The retirement that just won’t seem to go away has taken a strange turn of events over the last week. Brett Favre has now decided that he would like his helmet or his unconditional release so that he may resume his career with someone other than the Green Bay Packers. I have been wanting to post something about this article for about a week, but I wanted to wait for Favre’s interview with Greta Van Susteren to finish airing so that I could write the article having heard both sides of the story.
This is a difficult topic for me to address objectively. While I know more about the Packers than any other team, Brett Favre is just about the only quarterback I have ever seen start for the Green Bay Packers. I started following the NFL in the 1989 season. Having grown up in Wisconsin it doesn’t take a great leap of logic to figure out that the Packers would be the team I ended up following. While I am well educated in the Lambeau and Lombardi eras I wasn‘t born yet. Favre became the starter just three seasons after I started watching football. He has been my favorite player on my favorite team for about as long as I have been following the NFL.
Brett Favre and the Green Bay Packers have had a very interesting marriage over the years. The Packers have won more games than any team in the NFL since he took his first snap, 160 wins to be exact. He has set just about every career NFL passing record, good and bad that a quarterback could hope to set. He has won three consecutive MVP awards from 1995-1997. In the process he became not just a popular NFL quarterback, but also an American icon. Other than Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods he is as popular as any athlete of his generation.
He also has had his negatives. Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods are not only popular but two of the biggest champions in the history of professional sports. The Packers have won only one Super Bowl in #4’s career, which was back in 1996. A large part of that can be attributed to a declining defense that began when Reggie White left the team in 1998. The Packers have had very few quality defenses since then.
Still, Brett Favre does not entirely escape blame. Many of his 288 career interceptions have come in the second half of his career. He had a six-interception playoff game against the Rams in 2001 and a four-interception playoff game against the Vikings in 2004. He threw an interception in overtime against the Philadelphia Eagles in 2002 and against the New York Giants in 2007 that contributed to the Packers defeats in those playoff games.
That sometimes inconsistent play combined with his annual retirement saga that has dominated the winter Wisconsin sports scene since 2005 has caused many Packer fans to wish that even a thing as great as Brett Favre would just come to an end. I have listened to many a post game show on the Packer radio network. Every time Brett Favre has played poorly there is a segment of the Packer Nation that has called for him to be replaced. It does not surprise me that the Packer Nation is so divided now that this latest twist has materialized. Many outsiders believe that Packer fans are in 100% support of Favre. That has not been the case for many years. To all the Packer fans that want to go on with Aaron Rodgers for whatever reason I would make this simple point. Since 1996 there have been only 8 franchises out of 32 that have even won a Super Bowl. Since 1996 Favre has led the Packers to one Super Bowl appearance, two NFC Championship Games where the Packers went 1-1, and four divisional round games where the Packers went 2-2. While that may seem disappointing to you it is better than most of the teams in the NFL. Go complain to Cincinnati and Arizona fans about your poor fortune.
While it may be annoying to go through this soap opera every year what is even more annoying is not knowing which bad quarterback you are going to go with year in and year out. Talk to your favorite Bear fan. Ask him or her how it feels to debate between Cade McNown, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Chad Hutchinson, Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, and Brian Griese. Talk to your favorite Viking fan that thought Daunte Culpepper was the answer that Minnesota had been looking for all these years. About how he went from historically good in 2004 to historically irrelevant by 2005 in the prime of his career. Stop complaining about this retirement saga and how miserable it makes you. It shows how spoiled you have become by #4‘s greatness and the success it has brought the Green Bay Packers. Packer fans don’t have a right to complain about misfortunes in the Favre era when you stack the Packers up with other NFL franchises during that same period.
In fact if you don’t believe the Bears or Vikings fans talk to a Packer fan that watched football after the Lombardi era. From 1968 to 1992 the Packers won exactly one playoff game as they looked for Bart Starr’s replacement year after year. Since 1992 life has been pretty good in Green Bay. While it will be nice to one day not have to deal with this annoying retirement saga it will be ten times worse if the Packers spend 30 years looking for a replacement something that is not out of the realm of possibility. Be thankful the Packers own the rights to a future Hall of Fame quarterback. There aren’t many teams in the league that can make that claim.
For the non Packer fans I think it is important to understand the dynamics of this situation. Neither side is totally to blame and neither side is totally without fault. Let’s start with the case for Brett Favre. Ted Thompson was hired as the GM after the 2004 season. Favre was 35 years old at that time. He was coming off a season in which he started 16 games, threw for 4,088 yards, 30 touchdowns, 17 interceptions, and a 92.4 QB rating. The Packers went 10-6 and lost at home to the Vikings 31-17. He had one touchdown pass and four picks in that home loss. While he was dejected by the loss and would not immediately commit to coming back he did commit within a very short time after the playoff loss. It was nothing like we have seen the last three seasons.
Ted Thompson’s first pick in his first draft was used to select Aaron Rodgers. Favre was never impressed with that move. He wanted the Packers to win right now and did not see how taking a rookie QB in the first round was going to help the Packers win. The Packers were open about the fact that they wanted Favre to mentor Rodgers, something #4 never embraced. His response to that was that no one mentored him and his job was to win football games, not coach a young player. He said Rodgers should learn the same way he did; study the playbook and watch the veteran.
After a 4-12 season Mike McCarthy replaced Mike Sherman. He had been an assistant for the Packers in 1999, but had no previous head coaching experience. Favre had really hoped the Packers would go after Steve Steve Mariucci who had been Favre’s quarterbacks coach at the beginning of his career. The Packers never made an attempt to even interview him.
