That’s the suggestion of some Flyers fans in chat
rooms, message boards and blogs, as well as in comments on some of my
Foxsports.com articles.
NHL officiating always gets knocked more in the post-season
than it does in the regular season (when there’s always a steady drumbeat of
discontent over it).
I haven’t found the officiating to be any better or worse in
this year’s playoffs. It seems about the same, some games it’s good, some games
it’s questionable.
As for the Flyers, it seems to be part of their cultivation
of their underdog status, their “us against the world” mentality in this year’s
post-season to suggest they’re not getting the benefit of the calls or for some
of their fans to outright make that claim.
So, is there any truth to it?
Granted, the Flyers are bound to be watched more closely
than other teams given the notable suspensions handed down to a couple of their
players during the season, which at one point earned them a stiff public rebuke
by the NHL ‘s disciplinary arm.
In the Flyers-Washington Capitals series, both teams drew 35
penalties, the most notable being Washington’s Tom Poti’s
tripping call that led to Joffrey Lupul’s overtime series-winning goal in Game
Seven.
In the Flyers-Montreal Canadiens series, the Flyers had 22
penalties to the Canadiens 14, 8 of those coming in the very rough third game
when Derian Hatcher took a stupid boarding call that saw him tossed from the
game and put his team shorthanded for half of the third period. In the other
four games, two saw the teams draw equal number of penalties , one saw
the Flyers draw one more and the other two more than the Habs.
A questionable call on Mike Richards for tripping Alex
Kovalev late in Game One resulted in Kovalev’s game-tying goal, but the
Canadiens Steve Begin took a silly interference late in the third of Game Four that snuffed
out his club’s rally and resulted in the game winning PP goal by Daniel Briere.
After three games against the Penguins in the Conference Finals, the Flyers were assessed 11 penalties, the Penguins 10, with six of those 11
penalties coming in Game Two.
Flyers fans were justifiably upset over Scottie Upshall’s
tripping call when a similar one later in the game by a Penguin was not called,
and Evgeni Malkin’s blatant elbow to the head of Daniel Briere in Game Two
going uncalled.
Overlooked however was Jason Smith’s punch to the face of
Sidney Crosby in Game Two that went uncalled, as did a couple of other
questionable tactics on Crosby and Malkin that the officials missed.
In the final assessment thus far, except for three games
(one in each series) where undisciplined play got the better of them, the
Flyers haven’t been getting the worst of the calls. It's was dead even against the Capitals, only one game skewed their numbers against the Habs (a game the Flyers won anyway), and it's been almost even against the Penguins in the first three games.
As far as calls go, some have certainly been missed for the
Flyers, but so too have they gotten their share of breaks against their opponents.
The only thing beating the Flyers in their series against
the Penguins is the talent depth of the Penguins, the absence of Kimmo Timonen
and Braydon Coburn from the Flyers blueline and the inability of the rest of
the Flyers defense to contain the Penguins speed. Penalties have nothing to do with it.
**Update** In Game Four, the Flyers were only called for two penalties, the Penguins called for four, leading a clearly upset Penguins coach Michel Therrien to sarcastically compliment the Flyers on their "disciplined play". The Flyers tally of penalties now stands at 13, the Penguins at 14.
How are the PENS doing tonight??? What's their explanation as well as yours. You're from Canada, and yes you're pissed at the FLYERS for beating out your HABS!!!
I'll trust John Stevens comments over yours anyday.
I think the officiating has been awful in the playoffs, not just for my Flyers. That no goal last night in Detroit had to be the worst call I have seen in the playoffs this year.
That being said we are just past the 20 year anniversary of the Have Another Doughnut incident. So nothing has changed since then.
Last edited by WilliamPennshat on May 15th at 6:41 PM.
Although I do not believe that the Flyers have had the referees working against them and that your statistics are correct, I believe that in order to prove your point you need more than just those statistics. I agree that you need to look at each penalty that the Flyers received and each one that their opponents received, but I would also look at the number of blown calls both ways. You would also need to assess the number of times that the refs erred in favor of the Flyers opponents in comparison to how many times they erred in favor of the Flyers, at how crucial a time, and if these bad calls could have potentially altered the outcome of the game.
