Another week, another instance in the NHL of a mindless cheap shot leaving a player injured.
This time, it's Philadelphia Flyers forward Scott Hartnell on Boston Bruins defenseman Andrew Alberts. See for yourself at this link.
Hartnell could've let up on Andrews, who was on his knees near the boards and clearly in a vulnerable position.
Hartnell claims he let up and was just "finishing his check", but there is no reason at all to hit a player who's already down. If Alberts had been on his feet, no harm no foul, but Hartnell saw he was in a vulnerable position and hit him anyway, driving the head of the Bruins blueliner into the boards. Alberts was injured although thankfully not seriously.
The last time these two teams met Flyers forward Randy Jones injured
Boston Bruins forward Patrice Bergeron by checking him from behind into
the boards. That however was inadvertent on Jones' part as he obviously
didn't intend to hurt Bergeron, although debate still rages if Jones
should've let up or if Bergeron put himself in that position to be
hurt. Ultimately, the Bergeron injury was in my opinion an accident.
Like Randy Jones, Hartnell isn't considered a dirty player nor does he have a history of injuring opponents with questionable hits, but there was no reason for him to hit Alberts. It wasn't an accident, it was intentional, and using the excuse "I was just finishing my check" doesn't wash .
It's the fourth time a Flyers player has injured an opponent (the third time it's been done by a deliberate cheap shot) since September. Not only should Hartnell be punished for his actions, but also Flyers head coach John Stevens and GM Paul Holmgren, since it appears they've done little, if anything, to stop these kind of cheap shots by their players.
I'm not singling out the Flyers but this season they've been guilty of multiple incidences of dirty or careless play.
I believe the head coach and general manager of any NHL team that has multiple occurrences of these instances in a season deserve their share of blame and punishment for failing to police their players.
As I've said for some time, if the league doesn't do something to crack down on cheap shots, somebody's going to be crippled or killed.
**UPDATE** Hartnell received a two-game suspension from the league.
"It appears that Mr. Hartnell was attempting to let up on delivering a check
to an opponent that was in a vulnerable position," said NHL Senior Executive
Vice President of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell. "However, at the point
of contact, he did deliver a blow to the head of Mr. Alberts that resulted in
an injury."
What Hartnell did was pretty bad. No two ways about it. He deserves a suspension.
But, it would be fair to mention that Marc Savard cross-checked Danny Briere in the back of the head half way through the second period. That hit was not exactly in the spirit of the game. Fortunately, Briere's helmet absorbed the blow, but where is the mention of that? A hit to the head from behind with two hands on your stick!!!! And NOTHING in the media anywhere. Briere got up and skated on which is why no one has mentioned a damn thing. Had he acted like an Italian footballer, we might be screaming about Savard. However, no one has mentioned it anywhere: TSN, ESPN, THN... Nothing. Shame on all of them. While Savard served two for his infraction, you think the league will take a look at this? Don't answer.
Actually, Briere always acts like an Italian Footballer... so the fact he didn't probably means the hit wasn't that bad. Plus, I believe it was also the second period when Ben Eager ran Chara into the boards when his back was clearly towards him and he was a few feet out. My point here is that there were a few borderline calls that were not whistled, which is fine by me if it goes both ways.
I agree that the organization has to be to blame for the carelessness of their players after a certain point. I don't recall any team having this many serious infractions in such a short period of time. We're not even halfway through the season and suspensions have been a topic of discussion with the Flyers at least 4 times.
Last edited by WilhelmScream on November 27th at 9:30 AM.
I agree 100%... for a team to have four of these suspendable hits in barely a quarter of the season indicates that something is systemically wrong with the Flyers. I don't recall, in any sport, one team so consistently violating rules of conduct and, frankly, common sense.
Max fine Stevens, Holmgren, and the team (if it works that way), and give Hartnell 10-15 games.
