was long over due. I am thinking since the Clinton era.
The prices of realvestate are finally going to sell at at what it is actually worth, not what the market will bear. This is a buyers market.
Stocks are going to be cheaper and are sorting out and adjusting down to reasonable prices. Just be carefull on risky ventures. Again,it is a buyers market on the better stocks. It is odly strange to see the Dow Jones averaging 10,000 points. Talk about inflation on over priced stocks. I though the market was out of wack when the Dow was only 5,000 points.
Finally this fiasco will bring some sensibility back to investments. Finally the loose credit availability will tighten up and the sub prime rates will dry up. Never understood why some can get credit with a less than stellar history.
Kinda insane to allow credit to buy a $200,000.00 home to some one with fair credit and not a sound or sufficient income to justify that price level.
Sadly, we the taxpayers are the ones that will have to bear this expensive bail out. What we need is a President with a sound business back ground well versed on business oprations and profitability. Not another politician or lawyer who doesn't have a clue about business operations and doesn't know what bottom line profits are.
Vote Photogr for President.
Last edited by photogr on October 10th at 7:47 PM.
Net! Welcome to thr Dark Side...LOL. Thanks for the read. I thought something like that, but too man profiteers, liars and cheats got caught with their pants down tryin to make a killing in real estate. As Merle Haggard sang "If we make it through December..."
Fuzz.....West-by-God-Virginia?..... or Pa? I thought PA was an affordable state.....until we drove through awhile back.....Doggone toll road is downright expensive.....the fuel tax is higher than Ohio's.....But...it is the most beautiful state bordering Ohio....
OH hell ya....The Blue Jackets just tied up the game...2-2 in Dallas.....
Photogr! Thanks for coming by. There will be no joy in Mudville cause Casey isn't up to bat for us anymore. Really, lot of fraud in this debacle, beginning with the banks and the govt regulators.Things definitely got out of hand. I bought a home for 26,000 in '94....put a LOT of work in it, HAD to insure it for 150,000. They tell me it is worth 85 to 90 thou. ####, what an investment.
WW: Penna...23 miles north of Morgantown, 'bout the same or less from the Ohio/WVa eastern line. Yeah, Penna, land of taxes, potholes and road construction...we have 4 seasons here: Almost Winter (some call it Fall), Winter, Still Winter and Road Construction. We like Winter cause the potholes are filled with snow or ice.
My newest post was somewhat political and now I'm having problems. I hope it dosn't to you. Has anyone here tried, per chance, to leave a comment on one of my posts only to not be able ???
Fuzz, I have said before they make too much money as in the athletes, You have seen some great football in the collage game and they are not getting paid to play, yes they are playing for their future in the NFL to make the big money. So do they need to pay the outrages salarys? NO!
Now on the Politcians that make to much have 2 homes etc is the most un American thing they could be doing. Its because we let it get that far. What it takes is everyone to say you are not getting are tax forms, Are they going to in prison every single American? Also the bank owners who have made way too much money living in big homes are getting bail out and will not lose their big homes and fancy toys while the poor will have to scrap to pay for it. Are they getting bailed out? No! Its time for America to wake up and smell the coffee they are drinking and say enought is enought we want some of it.
Great post and I think Photogr for President will have a spot for you in the Banana Yellow House.
Cheers
Marty! Thanks for the visit......Didn't even see your post yet...I'll find it. I tied mine sports....but it was......dare I say......it was really a dig at the politicians and that whole damn thing they brought about, starting with Carter....heightened by Clinton......I'm sorry, I liked Clinton, but.......
Forensic2! Hey man...how you? Yep...salaries just got to high...not just in professional sports though. ####, look at the CEO of WaMu that rec'd 19 mil for 3 weeks of "work". Across the board, things have gotten out of hand...and all of it is in inflated dollars; maybe this will wake up the silent majority, but then again.......
money rule #1....do not throw good money at bad money....
rule#2....let the markets correct themselves
weve been out of our minds for years its time we face reality and tighten our belts and quit spoiling our kids and granchildren....
bailing out crminal behavior is not the message we need to teach our young ...
maybe we should start over and and remember we have nothing to fear but fear itself.......
we need to make those accountable for getting us into this mess, we the people will survive and build a new economy
tigervidmar! Thanks. Yep! Problem now is that those who were in the market to only make money are selling to save their ####....it's not the thing to do......need to hold on and let the market correct itself. Selloffs lower the indexes, cause a crash and devalue everything...course costs and everytning has been inflated over the years. Course that is just my opinion, but some "panics" of long ago could have been "depressions" had not some bought into the system and saved the economy......that is a matter of record.
I don't think that putting the President on National Television to give us the current state of the nations ecconmics is a very good idea.
I would like to see some one like Ben Bernanke or Alan Greenspan explaining the current state of the ecconomy rather than George Bush.............Or perhaps a professional speaker instead, like Bill Gates.
Pro sports will be fine...............If we find our selves at a point where the NFL is going belly-up. Then we most likely will have more on our minds than sports anyway.
fuzzboss
I feel that credo should be for us to have competent people actually being fruitful and productive custodians in not only the federal government. But also the agencies that run many parts of the public sector as well as the private sectors of the economy. It that really too much to ask at this juncture ?
God knows all this damn name calling won't negate the problems that the country is now having and will face in the future.