Even so, this would only lead to the speculation that the refs are against the Flyers, but would not constitute proof.
baileyboy: I'm not troubled at all by the Flyers beating the Habs. I'm merely pointing out that the statistics don't lie, nor does the fact that the Flyers have had pretty much the same breaks as their opponents. Some Flyers fans were complaining about biased officiating, I investigated, and found that those claims are erroneous.
The Flyers earned every one of their victories in this year's playoffs, and they had no help from the officiating any more than their opponents.
hattricky: As I've pointed out, the Flyers haven't had any more breaks or blown calls than anyone else in this year's playoffs. Look at the Habs series, Flyers fans were complaining about the Canadiens diving to draw penalties, but in most cases the Habs were either called on their dives or the officials ignored them.
Are there any fans anywhere who don't blame the refs when their team loses??? Shut up Flyer fans and take your beating and wait for July 1st so you can spend some more money on bums like Briere who hasn't shown up in the conference finals like he did in Buffalo the last few years.
Spector: I never meant that your formula was incorrect, you backed it up with good statistics and facts. I merely meant that I would have focused on the bad calls more than the overall number of calls (I didn't go through any figures so I do not know how often either occurred).
I personally believe that there is no formula that would prove that the refs were trying to work against the Flyers, they (these statistics and formulas) would merely provide statistics for penalties and grounds for theories, but no real hard evidence. Fans are going to speculate, but usually emotions cloud judgment.
Indeed, hattricky, as "baileyboy" clearly demonstrated in his comments to this post. It's only natural to assume that one's favorite team is getting hosed by the officials come playoff time.
lol the flyers fan are crying over the officiating? if you wanted to look at bad officiating, you should've watched the boston-montreal series. boston got victimized all over the place (dives, cheap shots etc.) while montreal was handed power plays. i mean, yea you can gripe about certain calls, but when it's down right unfair( like what was listed in the blog, the numbers aren't to large with the exception of the 2nd round for the flyers)that's when it needs to be addressed by the league.
The refs are always crooked against MY team. Always have been and will be. Chat rooms are loaded with dudes claiming the "frame OJ cops" are now refs in the NHL. The same refs are moonlighting to put the Lakers in the Finals.
Now, let's talk about a derriere being in the crease last night. That's a great discussion.
An NHL referee sees the play once, at game speed, at ice level with a half dozen bodies in the way. Those of us sitting at home see the play a dozen times in slow-motion replay from an array of angles (sometimes even with enhanced zoom close-up) immediately after the call. And even THEN it's not always absolutely clear what the right call should be.
Yes, penalties are going to be missed, offsides are not going to be whistled down, incorrect calls will be made and quick whistles will wave off goal-mouth scramble goals. It's happened to everybody's team over the years. Sometimes it goes in your favour, sometimes it doesn't. Those, as they say, are the breaks.
We need to recognize the officials have a thankless job, and that every call they make or do not made is viewed through the prism of fan passion. Under the circumstances, I think they do a pretty darned good job. I doubt I could do better; if fact, I'm certain I'd do far worse.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on May 15th at 10:08 PM.
Honestly, I have had it up to here (I'm 6'2" but my hand is at about my eyes) with all this Habs get favored ####! Back in '87, the famous Alain Cote disallowed goal and Michel Bergeron's "Big Red Machine" lament, kvetch kvetch kvetch! You'd be led to believe all NHL referees were brainwashed into being Hab-fans.
Some people are raised to believe that "my team can do no wrong", and as a hockey fan I can admit my views are frequently biased towards my team. But the video does not lie people! Replay judges aren't on some sort of secret agenda!!
Watch the tapes, replay the games.....observe!
Last edited by Cup_Junkie on May 15th at 10:17 PM.
There's questionable calls going to alot of teams this year.I to, think for the flyers it just looks worse because of the suspensions and the underdog tag
Regardless of the breaks or blown calls, it is the consistantcy of the calls that troubles me. The tempo of game as well as the outcome in some cases should not be determined by what the refs decide to call one night to the next or even one side of the ice to the other in the same game for that matter.