Spector, I usually agree with you but not this time. Doesn't anyone see the trend happening in the NHL? Players are not doing anything different other than putting themselves into very dangerous situations! Alberts should have never gone down to his knees to stop a puck along the boards! Watch the play at regular speed and not slo-mo! This is another example of players knowing they can go to their knee block a puck and if they get hit it is going to be a penalty. I have watched a ton of hockey and see very questionable hits night in and night out and nothing is called. I think that they refs are afraid to let the Flyers get away with them because of the their past rep.
leschk00: The only poor judgement Alberts made was dropping to his knees to block a chip-in, since that takes him out of the play. It was positionally a bad move. That doesn't mean he should be blamed for what Hartnell did to him. This wasn't borderline like Jones hit on Bergeron, where Jones was finishing his check and accidentally hurt Bergeron because of the way the latter was facing the boards. Hartnell saw Alberts down, could've turned away or let up or even try to avoid him, and didn't, and claimed he was only "finishing his check". There is no excuse or rationale to justify hitting a player in Alberts' position.
Players will drop to the ice to make plays all the time, to block shots, hold the zone, get a whistle ... that doesn't mean the opposition gets a green light to ram a guys face into the boards. There was nothing "tough", "old time", "hard nosed", or respectable about Hartnell'####. It was a head shot to a vulnerable player and 2 games is an absolute joke.
Wasn't there an agreement to be tough on hits to the head?? Maybe Campbell missed the memo. There have been far too many that have gone unpunished - not just by the Flyers or against the B's either.
I don't wish harm to anyone on the Flyers - but I would be interested to see the comments from Flyers fans if it were one of their players who was the victim. But that won't happen because Flyers players are never in a vulnerable position ... they're that good /sarcasm
Man i happened across the game when the hit came. I'm from the west so i don't watch many Eastern games. There's no two ways about it that was one dirty hit. It doesn't have to be viewed in slow motion to see the danger of the hit. Actually the replay doesn't show the REALLY bad angle of the hit where you can see Hartnells forearm square with the head. No, even the Philidelphia commentators said it was a bad hit.
I hope the league really cracks down on these hits, like say ummm season suspension or kicked from the league for repeating offenders.
Scary hits just ruin the game especially when the player doesn't move for full minutes, like the hit Steve Bernier of the Sharks had last playoffs. It's not fun for any fan to watch one of their players hurt.
Actually, you are wrong. I've watched 22 Flyers games this year and I haven't seen Briere act like an Italian footballer once. So your contention of "always" is highly inaccurate. On the contrary, I guess he had the opportunity when Savard put two hands on his stick and then tattooed the back of Briere's head with said stick, but he didn't. I didn't follow him closely while the kid was in Buffalo, but I think you may have your players confused. He never trained with the Senators, so I don't see why you would be confusing him with a Neil, Emery or even a Kovalev or Crosby. Sorry, Charlie.
Spec - what you are saying is that the hit was illegal or legal, or just cheap because he knew better than to injure the player? If I read accurately, you are claiming that Hartnell'#### could have been avoided and the resulting injury would not have occurred, correct? Further reading leads me to believe that because this is the third or fourth time it has happened, the Flyers need to have some sort of accountability, correct? Lemme ask you this: you think that the Habs should be accountable for Primeau and DiMaio's careers coming to a premature end?
And Eager...c'mon? That was about as "open ice" of a hit as can be. Sucks for Chara, because anytime he goes to the ice, he's likely to touch one of the boards. Not a bad/dirty hit in the faintest.
Last edited by HermanZeGerman on November 27th at 2:39 PM.
Billyscream, I like that... but my name's not William, it's a reference to a canned movie sound effect... moving on...
I'm a Bruins fan, so I DID see Briere play with Buffalo. He has a history of acting. Maybe he did grow up when he signed that large UFA deal. That'd be for the better as he was always supremely talented. My use of the word "always" was an over statement.
I've actually seen Savard dive a lot more than Briere this year, given that I've watched every B's game. I'm not picking on Briere specifically. I'm just saying he's one of many.
