I first heard it after the Eagles beat the Redskins in Week 14. At that point, it was said sheepishly, almost apologetically. After the Giants victory, I heard it asked straight-facedly on a Philadelphia morning sports-talk show:
"Let's say the Eagles win the Super Bowl with Jeff Garcia. Do they go back to Donovan McNabb next year?"
As a teacher, I am supposed to live by the mantra that there are no stupid questions. But this question is stupid with a capital "stew." And it is being discussed seriously by people who should really know better.
To understand the abject idiocy of the question, we must first examine the opening phrase. "Say the Eagles win the Super Bowl." Yeah, let's just say. Say the most exciting, wonderful, unlikely event in the history of Philadelphia sports happens in six weeks (please don't e-mail me about Villanova-Georgetown). Say the Eagles make the playoffs, win a game, win another game, beat the Bears in Soldier Field, then beat the Chargers or Ravens or Colts or Patriots or whoever. Say that the trumpet doesn't sound at that moment and the Seventh Seal isn't broken. Say that Eagles fans don't burn South Street to the ground in celebration. Say all of that happens. Who's the quarterback next year? Who cares? If the Eagles win their first Super Bowl ever, the Barefoot Contessa can quarterback the team for all anyone cares. They'll have won the Super Bowl!
What an assumption to make – after three wins, the Super Bowl is a prepositional phrase leading into a sentence about a quarterback controversy brewing in the mind of a deluded armchair GM. The only thing more preposterous about the concept itself is the idea that someone would broadcast it. "Hey, Tony, Mike from Mount Ephraim here. Say a race of giant space insects comes to earth and enslaves the population in their subterranean lairs making nutrient jelly for their queen's eggs. If that happens, do we start Garcia or McNabb next year?" I can hear these same callers flooding the airwaves 45 minutes after the Eagles beat the Ravens 56-0 in their imaginary Super Bowl, with Garcia throwing eight touchdown passes. "So, Jody, who do we start next year? And by the way, what was that bum Andy Reid thinking when he punted on 4th-and-inches from midfield when we only had a 49-point lead? He's a lousy gameday coach who can't make adjustments."
The issue here isn't the Eagles' Super Bowl worthiness, though I feel despite their DVOA that they are a notch below the top contenders (here's a thought: what would LaDainian Tomlinson do to their defense?) The issue is that some fans are willing to leap to absolutely insane conclusions on the basis of three games. Garcia led the Eagles to victories over a bad Redskins team and Panthers and Giants teams that fit squarely into the Eagles' sewing circle of talented-but-highly-flawed NFC contenders. The Eagles needed defensive heroics to win all three games. Garcia's performances in all three contests were surprising and effective but not great. But suddenly, Garcia can do things that McNabb couldn't. He's better at reading defenses (no he isn't). He's easier to block for (no he isn't, because most linemen hate quarterbacks who jitter around in the pocket). He's more creative when plays break down (please be serious). He's better on quick-hitting timing passes (okay, you've got one, but I'll take the 45-yard bombs to the five-yard hitches any day). He finds a way to win.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. Garcia is a winner, because he has won three games. McNabb never executed a three-game winning streak. Oh wait, he has, but that was then and this is now, baby. The Eagles respond to Garcia (actually, their luck for the season started to even out). He has come through in the stretch (he hasn't been victimized by dropped passes and 62-yard field goals). He's a "leader" in some magical way that McNabb isn't. He's taking the Eagles to the Super Bowl, and it's time to ask now if Reid has the guts to trade McNabb and give Garcia the chance to repeat, or if he's going to go with "his man".
Maybe I am overreacting to one or two talk radio callers and some water cooler speculation. Or maybe not. Midday sportstalker Jody McDonald (one of our more level-headed thinkers in the Philly media) read a long diatribe on the air that I believe was taken from some Eagles blog. The screed ripped McNabb for all of his shortcomings and explained why Garcia makes the Eagles a much better team. For good measure, the screed railed against Reid for being a lousy coach (who only won because he inherited great players from Ray Rhodes) who has finally seen the light in the last three weeks. I think Jody Mac was only throwing it out there for conversation, not endorsing the essay, and I don't know or care who wrote it (when a street corner lunatic tells me that fluoride in my water is giving my kids ADHD, I don't write his name down so I can cite him in future research, either).
