On Tuesday the Dallas Stars fired Doug Armstrong as their general manager, hiring Les Jackson and former NHL star Brett Hull as “co-general managers” for the remainder of this season.
Eyebrows were raised over this decision as the Stars’ record was 7-7-2 at the time of Armstrong’s firing, but the reason had less to do with the record and more to do with some of the stumbling performances in those losses.
Sealing Armstrong’s fate was the Stars blowing a 4-0 lead over the LA Kings on Saturday, falling 6-5 in overtime.
Armstrong caught considerable flak from Dallas fans and pundits for his inability to improve the Stars roster this summer, as did owner Tom Hicks for his perceived unwillingness to spend more on the team’s roster, although their current payroll of $48.3 million disproves that notion.
The sin here is Armstrong failed to build on the strong foundation left by his predecessor Bob Gainey.
Most of the Stars top players – Mike Modano, Jere Lehtinen, Sergei Zubov, Mattias Norstrom, Phillipe Boucher – are in the early-to-late thirties and appear in various stages of decline this season.
Except for Brendan Morrow and Mike Ribeiro there’s no younger players either capable of stepping up now or waiting in the wings.
As one pundit observed, the Stars have in recent years resembled the New York Islanders of the mid-to-late 1980s, in that they’re still a good team but one fading rapidly as management fails to bring in or develop young talent to replace aging stars.
An air of uncertainty may be hovering over the Stars right now but it’s
too early to predict imminent doom because of their change of
management.
It’ll be interesting to see what Hull and Jackson do, although it’s a safe bet that rival NHL GMs will be contacting these management novices looking to fleece them.
That’s not to suggest Hull and Jackson will fall prey to their experienced rivals. While some observers are either puzzled by or mocking their hiring, it must be remembered that the New York Islanders also made a puzzling management hire last year in Garth Snow and he’s proven thus far to be more than capable in the role.
If Jackson and the outspoken Hull prove as capable as Snow the Stars could be in good hands.
I suspect Hull and Jackson will take some time to evaluate the club’s roster, as well as determine the course owner Hicks wants to take, before making any plans regarding roster change.
What’ll be more interesting is how the players respond to this change, and whether it spurs them into better performances. If nothing changes, the next person fired could be head coach Dave Tippet, or one of the current members of the roster could be changing addresses.
This will backfire on the Stars in no time flat. Armstrong needed to go that is a fact, but the Stars don't have alot of quality trade bait. (Like Paul Holmgren had last year stepping in for Clarke) Modano is in free fall as far as I am concerned. Beyond that who do they have. You know Morrow isn't going anywhere and I doubt anyone is knocking down the door for Zubov or Lehtinen.
i think dallas' decline has much to do with draft position. dallas has not drafted higher than 25th for 11 years. from 87 to 97 they drafted eight times in the top 11. armstrong was left with a bare cupboard in the minors.
clearly, armstrong did a lousy job restocking the team and with the exception of ribeiro, he was unable to trade for young talent. he didn't win in the playoffs and he didn't rebuild, he just let the status quo slowly rust.
but i'm not sure that gainey left a very strong foundation in dallas. gainey did a fantastic job bringing in veterans and free agents to win a Cup. under his guidance, dallas spent very wisely. it was a textbook example of skillfully adding veterans to a young core, getting a great coach and winning it all.
but gainey paid the price for winning with veterans. he traded away draft picks and prospects. the team was already suffering when he was forced to fire hitch and decided that it was time for him to leave as well. the team did not make the playoffs in the season that gainey resigned. in his final offseason, gainey made a couple of uncharacteristic moves, signing one dimensional players like turgeon and audette. gainey left the team with a roster of 35+ year old vets like Nieuwendyk, Muller, Verbeek, Kamensky, Gilchrist, Maclean, Hogue and Belfour and his fianl offseason additions did not fit the team's chemistry.
armstrong didn't do a great job, but given the aging roster lack of prospects and poor draft positions, he was not given a core of talent around which to build. dallas still ranks near the bottom
habsnyc: It's more a problem with scouting than draft position. Sure, we'd all love to get the first pick and grab the stars like Crosby or Ovechkin, but where the Stars have failed is in their finding the hidden gems in later rounds. Detroit has had low draft picks for years now too but has pulled out players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the last couple rounds. Drafting late isn't an excuse for not getting talented players.
