Following the NHL lockout the league’s newly formed competition committee introduced legislation designed to improve their product by speeding it up and increasing the potential for more offense.
Among the legislation were restrictions which shrunk the size of goaltending equipment. The theory was such reductions would increase goalscoring by prevent netminders from wearing oversized equipment, as there were numerous complaints that goalies wore such equipment more to block shots than for protection, the primary function of their equipment.
It appeared to be working in the first season following the lockout as goalscoring increased, but since then the increase has been so marginal as to appear stagnant, leading again to complaints that goaltenders were finding ways to work around the system to again wear out-sized equipment.
Several reasons why scoring hasn't significantly increased include the conditioning and skill of today's netminders compared to their predecessors and the adjustments in defensive systems by NHL coaches. Still, goaltending equipment remains a hot button issue.
As a result the NHL and NHLPA announced on April 29th the formation o####oalie Equipment Working Group, consisting of five players and four general managers, who’ll meeting in Toronto on June 11th to address again this niggling issue.
As per their press release:
“ The NHL representatives include Doug Risebrough of Minnesota, Garth Snow of the New York Islanders, Jim Rutherford of Carolina and Brett Hull of Dallas (co-GM). The NHLPA’s Executive Board voted to select three goalies and two skaters. Martin Brodeur of New Jersey, Rick DiPietro of the New York Islanders, Ryan Miller of Buffalo, Dany Heatley of Ottawa and Mike Cammalleri of Los Angeles will represent the NHLPA.
The Goalie Equipment Working Group will meet on June 11, 2008 in Toronto to examine the configuration and dimensions of goaltender equipment with respect to safety and performance. If the working group decides alterations to the rules governing goaltender equipment are warranted, and will not jeopardize the safety of the goalies, these recommendations will be forwarded to the Competition Committee for consideration. “
It remains to be seen what, if any, recommendations the group will make and if they’ll have any significant impact.
“We already know that goaltenders are a pretty tight group, and I have little doubt that Snow, a GM and former goalie who is extraordinarily close with DiPietro, will fight tooth and nail to protect his team's most valuable -- and some would say only -- asset. And thanks to a Sports Illustrated piece from a few months back, we already know that DiPietro and Brodeur form something of a mutual admiration society.
Combine them with Miller, and that's four solid votes against doing anything that's going to make a goalie's job harder than it already is. And while those four could very well be outvoted if the other five stick together, my guess is the group won't want to forward any recommendations to the Competition Committee if they aren't unanimous.”
He suggests that Brodeur could cast a significant vote against such changes, but with all due respect to Eric, that doesn’t jibe with comments the Devils netminder has made in the past. If anything, Brodeur could be among those voting for change:
From NHL.com, September 29, 2003: “Brodeur, who led the Devils over Giguere's Mighty Ducks for the Stanley Cup, told Le Journal de Montreal recently, said that complaints by his goaltending brethren that restrictions to the size of the equipment -- and more precisely many flaps used as add-ons by goalies -- leave them vulnerable to injuries is not true.
"The limit for the height of goaltender's pads is 38 inches, so?" said Brodeur, a three-time Cup winner. "Mine have always been 34 inches and that's enough. I've always preferred less bulky equipment so I could move around easier. Certain goaltenders have really gone too far in the last few years and I can understand why the League wants to stop it.
"I have to point out that I don't use the butterfly style, unlike most Quebec goaltenders. With plastic foils attached to their pads, butterfly goalies could completely close the space between their legs. I can understand why forwards complained they can't score when they shoot for the 5-hole. Jean-Sebastien Giguere was the target of such complaints last year."
From The Sporting News, October 6, 2003: “"It's got to be proportional to your body" says Brodeur, who wears 34-inch pads. "That's why the rule should be individual. The advantage of a little goalie wearing 38 is bigger than a bigger goalie wearing 38. Everybody should get measured and say, 'OK, you can have this.' And the guys who don't (follow that) should be penalized. You shouldn't be penalized for being 6-4 or 6-5."
Most recently, from the Toronto Star, February 20, 2008: “From my point of view, and I hope they think about this, they need to make the effort to size everyone individually," said Brodeur in an interview from New Jersey. "If they do that, they'll see a big difference. They have to reduce the little guys to being little guys and the skinny guys to being skinny guys. Those guys are taking advantage of the system."
Brodeur, who is 6-foot-2, wears pads that are 34-35 inches in length and can't understand why most goalies in the league are wearing the maximum 38-inch pads.
"There's no reason why anyone under six-feet should be wearing 38-inch pads, but everybody is wearing them," he said. "It's like if you have a 33-inch waist, you shouldn't be allowed to wear XXL pants."
Garth Snow might be keen to protect DiPietro, but the aforementioned Star article also noted that, when the subject was discussed during this past February’s meeting of NHL general managers, he gave them information on how he used his equipment to add blocking area.
And given that the GM’s emerged from that meeting unanimously agreeing to address this issue, including Snow, it appears those in this group determined to maintain the status quo could be in a distinct minority.