And what's even scarier is the fact that the two candidates and their running mates just don't seem to have a clue as to the real underlying issues. And how best to resolve them.
Incompetency it'd appear is the only prerequisite for attaining a place in high office and within Congress it appears. cause in no shape or form have we seen any intelligence whatsoever come from these individuals. And the same can be said for the mo*rons on Wall St and many of the various financial institutions.
tophatal ...................
Last edited by justanotherfan on October 12th at 1:42 PM.
Fuzz...We only have ourselves to blame. Think about. Everyone has to keep up with the Jones. They have to have the Hummer...or the big screen HD TV. CD players just came out and now are being replaced and have become almost obsolete.
How much better sound or picture quality do we really need. HDTV, PSP's, phones that do everything under the sun. We buy...buy...buy and for what? Just so we can say we have it...or that we are technologically in the 21st century.
This attitude dribbles down into our psyches and we overextend our credit lines and buy more house than we really can afford. We throw our 6 year old kids birthday parties that cost a mint...because Johnny's parents next door brought the circus to his. It's all about appearences...and our house of mirrors is cracking and crashing down all around us.
We need to get back down to basics and stop the opulence. This includes ridiculous athlete salaries.
We must hold corporations accountable.
When someone invents a light bulb that can burn 30 years...we should demand that the company that buys it's rights can't shelve it because they won't make money on it.
The United States used to be the largest loan broker in the world....now We are the LARGEST DEBTER. The problem? We as a nation have overextended and MISUSED our credit to the point of it exploding. The seams are starting to burst.
Last edited by socratesofswat1 on October 12th at 2:19 PM.
EQ....Top....Socrates.... Agree with all your comments..appreciate the visits.......
We need to suck it up as Socrates sez.....my problem has always been the profiteers...buy low, sell high, unreasonalby high. I remember years ago buying an "expensive" iron, made in the USA in San Diego..cost somewhere around 28 bucks, did everything except iron the clothes....anyway 'bout 2 yrs later the company moved..lock, stock and barrel to Mexico to gain advantage of lower production costs...never lowered the price of the iron. Cost them an average of 5-6 bucks to make it as opposed to around 22 in the USA. Now, that is profit!
socratesofswat
You try explaning that to those dunderheads within Congress. Never mind the id*iots to the right and the left of the argument who'd would rather see this debt be foisted on the next generation. It'll never be paid down. And the example being set by Congress and the Fed is completely irresponsible in this respect.
They're not prepared to make any sacrifice but yet they're prepared to foist upon the taxpayers the problems they've created.
fuzzboss
That's the friggin' problem as we're the ones who are ####*king it up at the expense of our damn pockets. Let me know when the two buffoons running get it into their thick heads that we can't continue to go on this way.
What the two of 'em know about economics could be written on the back of a first class stamp.
Cause beyond that they're completely clueless
with that and any other regard as to inherent and underlying issues facing the country. It's all style over very little substance.
We need a revolution.....totally throw all the Congersmen out..misspelled on purpose....look up a Conger......We have the most selfserving, selfpromoting, overpaid.....tax/bloodsucking people in Congress......And we keep reelecting them. There is 2 term limit for Presidnet...why not a 2 term limit for Senator...a 5 term limit for Representatives?? They sit there in the ivory towers....lose touch with us....It is like King George III and Louis whatever number he was and Marie. Screw the public.
fuzzboss
We can't eat cake cause we can't afford the price.
I'm watching the Cowboys and Cardinals. And I just saw Cardinals' coach Ken Wisenhunt just cost his team the game by calling a timeout just prior to Dallas Nick Foulk attempting a three point field goal. Foulk missed it though the referees reacted to Whisenhunt's wish for the timeout. They've now gone into OT 'cause of his idi*otic decision.
The stupidity of some of these NFL coaches never ceases to amaze me. It's a wonder they get paid to do their job.
In 29 the stock market crashed and Babe Ruth still got his $80,000, and as the Intellectual illuded to, we need these athletes to distract us from all this misery
Ah B@O...that is correct...course 80,000 was 80,000 then. Now the 12 mil. or more is 80,000 huh?
Top: Yeah I got a kick out of that time out too...could have cost him the game...bet he won't do it again. Can't understand it anyway...it rarely "freezes" the kicker, actually give them more time...usually needed.
Last edited by fuzzboss on October 13th at 4:42 AM.
fuzzboss
I guess you've already seen Whisenhunt's pec*ker then ?
Look I'll be moving on as such with regard to Fox in terms of contributing pieces. But from time to time I'll be returning to offer up commentary. But should you be interested I've provided you with a link to the site where I'm now doing pieces. Just click on the text below to view. And by all means do leave a comment. But don't forget to identify yourself.
There'll be a wide variety of pieces that I'll be opining on from sports to busines to politics and beyond. But you can also be sure that there'll be the usual assortment of babed chipped in for good measure. So I'll be looking forward to reading your comments as and when you're ready.
I've also left a final piece within the Fox forum thanking you all .
The Fox piece is entitled Long Goodbye
tophatal ............
I am an old #### living in Southwestern Pennsylvania, about 60 miles or so southwest of Pittsburgh. AND I MEAN AN OLD ####!! Served over 35 years in Law Enforcement as a Police and Corrections' Officer.
