Maybe someone out there which is a Vick supporter can enlighten us all. How much was the bond for the other three co-indictees? I certainly hope they got the same treatment as he. I wouldn't want him to get preferential treatment because he is an athlete.
All the supporters are saying he is being singled out. If you have the info, send the link. I am sure all us bad people that have "singled him out" as already being convicted would like to read the bond for them. After all it was his relatives, his house he never lived in and kennels he never ran. But why are none of them being indicted. Hmmm. And now an amended indictment to add more charges? Not looking good for the thug from Virginia is it?
Anyway, send the link unless of course they got a bond to post and it was because of the charges they face. Doesn't make sense does it? They were all indicted but Vick doesn't get a bond and they would? Now that wouldn't make sense since they all are indicted, so spare me the preferential treatment #### he wouldn't be getting.
My favorite part was the lawyer reading a statement 'in Michael's own words.'
The verbage was clearly not Vick's. So the lawyer is lying to us early; what's new.
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com /news/13759674/detail.html
U.S. Magistrate Dennis Dohnal, in releasing the defendants without bond, said the judicial system is grounded on the principle that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty "no matter how heinous the allegations may be."
I tried to discuss and educate dehbashi but it has become more and more glaringly apparant the man is a heathen. An infidel. He does support dog fighting. A pox on you and your family sir.
Dang it. I said I won't argue today, Outlaw. I was hoping no one will say anything about me. I'm not going into this issue today. Maybe tomorrow if you want to go another round. Today I don't want to get involve with arguing about Vick and Dog fighting.
That's it. You are basically calling me an atheist. That's crossing the line. Why because I'm trying to defend someone who may be innocent. If I support dog fighting, I would be doing petition or trying to encourage people to dog fight. I just said I don't care if someone does it. That's call being neutral. What are you trying to be, George Bush? "You are with us or you are against us."
Deadgrunt wanted to know from a Vick Supporter if the other defendants had to post bond or not. I just gave him the link and the sentence in the article what it said. I was going to leave but you had to do this.
Also today, did any of the comment on Vick blogs have a comment on dog fighting? None whatsoever. I may have answer one guy saying his punishment should be too harsh and that's it. I didn't want to get into today. That's why I never finished reading Christopher Ross's blog because I knew it would tempt me to defend myself.
I repeat, DO NOT EVER in any way, shape or form call me atheist.
dehbashi..I still don't see anything about the bond for the others though. slshusker is correct, as far as the bond issue, it is dependent on the crime, flight risk and menace to society. He did surrender his passport! Many times, bond is set so high that if they have money they can post it, but because it is set so high it's a moot point. Others have an ROR (released on own recognisance, cash surety or secured bond). I don't see where OneLastOutlaw called you an atheist or anything of the sort. It was pointed out (and you have even done so in my other blogs), that you are defending Vick. That is fine and your right. I haven't found where the bond was set for the other guys. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in this country is the justice system and even guilty people like OJ slide through. It's not a perfect system, but it is equal. We can decide guilt or innocent if we want because this is the court of public opinion and that is your right. But I think slshusker and OneLastOutlaw make some valid points in their statements. (Still looking for the actual info for actual bonds though.)
We had the same discussion last night and I don't see anything about the others. I am as big a Falcon fan as you can get. Have the tattoo on me to prove it, but I am not only saddened by Vick's immaturity. He is supposed to be a man, but I read the indictment again and now there ae more charges that will be filed. This is atrocious. We worked the redeye flight from LA to Atlanta and I have never had one topic last that whole flight. Our season now revolves around Joey Harrington. Joey is a baby kangaroo!! We are sunk this year.
deadgrunt,
What this boils down to is the "Humpty Dumpty Effect." Everyone is on the wall and you either fall for, or against Vick. I just noticed where dehbashi said he is being call an atheist. Sir, she did nothing of the sort and you do defend Vick in so many blogs. Then, when you go to a blog you get outnumbered or more people disagree with you or your point of view, you try to use either the "you called me this" or "race card." Maybe your mentality of the perception if the truth and relaity is just as twisted as Vick's.