Calling a player for a dive as well as the opposing player for a trip is ridiculous. Diving and embellishing is part of the game and in my mind ruins the integrity of the game. The Habs made it their game plan and it should have been delt with harshly by the officials instead of ignored in most cases.
BRUINS1FAN: FYI, the Canadiens had 32 penalties called against them in that series, the Bruins 30. They were called three times for diving, the Bruins only once. I think the officials were on to those diving tactics but it wasn't "part of their game plan" as you suggest. If it was it didn't work out as planned, for as I noted earlier, the officials called them on it or ignored the dives and allowed play to continue. Given how poorly Montreal's PP performed in that series it wouldn't have worked out for them if it was "part of their game plan".
What killed the Bruins was lack of offensive depth, not questioanble tactics on the Canadiens part.
Wish you would have keyed in on both conference finals... some very tough calls in the Wings/Stars game Wednesday.
Having the lead first really does change the atmosphere and make up o####ame. If the Holstrom non call in Game 1 was a first goal, I could see the payback. But this was truely a goal that changed the whole outcome, not to mention the Dallas first goal where Ozzie was intefered with by a stick jab and the skate in the blue clearly before the puck...
Doesn't bode well for the game or reputation. I say get some sensor implants under the ice and use technology... who cares about tradition. Having coached for 12 years al beit H.S. and goal judge in juniors... too much asked of ref's to have the perfect position each time.
1) We agree that its ridiculous to believe that the league is favoring one particular team. However we disagree with Lyle's assertion that the officiating is no "better or worse in this year’s playoffs".
2) We believe its been the story so far. There have been few games these playoffs where a call/missed call, etc hasn't been the biggest story coming from the game. The officials are supposed to NOT be noticed, yet in each game they are the story.
3) No, its not intentional, or to favor one team, we say its institutional incompetence. We can see another 'Brett Hull goal' ala 1999 occurring to decide the Cup this year. We guess it could be worse. If anyone's watched the World championships. There they have awarded goals to teams when the puck has been shot wide of the net!
How about a column titled, "Sidney Crosby is an ########"? That little wanker starts yapping with Richards, gives him a slash, encourages them to dance and then fails to drop his gloves. What a loser. And his insisting on diving, it really is entirely unnecessary for someone of his skill level.
So, what do you say, Spec? I think it would make for great blogosphere chatter, no? You could chronicle all the times he's taken a dive, all the times he's talked smack to a respected veteran, all the times he's failed to throw... Problem is, it would probably be the longest piece you've ever written. Wick Wick Wack.
And, fear not, I'll chime in about your current topic later on in the day. Cwgatti has it coming. He just doesn't know it yet...
Good times...
Last edited by HermanZeGerman on May 16th at 7:40 AM.
NO TEAM gets #### more by the refs than the New York Rangers. The Flyers are ####. Dirty top to bottom. Jaromir Jagr gets fouled ON EVERY SINGLE SHIFT!!!! The refs screw him like no other player or team in the league.
The Bruins/Habs series did have a TON of diving in it! (done by the Habs I might add) Just most of it went uncalled. It made me angry watching the Habs flop all over the ice everytime the got touched hoping they would draw a call. I'm glad the refs let it do most of the time however. I agree with BRUINSFAN1FAN that it ruins the integrity of the game. Man up and play like men, not like little wussies!
Spec: Love the blog and keep up the good work!
I dunno man, I've seen/heard/read a lot of people who whine a whole lot more than he seems to. Sure, I wish he would fight some more, 'speak with his fists' so to speak, but I read someone's comments somewhere online that I tend to aqree with. He's a captain, part of his job is to talk with the refs, to try to lobby and influence the refs. Maybe he talks more than others, but I don't really see anyone calling him a whiner unless his/her team is playing the Pens.
Now, it's quite possible that I'll have to eat my words if my Wings face the Pens in the playoffs, but I don't think he whines anywhere near as much as some people claim he does.
Crosby is by far one of the biggest whiners and divers in the league. Every time he ends up down on the ice you can see him looking to the refs with his arms out wondering why there was no call. There's no arguing that he's a talented player. But the whining and diving needs to stop.