Of course the things Armstrong did have more control over (trades, free agents, etc) didn't exactly do much to bolster the lack of drafting success either.
I have no problem with the firing of Armstrong, it is the situation after that I find a bit distressing. Management by commitee is a hard thing to pull off. It could go really well if both men are of like minds and mesh well together. If not, things can get deadlocked in a hurry. I think tht it will be hard to put off as other executives in the league will be looking to exploit any sign of a split between them. I hope it works.
fogal - i agree. the end of my comment was cut off due to space. but i suggested they hire a new north american scouting team. their successful picks have come from europe and they have not has a great north american pick since morrow. i think the poor scouting existed both under gainey and armstrong.
Spector, just read your soapbox for 11/14/07. Thankyou!! It's about time someone finally said what needed to. Hopefully the "anonymous blogger" will take some notes and learn what he is supposed to be doing when making up rumors.
Cobra,
I totally agree with the notion that Dave Taylor will be the eventual successor to Armstrong. I'm actually surprised they didn't just do it yesterday.
Nothing personal against the Dallas Stars, but I hope they freefall to the bottom of the conference this year. After all, the Kings have the Stars first rounder in this year's draft. Thank you Dean Lombardi!!
Yes, there are some good young guys on our Iowa team that Armstrong saw fit to send back down. Joel Lundqvist and Loui Eriksson as well as Tobias Stephan. From what I read Jano Vas has been doing very well. There are several more that with the proper training will be very good. At this point we have Matt Niskanen, Chris Conner, Nicklas Grossman and Krys Barch up with us now. Chris Conner was the leading scorer in preseason and Armstrong saw fit to send him back to Iowa. GO FIGURE. Chris' only problem is that he is little. He is about 5'8" but he is VERY fast. He will be a good one as he is a little spitfire.
It's hard to get good draft picks when your GM gives all your early round picks away for the likes of Modry, Stefan and several rehab players like Lindros, Fedoruk and Barnaby. Armstrong was a real gem. It's just too bad it took so long to get rid of him. The damage he has done to this team has begun to landslide but they WILL eventually pull out of it. Jackson and Hull are two totally different personalities so it should be interesting but I think they will do o.k. I am afraid that our fate is set in stone this year but I fully believe that this team will build back up but I think there are still several changes in the coaching staff that need to be made. GO STARS!!!
Lindros was an UFA signing. Ditto for Fridge. And Dallas traded Niko Kapanen and a 7th Rounder for Modry and Stefan which can be argued was a brilliant trade at the time.
Granted, Armstrong shipped next year's first rounder out for Norstrom, but he is an established blueliner.
My history is foggy and I don't know if Armstrong was around when Dallas' 2003 first rounder was cast off in a trade, but that was a bad move. The 2003 Draft was the deepest in many, many years - you basically couldn't miss.
I do think that James Neal and Ivan Vishnevsky will be bona fide NHLers. Time will tell.
Armstrong was not horrible. He did make that team competitive every year. Many of the playoff disappointments can be traced to the under-performance of the players. He made deft trade deadline deals for name players who failed to carry their promise (Nagy). While he appeared to be "stuck", he wasn't a bad GM. With that said, it was time for some fresh thinking. All in all, a necessary move by Dallas. But don't think for one second Armstrong was a detriment to the team.
Last edited by HermanZeGerman on November 15th at 9:10 AM.
herman, dallas' first round 03 pick (#28 overall) went to anaheim for the 36th and 54th picks. anhaheim got corey perry and dallas selected eriksson and b.j. crombeen.