No joke that one was ugly. And stupid. As was Eager's boarding on Chara. I didn't see Savard hit Briere, but I wasn't paying really close attention. Besides, Jack Edwards is one of the most biased commentators I've ever heard. He probably passed it off as a "clean hit."
No surprise Ward wanted a piece of Eager after the boarding penalty. The general rules of defensive hockey are:
1. Protect your goalie.
2. Protect your captain.
Good times.
Hartnell'#### on Alberts was just irresponsible. One of the worst hockey plays I've seen in a long time, and anyone watching NESN's coverage saw the behind-the-glass angle of dasher-face-elbow/shoulder-body. Until I saw that angle, I didn't think it was as bad as Edwards was saying, but holy smokes. Someone in the Philadelphia organization needs to start carrying a screwdriver. A few someones have a loose screw or three.
Colin Campbell will probably suspend Hartnell between 2 and 10 games. But I have a better idea. Malicious or not, this has been a recurring problem. Maybe the league should introduce a three-strike system. After three infractions, start docking the team points in the standings a la NASCAR. I bet that'd snap a team into shape in a hurry, from the roster right up to the owner.
Has anyone done the math on Downie's call-ups vs. his suspension? If my math is accurate and he is called up for the Carolina game on Wednesday, he'll have completed his suspension. I noticed that TSN in their "TRANSACTIONS" page claimed he had completed his suspension but I find that specious as he hasn't missed a game for the Phantoms since completing his AHL suspension. Ultimately what I'm getting at is this: is it possible that the Hartnell's replacement on Saturday night against Dallas could in fact be Downie???
This is getting a little silly...I think people are going a little over board here, I actually read on tsn that some people think the team should be punished to the point of loosing draft picks! In all honesty, I think Hartnel should have gotten roughed up by the bruins, not the NHL. When Jones hit Bergeron, I think Bergeron should get a 5 game suspension when he's cleared to play! All these players getting hurt from hits like those and the ones like last night can be avoided...one simply way.....DON'T TURN YOUR BACK!!!!!!! The way the NHL is going, all you have to do is skate bakwards into a zone and no one can hit you or they are going to miss a few games. You see someone coming to hit you, and you turn your back, then your going to get hurt....I'm no big city lawer, but I know thats true. I read somewhere that even Mark Messier thinks hits like this shouldn't be that big of a deal becaus the player getting hit shouldn't put himself in a vulnerable situation...and its true! You see someone coming at you, don't turn your back, the puck is coming towards you and there are players out who are going to hit you, don't drop to your knees becuase then you know you won't get hit...its a mans game, a rough game, people are going to hurt you, if you turn your back or show weakness, they are going to expose it and take advantage of it.
Everyone is saying he should have let up, well he COULD have let up, it doesn't mean he should, count how many times in a game there are little hits behind the play, just minor ones. Then see if the player getting hit, even though its a small hit,
turned his back or went to his knees would get hurt....I'm guessing every time you do that your going to get hurt....so don't do that!
Its a good thing there are still some players with a back bone out there who don't turn there back to every hit, otherwise the NHL wouldn't be talking about getting rid of fighting, they'd make it a no body contact sport....go watch ringette!
Herman: The Habs responsible for injuring those two players you mentioned deserved suspensions. However, Primeau's injury occurred in 2005-06, DiMaio's last season, not both in the same season, which isn't indicative of the same pattern of reckless behavior as we've seen out of one team - the Flyers - this season, especially barely over twenty games into one season!
Last edited by Spector on November 27th at 3:45 PM.
I disagree that Hartnell is a "clean player". He almost took Johnathan Cheechoo out of the playoffs last year with a knee to knee hit and claimed "I was trying to finish my check".
He's a bum - give him 20 games.
Beyond Harnell, what the Heck is going on in Philly? I think the commissh needs to fine the organization whewn so many cheap shots come from one team.
Just noticed the EC standings. If the season ended today, we might see some fireworks in the first round third and sixth seed series.