The Packers did sign Charles Woodson, but for the most part have been quiet in free agency since Thompson‘s arival. All of these moves made it clear that Green Bay was in a full blown rebuilding effort and cared little about Favre‘s input. They let veterans like Ahman Green, Javon Walker, Ryan Longwell, Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera, William Henderson, Vonnie Holiday, Na’il Diggs, and countless others go. That is something that Favre was critical of Thompson for, a thought he expressed in the On the Record interview. He thought Thompson made a mistake by getting rid of Rivera and Wahle.
That became even more evident after the 2006 season. The Packers had finished 8-8 and won their last four games of the regular season. Still, they let Ahman Green walk. Green was the best offensive weapon Favre had ever played with. Thompson failed to pull a trigger on the Randy Moss deal something Brett Favre wanted desperately. That decision further alienated Favre.
That is where I believe things didn’t go according to plan. The Packers had never envisioned they would go 13-3 in 2007, even if they had signed Moss. They never envisioned that Jennings and Grant would make that big of an impact. Favre was on the verge of setting records for career victories, touchdown passes, passing attempts, and yards. I believe the Packers thought he was going to have a year similar to 2006, the Packers would contend for a wildcard, and Favre would ride off into the sunset as the holder of the major individual passing records with no hope for a Super Bowl run in the near future.
Instead the Packers became one of several favorites to win the Super Bowl in 2008 coming off a 13-3 record with the youngest team in the league. Favre even stated in January that he was excited about the prospect of wanting to comeback for another year and not focusing on retirement.
Now let’s go to Ted Thompson’s point of view. He came to the Packers after the 2004 season. He was coming to a team that had gone 44-20 in the four previous seasons. However, they had gone 2-4 in the playoffs and had not advanced past the NFC Divisional Round. In 2003 and 2004 the team got off to very slow starts. The 2003 team started 3-4 before finishing 10-6. The 2004 team started 1-4 before finishing 10-6. The coaching staff and team didn‘t always appear to be on the same page. They had a lot of aging players. The offensive line was starting to get old. Ahman Green was in decline. The Packers had a 35 year old quarterback that was beginning to speculate about his retirement on a yearly basis.
The wheels fell off the wagon in 2005. The team was decimated by injuries and was 4-12. The trend has been to go with young assistant coaches and not retreads. Hiring McCarthy seemed like a good fit for a rebuilding effort. Brett Favre waited until April to announce that he was returning, which made that move make even more sense. Why bring a veteran head coach into that type of rebuilding project.
Ted Thompson had nothing left to do but strip the team and start rebuilding through the draft. He did a very good job of that. Thompson drafted AJ Hawk, Greg Jennings, James Jones, James Jolly, Mason Cosby, and Nick Collins. He rebuilt an aging offensive line. That was a great infusion of young talent. He fused those young players with an older quarterback.
While bringing in Randy Moss may have made his 37 year old quarterback happy, it could have brought a declining locker room cancer into a young team that would have had disastrous consequences not only in 2007, but for years to come. Even though Moss’s 2007 season proved Favre right about Moss, Ted Thompson had no way of knowing that Randy Moss would not come to Green Bay and be a locker room disaster and spoil a promising young team.
Ted Thompson has built a very strong nucleus and is a superstar young quarterback away from contending for Super Bowls for years to come. While he appreciates the history of the Green Bay organization he has no loyalty to #4. Thompson didn’t bring him in. He inherited Favre at 35 years old. His bigger responsibility is to make sure the Packers are prepared to compete in the NFL not only in 2008, but after Brett Favre is gone. Thompson’s job is not to keep a competitive team around Brett Favre for as long as he wants to play football at the expense of the organization.
That brings us to this offseason. I have no way of knowing this, but based on all the reports that have come out this is what I believe happened. I think Brett Favre made a mistake by retiring early and put the Packers in a difficult position by doing so. I also think Ted Thompson has lost his mind.
Let’s start with Favre. I think the Packers told Brett Favre that if he wanted to comeback he would be welcomed back by the organization. I also think Brett Favre was looking for more than that. I believe he wanted to hear that the Packers were appreciative of the great season he had given them and wanted to know that they were committed to him coming back. I also think he wanted to see them make a splash in free agency to go after that second title he has always wanted. He was burned out by the way the season came to an end. I believe that based on the tone of the conversations Brett Favre had with management he got the impression that the Packers were indifferent to him coming back in 2008 and wanted to only focus on the draft. They just wanted a decision one way or the other that would not drag past March.
Right or wrong, I don’t think Favre knew what he wanted to do then. Critics will say he should have known. I’m not sure that is entirely fair. Favre has brought that criticism on himself by turning his retirement into a public spectacle. However, he has always been honest. He stated in his On the Record interview that he was never a person that would commit to doing something he didn’t know he was 100% behind. Having watched him all these years I believe that. He could have taken his $10.00 million and hoped that he would find his passion, which he probably would have. That isn’t in his personality and I respect that about him. While I’m sure he enjoys making the money he plays for much more than that.
I think Favre decided that if the Packers were indifferent to him coming back he didn’t want to be in a place he wasn’t appreciated. I think their failure to go after Randy Moss for a second straight season sealed the deal in his mind and he decided that it made no sense to comeback to a place he was not appreciated and it wasn’t worth going to another team and starting over at age 38 going on 39. Based on where he was and where he believed the Packers were he decided to announce his retirement on March 04, 2008.