Herman - We will just have to agree to disagree. Armstrong was inept and, in my opinion and that of several hundred other fans on various blogs and columns, he was incompetent. He did not make the team competitive. They were competitive in spite of him. Lindros had a very checkered past but he still brought him in and he, as we expected he would, missed most of the season.
Another point - age - when DA took over as GM the guys were obviously younger. Of course the natural progression of life is that you grow older. Knowing that, why didn't he do something about the older players then before all the big contracts and extensions were done?
I have never read any background on Stefan that indicated that he was the player we needed, other than he was a first round draft pick that never played like it. I don't know anyone that understands why we brought in Fedoruk. He doesn't win fights and he doesn't fight because he is trying to protect a teammate. He just fights (as evidenced by the video where his face got smashed and he was turned into the Tin Man.) Why did DA bring him in when we have Ott, Barch and Morrow, if necessary? Daley has been known to take up for a teammate on occasion and does a pretty good job as does Robidas.
DA just wasted time and money bringing in a lot of non-essential people and he let some good ones get away because he didn't want to pay them or he wanted to replace one good player with two very questionable ones because............WHY? He is gone and I am glad. I have lobbied for that for over two years. I just wish it had happened sooner.
Last edited by ParrotLady on November 16th at 3:46 AM.
I guess we'll have to bow to the Stars' ownership's superior knowledge of this, but I think putting two guys into this type of position this early in the season is just a bit of a nightmare. This really appears to be a rash decision. Armstrong didn't impress me with his offseason moves, but I don't think Dallas' lineup is that horrid at all. I see their main issues this season as being the coach getting the most out of his guys rather than not bringing in enough additional talent. That's what the trade deadline is for.
I definitely agree with the age comment, but I doubt Hull and Jackson are going to start selling away the estate for promising youngsters (a la Homer last year in Philly) unless they get way worse in a hurry. And if that happens, you'd have to question how the ownership can toss out an experienced GM without giving him a proper chance to correct his potential mistakes.
Even if you did want to toss him in the can for one poor offseason, replacing him with two guys, one of which is perennial loudmouth Brett Hull, just reeks of desperation. I admit that I didn't expect Snow to perform capably, but that doesn't mean any ex-player gets a free pass because they are popular around town. Hull appears brash and abrasive, and it's unclear to me what he's going to add to this without any real experience short of canned in-game commentary. I guess it's a wait and see, but I think the ownership is hiring a familiar face to try to avoid being pointed at as the real cause for concern here.
You are correct about the roster, at this point. I don't have a problem with anyone on the team with the exception of our 6 million dollar goalie. He has some absolutely wonderful saves but then in the same game he seems to just fade away and watch the pucks go by. But, Marty is loved by so many fans that there would probably be a coup d'état if anything were to happen to him.
Again, as for Brett Hull, I totally agree with you but, unfortunately, Mr. Hicks is not involved enough in this team to make a proper decision on this position. Brett has some great ideas but they would be a 180 degree turnaround from what the team is doing now. I really don't know much about Dave Taylor but, unless he just flat didn't want to do it, I think he would be the better choice since he has experience. I'm just not so sure that the team will appreciate Brett's demeanor.
As I said before, I wish Hicks would sell the team to someone that cares more about "THE" team and is not running around all over the world purchasing other "toys" to keep him happy. I am just afraid of getting into the same scenario as the Preds and end up getting a buyer that wants to move the team back to Canada. That really worries me because it seems the only buyers that come forward are Canadian and they think the whole league should be out of the U.S. and back in Canada.
I have taked a few days to gather my thoughts on this (so I don't read like an #### like I usually do) and while I have no respect for Tom Hicks or Hicks Sports Marketing, this maybe a blessing for the Stars. In reading the other posts on this and some other blogs, its becoming evident that a GM in hockey today needs to be a really savvy strategic financial planner. Look at at the teams that are really handcuffed by the cap.
Maybe Hull and the scouting staff will work on evaluating the talent while the other gentleman will try to best manage the cap so the Stars can make the changes they need to, and build to compete with Anaheim and San Jose who deep and rich in youthful talent.