Saw some rabblerousers at the article announcing Hartnell's suspension on foxsports, and I can't help but wonder who's using what as a definition for hockey, and why. Don't get me wrong, as a red-blooded American, I have a rather high tolerance for violence. Then again, we also have the NFL. Hockey's sort of the in-between where we have a little bit of violence in body contact (sometimes bubbling over into fisticuffs), surrounded largely by skilled players engaged in an epic 60-minute duel.
So, answer me this: Since when is Andrew Alberts, a guy not unknown for dropping the gloves when necessary, a wuss; and at what point did we accept the hockey equivalent of the sucker-punch as standard operating procedure?
As a Habs fan, it is my moral duty to hate the Flyers. But even I can admit that Hartnell was not fully responsible for the hit. Who cares if he's not the cleanest player in the NHL? Alberts dropped to his knees, his head was at elbow height, and Hartnell let up, even the NHL's mouthpiece said so! To say that because a player gets hurt a suspension is handed out sets a bad precedent. That affirms that only cheap-shots that lead to an injury merit suspension. What about intent?
I'd like to see
how mant games Alberts misses because of this hit!
The league seems to be taking a hard stance with the Flyers, it wouldn't surprise me to see the NHL suspends the next Flyer who delivers a clean check that injures a player, Philly is really getting a bad rap for all this.
That being said, I still think they su......it might get censored so just think about what a vacuum cleaner does.
Last edited by Cup_Junkie on November 27th at 5:46 PM.
I still think the comments about the organization being any different than any other because of the number of suspensions is incorrect. Let's face facts..Boulerice had incidents even before getting to the NHL, and the Flyers have admitted both he and Downie were 100% wrong and that their actions weren't acceptable. They have zero to do with the Hartnell and Jones incidents, which were hits with unfortunate outcomes. The fact that these guys share the same roster doesn't mean they all get together and plot ways to hit guys in the head. Especially considering it doesn't exactly benefit them to lose players over and over. Yeah, I'm quite sure the pep talk Hartnell got was "If you get a chance to take out that great enforcer, go for it." Give me a break. It's not the coach or GM's responsibility to make players respect each other. It is their own. I'm tired of people saying organizations should pay the price for the actions of people inside them. If you beat someone to a pulp in your workplace, it doesn't mean your boss is responsible. The three strikes makes sense to me. I don't think Hartnell is a dirty hack, but I don't like his lack of taking responsibility for the hit either. The fact he was only suspended for two games indicates the league doesn't see the same motives as many of the posters.
I really don't understand the "blame the victim" mentality here. Sure, you have to be careful in hockey, but the rules exist to allow players to try and do more than constantly look over their shoulders. If the game was played by the "if you turn your back or show weakness" standard, then the game would get pretty boring pretty quick.
I don't really think the game would get boring if players were carefull....in the past few years players started turning their backs to on coming hits and have been hurt more since. It makes sense, don't be a wussy and you won't get hurt.
Perhaps that is true in some cases, but surely not this one with Alberts... defensemen should be able to drop to a knee to keep a puck in without getting their heads checked into the board... I don't think it is the same as turning one's back to a hit to draw a penalty or avoid the hit.
so droping to a knee means you shouldn't get hit??? So when your going down the ice and you look up at the last second and see a guy coming at you, drop to a knee, you might get hurt bad, but have the option and then the other guy will get a suspension....better yet, just turn your back and skate in backwards, if someone hits you its a bloody crime!!! theres no need for that play in todays hockey!
I know I'm getting rediculous, but its the same thing. Its ok to drop to a knee, but when you do that, you leave yourself exposed, I can see doing it when no one is around and your in your zone alone or something, but don't do it when people are around and cry cause those people hit you
If this is a problem that the NHL is serious about getting rid of they should give him a 20 game suspension. No question about it. If the guy was standing up when taking the hit from behind it would be a different story, but he was already down on his knees.
I've read your posts and you are good, fun to read and all that. But Hockey sucks. I'm sorry. I can't stand it.