That retirement press conference was the most bizarre retirement press conference I have ever seen. It did not look like there was harmony. Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy spoke at a press conference without Favre. Favre, Wolf, and Harlan spoke the next day at the official press conference. It definitely gave the perception that it was the old guard vs. the new guard. That Brett Favre was part of the Packer’s past and that the current regime had no problem going on without him.
Then he had second thoughts. It started with the LA Times report that Favre’s agent was gauging teams interest in Favre via a trade. That report gained a lot of credibility in recent weeks. Then, Favre stated he wanted to comeback about a month after he announced his retirement. Thompson has confirmed that he and McCarthy were prepared to meet with Favre in late March, because #4 was interested in rescinding his retirement. Favre cancelled the meeting. It is reported that he told Thompson and McCarthy that he had changed his mind and instead wanted to stay retired.
I get all that. While it is unfortunate that Favre has put the Packers in this situation I can’t believe they are surprised this happened. McCarthy even stated that as football season got closer Favre would probably get the itch to play. Troy Aikman thought he would probably play again. While I think many people were hopeful that a change of mind would not happen, I can’t believe anyone is absolutely floored that all these events transpired. Seeing the Packers know Brett Favre and how emotional he can be about his football career and his tendency to be uncertain about his retirement I can‘t understand why they weren‘t better prepared for this very scenario unfolding.
The only thing I am confused about with Favre is this assistant coach talk. When Thompson was asked what role Favre would be coming back in and whether that role might be as a backup or coach, Thompson said: "not a coach." McCarthy added: "He did ask about that, though."
If that is true, I don’t understand that. How is that being 100% committed to coming back as the starter of the Packers? How can you say that you are committed and then inquire about an assistant coaching role in the same conversation? If that report is true Favre is behaving like someone that has absolutely no clue what he wants to do right now, something that did not come across in his On the Record interview on Monday. Based on that interview he wants to play. If #4 didn’t say that it is pretty shameful that McCarthy would make that up.
Then there is Thompson. He told the AP, ““We’ve communicated that to Brett, that we have since moved forward,” Thompson said Saturday, in his first public comments since Favre requested to be released this week. “At the same time, we’ve never said that there couldn’t be some role that he might play here. But I would understand his point that he would want to play.”
But then he told ESPN News Services, “"It's not accurate," Thompson said of the AP report that Favre would come back as a backup. "We don't know what role that would be. He can come back as an active member of the Green Bay Packers."
I don’t know which statement is more stupid. I’ll go with the comment to ESPN. You don’t know what role he would comeback in??? Is he going to play safety? Maybe he can punt? That’s insulting. The only role he could come back in as a quarterback and Thompson knows that.
That leads to the second comment. Do you really think that a guy who has played 253 consecutive regular season games would make for a good backup? Is that really a situation that would be good for the Packers? Is that going to protect the legacy of Brett Favre? Is that going to help develop Rodgers? Playing stupid isn’t fooling anyone, something that Thompson has shown a tendency for over the years. Be a leader. Pick a position or state that you don’t have one and need to speak to Favre’s camp and gather more information to formulate a position. But don’t give multiple foolish contradicting comments. That makes Thompson look foolish and insincere. His tendency to do that is one reason that he is very unpopular with a segment of the Packer Nation despite his other successes as a GM.
I think that there has been a breakdown in communication that has been caused by both sides distrust of the other. Because of that distrust of you are getting these conflicting positions. I believe they both want to do the right thing, but they don’t trust the other to follow through with his end of the bargain. Regardless of whom you ultimately blame this is a difficult position for both Favre and the Packers.
Many people have compared this situation to the Joe Montana / Steve Young saga that engulfed the Bay area in 1993. The only thing that is similar is the distrust between Joe Montana and the 49ers organization. He too wanted his starting job or to be released. The 49ers kept flip-flopping on what they wanted to do. The 49ers tried promising the starting position to both players. Otherwise there are very few similarities.
Let’s start with Favre. Favre is coming off a season where he started 16 games, threw for 4,155 yards, 28 touchdown passes and had a 95.7 rating. Montana missed the 1991 season and played the second half of the Detroit game in the last week of the 1992 season. While he had been a NFL MVP in 1989 and 1990, he had 126 yards passing and 2 touchdowns in 1991 and 1992 combined. Joe Montana was every bit the same legend in San Francisco that Brett Favre is in Green Bay. But Montana was 36-year-old quarterback going on 37 years old that had played one half of a football game in two seasons. Brett Favre was second in the MVP voting for the NFL in 2007.
Then there is Steve Young versus Aaron Rodgers. Steve Young started 11 games in 1991 and 16 games in 1992. He won the NFL MVP in 1992 with a 107.0 QB rating. He had 25 touchdown passes to 7 picks and had 3,465 passing yards. Steve Young had 42 touchdown passes in 1991 and 1992. Aaron Rodgers had 59 pass attempts over the last 3 seasons. He has 329 career passing yards and 1 touchdown pass in seven career games none of which were starts.
When the 49ers had to decide whether to get rid of Steve Young or Joe Montana they had to choose between keeping a 3-time Super Bowl MVP and 2-time NFL MVP that had played one half of a football game in the previous two seasons versus the reigning MVP of the NFL. That is a pretty nice problem.
The Packers are having to decide whether to go with a quarterback that hasn’t missed a start in 16 seasons and was 2nd in the MVP race last year or a guy that has shown injury tendencies as a backup playing parts of seven games over the past three seasons. Brett Favre and Joe Montana couldn’t be more different. Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers couldn’t be more different.