Thanks for the 411 on the 2003 Draft. Dallas did kinda miss the boat on that one. When you couldn't miss, they did. And that means that they traded one for two misses. Not a good showing.
ParrotLady:
Lindros was signed to a meager, incentive-rich contract. It really didn't cost the Stars much to bring him in. The upside was there and, therefore, a prudent move as it was inexpensive.
As for Stefan, he had all the upside in the world, hence his No. 1 selection. Sometimes a player simply needs a change of scenery. Here, Armstrong traded spare parts for tremendous upside. Stefan didn't succeed in Dallas, but it cost Armstrong a bag of pucks to do it. Can't fault him for it.
I will disagree with you on Fridge. He's a very good fighter and, above all else, he's a great presence in the locker room. Fellas love him and he is a cheap asset to have.
In '03, he traded for Claude Lemieux (playoff stud) and Lyle Odelein - two great playoff rentals.
In 06, he brought in Willie Mitchell for a playoff rental.
Since, he's brought in Jeff Halpern and traded for Mike Riberio.
He's been conservative, but he hasn't done anything damaging to the club. On the contrary, he's had a winner and made some sensible additions throughout his tenure.
If you want to talk about ruining the franchise for the NOW, then the Nieuwendyk for Iginla trade was the one that you should focus on. But that wasn't Armstrong. And even that was good enough to push Dallas over the hump to claim a Cup.
Ø Halpern free agent signing
Ø Nordstrom acquisition (but cost was very high)
Ø Ribiero and 6th rounder in '08 from Canadiens for Niinimaa and
5th in 2007
Ø Stu Barnes from Buffalo for Mike Ryan and 2003 2nd round pick
Ø Boucher free agent signing
Ø Hagman for a 7th round pick (His best trade)
Moves that have failed
Ø Lindros free agent signing
Ø Barnaby free agent signing
Ø Nagy acquisition for Tjvarnquist and 1st round in 2007
Ø Modry and Stefan for Kapanen and a 7th rounder in 2007 (although
Modry was peddled in the deal for Nordstrom)
Ø Niinimaa and 2007 5th rounder for Erskine and 2006 2nd rounder
Ø Arnott and McKay for Niewendyk and Langenbrunner (Arnott is
gone, Langenbrunner and Niewy win cup with Devils in 2003)
Ø Willie Mitchell rental and 2nd round pick for Skoula and Shawn
Belle
Ø Jaroslav Svoboda from the Carolina Hurricanes in exchange for a
fourth round draft pick in 2005.
Overall, he has been sub par and it was time for a change.
the big questoin in my mind is had dallas not done the Nieuwendyk for Iginla trade, would they still have won the cup?
Dallas had to make the trade because it led to the Cup, but if they didn't make it, could Dallas still have won a Cup? by 98-99 Iginla was as good a scorer as Nieuwendyk and more physical, but Joe was a great faceoff man. i think they probably could have won without the trade. but they would have needed to sign a free agent second line center.
Herman - Well, once again, it appears that Fedourk is NOT needed on the Stars. I know in his day he was good but as most "tough guys" find out, those good days don't last very long. I sure hope someone picks him up. I saw some of his "antics" at training camp this year when he tripped and went sliding into the boards. He got up and began ####ing his stick on the glass, the boards and anything else he could find. He pulled the same thing at a game when he received a penalty at the end of a period. As he went to the dressing room he hit the sticks that were propped by the door knocking several of them down. He IS A WASTE OF SPACE ON THIS TEAM. I also know that Mr. Hicks went to some of the core players before all these changes came down and they solidified what he thought the situation was.
As for the Ribiero situation, you will never convince me that the trade was DA's idea. I know that the Habs were quite disinchanted with Ribs and my thought is that Gainey came to us and asked to trade.
I know that winning one game does not a turnaround make but I think our performance against the Avs was a confidence builder. Now we shall see what we do about our old nemises, the Kings.