Aiight Big Boi this is how it works. Momma said open your mouth and remove all doubt right? Well that's what you're doing right now with this post. But that doesn't mean you're ignorant, just that you're uninformed, which is the definition of ingonrant, so maybe you are ignorant to this fact.
This is how bond works. When people post bond int he federal system, it goes by a few factors. Those factors being:
1. Are you are a habitual offender.
2. Nature of the offense.
3. The amount of time associated with said offense.
All of these factors play together, along with your personal history, to determine your "risk".
Example 1: A college student caught with hacking computers that is facing 18 months will probably get the same type of signature bond that Vick got. Because they are no threat to the public, and they are pretty much gonna do their time and not going to run. They'll also probably be allowed to self surrender when the time come for their sentence.
Conversly
Example 2: Guy with no job, with priors for posession gets busted with 5 grams of crack on his third strike would be lucky to even get bond because that is a good formula for someone to risk running.
Vick falls into a different category all together. Even if he did run, where would he go. He can go NOWHERE in this world where people would not recognize him and/or turn him in. His profession is Football which is played on TV so it's not like he could work and make or spend money without them knowing where he was. If he did run, all they would have to do is freeze his accounts,
which I'm sure are already being monitored and as soon as a withdrawl or purchase is made, BAM they got him.
So you see, there is no special treatment here. That's the beauty of the federal system. EVERYONE is treated the same way. As a matter of fact, the judge doesn't even have any power in terms of sentencing. They have a system of "level" that takes the nature of the crime and determines your sentence. With this being a MAX 6 year sentence. It's likely that if he pleas to something lesser that sentence will only carry a max of about 18-36 months. He'll get the "low" end because this is his first offense and with all the donward departures, he might get something similar to Jamaal Lewis or just probation. That's ONLY if he pleas or is found guilty. And you know what, if it were you, you'd be treated the EXACT same way. That is, unless you got some priors we don't know about?
And Peach. Yeah you're right. We just might be done this year. There are two things I cannot see.
1. Vick getting out of this one unscathed.
2. Joey Harrington winning more than 2 or 3 games this year.
Honestly, I don't think we would have been all that good this year even if we had Vick. What do you think? These are just the facts. I wonder if it's too late to get Culpepper. Guess we'll see.
Then obviously no one knows what an infidel means. It means you either have doubts or do not believe in any religion. Dictionary.com can do some help for you.
Also read what the topic of deadgrunt's post was about. He wanted to know if there was a link if there was bond posted for the other defendants. As my link shows, there wasn't any preferential treatment. They all didn't have to post bond. I just answered his question.
Bashi, no need to get upset. YOu can't help it when you're right. People don't wanna hear the truth. The only way that people could understand your "down the middle" attitude about this is if they've been in a situation similar to this themselves. That's for some people, not everyone. Anyway, I can't say if he's innocent or guilty. I do say that it doesn't look good by the way that the indictment is written. I'll also say that I too will reserve judgement until I have more facts. At least until they come forth with the discovery.
For those that have no idea, that's when the prosecution presents ALL the evidence that they have against you so that you may have the opportunity to mount an effective defense.
Either way, it's gonna be tough, and it's not for me to decide. Espeically now because we honestly have ZERO facts to go on.
Essentially all we know is: Vick bought a house. His buddies had some dogs there. His buddies bred and fought the dogs. We honestly at this point have NOTHING tying him to the case other than his owning the property. I'm not saying that he didn't know anything, I'm just saying. That's all we really know.
Anyway, Bashi, I never saw you play race. Shoot you and I were some of the biggest ones saying it had nothing to do with race on the other blog. So hey. No need to get bent outta shape. Just roll with the punches because in all situations, including this case, NO matter the outcome, The truth alway comes out in the end.
deadgrunt
From what I understand they've all been indicted but to varying degrees under the charges that were brought before the grand jury. Vick being also the only one who doesn't have a criminal record may also have played a part in the bond criteria and how things were availed. My thinking is how Vick will try and extricate himself from all of this and what defense strategy will be put forward by his attorney BillY Martin ? Known associates of his and it's not as if he can fully say that he was totally unaware as to complexity as to the setup of the business. As his signature is allegedly on the incorporation documents for the dog breeding business. From thereon in it may well be pure speculation on the path of the prosecution but as they say ' where there's smoke there's fire'. For Vick at the moment it looks like a forest fire and he's stuck right in tghe midst of it. And if any of his accomplices should turn state's evidence against him. Then he'll be up the river without so much as a paddle.