The teams were also very different. The 49ers did a nice job retooling after 1984 and had a new cast of players in place by 1988 and 1989. By 1993 they had a lot of veteran skill position players. Jerry Rice is widely considered the best receiver in the history of the NFL. He was in his prime. John Taylor was a solid number 2 guy. Brent Jones was a solid tight end. Tom Rathman was a capable fullback. Ricky Waters was being worked into the lineup as the starting running back to replace Roger Craig. They knew those players could succeed with Young or Montana.
The Packers have a proven commodity in Donald Driver that has played with no one other that Brett Favre. Everyone else on the offense is young and unproven. It is possible that Brett Favre was made to look better than he was because of their development. It is more likely that Brett Favre made them look better than they actually were. We need to see more to make final determinations on Greg Jennings, James Jones, Donald Lee, and Ryan Grant. We need to see if the offensive line was really that good or Brett Favre’s quick release masked some of the deficiencies in the offensive line. Brett Favre has a history of elevating average players in Green Bay. Research Bill Schroeder and Tyrone Davis if you need further convincing.
The fact is that I can’t convince anyone that Aaron Rodgers is good or bad. On the good side he has shown progress each pre seasons. Brett Favre has a good history of grooming backup quarterbacks that have gone on to be good NFL starters. Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, and Kurt Warner all spent time behind Favre. Rodgers looked especially good in the Dallas game where he threw for 201 yards and posted a rating of 104.8 rating.
On the bad side he played at California for Jeff Tedford. Tedford has groomed the following NFL quarterbacks in college: Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Billy Volek, and A.J. Feeley. That isn’t exactly an all-star cast of NFL quarterbacks. Also, the Pac 10 hasn’t exactly been great for NFL quarterbacks in recent years. Carson Palmer is about the only first round pick out of the Pac 10 in recent seasons that has panned out.
Another concern is Rodgers injury problems. He filled in for Brett Favre in a blowout loss to the Patriots in 2006. He broke his ankle and was out for the remainder of the season. In 2007 he filled in for Favre in the Dallas loss. He proceeded to pull a hamstring in practice with Favre questionable that week. The Packers had to sign Craig Null to backup Favre for the remaining games in the 2007 season as Rodgers was unable to practice or play. The fear is that you could release or trade Favre and three games later need him back because Rodgers has gotten injured in the meantime. It is never good to have injury concerns as a backup. To have them as Favre’s backup is especially concerning.
If the Packers were that sold on Rodgers they wouldn’t have drafted two quarterbacks in the 2008 NFL draft, including the use of their second pick on Brian Brohm from Louisville. While there is a lot to be hopeful for there is also a lot to be weary of. That is a big gamble when you have #4 ready to comeback to the team, which is one of the most proven commodities in the history of professional sports.
Suggesting that Favre’s only option at this point is to backup Rodgers is beyond comprehension. Then to deny it and say that you are trying to find a role for him with the team is equally insulting. I don’t believe Packer management did everything in their power to encourage Brett Favre to comeback. I think they alienated the Favre camp to the point where he didn’t want to continue his career there. In February that meant retiring. Now it means possibly playing for another team if they don‘t make amends.
Ted Thompson is the GM of the Packers. His job is to bring in good players and keep the ones that he has happy. While you can’t please everyone, Brett Favre does not have a history of being a difficult player. He is not a TO type personality. He is a popular with his teammates and plays hard no matter the team’s record or situation.
Thompson may not be warm to the idea, but he has the burden of trying to make this work. While he can’t keep everyone happy his job is not to drive away the best player in the history of this historic franchise. I understand that he went to Mississippi in both 2005 and 2008 to talk Favre out of retiring. I’m not accusing Thompson of deliberately trying to run Favre out of town. While it is debatable how much he did to drive away Favre I also think it is clear he did the bare minimum to encourage him to stay.
The Packers have only two courses of action. Their best course of action is to try to repair the wounds and bring Brett Favre back in 2008. While that does create complications particularly with regards to Aaron Rodgers it is the best answer to a no win situation. The Packers best chance to win a Super Bowl is the chance in front of them.
Brett Favre gives the Packers a better chance than Aaron Rodgers to win a Super Bowl in 2008. If there is a way to bring Favre back and keep harmony between the key people in the organization they should do that. People are taught to put aside their egos and do what is best for the organization. Brett Favre’s best chance to win in 2008 is in Green Bay and Green Bay’s best chance to win is with Brett Favre. Neither party has been perfect and both have legitimate grievances with the other. Neither should let pride get in the way of winning. They should both do what is best for the football team.
Not every player will agree with all the decisions the Packers make. However the players will respect an organization that puts them in the best possible position to win. Al Harris already went on NFL Network and said he would like to play with Favre in 2008. That is a leader of the football team and his opinion is probably shared by many of the other veteran players. If the players feel their leader was driven out of town for someone that was not as good they will resent that far more than if Aaron Rodgers wasn’t treated perfectly. Aaron Rodgers hasn’t earned enough credibility in the NFL to warrant anything other than his paycheck. While he has been put in a tough situation that is everyday life for an unproven player in the NFL.
If there is no way the Packers can bring Favre back or if Favre has no desire to comeback than they need to trade him before the start of training camp. If they don’t, Green Bay’s training camp will have media attention ten times that of the Eagle’s training camp in 2005 with TO vs. McNabb. You can’t have that circus with a starting quarterback that has thrown 59 career passes. However, they can’t just release Favre because the Bears are a quarterback away from contending for the playoffs and the Vikings are a quarterback away from contending for the Super Bowl. It would be football suicide to allow him to go to one of your biggest rivals and have that rival win a Super Bowl.