There have been just too many gaffs the past few years that DA was directly responsible for. This firing should have happened at least two years ago. And, BTW, the Niko trade was another bad deal. Niko is not a Nik Hagman but he was not that bad. We traded him to get Modry and Stefan and that took us absolutely nowhere. Now look at Niko. He has come back to bite us in the butt with all his goals
Fine. Fridge is pathetic and Armstrong is pathetic. Every decision he made was awful. The Dallas Stars have historically had ####-poor records and it is all Armstrong's fault. Perhaps you should GM. We'll see what wizardry comes from your decisions.
Do you read BKI's list? The good trades' impact was far greater than the poor moves. Face it, a UFA signing that cost him little cap space isn't a detrimental move. The players may not have lived up to promise, but these signings didn't hurt the team in any way, shape or form. Every GM pulls a couple of bozo trades, but Armstrong's sub par trades really didn't have any dramatic effect on the team.
Perhaps it is time to lay off the rum, argh, matie? Time to realize that he may not have been top five, but he wasn't a horrible GM. While I do think his time has come, you can't say he was damaging to the club.
Herman - OKEE-DOKEE then. It sounds like you think you have GM qualities. I have written letters and e-mails for two years about getting rid of DA and Lites. Many other fans have done the same. Funny thing is we simply had a body that just took up space and contributed nothing with Todd and Stefan and to some extent Modry. You can add Lindros to that list as well since he missed most of the year. I will guarantee you one thing, Brett Hull would NEVER have made those transactions. I know that the mood and attitude of the team is much more upbeat and they are playing like a team that cares since the changes. Granted, this euphoria will probably not last forever or until they have to play the Wings, but it is nice right now to see the guys happy and playing well. The only difference between this team and the one that lost to LA, San Jose and Phoenix is the change in leadership. DA sent Conner and Loui back to Iowa, WRONG, not good for the team. Brett brought them back. Joel was also sent down and has not been brought back but I feel a trade brewing possibly.
As for your comments: He traded two of the best players the Stars ever had and they promptly went on to win the CUP. The UFA signings may not have cost money but they were a waste of space and time at a time when we were promised a scorer but got nothing even close to that. As far as a dramatic effect on the team, when the C was taken away from Modano and the manner in which it was done had a very dramatic effect on the team and to Mike. Granted Mike was not really captain material but DA should have made Brenden a co-
2003 - 111 points, 2nd in the League
2004 - 97 points, 11th in the League
2006 - 112 points, 3rd in the League
2007 - 107 points, 6th in the League
He made the post-season every year.
I really think that this argument is finally over. The team's performance speaks volumes.
I beg of you, please stop mentioning Fridge and Stefan - meaningless acquisitions. Yet you feel so disgraced/angry/disrespected. You must come to the understanding that these minor signings, just like yesterday's trade, have LITTLE consequence.
Think you really should relax and let the man be. While conservative, he did give the team the opportunity to compete each and every season.
Last edited by HermanZeGerman on November 20th at 10:42 AM.
And, if DA had stayed here how many points would you guess the team would have this year? What I said about your "Fridge" and Stefan was that they were both a waste of space on the team that could be taken up by someone that could actually take a punch or get the puck in the net while right on top of the net with no goalie in the net. I am through with this conversation. It was way past time for DA to go, and Lites too. There is at least one player on the team that I would like to see gone but I doubt that will happen. I would a whole lot rather bring some of the guys up from Iowa (they don't cost much) and give them the chance to play than bring in has-beens and rehab players. That was something DA didn't want to do. Krys Barch and Steve Ott can take and give punches just fine and Otter is beginning to score again. Smitty was great in goal and I hope he will now get more opportunity to play. The team seems to have more spark about them and they appear happier as well. Several of them are good friends with Hull and I believe that he and Les will make this team go a lot further than Armstrong would have. Suffice it to say that DA is gone, should have been gone last year and the team is going to be just fine, in fact better. You just go ahead and sing his praises and follow whatever team he goes to work for and I will continue to support the Stars. Be sure to watch Todd too and see how long it is before he in incapacitated and has to retire. In my opinion this subject is CLOSED.