Although Deh and I mos def disagree on MV, I gotta come to his defence on this one. 1st, the post asked for a link and whether or not the other defendants had to post bond. Deh responded with exactly what was asked for with a link to a web page and a quote from the article that said the DEFENDANTS (note that it is plural, which implies all) were released without bond. He was quoting the judges words from the article, not inserting his opinion. OLast did call him a heathen and infidel, both of which mean unbeliever/atheist. Up to that point deh kept repeating he didn't want to get into it today.
Look, if someone starts namecalling on me I'm prolly gonna defend myself too, or depending on the situation, just walk away (choose your battles). I don't agree with Deh, I feel dog fighting is worth being ticked about, and I believe there is enough "circumstantial" evidence out there, not necessarily to convict MV, but for a rational thinking individual to reach a conclusion. D and others disagree with my opinion, but so what? I ain't gonna resort to name calling over it.
Jai_Eazy, sorry for the emotions. I just didn't like him calling me an athiest.
TroyFan, I know we have our differences with Michael Vick at this time, but thanks for the backup.
Vic needs some seriuos help!! to do what he did to an animal is not only cruel but ignorant. why doesn't he enter a cage fight a man until one gives up and if he does not win let someone beat him until he dies!! for him to do this to any animal is just wrong and to call himself a man !! what man seeks joy in seeing to animals fight till death. hopefully he gets jail time and the same as what he did to the dogs willhappen to him being in a cageand fighting is no joke.
I have given him the legal system of innocent until proven guilty. Now there is super-ceding indictment. Vick has the money, so no fine is gonna hurt him. Remember, the defendents will also have to face the trial with their attorneys and that might not be good for them, or Vick. They will be asked many times and offered an opportunity to "turn evidence on Vick." November might seem like a long time, but it isn't. Everyday will be indated with Vick issues and if they get in any kind of trouble, it is going to make everything so much worse. How much fun is it to know that I get to go to federal trial two days before Thanksgiving? Weee. I think he knows so much and eventually his pride will get in the way. Unlike OJ, he doesn't get to have four idiots trying to prosecute him and these feds didn't taint the crime scene. These are federal prosecutors and if you ever get the chance, go to any federal courthouse and watch how the evidence is presented. A 95% conviction and/or plead out is nothing to joke about.
And Jai_Eazy, John David Booty or Colt Brennan or Chad Henne are looking like they could be in Atlanta next year. I am not too thrilled about Joey Harrington. What's your views on Culpepper? I would take an injured Culpepper over a healthy Harrington anyday of the week.
Last edited by badflatulence on July 27th at 2:31 PM.
Unless the fed’s have something concrete saying he was there, meaning a cell phone conversation made during the time in which a dog fight was taking place on the property, he signed his signature to any pieces of paper bank rolling the operation, a video tape of him at a dog fight or a video tape of him in the act of harming or killing a dog. Without that, the feds got nothing.
"Innocent until proven guilty" is for the criminal courts . . . however, the court of public opinion is not so cushy. Imagine if you did something to embarass your co-workers/boss/company. If you tried to say "innocent until proven guilty", it would be laughed out of the door, just like you.
Don't confuse the rights you have in criminal court with the fact that you'll be fired if you screw up and make your company look bad.
Neptune...Cell phone calls can be made from anywhere and do not constitute guilt. There are three others indicted and not sure if you read the indictment or not. Interstate boundaries were crossed and that is a felony. A superceded indictment also isn't great to have. I hardly think the feds would base their hole case on whether he called from the fight pit on a cell phone. There are three co-defendents that if any roll over and testify isn't good as that isn't hearsay, that is sworn eyewitness testimony. Also, just maybe, what if there were undercover federal agents at those fights? Wow, imagine that - what a novice idea. An actual federal agent in undercover and documenting everything. I will place my money on the feds since this isn't the LAPD dicking up a crime scene so Johnny Cochrane can make them look stupid. This is a four year plus investigation and I will bet everything has been documented. And do you really think dehbashi really needs you to have "got his back on the next round?" I didn't know it was a tag-team opinion, but maybe that is what you are into. Debashi does quite well without a bodyguard. Keep blogging dehbashi and let mini-me go play with the children his own age.