As far as the topic of penalties in the playoffs. I think the refs have a tough job keeping tabs on everything and making split second calls during a game. That being said, I do feel the officiating has been terrible in the post-season. It feels as if the calls do seem to always go against the Flyers, and not just penalties but offsides and disallowed goals and everything else. But I know that part of that is because I'm a Flyers fan. If I was a fan of the Wings, Stars, Habs, or (god forbid) Pens, I'd probably feel that they were the ones getting the short end of things.
1st: i think the title of your blog is a little
irresponsible- philly fans don't need anybody even
alluding to the possibility of being discriminated against by the refs! every since the broad street
bullies of the 70's and the famous statement about
committing as many fouls as possible (they can't call them all) -Clark, or was it Barber??- anyway, my point is most people (at least outside of phily)
strongly believe that this is the true culture which exists among the flyers team (mgm't on down).
the well-earned suspensions this year certainly help to justify that assumption! after reading your
game-by-game analysis, i realize you sort of answer your blog's question in the negative, but fail to address the apparent truth that officials should
be more alert to the questionable (dirty?) play by
philly!
Why is looking for a call considered whining? I####uy gets tripped up or feels a stick hooking him of COURSE he's going to look for a call. And you can't deny that he gets hooked and held and obstructed as much as ANYONE. Stop whining yourselves and complain about people clutching and grabbing and hooking at him instead of whining that he thinks penalties should be called when he IS tripped and hooked and held.
Philly fans in particular and Crosby haters are the real whiners. Jesus, grow up!
William: For starters it's time to let go of the whole Broad St. Bullies thing. Other teams' fans say don't live in the past when talking about championships. Well the same goes for talking about the Broad St. Bullies teams. Yes that was a part of Philly's history. Notice the word, "history". The current team is completely different. The suspensions at the beginning of the season to Boulerice and Downie were justified. Those were bad plays by young guys trying to stand out and make the team. The league took action and the Flyers organization also took action. The other suspensions were borderline at best and in part a result of the opposing team's player putting himself in a bad position.
This Flyers team does play hard, physical hockey but physical does not equal dirty. Hockey, the last I checked, is a physical sport with a lot of contact. Finishing a check or skating hard to the net and continuing to play to the whistle are not dirty plays. And to suggest the officials need to focus on the Flyers more as a result of a handful of plays (many of which happen with other teams too) is ridiculous.
The Flyers play tough, but they also play with speed and skill. There are a lot of talented goal scorers on their roster who combine their physical play with speed and talent. And that's not just the Flyers, there are many top-level players around the league who have a nasty, physical edge to their game to go along with their scoring touch. Look at Malkin and Ovechkin just to name a couple.
Danig, looking for a call constantly on every play is definitely whining. If the refs are going to call it they're going to call it. If they're not they're not, plain and simple. So instead of looking around with his hands out and a shocked look on his face Crosby needs to shut up and play. He has a lot of talent. He's a great play-maker and a gifted goal-scorer. But he does embellish a lot of the supposed hooking and tripping. Malkin is a better player than Crosby at this point because he fights through the physical play and keeps going hard. And when he does get knocked down he gets back up, shakes it off, and starts going again. The stars in the league are always going to get held, hooked, tripped, etc, no matter what team they are on and no matter how hard the league tries to stop it. With as many teams as there are in the league there are always going to be lower level players who don't really belong and feel the need to grab onto a guy to keep from being beaten. But the best players continue to play and don't stop at every point to complain about it.
Keep looking for excuses philly. If you want to talk about bad reffing the game last night was horrible for reffing. Every scrum the penguins took the extra 2 for not doing anything different than what the flyers were doing but i wont make excuses. The penguins came out with fire but didnt substain it the later part of the period and it was our worst period we have played durring the playoffs. They deserved to not win that game and yet they almost did.
On every play? Ok, who's the one who is whining now? Give me a friggin break. If the guy didn't ever fight through the physical play he wouldn't have any points.
I've watched all the games, and I've been upset by some calls against the Flyers, but Spec is correct in that they have had a lot of breaks go their way too. Kind of silly to even be commenting on this... every team has their whining fans, perhaps Philly just has the more outspoken ones. The only thing I find questionable about last night's game is why the refs let Hatcher and Malone go at it but rushed in like a bunch of wolves when Richards and Crosby toed up.