Now I'll watch it when the Olympics come. I understand the game, and like it somewhat, but the NHL and the fighting is so stupid. I like to see someone get his head beaten up just like any ole man from our side of the chromozones. But to allow this, in a supposedly professional game, for any reason, is wrong. What message is being sent to the kids. It's just one more thing to bring down society to another low.
I love the UFC. Thats the place to do this stuff.
Peace and have a great christmas. I'm not dissing on you as I am the NHL.
OFF - your comments might be valid IF either Alberts or Bergeron did what they did to avoid the check which isn't the case in either. Bergeron didn't turn his back to Jones - that was the angle he was taking to play the puck the entire duration of the play. Alberts went to a knee to block the puck from going into his own end, not to dodge Hartnells check. These aren't actions taken to draw a penalty or avoid contact. If Alberts dropped to his knees to make Hartnell miss or fly over him into the boards then I would be cursing Alberts for being a dirty SOB but clearly his actions had nothing to do with Hartnell or what his intentions were.
On a side note ... did anyone see Prongers cross check on Kesler or Phaneufs hit on Hudler last night? Why is it that these guys are allowed to get off on name alone. That Pronger play was disgusting, brutally late after Kesler had scored ... the guy was already celebrating. And why does Phaneuf need to leave his feet to take a guys head off? He's one of the best hitters in the league and could have hammered him with a clean check and had just as much of an impact.
I don't really care if the Commissioner said Hartnell "let up" on the hit. Hartnell went 4-5 feet to make the hit after andrews was on his knee's if Hartnell 'let up' there wouldn't have been a hit at all. Let me ask how many players in the NHL would actually check someone on there knees? It's a worst judgement then checking someone on the back, you just don't do it!
I'd like Hartnell to explain how he exactly was planning on hitting alberts in the shoulders when alberts head barely came up to his waist.
these are not moments where players lose their tempers. these hits are the results of a coaching style that encourages taking a player out of the play whatever the consequences might be.
i don't think the broad street bullies played this way. they fought and took penalties but i think the intent was to intimidate but not to injure.
What's really a shame is that a non-hockey fan (Marty Malker, see a few posts back) even has the balls to troll on spector's blog. Only NFL fans do that kind of garbage. BTW, if you really want a thug sport then the NFL is it. There's already another player in trouble today for pulling a gun on a woman (Carolina Pathers). Anyway, I just saw the hit and it was a cheap shot but to anyone wanting to punish the team for this you are wrong. This is just payback for the year long abuse that the Flyers took in 06-07 from EVERY TEAM. Also, habsnyc--this is exactly the 70's Flyers played.
Last edited by Pueblo on November 28th at 11:36 AM.
Cup Junkie...you are dead on when it comes to the fact that officials (and the league) are reacting to the injuries rather than the intent. And yes I am a Flyers fan, but still appreciate your opinion even though its your moral duty to hate the Flyers. Its obvious that the hatred for particular franchises is having a snowball effect here when it comes to discussing this issue...but I can see you're a true fan of the sport even if you hate the Flyers.
Spec- I respect your opinion and knowledge of the game and while I agree that the Downie and Boulerice incidents were inexcusable, I think the outrage from the Jones and Hartnell incidents is getting overblown. Simply put, if Bergeron and Alberts got up and skated to the bench, would we be discussing the 2 or possibly 4 minute double-minors? I agree the respect issue amongst the players must be addressed but this isn't a Flyers issue...its a League-wide issue.
If and when a Flyer is the injured player, I will look at the intent and not the result before spewing hatred towards a player or franchise...passions are a part of hockey and hockey fandom, but lets use a little common sense when we analyze these incidents.
(Before ripping me to shreds for this post, please first Google "Jonathan Swift".)
A modest proposal: Get rid of helmets.