Furthermore, you can’t just keep his rights and hope for the right offer to come around or for Favre to just go away. Even if he isn’t on the opening day roster the speculation will roar the first time Rodgers has a bad series that the Packers should activate Brett Favre. Rodgers can’t succeed if Favre is his backup nor can he succeed if he is lurking in the shadows waiting for him to fail.
If the Packers give Rodgers the job Rodgers needs to be confident that the job is his. It took Favre over two seasons to begin playing consistent MVP football. Rodgers needs to be afforded the time to grow in a positive enviroment. Brett Favre has given years of outstanding service. He should be afforded the opportunity to continue his career elsewhere and not be a hostage in a bad situation, especially if the team no longer wants to start him.
Ted Thompson may not want to go down as the guy that drove Brett Favre out of Green Bay. However, it would be far worse to be the guy that drove him out of the game. If it is not possible to bring Favre back deal him somewhere else quickly and let him become someone else’s dilemma. Deal him before the situation alienates Packers fans to the point where they are mad at the organization or to the point where Favre is not welcome in Lambeau Field. It is important that after Favre really does retire that he can resume being an ambassador for the Packers. You want his Hall of Fame ceremony to be a Packer celebration, not a bittersweet symphony.
Similar to what the 49ers did with Montana the Packers have to trade him somewhere that he isn’t going to be threatening. The Chiefs, Jets, and Ravens would seem to make the most sense in the AFC. The Bucs, Panthers, and Redskins could make sense in the NFC. All have been in the playoffs within the last two seasons with the exception of the Panthers. All have veteran teams whose window seems to be closing. All lack a dominant signal caller that can take them into contention. Favre could be the piece that puts them in contention. I find it impossible to believe that with so many teams needing good quarterbacks that the Packers could not quickly make that deal.
It would be a shame, because an athlete like Brett Favre comes around once in a lifetime. He became a household name as a Packer and he should have retire a Packer. However what should happen and does happen are often two different things. Jerry Rice played his last game in a Seahawk uniform. Unitas gave it a try as a Charger. Montana retired a Chief. All are remembered fondly for the teams they made their names with. Even if Favre ends his career with another team he will always be remembered as the greatest and most popular player in the history of the Packer franchise. Playing somewhere else for a year or two will not change that.
My hope is that they can work this out so that my favorite player can continue to play for my favorite franchise. If not, I will have two favorite teams in 2008. It won’t be as much fun for me to root for the Packers without Favre, but I am not going to disown my favorite team. I want to remember Favre for his great years in Green Bay and hating the franchise will not help me do that. If Favre is traded his new team will also become my favorite team. I will root for that team to succeed as well.
The Packers and Favre are very special. They are institutions in NFL history. There is no reason that either should be disliked because they combined to make a difficult situation impossible. While making amends would be the most desirable sometimes moving on is the only solution. Whatever they decide they need to do it quickly. It is already a gigantic mess. The longer this goes on the messier it is going to become. That is not good for anyone. There will be no winners and only a lot of losers if that happens.
Street Cred
Whilst I don't want to rain on anyone's parade in this instance. This has become more abotu he said .....and he said.
Favre has held this team to ransom over the last few seasons and has expected to be treated with kid gloves. That to my mind isn't what's needed here.
After Favre stated categorically that it was his intention to retire the team chose to move forward without him. Did he really expect them not to do otherwise ? As to the Pakcer fans beying for Brett's return . At some time in the future they're going to have to accept that his time'll come and he'll hang up his cleats.
As to the present situation it's become something akin to a pi##in' contest as to the veracity of each parties' allegations/stories.
That being said Brett's playing on the sympathies of the fans and Thompson is being made to look the villain of the piece.
As you've said so adroitly both sides are to blame. But it oughtn't to have come to this in the first place. Favre is acting like kid who's had his lunch bucket taken from him. When in reality he gave it up willingly in the first place without any undue pressure.
Street Cred
See my most recent post within this forum and let me know what you think as to its merits ? I'll provide with a link directly to the piece. Just click on the link (site) to view.
This is a tough situation to gauge. If it is true that he was going to reverse his retirement in March and then backed off, it really makes him look bad. Because the Packers were in NFL Draft evaluation at that time and eventually took Brohm. Do they make that pick if Favre comes back? Don't think so.
Cred, I know what he has meant to Packer fan's and the NFL in total. But I'm having a hard time in showing sympathy. He really has no bargaining power at this point. If he had made these claims earlier it might not have come off as a bit bitter. If he wants to play, he should petition for reinstatement and show up for training camp. If he is obviously the best QB there and McCarthy goes with Rodgers, he would create more for his case in the public eye. The Packers would also have to adjust their salary cap to accomodate him.
Another thing, why did he go on with Greta Van Susteran? Don't care that she is a Packer shareholder and a friend of Deanna. It is a totally inept choice. He should have chosen a Bob Costas, Peter King, Chris Mortenson, anyone whose expertise and knowledge is respected within the football community and can get inside information from the opposing view.
Well, I'm sorry this happened and hope it is peacefully resolved soon.
Tophatal - Thanks for the post and I will try to read that article when I get a chance. I don't agree with your assessment that favre is acting like a little kid. He said that he understands why the Packers have decided to move on. If they don't want him he wants his freedom to pursue his career elsewhere. What is wrong with that?
TundraTrudger - Thanks for the post. Glad you enjoyed the read.
Moseby - I totally agree that Favre has not handled this situation perfectly. However, he gives the Pack the best chance to win in 2008. Ted Thompson's goal should be to put the best team on the field not have a stand off with his star QB.
I think he went on Greta because she is from Wisconsin and is a respected interviewer. While she may not have the sports background that Costas or King has she has interviewed heads of state and national leaders.