This issue needs to be addressed, WITHOUT MESSING WITH THE SIZE OF THE NET. I am having a hard time with the bigger equipment for taller goalies though. "Flaps, plastic foils or add-ons" of any kind should not be permitted for sure. But I am not sure the rules need to bent depending on a goalie's height. Making the pads "proportional to your body" leaves the door open yet again for interpretation, too much gray area. Any reduction to the size of the pads should be across the board, period, no exceptions.
1) Its funny to see Garth Snow on any committee that's function is to set limits on goalie equipment size. He was a HUGE(pun intended) reason why restrictions were even discussed in the first place.
2) Look at an old Garth Snow goal-tended game and you'll see why. His shoulder pads went up to about his forehead and his chest protector made him look like he was 350 lbs, etc.
3) The real problem with the NHL (if we agree there is one) is not goalie equipment or even low scoring but the lack of real intense rivalries of years past. We have several ideas on how to do that but doubt the sanitized, 'New Bettman NHL' would want to initiate those/any non-PC changes.
Has anyone seen Ranger backup Steve Valiquette's pads? The flaps on top? Unless he uses those to scratch his chin...LOL.
Personally as a goaltender, I made the switch to 11 inch pads from the 12 inch and I immediately liked them, my mobility improved because there was less padding between my legs to impede the movement of my legs. I'm 6'2" and my pads are 37 inches, I find them a bit tall but not too tall as to affect my play. Unless Zdeno Chara decides on a career change, 38 inches is sufficient.
Maybe a closer look should be taken as to the gloves. The catching glove is still immense compared to 30 years ago. Anyone remember Ken Dryden's mitt? Looked like a baseball glove with a wrist protector! Another comparison can be made just by looking at Patrick Roy. Find a pic of him as a rookie and a pic in his last season.
So goals aren't continuing to go up? So what? Did they expect that decreasing the size of pads was going to make goals go up each year? That's moronic logic. All they need to do is diligently police the rules they have. There are certain goalies who are obviously not following the rules. Is it that hard to penalize goalies who wear bigger pads?
The three top goalies in my bush league break down like this:
5'6, 190 pounds, pads proportionate to his person
5'9, 210 pounds, pads slightly oversized
6'4, 250 pounds, biggest pads I've ever seen
The little guy, not surprisingly, surprises me every time he stops a snipered shot. He's quick, agile, and an extremely sound goalie, rarely caught out of position.
The middle goalie is on my team, is a coward, and I hope he reads this and I hope it makes him cry, thus further demoralizing him (my team shares this sentiment ... we're so nice to each other). He's one of the more technically accurate butterfly-style goaltenders I've played with, though he's got a five-hole I can score on at 200 feet. Though I've never actually played against him, I'm pretty sure I could ruin his day if warm-ups and practices are anything to go by (probably not, but I'm trying to make him cry, alright?).
The big guy is just that. Big. When he's on his knees, you're not scoring unless you hit a top corner. He also uses his stick as a battle-axe, swinging it low at the puck whenever it's within 10 feet of his net. In terms of technical prowess, he's not even on the chart. As my team's substitute goalie (stand-up style), I play a more technical butterfly than he does.
Anyway, the point of it all? If the big guy used smaller pads, he'd be able to move a little faster, but in all fairness there'd be a greater chance of injury since he uses stand-up pads (none of those extra flaps over the top of the knees or anything). If my goalie used size-appropriate pads, I wouldn't embarass him in warm-ups or practices by fiveholing him every shot I take (I'm also a really terrible player, by the way). The little dude would only get worse with bigger pads because it'd slow him down.
"You shouldn't be penalized for being 6-4 or 6-5."
But you should be penalized for being 5'9"? Give me a break.
Matt
I agree with considering (proportionately) larger nets for that reason, but ONLY if the ice surface is also proportionately increased. Seems like that was all I ever heard, was how much bigger the players were today (and not just in hockey). I believe the average height of an NHL player is currently 6'1" (and 204 lbs).
As for a bigger ice surface, there's a way you can achieve essentially the same effect without actually increasing the size of the rink.
I think it was Bobby Smith a few years back who proposed the thick blue lines, so that both the attack zones could "borrow" space from the neutral zone. The three-to-four foot wide blue lines would use the attack zone side to call offsides and the neutral zone side to determine if the attack zone was cleared.
It's an elegant solution that doesn't involve ripping out a row of seats.
As for the size of the players... my data was just for the general population. I don't have this theory proven, but I suspect the average height of NHL players from 1927 trends more toward the societal average, while the height of NHL players in 2008 trends above the societal average.
A question for the Society for International Hockey Research, methinks...
Bottom line is that height differential might be closer to six inches (or more) compared to just four. Those nets keep getting smaller and smaller.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on April 29th at 9:51 PM.
I remember that theory, and I think it was Bobby Smith (he owns our Q-League team). I'm not sold on that theory, however it's intriguing.
I understand your data was for the general population, I was just saying I think that's the average size of today's player, for anyone that was interested. That no doubt is somewhat skewed by the Chara's, Gill's, and Booggards though.