Back when players didn't wear headgear we didn't have all this headhunting savagery like nowadays. Oh sure, Wayne Maki and Ted Green might have had a bit of a dust-up back in the day, but players respected each other, and knowing the head was a vulnerable region they kept their elbows and sticks down. It was a gentleman's game, after all.
But, once you armour the head, suddenly it becomes a target. The thought process is akin to "I'm not going to hurt him, so let's give him a shot to the noggin, a stick to the back of the skull, to get him off the puck and let him know I'm here." And then, once that level of thuggery becomes socially acceptable, we get more vicious acts. Kevlar padded elbows to the face. Shoulder pads that would shame a footballer into the mush. Composite stick crosschecks that drive players into seamless glass boards that have no give.
The answer is clear. We must stop making the head an inviting target by banning helmets. Then civility will return to our great game.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on November 28th at 1:41 PM.
I hate how so many wimps complain about hits from behind that can be avoided! "Bergeron didn't turn his back to Jones - that was the angle he was taking to play the puck the entire duration of the play." Well if I skate along the boards and make it so my back is turned then no one can hit me, right??? Bergeron "used that angle" to get the puck and not get hit....but its a freaking body contact sport...if he wasn't a wimp and went in like most real men in the NHL then he would have got pasted with a shoulder and been roughed up a bit and would have kept playing (maybe not since he's a wimp!) and we wouldn't be talking about it...Good players don't put themselves in vulnerable situations!!!!!!!!! Guys are going to try and hit you, don't try to find a way around it. If someone went out on the ice in a wheel chair could he do whatever he wanted because its imoral to hit a guy in a wheelchair, or would he understand that if your out there your going to get hit? Both of these hits (Jones and Hartnell) coudl have been avoided if the guys being hit weren't afraid of body contact. Bergeron is frail and didn't want to get hit, but he did. Alberts lacks the hockey skill of most defensemen to stop the puck on 2 feet instead of all 4's. They deserve the hits they got, it is unfortunate that they are hit because the bad thing is the league got a black eye from their carelessness.
And las nights hit by Phaneuf was pretty clean...He ended up leaving his feet from forward momentum. He's like a train, but he's not on tracks that keep him down
Spector, my question is, why isn't anyone taking a look at some of the things that are leading up to these suspensions? Or some of the liberties that Flyers players are having taken with them? Because they aren't getting hurt, it's ok for penalties not to be called?
Why is no one mentioning that the Flyers organization DID take action with Boulerice by releasing him, specifically because of what he did to Kessler?
We've got players that have head shots taken with 3 seconds left in a game that the Flyers won. Downie had a from behind cheap shot before the McAmmond hit, which wasn't called. That penalty gets called and maybe McAmmond doesn't get hurt. That doesn't excuse what Downie did, he never should have left his feet or attempted to hit him in the head.
Why is it that Coburn and Briere can get sticks to the head, but not get any calls?
How is it that Ohlund can take a two handed "baseball bat" swing and break someone's leg and only get 4 games? Try convincing me he didn't mean it. Please.
The NHL is back to its inconsistant ways again, plain and simple. You want to stop shots to the head? Call ALL of them, not just the ones where players get hurt. You want players to not get hurt? Maybe players should spend some time on how not to put themselves in dangerous situations.
The NHL has alot of explaining to do with their suspension "system", because it sure doesn't seem to be applied evenly.
OFF: Bergeron skated straight towards where he and the puck were going to intercept. What do you want him to do, skate through the boards with it? He's either going to stop or turn once he picks it up, which means he's going to slow down. Regardless, he had position on Jones. Jones was moving slower, and the puck was moving away from him. Where's the legal part of that hit, and how's it Bergeron's fault that he beat Jones to the puck?
Bergeron is frail? Weird, I've never seen him shy away from either the giving or receiving end of checks. Nor has he backed down from a battle in the corners. Sounds like a guy fearing for his life every time the proposition of body contact comes up, right?