I don't think he was interested in getting grilled about the Packer perspective. He wanted to get his side of the story out and thought that would be a good venue.
I agree. I hope it is resolved peacefully and soon. Thanks for the post.
Lifelong Packer fan and Favre fan. I am starting to lose a lot of respect for Favre. Favre is not the GM. He can speak his mind about the players he wants, however, Ted gets paid to make these decisions not anyone else. Frankly, I don't know how anyone can take away from what Thompson has done in his short tenure. The end of the Sherman era was a complete debacle. His drafts were terrible and he overpaid far to many players. Keep in mind that when you say they got rid of Javon Walker, that turned into Greg Jennings. Anybody seen or heard of Walker since other than the trouble he continues to get in? Thompson in turn built the youngest team in the NFL and they hosted the NFC Championship game. As far as Favre and his soap opera go, since when is sending a text message and airing dirty laundry on Gretta the way to handle wanting to play again? Man up, fly to Green Bay and have a face to face conversation. He has already retired, almost unretired, but decided he wanted to stay retired after Mike and Ted welcomed him back. All this and I'm still not even sure the man wants to play 100%. If he did don't you think he would at least apply for re-instatement? Until he does so, Ted's hands are tied. Is he seriously supposed to say, "Brett, you are our starter" while he is on the retired list? What if he does that and Favre changes his mind again? What message have you just sent the rest of your team? I will never say that Rodgers is better suited to run the 2008 Packers than Favre is. My take is simply this. If Favre does the necessary paperwork to get re-instated and shows up for c
Meader99 - Thanks for the post. That is a good take. I gave Thompson all the credit in the world for what he has done in the draft. It is similar thought to Krause in Chicago. He looked like a pretty brilliant GM until Jordan retired. The toughest thing in the NFL is to find the star QB, something Thompson has not had to do yet in GB.
My point isn't that Favre is right and Thompson is wrong. It isn't the other way around. My point is forget who is to blame, Favre gives the Pack the best chance to win in 08. Put the egos aside and do what is best for the football team. What good does it do if Thompson can claim he was in the right and the Packers have a terrible season.
Starting a guy that has thrown 59 career passes with a Super Bowl caliber roster is not in the best interest of the Pack, not matter how much Favre has flip flopped.
The Cowboys put up with TO's circus. New England brought Randy on board. The Giants took Strahan back at the end of camp in 07. The reason is that they are great players and help people win. I'll put up with this retirement circus every year if Favre delivers 4,000 yards, 28 Tds, and 13 wins. When he stops doing that and is not a viable player is when Thompson should cut the cord. Not when he is the 2nd most valuable player in the league.
Last edited by StreetCred on July 16th at 3:37 PM.
Street..... Bottom line is simply that Favre has to apply for re-instatement. If he doesn't there isn't one thing Thompson can do about it. I agree that Favre gives the Packers the best chance of winning the Super Bowl in 2008-2009, but only if he is 100% committed. I haven't seen anything as of yet that would solidify that he is indeed 100% committed.
My take that was cut off was simply if he applies for re-instatement and shows up to camp, then he will be the starting QB for the Packers in week 1. If he continues to wage dirty laundry war in the press, then he can simply go away.
I agree that Favre made his decision to soon. I am just so tired of hearing about him being forced into retirement. He's a grown man and nobody can force him to do anything. I'm quite sure if he said I will give you my final decision 2 weeks before the draft, everything would be great. No one should have to beg someone to come back and play another year. If Favre is mad because they didn't cater to his every need, then he needs to get off his soap box. If Thompson has to plead with Favre to come back, then it's quite obvious to me that Favre is already gone. Personally, I think Thompson has done an excellent job as GM of the Packers as evidenced by his 2007 Executive of the Year award. Here is hoping Ted, Mike and Brett sit down in the same room and have a conversation about Favre's committment. I still say until he signs the papers, there is no committment.
Meader99 - Again, good takes. My only counter point would be why would Favre apply for reinstatement at this time with no assurances that he would be traded, released, or allowed to be the starting quarterback?
If he applies for reinstatement he gets fined $15,000 / day for each day he misses camp. The Pack can't do that now because he is on the retired list. To me it makes perfect sense not to apply for reinstatement until the Packers tell him something other than that he is the backup QB. He loses a lot of leverage if he applies for reinstatement. As long as he is saying he wants to play it is a distraction the Packers front office cannot afford.
very true, this whole thing has become ridiculous,
besides why is everyone so worried about his 'legacy'. when you think of Joe Montana, do you think of the Chiefs? i dont think so
Street Cred
Less we've all forgotten what has Favre been doing with the franchise over the last two or three years ? Toying with a cat by luring him with a piece of string. He's back and forth as to impending retirement became tedious and monotonous. And if you were an employer would you tolerate that from your employee ? Afterall that is indeed what Favre had been doing on and off with the franchise. Nothing more nothing less !
My only issue primarily here is the infantile way that both parties have gone about this. I do believe that the Packers now should either trade him or just release him once and for all. Set this unsavory episode behind them. It's all now become a matter of who said what and when. And even you've got to admit that ?
If you don't feel that Favre has indeed been childish then I believe that we've both got differning definitions as to what we'd deem to be a sign of immaturity.
It's such a stick and ugly situation for everyone involved. I know the Packers didn't want Favre to hold the team hostage, in a sense, as he did last year by not making up his mind in a reasonable length of time. There are salary cap dollars, free-agency and draft picks that hinge on his decision.