You know, Ken Dryden was 6'4" does any body remember the equipment he wore? I think Spector's buddy Cobra could really give us some insight here. Personally I can remember the chest protectors, compressed cotton or something like that, and less than an inch thick! Today its all lighter and harder which is fine and my chest protector and arm padding is all one piece also fine, but these flaps which almost touch my ear and keep my arms from being able to go over my head are they necessary?
My argument is simply that goalies can wear equipment similar in size to what they were wearing in the 70's and early 80's and still be protected by the "new technology" padding. I'm fine with the new pads, lets concentrate on the upper-body equipment.
Last edited by Cup_Junkie on April 29th at 10:28 PM.
You study should concentrate on the size of goalies, and your findings may not be so different cause even way back when there were stories of "putting the big guy in nets"; like the reason Gump Worsley became a goalie was because when he was a kid, his coach thought he was too fat to play anything else! I'd say the average skater's size increased much more than the average goalie's size. Food for thought!
I think if you study goaltender vital statistics over the history of the game, you'll find much smaller guys in net compared to the rest of the line-up because goal was where you always stuck the shrimps.
Gump Worsley, your "big man", was just 5 foot 7 and 180 pounds. (Maybe a little fat, but certainly not tall.) Run through the line-up of his first NHL team (1952-53 NY Rangers), and you'll see he's the shortest guy on the roster.
Ken Dryden was such a novelty in net because the guy was so blinking big at 6 foot 4 and 205 pounds. He was a giant compared to the other netminders in the league at the time, and he's still a big man even by today's standards.
For comparison, Montreal's pre-Dryden goalie, Rogie Vachon, was just 5 foot 7 and 170 pounds. And Montreal's post-Dryden goalies were more in Rogie's neighborhood: Richard Sevigny (5 foot 8 and 172 pounds), Denis Herron (5 foot 11 and 165 pounds) and Bunny Larocque (5 foot 10 and 200 pounds).
It would need to be proved, but I'd suggest player heights (skaters versus goalies) likely increased at essentially a parallel rate over the 80 year period, as goalies were traditionally among the shortest guys on the team. (Think Darren Pang.)
That said, I suspect goalie heights in the NHL may have spiked upward in recent years as the Butterfly style has become the preferred technique and bigger men have the natural advantage of covering more of the net from their knees.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on April 29th at 11:29 PM.
My point Matt is that goalies may have went fron n5'7" to between 6'0" and 6'4" but forwards have went up from 5'7" to between 6'0" and 6'6" I'm excluding a guy like Chara because he's so above the average, he's more of an anomaly as far as this study would go.
If you need help crunching the numbers, I'd be happy to devote some time to this effort. It could be interesting, "The Spectors Hockey Study Group". We'd have to agree on a specific web site for the biological info though.
Spector's Hockey Study Group! (Heck, if nothing more, we might be able to provide Lyle with fodder for a blog or two.)
Last night I pulled my data from Total Hockey for the individual players and then quickly skimmed HockeyDB.com when I was running through the line-up of the 52-53 Rangers. I think either source would be appropriate for this type of ad hoc project.
Since goalies are a relatively small portion of the overall hockey population, it likely wouldn't be a backbreaking task to run those numbers (especially with many hands involved) to know one way or another.
I'd suggest a spreadsheet listing the player, his height, weight, date of birth, first NHL season and last NHL season. That would give you enough inputs to run a reasonable analysis to see if goalies are getting bigger over time and at what rate. We'd still be left with an unresolved nature versus nurture question, but the data would set the table for that discussion.
I was thinking more of a season by season type of ananysis. Average height of all goalies who played season X. Same thing for season X plus 1, and so on.
Maybe begin with 1927, since that is the year the 6' by 4' net was introduced. Maybe compare average goals per game as well. I'll get started.
The data table I proposed gives you the ability to make a season-by-season analysis -- you have career start points and end points -- but using birth year is the standard for these types of comparisons.
The two questions we want to answer are:
1) Are goaltenders on average getting bigger over time? (General observation tells us yes.)
2) Are they doing so in relative proportion to the rest of the population?
Table 3 of the following article on the Economic History Services website reports average heights by year of birth for the general population.
Based on this table, average height of men born in 1900 is 66.9 inches while for men born in 1970 is 69.8 inches, roughly a 3 inch gain in the 70 year period.
Since the average height calculations for the population in the enclosed table are based on birth year, computing NHL goalies via the same process provides an apples-to-apples comparison. (Given the small population of goalies, we might need to cluster them so our 1900 includes 1896 to 1905, our 1910 includes 1906 to 1915, etc.)
Now, the referenced table is for an American-born population, but the differential between US and Canadian-born populations should be insignificant for our purposes. Another variable are European-born goaltenders: starting points and height gain for European populations likely vary from the Table 3 American averages. However, I'd suggest doing a first run of the numbers to see what if any impact the Euros make.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on May 1st at 10:51 AM.
god, what the hell is the issue here ? DO WE HAVE TO REVISIT EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF THE GAME EVERY YEAR TO APPEASE THOSE WHO THINK HOCKEY NEEDS MORE SCORING ????
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