I couldn't write a better parody of incoherent football reasoning if I tried. Anyone with eyes can see that McNabb is a better quarterback than Garcia – not a better athlete, not a better option for the future because he's younger, but a better quarterback. Anyone who paid even a little attention to the Eagles over the last three weeks knows that the team could easily be 6-8 right now without changing a thing that Garcia did: just have Keyshawn Johnson outjump Lito Sheppard and get the Redskins to convert in the red zone in the fourth quarter, and the same geniuses who have anointed Garcia a winner would be clamoring for A.J. Feeley. I'm thrilled (and somewhat shocked) at how well Garcia has played, but I have seen his faults and failings in the past three weeks, the interceptions that bounced off defenders' hands, the throws behind receivers, the wobblers, the "buy time" dances in the pocket that will turn into sacks once teams adjust to him. He's no McNabb. Not even close. And he doesn't have any magical "winner" properties.
So let me phrase a more rational, realistic question. Say the Eagles make the playoffs and lose in one of the first two rounds. What do they do about Garcia, and what does that say about the team? If that happens, I say we re-sign Garcia to back up McNabb. If McNabb is slow to rehab his knee, then we give Garcia a start or two. And the moment McNabb can plant and cut and do all of those things, we give Garcia a baseball cap and put the real quarterback in.
And if Garcia gets us a Super Bowl, we do the same darn thing.
But if/when the Eagles fall short, we should realize that this season was an absolute vindication of Reid's system. Look at the offensive line. Look at the secondary. Look at the front seven on defense … well, don't, but at least the team's problems are localized. If the Eagles finish 10-6 with Garcia, they would easily have gone 11-5 with McNabb: either give them the Titans game back or take away the miracle field goal. That is sustained success, with 2005 written off as an injury-and-distraction ridden blip. You don't throw that away for a three-game hot streak. For me, the thought that this team is on the right track is a lot more satisfying than a pre-fab quarterback controversy.
mike i agree with your feelings about the eagles . i just don't understand your loyalty to donaven mcnabb for years there has been smoke concerning his leadership role with his teamates. furthermore who gave him god like credentials.. he is on IR and should not be a topic of conversation.. garcia is a tough cat who has the young players on fire you never ever saw that with mcnabb it was always his team HIM HIM HIM ME ME ME ...... TO may be a jerk but when he knocked mc nabb about leadership and quitin issues maybe he was not far off... this is the first time i have seen Andy havin fun as a coach.. TO took his shots at garcia but is not as dumb as he looks.. he will keep his mouth shut or else the boys know they are in for a dog fight .. it's good to see my friends from south philly fired up about the eagles again ... GARCIA MAKES IT FUN AGAIN MAYBE IT'S THE ROCKY THING...TIME WILL TELL AND YOU WILL HAVE MCNABB BACK AGAIN NEXT YEAR .. SO LETS HOPE FOR A COUPLE OF BREAKS ... YO EAGLES...YO ROCKY... YOU MARKY MARK
Mike, I don't understand what has you so heated about the Eagles quarterback thing. Sure, McNabb is a great quarterback, one of the best in the league, but that doesn't mean Garcia is a slob like Rex Grossman. And look at what he's doing with his team. He has to be one of the worst quarterbacks in the league, and everyones on the Chicago bandwagon about how they are just going to walk through the NFC playoffs? And yes, I do believe McNabb will be back starting next year, but I also believe that if McNabb's recovery takes us into the season that Garcia will play as long as he's doing as well as he's doing right now. And as for them winning the Super Bowl... It's definately a possibility. Why would Chicago be able to win it with thier awful quarterback and the Eagles not be able to when thiers is playing great football. And you whine about Garcia not having what it takes because he threw interceptions? Show me a great quarterback in the NFL that hasn't. And when I compare him to quarterbacks like Peyton Manning, I'd have to say I'd rather have him throw 1 TD & 1 INT and only 150 yards and the eagles win, then do like Peyton and throw for 300 yards, 3 TD 1 INT and lose the game. The simple thing is that Garcia is a winner, and as long as the Eagles play the way they are now, the way they have been capable of playing all season, they have just as much shot to win the Super Bowl as anyone in the NFC.