"But the video does not lie people! Replay judges aren't on some sort of secret agenda!!
Watch the tapes, replay the games.....observe!"
I wish! Everytime there is a bad call lately they drop the puck and don't do a replay/review.
What is up with that?
I was watching the postgame after the Stars win. They kept showing the Holmstrom allowed goal from game 1 and the disallowed one from game 4 back to back sayingthat OBVIOUSLY the goal from game one should have been disallowed.
Holmstrom did not touch or impede Turco on either goal! They showed the goals OVER and OVER! It was right there in front of them, yet they couldn't see it!
To say that the replay judges have no agenda, with the REPLAYS showed OVER and OVER that they were COMPLETELY WRONG is crazy!
Let alone that they DO NOT REVIEW 90% of these type of errors... GET RID OF HALF OF THE OFFICIALS AND IMPLEMENT VIDEO REVIEW IN ALL POSSIBLE GAME AFFECTING SITUATIONS!
And, by the spector, good call on NOT talking about the WINGS/DALLAS officiating... That's a can of worms you do not want to open....
Specs article is so true, officials miss a ton of calls on both sides during every game and series. It's life, deal with it and stop your freakin' whining & moaning. Take a loss like a man and grow the hell up! (That goes for all you whiners & moaners out there, you know who you are!)
Herman...how about an article that's titled "Herman is a whiner and should find something else to complain about"?? The Sid bashing is really getting old.
The officiating has been bad for both sides. Both the Pens and the Flyers have gotten away with plenty. But that is a part of the game. You have to know where the line is. I thought the roughing call on Brooks Orpik that lead to the Flyers third goal was suspect, but before that players had been sent off for scrums, and he had to have been smarter then that. The Senators, Rangers, and Flyers complaining about not getting calls has just given them a convienent excuse for losing. The Pens have been a better team in all three series, and the results bare that out. I am so sick of hearing about this massive conspiracy that the NHL has for the Penguins, and people just look pass that the Pens are a great team, and are playing like it.
Well, apparently they didn't like what I typed, so let me try again... ("they" never like what I type, and "they are always out to get me!)
Good call on staying away from commenting on the officiating in the last Wings/Stars game Spector... Way to touch-and-go there...
Cup_Junkie;
"But the video does not lie people! Replay judges aren't on some sort of secret agenda!!
Watch the tapes, replay the games.....observe!"
My point exactly, except in reverse.
The NHL Network showed the Holmstrom goal from game one that "should have been disallowed" followed by the game 4 goal "that shouldn't have been diallowed" in the game 4 postgame several times.
Guess what? Both replays showed Holmstrom never touching or impeding Turco in any way!
Yet people continue to say these things, even though there is CLEAR REPLAY EVIDENCE THAT IT IS NOT TRUE!
OK, enough of that...
The main thing here is that plays are NOT reviewable! The main problem with the disallowed goal from the other night, and several other questionable goals this year, (and I don't know how many over the years since replay has been available...) are not reviewable because the rule book goes out of its way to say they are NOT REVIEWABLE!
The technology is there, why not use it? Why would some plays be reviewable and others not? Especially goals that have game-changing possibilities?
Spector: I was not trying to imply that the Habs beat the B's because of questionable play. Lack of offensive depth, inconsistant effort and standing around the defensive end, like deer looking into headlights, did them in. I will admit the better team won the series. BUT, the Habs were falling all over the ice every time they were touched. Regardless of how even the calls were (and you don't find that su####ious in itself? Each team has an almost equal amount of calls? Eye for an Eye?) I thought the Habs, especially being the better team, played dirty.
Last edited by BRUINS1FAN on May 16th at 12:10 PM.
Wow, it absolutely amazes me (and I'm a DIE HARD Wings fan) that ANYONE can be so blind as to watch the replays from the first game and somehow pretend that Holmstrom didn't impede Turco. That goal ABSOLUTELY should not have been allowed. It simply mystifies me. I guess it's the same blind whining as the anti-Crosby whining.