Yea, Johnny, Dehbashi doesn't need any more friends. It's hard enough getting him to show up without someone aiming a bullseye at him. Play nice flat and john.
Having a bullseye on me? Makes sense. I am usually in the minority when it comes to deciding things. By the way deadgrunt, did my link answer your question?
But honestly I agree with you. That's why I said we should wait until the discovery. We don't know what they have. I'll be honest. I had charges brought before me once. And yeah it was the big bad Fedz. My roommate was into some ill stuff and they indicted me too. I got off because I honestly didn't know anything. I was able to prove that.
1. I was never there, I just paid half the rent because I was in GA taking care of my sick grandmother.
2. I knew none of the people he dealt with and none of them knew me.
See, in a case like this, they're gonna come at everyone that they can. The conspiracy umbrella makes it really tough because you just don't know what angle they're gonna try to tie you in on. If you even had a hint of what was going on, you're toast. That's the part that is killing him here. 10 times out of 9 the fedz are gonna play the angle that the operation cost "X" amount of dollars to keep going and implicate Vick as the source. That's what's gonna make it hard because when they tie him in to the conspiracy he'll get what the "worst" person gets, except he won't get the same deal if they roll over. That's why I say it doesn't look good.
The superceding indictments mean nothing either. Like I said. I had 2 in my case that never came to light because they said they had been investigating him for 2 or 3 years and noone EVER came to our residence, thus NONE of his affilates could identify me. So it didn't even go to court. They totally threw the case out.
He on the other hand went down and he wasn't even involved as much as the said. He was just a low level weed man. And got 4 years because they worst person on his case was a crack dealer that got the manditory minimum of 5 years. So since the conspiracy was to attempt to posess and distribute crack, that's what he plead to. He had no choice. I do however applaud him for standing up and telling them that I had NOTHING to do with it when he could have implicated me and cut a deal. Not everyone would do something like that. So you see, that 95% isn't all that impressive when you think about it like this
95% isn't saying they win a lot of cases. It's saying that they only push the cases that they think they can win. And if you really wanna be honest. That number is closer to like 97% depending on the nature of the case. They just threaten you with so much time that you'll plea to anything that give you less time. That's the game they play.
And to support what my man said. Even though I never went to trial and I was ultimately dismissed. Yes I did get fired from my job for being on the 11 oclock news. And yes, that arrest left a mark on my record that made it hard for a long time to get a job. But hey, I should have been more mindful of the people I was hanging around.
And I'd take Eric Crouch playing QB at this point. Just please don't make me watch with Joey Harrington this year.
Dehbashi, the "target" is that you seem to take a lot of heat also for being neutral and some people need a "for us" or "for them" mentality. You hold your own and don't need any backup. I did see the post, so thank you very much.
Jai_Eazy can give you first hand knowledge of the process and experience is the greatest instructor I believe. Honestly, I am the one that approaches the suspect, identifies myself and shows the credntials. It is a scarey feeling I am sure, correct me if I am wrong Jai.
Another good point Jai made was, let's say for instance (after you read that link I just put up on my blog about someone "rolling over) about the report that Vick had his buddy get a bookbag with $23,000 cash in it to pay for a lost bet.
So in the $23,000 scenario, the guy rolling over said it took place on or about 18 June 05 (we feds love the dates and times) on or about 1030 in the morning. The banks and credit union are required by law to enter into a SAARs (Serious Account & Activities Report) any activity in which a amount of $10,000 is withdrwan for cash operations. Not a cashiers check for purchases, but cash acceptance.
That is the easy part for the feds. We say if that was o/a 18 June 05, lets get a financial incident and activities report for all his activities from the 90 to 180 days prior to that. If there were monetary withdrawals during that time close to or equalling that amount we raise the flag.