I think when Brett made up his mind(actually too early this time) he was totally spent and drained from giving his all last season. As the saying goes, time heals all wounds. He's revamped, recharged and eager, once again.
It's perhaps a bit selfish on his part, but knowing he was only an overtime loss away from the Super Bowl weighs heavy on his mind. As I said, it's an ugly situation and a P.R. nightmare.
ToPhatal - Thanks for the post and its a good take. I don't agree with much of it though. First, the Cowboys put up with this from TO and nobody blinks that they keep him. Strahan held out of all of camp and it worked out fine. The Lakers did just fine with Kobe this year.
I'm not saying Favre is perfect. He isn't and he deserves some of the blame. People that are good at what they do get away with more. You ask if I would tolerate that from an employee. Depends. I wouldn't from someone that makes a minimal profit. I would from someone that is number one in my sales department.
The players win the games and Favre is as good as anyone in the league. It doesn't matter whether he is right. It matters how good he is. The Pack should take him back, not because they were right or wrong. They should take him back because he gives them the best chance to win in 08.
HomerTM7 - Who threw the 54 and 81 yard touchdown passes. Who rushed for another touchdown pass. Desmond had a big play in that game, but the Pack don't win that game with Favre's brilliance on offense and White's clutch sacks in the 4th quarter.
Midnite - Thanks for the comments. If this doesn't get handled soon it will just get uglier. The tampering charges don't look good for either side. Yeah Favre has put the Pack in a tough spot. But the Pack have done themselves very little favors the way they have handled it so far.
Great blog post! What happens to Thompson though if the PAckers bring back Favre and he is not the 2007 edition statistically, but the 2006 or 2005 edition? For Ted, that could mean his job is on the line as well for not telling a legend it is time for him to find a new color jersey. I can understand your argument if Favre has been consistent the last three seasons, but he has been at times, especially in high pressure situations, an interception machine. Nobody really addresses that part of the choice. Of course if he is dealt to the Jets, I will jump for joy, but I can understnad GB's tough situation.
JetsinFlames - Thanks for the comments and that is a good point. Here is my counter arguement.
Let's look at what Favre has done in Green Bay this decade. The Packers are 78-50 since 2000. The only teams that have won as many regular season games in that span are NE (91), Indy (89), Philly (83), Pittsburgh (82.5). Those teams account 7 SB appearances and 5 SB rings.
Those teams had much better scoring defenses and yadage defenses. Since 2000 the Eagles have finished in the top 10 in scoring and yardage defense 6 times. The Steelers have done that 5 & 8. The Patriots 5 & 4. The Colts 3 & 2.
Brett Favre has played with 2 top 10 scoring defenses and one top 10 yardage defense since 2000. Manning has had Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark, and Addai. Favre had Green and Driver, who are good but not the same as the Colts. You could argue that no one player was as responsible for his teams success since 2000 than Brett Favre. He won despite average to below average defenses and made players on his offense better than they actually were (Franks, Davis, Schroeder, Ferguson, etc).
When you consider that Favre was 31 years old in 2000 while Brady, Manning, McNabb, and Big Ben were all in their 20s it is a major accomplishment. That is why so many fans are interested in him coming to their team despite the high interception totals. That is why the Packers should still want him. Even at 39 he makes a team a contender.
Last edited by StreetCred on July 18th at 10:53 AM.
I don't know what to think of this situation man. I think it is better for me to stay out of it. You know CHFF has got the front office's back on this.
Anyway welcome back, sorry I was out this week not in town. Let me send you a link of my side of our deal to let you think if is ok.
Street Cred
That last statement from you makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Where has TO dictated to the Cowboys how they ought to play and wherein has he even had the temeerity to dictate how the team ought to be treating him ? Favre feels that he's above the team and everything they stand for. He's not about the team or his teammates. It's all about him.
He infers one thing to a teammate as to how he ought to stand pat and negotiate his contract. States that he doesn't have teach Rodgers anything and then expects all to buy into his bs that he's the one scorned. He at this present moment in time is showing himself to be an ingrate. Though he's not the only one at fault he's by the far the biggest antagonist in all of this. People are far too blinded as to their loyalty in all of this to Favre rather than seeing all of the realities in this. Paying him $12m per season when they the Packers have seen fit to move forward is absolute nonesense.
If they don't need him they ought to cut his a## and move on !
Afterall this also a business as well as sports.
If there's anyone being wronged here it's the Packers' fans as a whole. They're not deseriving of this at all !
justan' aka tophatal ..........
Last edited by justanotherfan on July 18th at 6:07 PM.
tophatal, are you serious? TO does think he is above the team. Dude heck a year later he was slamming Parcells saying how Phillips treats him differently. That's one point I had to get out to make you understand.
Nice blog, just wanted to mention..Steve Young was a first round pick for the TB Bucaneers, his two seasons with them turned out to be a disaster and he was considered a bust. After being traded to the 49's he sat behind Montana and ended up getting the starting job in 93 at the age of 31...so you have time Aaron;
debashi - Parcells refused to even address Owens by his name. That is pure disrespect from day one. Owens kept quiet about it until Parcells left, and when asked, gave an honest answer. That's not being bigger than the team. Phillips actually respects all of his players. Parcells made the same bone-head rude comments about Jason Taylor, a future HOF'er behind his back. The coaches have been doing damage control on that Parcells #### for months.
When Owens' contract was up and the end of this last season, the media hounded him about a new contract. He replied that he wanted to be a Cowboy for the remainder of his playing days, and that Jerry Jones would do what was best. He repeated it 1,000 times, at least. Media begged him to pop off. Difference is, Jones paid him top-10 money, something Lurie was too cheap to do in Philly.