Mmm. I'd love to be able to claim the Rangers lost because of the refs. Sadly, it's not the case. The Rangers lost because the Penguins outplayed them. Jagr has definitely taken dives in the past, and though I don't remember every call made in the series I don't think he was called for a dive against the Pens. As to whether or not he -did- take dives, that's not for me to say.
General comment about officiating: This is the playoffs, where every fan comes together to hate on the Zebras, the only team that can never win.
Officiating may not be any better or worse than seasons past, but it's fresh in our minds today. Next year's officiating, by the time we get to it, will be the worst officiating we've ever seen. And the year after that, and the year after -that-, and so on. It's really time-perspective.
As for the Detroit goal they waived off, the rule says something about if the goalie doesn't have a fair chance at making the save because a player of the opposing team is impeding him, no goal. I haven't seen the tape yet, because I'm lazy and youtube is unavailable at the office. But I can say that the refs in that particular game saw Holmstrom's actions as impeding Turco from having a fair chance to make the save. Without actually seeing the replay, it's hard to argue for or against that, but if he was in the crease, it generally goes to the goalie. Personally I think the Brett Hull rule should be revoked and the foot-in-crease rule reinstitutionalized. At least that way, it's a clear-cut call. You're in the crease before the puck, no goal.
Video replay judges can't call downstairs on every play because that undermines the referees' job. They call upstairs if they're not 100% sure of their own judgement. While I'd like it if they utilized that option with greater frequency, it's not gonna happen. And they really can't change it, lest the ice-level referees be superceded regularly. We'd end up with baseball-length games and four linesmen just to break up fights.
"Wow, it absolutely amazes me (and I'm a DIE HARD Wings fan) that ANYONE can be so blind as to watch the replays from the first game and somehow pretend that Holmstrom didn't impede Turco."
I guess the definition of "impede" is what is throwing me off...
If "impede" means screen, then yes, Holmstrom did that.
If "impede" means TOUCHED Turco with any part of his body or equipment, then Holmstrom DID NOT DO IT!
Was Holmstrom's skates in the panted blue aera called the crease YES
Was his big butt in the panted blue area called the crease YES
And now how did he not break the rules????
Just Curious
HEre is the Rule directly out of the rulebook
Interference on the Goalkeeper - This rule is based on the premise
that an attacking player’s position, whether inside or outside the
crease, should not, by itself, determine whether a goal should be
allowed or disallowed. In other words, goals scored while attacking
players are standing in the crease may, in appropriate circumstances
be allowed. Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking
player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper’s
ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal; or (2) an
attacking player initiates intentional or deliberate contact with a
goalkeeper, inside or outside of his goal crease. Incidental contact
with a goalkeeper will be permitted, and resulting goals allowed, when
such contact is initiated outside of the goal crease, provided the
attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact.
The rule will be enforced exclusively in accordance with the on-ice
judgement of the Referee(s), and not by means of video replay or
review.
For purposes of this rule, “contact,” whether incidental or
otherwise, shall mean any contact that is made between or among a
goalkeeper and attacking player(s), whether by means of a stick or
any part of the body.
The overriding rationale of this rule is that a goalkeeper should
have the ability to move freely within his goal crease without being
hindered by the actions of an attacking player. If an attacking player
enters the goal crease and, by his actions, impairs the goalkeeper’s
ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be
disallowed.
If an attacking player has been pushed, shoved, or fouled by a
defending player so as to cause him to come into contact with the
goalkeeper, such contact will not be deemed contact initiated by the
attacking player for purposes of this rule, provided the attacking player
has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact
TURCO COULD NOT MOVE FREELY IN HIS CREASE BECAUSE OF WHERE HE WAS STANDING AND WHERE HIS BIG BUTT WAS
The key phrase is move freely within his crease
So take off your shaded redwing glasses and realize he broke the rule
Last edited by True_kings_fan on May 16th at 1:28 PM.
Funny how all the flyers fans call the caps fans crybabies when we complained about the noncall in game 7 when the flyers scored the go ahead 2nd goal. But the refs are wrong for not calling anything against the pens. There are always missed calls get over it. The Pens are just better.
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