The issue here is not that the Bears can win with Grossman. The issue is that McNabb is a much better quarterback than Garcia. The fact that Garcia is winning doesn't mean squat: Kyle Orton won 9 straight games as a rookie last year, and 10 overall... and he got sent straight to the bench as soon as Grossman could play. Grossman, by the way, is nowhere near the worst QB in the league... to see to the worst QB's in the league, look at Oakland, Minnesota, Cleveland, San Fransisco, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Carolina (yes, Delhomme is a terrible QB, he's a turnover waiting to happen), and even Green Bay, as it's obvious that Farve is barely a shell of his former self these days. Besides, anybody who's on the Chicago bandwagon (which includes me, but by default, as I'm originally from Chicago and they've been my team for as long as I can remember) isn't on it because of Grossman, they're on it because the defense is simply astounding, or was until three weeks ago. How did Chicago win in 1985? They did it with a crushing defense and just enough offense to squeak by. (Well, when you have Walter Payton in the backfield, who needs a quarterback?) How did the Ravens win in 2000? Crushing defense and Jamal Lewis. If the Bears can get the defense back to playing the way they were at the beginning of the season, and get Jones or Benson to finally play to their potential, it's a straight shot to the Superbowl. Even "All he does is win, baby" Garcia won't have a chance to slow 'em down.
Oh, by the way, I just checked the passing stats through Week 16. Grossman is tied for 3rd in TD passes, with 23. You know who he's tied with? Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Marc Bulger. Only Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning have thrown for more TD's. Granted, Grossman has 17 picks, but Eli Manning has 18. Farve has 17 picks, Kitna has 21, and Roethlisberger has 22. And we all know how much better Eli Manning is than Roethlisberger... Please.
The funny thing is, McNabb's stats were pretty darn good: 18 TD's, 6 picks, 2,647 yards and a 95.5 passer rating, which is still good enough for 5th overall in the league. Garcia is third, at 96.6. Oh wow, let's make him the starting QB next season, he is SO much better than McNabb!
Look at TO's body of work - to borrow the words of The Big Aristotle: a "Benedict Arnold" has ZERO credibility. Mind you - TO said the same #### about Garcia in San Francisco!
Scorpious:
Don't worry - just get the D back on track, and you're gold. Does anyone think Garcia and the Eagles D can keep this up for 3 straight weeks, without faltering? I don't, and that's most likely the only way they're getting to the SB. As far as the only other threat, Dallas: the Romo has come back to Earth and that offense looks a lot like it did at the beginning of the season. Says here that the Bears are going to the SB and this year's NFC brings back memories of the post-Bills, pre-Broncos AFC ineptitude of the early and mid-90s.
Spot on. McNabb has one too many games for the Eagles, with marginal suport, to even have to lsiten to this - but I know he'll have to. For the record, The faster, stronger, McNabb led the Eagles to gaudy numbers in the first 5 weeks. No, he does not appear to be as ebulliant as Garcia, but that is not cause to even discuss his job status. What his injury has done is force the Eagles not to rely on McNabbs arm, but develop a balanced attack. Thats how Elway finally got his ring. McNabb gives the Eagles the best chance to win a game. With an improved runnign game, the odds improve - this year, or any year.
Unfortunately, I would tend to agree with you at this point, the Bears are in a bad spot right now. Ever since Brown went down, the Bears run defense has started to falter, and now with Harris out it's like a sieve. I think the problem is the Bears are falling into this mentality of "Well, no matter what goes wrong, we still win". That won't work if they face the Saints in the conference championship. I don't think the Bears will have much trouble dispatching whichever craptasic team wins the wildcard round though. They've already beaten the Giants, the Eagles don't have much left in the tank, and the Cowboys look like they don't know which way is up right now. Who else might they play, the Seahawks, who they utterly destroyed earlier this season? I think the Cowboys and Eagles both will be eliminated in the first round, unless of course they end up playing eachother. (Has anybody else noticed that the NFC East might send three teams to the playoffs? A Giants win locks them in as a wildcard, if I'm not mistaken?) The only team that truely scares me as an opponent for the Bears is the Chargers. But if the Bears can eliminate L.T. and make Rivers beat them, they have a good chance at winning. The Seahawks kept it close all game last week and didn't let L.T. get going, and Rivers couldn't get it going most of the game. Baltimore is the AFC's Bears: Sputtering offense, elite defense. I wouldn't be suprised to see a Bears-Baltimore Superbowl decided by a field goal at the end of overtime and the final score being 3-0.