Hartnell was skating into position from center ice to the point where he hit Alberts. Maybe he's one of those players that never bothers to look around, so he didn't know until he was on top of him that Alberts had left his feet. The complete talentless package, right? Alberts sucks so much he has to go down on his knees to stop a puck, the lanky player he is, and Hartnell sucks so much he doesn't look around at all. Am I right?
Alberts went down to block a bouncing puck in order to get control or deflect it to one of his teammates. He never actually had posession. And since Hartnell was moving in the opposite direction of the play, hey why not make it look like he can't stop and let Alberts know he's around, right?
A neophyte could see it was a good play. The Bruins kept offensive control of the puck. Had Alberts been standing (and he would have, had he thought he could control it from an upright position), it would have been a clean body check.
Did Bergeron stop and turn his back to Jones or not??? He knew he wasn't the only one going for the puck so what did he do when he saw the player going for the puck???? He turned his back, weather it was to skate away or to sheild the puck......HE TURNED HIS FREAKING BACK!!!!!!!!!
Alberts went down to stop the puck, Hartnell went to take him out. If a player tonight sees a check coming and puts his face down at a level where he'll get creamed in the face, is it dirty, or did the player about to get hit do something dumb?
STUPID INCIDENTS LIKE THESE ARE AVOIDED EVERY GAME BY ONE SIMPLE THING.............................. ................................... ................................COM MON SCENSE!
Matt, I liked your reasoning - way too many pads used to inflict pain rather than protect the user. It all comes down to respect. I remember in last years final, an Ottawa player (Kelly?) had one of Anaheim's young bulls (Getzlaf maybe) down on the ice and could have cleaned his clock out. Pierre McGuire was a few feet away and commented that the Ottawa player followed "the code" of not taking advantage of a player when he had him in a vulnerable position. The game needs more of that and less of the BS cheap shots. How the league deals with these is a mystery to me! I wouldn't want the job, but I would lean towards punishment meant to eradicate the problem.
"Bergeron "used that angle" to get the puck and not get hit....but its a freaking body contact sport" - sorry man but this is complete #### ... have you ever watched Bergeron play before? He's one of the most aggressive forecheckers in the league and isn't one to shy away from contact. The angle he took was to make a play for the puck, not to avoid the check.
Ditto for Alberts - the play he made had absolutley nothing to do with Hartnell ... Hartnell wasn't even close to him.
I really don't believe you're that blind that you actually think that this was the case. Anybody who watches either of those replays can see that neither guy did what they did (stupid or not) to avoid the hits.
Oh and btw ... Matt, brilliant work on the modest proposal!
Just to put this in context OFF - you're logic is somewhat akin to me trying to justify purposely running over a pedestrian because he didn't look both ways before he crossed the street. Sure he should have been more careful, but I didn't need to speed up and aim for him.
Matt's got a point. But lets take it further. The league changed the rules concerning goalie equipment right? They should do the same for players, at least as far as elbow and shoulder bads go. Return to wooden sticks as well. I'd keep the helmets though. Afterall, players are complaining that the new Reebok equipment is too waterproof and all the sweat is accumulating in their gloves and skates.
Hartnell crushing Alberts head off of the dasher with his hip was a pure intent to injure. I am all for old time hockey hits, fights and cheap shots. But clear intent to injure must be dealt with by the league.
Intent to injure suspensions should be 1 game greater than the injured players games missed.
OFF: So, forwards aren't supposed to try to beat their check to the puck? Let's use some logic here. The puck's in front of him, Jones is behind him, right? So at what point did he turn his back on Jones? When he blew by him and gained position? He never put his back to Jones with the intention of drawing a penalty, he put his back to Jones by being a faster skater in the situation and beating his man to the puck. Nobody deserves a face-to-the-dasher move for playing the game correctly.
Alberts was already out of the play. He's not moving forward or backward at speed because he's not on his feet. Finishing a check on a guy already off his feet is like kicking a dying dog. His intentions were very clear when you saw him look directly at Alberts' head prior to crushing him. Complete cowardice. If he had an issue with Alberts, meet in the middle of the ice with fists like a man.