Then when they say something to the extent, I bought this or that, we say where and how much and then follow those leads and build the case. It is only a matter of time and if you withhold any information or lie, that only makes it worse. Eventually, give plenty of rope and they will get caught in a lie. It is amazing how when someone "rolls over" how all the pieces fall into place.
Flatulence – I’ll break it down for you, any tech head knows that a cell phone acts as a GPS when you make a phone call, the telephone towers must triangulate your position to accept the call and they can pull phone records to see where those phone calls came from, providing they could pick up a signal, ask any 911 dispatch office and they’ll tell you the same thing.
From the start, Vick has said he wasn’t there, he didn’t know what was going on and he didn’t have anything to do with it. If a cell phone conversation can place him at the house during the time in which a fight was taking place on the premises, game over. If the feds only witnesses are a bunch of clowns with rap sheets longer then the Great Wall of China doing the he say she say two step, then they have no case. Also, Vick can never take a plea in all of this because if at any time he admits to knowing anything about this, that means he lied from the start and they’re going to get ‘em. Right now, the best thing he can do is to keep his mouth shut and keep a low profile.
Then, let's say he says, "Okay, I have been placing bets on fights and that's the truth." We say, "For how long?" He may say, "since 2002." We say, "Okay stop there and I would like you to meet Mister Jones of the IRS. He has all your income tax filing statements for the last 8 years." Then Mister Jones says, "Sir, I would like you to verify this is your social security number and signature." Once confirmed, Mister Jones says, "On behalf of the Internal Revenue Service, I would like to inform you that you have filed no gambling taxable income statements are hereby under investigation by the IRS for tax evasion penalties and I will be contacting you again. Thank you and have good day." Then he walks out and the accused says to himself, "What the #### just happened."
Correct me if I am wrong Jai_Eazy, but is it not a scarey and lifestyle changing encounter. Jai was not tried or convicted and totally acquitted of any charges, but his job and life were altered because of it. There are sleepless nights, possible prison time and you are talked about and scorned as guilty regardless whether you were or not by co-workers. And from the sounds of it will he never get that back. Once implicated Jai, did it not consume your every moment awaiting chance to be proven not as a cohort with the guy?
Neptune, he could also say he gave his phone to an associate and that proves nothing. After all, he said he was never at the house either! It isn't only triangulation, it is SAT-17 and utilizes the military's Universal Transverse Mercator military grid reference system (UTM) for the triangulation, since it uses the military satellites to pickup the signal. All the mobile/cell, to include satellite phones are tracked at the Fort Huachuca, Arizona Signal facility. So just saying he should be able to defend himself if his cell phone wasn't at the site is weak. I would hope that's not what you think his alibi is. Also, check out the link on the other post about one of his co-conspirators possibly "rolling over" this week. That wouldn't be good since it would be first hand eyewitness account of him being there and shoot a whole in the "grassy knoll cell phone" conspiracy theory you eluded to.
Deadgrunt - the cell phone was an example, I’m not saying that’s his alibi, all I’m saying is the feds better have something concrete and I’m pretty sure his lawyers anticipated the fact that one if not all of the three stooges were going to turn on him to save their own rear ends.
You're right grunt. Totaly lifestyle change. That's why I don't have sympathy for either he, Pac-Man, or Tank right now. Because I lost my job and wasn't convicted and honestly don't feel like they are any different. I don't agree with the whole circus that's going on, but the media has to get it's ratings somewhere and since Tim Donaghy, who faces much more time in an much more serious crime, is not as popular, this is the sexiest story out there right now. Like I said, if it were #### Bavetta, Joey Crawford, or Ed Hoculeigh, it' would be a HUGE story, but since it's just a guy nobody knows or cares about. It's not as big a ratings getter than even Barry BALCO and that story is about a guy, NEVER indicted, NEVER tested bad, and still is under fire.
But man let me tell you. The cell phone thing is dead. Ask Jamaal Lewis. The phone is not to know where you were in a case like this. It's to do 3 things.