Oh yeah, and Tiger... when McNabb had that sports hernia last season and played like 7 games with it... how is that quitting? You're way off base with your comments. McNabb is tougher than Garcia's ever been. Garcia is just benefiting from playing in a system he's comfortable with, behind an excellent O-line, with a top-end runningback, and a defense that can shut down 2/3rds of the teams in the league. How can he NOT win a few games?
As an Eagles' fan, I think McNabb is one of the elite quarterbacks in the league. Yes, his accuracy is questionable at times, but he is better than 97% of the other quarterbacks in the league. Since he was the first player drafted by Reid (and drafted to lead the franchise into the future), he was expected to be the man and has lived up to expectations. However, I believe the one problem with having McNabb as quarterback is the team and coaches rely on him too much. They expect him to do everything and believe he can will them to victory all by himself. Consequently, other players may feel, "Okay, we can make mistakes because Donovan will save the day by himself." When Garcia came in, I think the players realized they are going to have to step it up because Donovan won't be around to save their butts when they err. That's why you see everyone picking it up a notch, and that includes Reid. Now he knows he can't throw it 65% of the time with Garcia and must run it more. Lo and behold, the running game has produced yards in the past month. The defense starts making goal-line stops because they know the offense won't score 30 or 40 a game. As I said before, McNabb is the starting quarterback and should not be benched/traded/knocked off or anything like that. However, I believe everyone is picking up the slack because Garcia is not McNabb. It is akin to people going blind and their other senses have to work harder to compensate for the significant loss.
Last edited by bigworm719 on December 27th at 2:41 PM.
Jeff Garcia's touchdowns thrown per game started is slightly less than McNabbs (1.55 vs. 1.50) but his QB rating is slightly higher. McNabb has gone to 5 pro bowls, Garcia 3. Garcia's best year he threw for 4278 yards and 33 TDs. McNabb best was 3875 yards and 31 TDs. McNabb has rushed 2700 yards to Garcia's 1800 but they've rushed for an equal amount of TDs, 24.
They've played the same number of years in the NFL. Perhaps if Garcia played the last two years for better teams the stats may be even closer.
I don't think people realize how good Jeff Garcia is. Regardless of what happens the remainder of the year, Eagles fans should thank their lucky stars they can even have this conversation.
Garcia is the real deal. Eagles fans should be talking about how the team can get both back next year. They'd make a great tandem. Go Garcia.
You people are unbelievable. Jeff Garcia had a brother drown when he was 6 and a sister die from a car accident when he was 8. I think he can handle your petty comments and TO's words of wisdom. That man is nothing but a punk. You should be proud of the way JG has carried himself. He represents Philly with class, win or lose. Save the QB debate till next year.
no way in hell do the eagles get rid of Mcnabb. jarcia should be traded if anyone... POINT is the eagles go better not because of garcia,, because andy is being more gutsy with play calling,,, he decided to start this with garcia.... which is what he will do next year with Mcnabb as starter, in which eagles will be very good,,, they will not trade garcia,, although they should, for a draft pick/ good run defender ( run defense stinks )because andy thinks he needs garcia although they have an OK 3rd string.... point = trade garcia next year ESPECIALLY if he wins the superbowl... to get something CONSISTANTLY great for garcia... because you know teams would be all over garcia, and when they find he only has a few more years in him, they will regret the trade, while phillys defensive young playmaker will be in his prime.
There are several reasons Garcia and The Eagles are winning right now. Almost everyone knows that Garcia is no McNabb, but he has something that McNabb didn't...an Andy Reid who was forced to run behind those huge behemoths on the front line. The Eagles are more balanced and therfore less predictable. They are actually running the ball pretty well and not just to the outside. This has prevented opposing "D's' from pinning their ears and going after Jeff. They now have to expect and respect the running game. A controlled passing game and an effective running game is finally what this offense is all about. What this running game rebirth has also done is led to more methodical drives which eat up more time on the clock to give the Defense more rest. A more rested defense and bringing Omar in at LB has helped in stopping the run. The sack production is less that what it should be, however, lately they are harassing the hell out of opposing QB's and that is often just as effective as a sack. Bottom line: The Eagles have figured out how to run and how to stop the run. If McNabb was there and experiencing the same balance on Offense and the improved Eagles Defense...it would probably be lights out NFL. Still, with Garcia (who is highly competent), they have as good a chance as anybody to get the Big Dance and yes even win it. This is the NFL and any given Sunday still applies.
Last edited by MooseOutlaw on December 30th at 1:22 AM.
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