As for Parcells, that's why he's not coaching anymore. He'll be great in a front office. He's too old, rude and out of touch with today's players to be coaching.
Last edited by MidniteCowboy on July 18th at 7:42 PM.
Good read, you left on vacation right b4 all this exploded, so I kept an eye out for your blog!
Whiel I agree Favre has made this a big mess, its not surprising at all he wants to return...I mean, in his retirement speech, he basically stated he still loved to play and still wanted too, but his body couldnt handle the work load...Anyone remember last year when he wanted to skip minis and the OTA's? Well he missed them this year and that itch has probably been aided by some extra rest.
The reason I have been more understanding to them taking Brett back is because like you said, he gives them the best chance to win a Super Bowl! If people and fans think Rodgers can do that they are living in la-la land.
The reason I lost tons more respect for Ted than Brett is because Ted has been saying since this "un-retirement" saga started that Aaron Rodgers is their guy. Really, after OTA's and b4 pre-season you are so sure about that, huh?
Well then why the hell did you draft 2 Qb's then Ted? I could understand one to fill in as a back-up, maybe starter, but 2 Qb's?
That right there shows Ted's lack of trust in Rodgers...With that being said, I think the front office in this team, including McCarthy, need to check their egos at the door.
What happens if they show Brett the door and this team goes into a tailspin or cant even make the play-offs? Will Packer fans demand that heads roll?
Midnite Cowboy: TO got what he deserved in Philly. His crybaby #### knew that he was going elsewhere remember? The 49ers traded him to Baltimore, thats how the whole TO legend thing started, remember? He wanted so bad out of San Fran, but whined like a #### when he actually got traded...so after that debacle which I wont go into, he goes to Philly signs a contract that the Players Union told him NOT to sign, but because of his mouth and selfishness he had gotten himslef into that situation...
...Then the very next year he forgets that it was his fault he was in that situation and demands a new contract! Less then one year after signing it!
Nothing in Brett Favre's history can even compare to the headcase that is TO...even Bretts "party" days (bout one year) when in Atlanta.
No one here made a comparison of T.O. in Philly to Brett in Green Bay. Read Al's post again. He did liken T.o. in Dallas to Brett in Green Bay. Big difference. Following that, I responded to dehbashi's remark concerning Parcells.
And for the record, San Francisco, believing it still held Owens' rights, attempted to trade Owens to the Baltimore Ravens for a second round pick in the 2004 draft.
I don't see why the comments should go so far off topic anyway. T.o.'s saga in Philly or with the 49ers has nothing to do with the P.R. nightmare playing out at Packers Inc.
The bigger issue, Brett's retiring months ago, now wanting to play as training camp nears, is an ugly situation quite uncommon to any player with such a legendary status.
Every morning we wake to new headlines that divide the team, fans and front office. Today we see that proverbial line in the sand, which separates the two sides, is widening.
MidniteCowboy. Parcells has always been like that. This is the same guy who referred to Terry Glenn during his rookie year as a Patriot as She.
Also, BS over TO being quiet. He was talking #### about Parcells when he was the coach especially during his last year of coaching. Ask Doug Flutie if Phillips respects all players(LOL sorry for the low blow). Okay seriously, I don't remember Parcells saying anything about Taylor. Wasn't the big uproar that he didn't say anything to Taylor at all?
Lurie wasn't cheap at all. First, TO was just did one year of his first contract before ####ing and second it didn't even sense to give a new one. They got TO to get Philly to the SB but he missed the whole playoffs so they got there without him. It didn't make sense to pay him top-10 money at the time.
Very good read. I'm hoping they work things out and Favre comes back as the starter for the Packers. He gives them the best chance to win in my opinion.
On a side note- you said Mark Brunell backed up Favre. Wasn't he a draft choice of the expansion Jacksonville Jaguars from Washington or Washing State? I know he went pro the same year Bledsoe went to NE and they were both from the Wash/Wash St schools not sure which one where though.
2nd in MVP voting, 253 consecutive starts, all the records (yes INT record too), winningest qb in history, not to mention an unproven back up qb.
Plus you can argue that he saved the franchise, no favre- no reggie, no reggie- no superbowl. no superbowl no new stadium and the income from it. how much money would the packers have in the bank if Favre never came along? not $125 million as they do now.
If he was washed up, say good bye. He kept the team afloat, actaully 7-1, while the running game and offensive line came around. he then led us to the NFC championship game. And to all that say he blew the game, don't forget that the giants beat brady who is suppose to be the greatest post season qb ever in the superbowl.
And as far as the cold, what are the chances that the packers ever play a game as cold as the championship game. (and yes i do believe the cold affected favre, and the rest of the team too) I been to alot of games at lambeau, including all of the playoff games (since I have been alive) and that was the coldest game I have ever been too.
TT needs to suck it up and take one for the organization and patch this up. Favre has acted foolishly but he deserves more respect than TT has given him.
I live in Chicago, but am originally from Wisconsin. I am a disgruntled Green Bay Packer fan that now loves the Jets. My favorite sports are Football, Basketball, and Baseball. Hockey and soccer are at the bottom of my list. I would rather watch the Spelling Bee than either of those sports. My favorite athletes of all time are Brett Favre and Michael Jordan. While I like debating many sports, NFL Football is by far my favorite topic to discuss.
In addition to this blog I am also a writer for the Fantasy Football Maniaxs. It is quite an honor to be writing with a group of knowledgeable football fanatics. The address is http://www.fa ntasyfootball maniaxs.com. I hope you enjoy the blog.