1. Confirm you idenity.
2. Confirm your knowledge of illegal activity.
3. Determine your level of involvement.
That's all they wanna do with the phone taps if they have them. But see in the feds the burdon of proof is so little. I don't think you fellas know how serious this is.
Let me break it down. Read the indictement an see how many times you see conspiracy on the first page. Conspiracy is the most feared word in the criminal world because you can get charged and convicted with it and just have bought a dime bag of week from someone.
Use the bank account example. If they prove that the guys bet
$23,000 and that Vick through his main or any combination of accounts withdrew that much. He's toast. You basically funded the operation. The hardest part would be to prove what the money was for. What? They can't do that you say. I got news for you, they don't have to. All they have to do is put a couple of those dates together with the bank statements and that's enough. Basically if the defendants say the dog fights happened and if they see big withdrawls in a certain time zone, without verification of where the money went, that's all they need. Plus in conspiracy, it only takes 2 people that knew you were in it to say. Yeah that's that guy. And it's over baby. Don't take much with the people he's dealing with.
I wish everyone could see how little it takes to be found guilty in a case like this. You'd be surprised. When I say you can't win, I mean you really cannot win. Like Grunt said. Even if he walks on the Dog Fighting charges. They'll get him on something even if it's just tax evasion. I promise you that. That's why the rate is so high.
I spent 10 months of my life running from what I thought was going to be a serious sentence and when they finally let me walk, I was so relieved. I but until they case was finally closed and my former roommate's time was over. I was still afraid someone would make a deal somewhere. It's never over even if you do walk until the last guy is done because someone will make a deal if they think they can. They want Vick bad in this one. I just really don't see him gettin out scott free.
Jai_Eazy..you unfortunately have seen it and how you were labeled a "bad person" eventhough the charges were unfounded in your case and are still paying for it. You now are a much smarter person for it and I am sure a much smarter person when it comes with whom you call friends. You seem to be rebounding much better and others should heed your warnings.
Just for this case and IF the guy is "rolling over" after all is done and he agrees to give the specifics and testify, here is what happens. They approach the other guy(s) that are indicted with Vick and tell them, "here is what happened, this guy is turning evidence over and you are implicated and validated as knowing. You were questioned, indicted and entered a not guilty plea. We have the evidence which is now validated, your earning statements and finances were monitored and yes, even the dates and times are now known as far as dealings with illegal activity. We have the monetary transactions received and transferred for the co-defendents and guess what?
Last edited by deadgrunt on July 28th at 12:05 PM.
We now can link you with all the others and are being testified against, which makes you a validated conspirator and also makes you an accomplice in the commission of a felony. Is there anything you would like to say, or would you also like to enter a plea rebuttal for leniency and possibly a lighter sentence in conjunction with testifying against Michael Vick and the other indictee, to which you are not promised anything. It will only be noted that you cooperated, but it is up to the lead prosecutor not us?" It is then which most everyone after hearing
I am amazed, as there hasn't been any of the last posts here using the race card to make a point. You have Jai_Eazy that has experienced first hand what it is like to go through this and he is telling people how it changed his lifestyle. Jai_Eazy, can you do us all a favor? Copy all that you wrote and place it into a new blog all together. Reference whatever you have to do with the blog here. Then, repost it every single day? Some of the people that are constantly saying it isn't serious, he will escape the charges or done nothing wrong and he will be fine need to understand the process. You have deadgrunt enlightening us on how they (feds) do it (I didn't have a clue before), but you both do (from opposite sides of the fence) and that stuff you both posted is incredible. Great comments all.
I'll be a man about it and say that I was definitely naive when it came to the feds and the burden of proof, I should have known better because I went through a similar experience in the Army. It reminds me of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, once you've been charged with a crime in the military, that's it; there aren't any loop holes or gray areas, and a conviction is all but a guaranteed.
Retired military now with another Federal Government Agency. Are thankful to have served with many great soldier and will continue to have my
www.deadgrunt .com
military service site up and running, regardless of how many emails the DoD sends me asking me not to! I am a Michigan sports fan and Charles White did not cross the goal line in the Rose Bowl before he fumbled.