I really hope you're just playing Devil's Advocate. Had someone made a run on Iginla or Phaneuf like that, would your story remain the same?
Great topic Spector... Downie and Boulerice incidents were inexcusable. While I don't agree with some overboard opinions out there such as a loss of draft picks, I am alarmed at the number of incidents involving Flyers players. Bizzdog... I've always held the same opinion on the suspension. It bothers me to see a cheap shot perpetrator returning from suspension sooner than the player he injured.
Bergeron beat Jones to the puck and stoped in front of him. Its a race to the puck, but you don't stop as soon as you get there and say "hey, I got here first, now go back and give me room to move" Stuff like this happens every game, but most of the people avoid things like these by not stoping infront of someone.
If a pedestrian doesnt look both ways when crossing the street and gets hit, is it the drivers fault for hitting him where he souldn't have been crossing?? If Bergeron came in at a different angle or played the puck at a different angle he wouldn't be in this situation, he'd be lighting the lamp like he should....he's not.
Whats the differnece between turning your back or lowering your head when it comes to hits? If you get upset when someone is hit from behind because they didn't see it, why not get upset when someone gets hit with their head down, they didn't see it either....
Does that mean that Perezhogin should never play again because he ended Primeau's career? Bertuzzi due to Moore? Stevens for Lindros?
The real issue is where do you say one thing is an accident and the other a cheap shot? Virtually all injuries could be avoided in hockey if players didn't hit one another. But they do. Jones' hit wasn't cheap. Hartnell's was stupid. I don't think he intended to hurt the kid, but there is no reason for what he did. Boulerice should be banned from the league and Downie is teenager. Time will tell what kind of control he has. But to link the three under the claim that the coach and GM are breeding a culture is preposterous. Homer and Stevens are two decent guys who like hard, aggressive hockey but never in a million years want to see anyone get hurt. On the contrary, it is my guess that Homer/Stevens are the types of guys that want every team to have their full compliment of players available so there won't be any excuses. These guys are competitors and they like playing against the best. I think that is a pervasive attitude in the sport - one of the reasons I enjoy it so much. Sure, there is the occasional cheap shot as well as the rare bad apple. Look at the handshake after a playoff series: exhausted competitors congratulating one another and being entirely sincere about it (unless you are Ciccarelli and you just shook the hand of the bad apple Lemieux). Next topic please...
Listen Hartnell isn't a dirty player and neither is Jones. The real fact of the matter is that both Bruins put themselves in poor position just before being hit. Let's see you completely stop you momentum when a players shifts and you're following through. On that play Alberts should have never dropped to his knees - it was unnecssary. Colin Campbell has no guts. He should have never suspended Jones or Hartnell. The next time a Flyer is injured I want to see him suspend the culprit. If you look at the tape it is easy to see in both cases there was no intent to injure. The Downey hit and the Bolderice high stick did deserve suspensions but these last 2 please give me a break.
If I'm out in my car and I run over someone, and it can be shown I didn't intend to kill them, then I'll get charged with vehicular manslaughter versus something more serious like murder in the first degree.
A pair of games is the hockey equivalent of manslaughter. Regardless of intent, you are still responsible for your actions on the ice.
In the past years the NHL has punished players for legal hard hits that have caused injury to the other players.
However it seems that “finishing your check” in the NHL today is using your hands / forearm to the other players head into the boards / glass at the end of the hit. A body check dos not require you to lift your hands to your opponents head!! This is commonly accepted EXCEPT when the contact is to the back of the head that sends the players face into the glass. This is what makes the Jones hit on Bergeron borderline. Bergeron put himself in that position is responsible for getting the hit. The NHL should not protect the player racing to the puck to get there back turned to the other player before he gets there drawing a hit from behind penalty.
The Alberts hit was inexcusable Hartnell did not pull up and made sure his face went into the dasher. Targeting a guy who was already on his knees is poor. Probably Hartnells only chance of taking down someone like Alberts.
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