I'm having a real hard time following your argument. Are you claiming that the Stars are a better team ("happier and more spark") by making ZERO changes on the ice or the bench? That is how I read your argument. And the most ridiculous thing about that argument is that this is a team that was the product of Armstrong.
What do you think about Darryl Sutter's job as GM this summer? How does that compare to the tenure of Armstrong?
And finally, you state that Steve Ott is beginning to score "again". By using the word "again" you infer that he once scored and is returning to that performance. Let me tell you something: Steve Ott has never been confused with a goal scorer. He has scored 12 goals in 214 NHL appearances which means he finds the back of the net approximately once every 20 games, or 4 times a year. I don't think you can claim he is starting to score AGAIN. I would consider that a specious statement.
O.K., do I need to put this in BIG LETTERS so you can read it? I am not going to make you see the light and you certainly will not be objective about this change. DA WAS NOT GOOD FOR THE TEAM. LITES WAS NOT GOOD FOR THE ORGANIZATION. TODD IS GONE SO OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE BESIDES ME THOUGHT HE WAS A BAD CHOICE AND NOT WHAT WE NEEDED. AS FOR OTT, ANY SCORE IS A GOOD SCORE AND IF YOU AREN'T SCORING THEN IT'S A GOOD SIGN WHEN YOU DO. OTT IS AN AGITATOR AND FIGHTER AND IS IN MUCH BETTER HEALTH, MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY, THAN TODD. ON THIS TEAM TODD WAS NEITHER AN EFFECTIVE FIGHTER OR SCORER. BARCH IS IN BETTER SHAPE THAN TODD. WE DID NOT NEED A WASTE OF MAN SPACE AND TODD IS GONE. The team DID NOT make zero changes. DA sent Chris and Loui and Joel back to Iowa. After DA was FIRED, Chris and Loui are back. Actually, to keep you from arguing, Chris came back right before the FIRING so I'm sure it wasn't DA's idea. I look for Joel to be back or traded, which I think would be a mistake. Maybe DA was good for Marty but he certainly wasn't for the rest of the team. SUBJECT CLOSED, END OF STORY, FINISH, GONE, BYE-BYE, NO MORE. DA's gone and that is a VERY GOOD THING! NO MORE OF HIS INEPT DEALS!!!!!!!!!! IT IS OVER, ACCEPT IT.
If Armstrong was so bad for the team, why did they have the point totals that they had during his tenure? Why was it that they made the post season each and every year during his reign?
While he may never have been regarded as the best, he wasn't nearly as awful as you think. Look at the reality of the situation and realize that the Stars were a rather successful club while Armstrong was at the helm.
As for Ott, you are now changing your argument. There is nothing wrong with that, but some identification of that would be appreciated. After all, he is not scoring “AGAIN.”
As for Ott vs. Fridge, why do you insist on even comparing the two? Ott is a first round draft pick. Fridge is a seventh round draft pick. Additionally, Ott is younger and is more of a scrapper than a pure goon which is what Fridge is. They don’t share the same role on the team, so why the constant banter?
As for chaning AHL sweaters, that really isn't much of a change, is it? Are you under the impression it is and those are the apposite reasons why the team is winning? If so, good luck. One more thing, isn't Loui an Armstrong draft selection?
Last edited by HermanZeGerman on November 23rd at 8:10 AM.
Here' the bottom line: Perhaps it was Armstrong's time to go. No one can fault the Stars from releasing him from his obligations. Perhaps he was unable to get the team where ownership wanted. However, and this is very important so pay attention, he was a very respectable manager. That fact is proven in the performance of his club. Look at the point totals each year. Look at the fact that he got that team into the post season every year. Look at the fact that he attempted to upgrade his club at the deadline the past two years with solid players. While you clearly have no love lost for the man, why don't you give it a rest and let the man be. He wasn't a bad GM and that is where your perspective misses out on reality.
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
