It figures; I take a short sabbatical and a weird signing occurs.
For those who missed it, unrestricted free agent center Jeremy Roenick was able to forestall retirement by signing a one-year contract with the San Jose Sharks.
This is a weird one by Sharks GM Doug Wilson, who made all the right moves this summer by re-signing Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Milan Michalek and in June resolving both his goaltending controversy and dumping a headache by trading goalie Vesa Toskala and troubled forward Mark Bell to Toronto for draft picks.
The reasons given for this signing are Roenick’s experience and leadership, his former connection with Wilson during their playing days in Chicago, and the possibility he could bounce back into perhaps a 20-goal scorer on a deeper team after two lousy seasons with weaker clubs in Los Angeles and Phoenix.
“JR” can certainly be counted on to be vocal, particularly if he or the team struggles, but he no longer has the talent to back up his words as he used to.
Sure, it’s possible Roenick might regain at least some of his scoring form with the talented Sharks, but if I’m a Sharks fan I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
Don’t read this as an “anti-Roenick” diatribe. I’ve always found “JR Superstar” to be as fast with a quip as he was with his shot, considering him one of the most entertaining players in the league.
But let’s face facts here, gang, Roenick’s game was in decline even prior to the lockout. He followed up a 76 point season in 2000-01 with seasons of 67, 59 and 47 points in the three seasons prior to the lockout (the last in 62 games) on a talented Philadelphia Flyers club.
He managed a “last hurrah” in the 2004 playoffs with 13 points in 18 games playing some of the best hockey of his career.
Since the lockout, however, the slide not only continued, it worsened, netting only 22 points in 58 games with the Kings in 2005-06 and 28 points in 70 games with the Coyotes.
Roenick is willing but it’s obvious that at 37 he can no longer play at the high level that was once his hallmark. His best shots now come from the lip, not his stick.
For Wilson, at best this signing could provide his team with vocal leadership and perhaps a decent third line center. At worse, this signing provides the Sharks with a vocal benchwarmer.
OK, when the Sharks re-signed Marleau, I posted a comment that we needed a vocal leader to help tutor Captain Patrick. Well, we got JR? I am keeping my stinking mouth shut from now on, and not posting any more thoughts. Geez, JR? Not sure where he plays or where he fits. At least the Sharks beat writers will have someone to get good quotes from
1) As we wrote on another blog yesterday: This is a real head scratcher. Wasn't Wilson watching the same guy the rest of us were? JR is DONE with a capital D!
2) Perhaps their past relationship played a role, but a good GM shouldn't let sentimentality get in the way for sound personnel decisions.
3) In our opinion Roenick is a detriment, and an overall negative impact on a young impressionable Shark team.
4) We posted the contrasts between Roenick and Turgeon: http://newfaux.blogspot.com/2007/09 /contrasts.html#links
Last edited by fauxrumors5 on September 5th at 6:20 AM.
I am gonna go out on a limb here, But there is probally some secret deal that will allow JR to get to 500 goals and then he will retire, what is he like 5 short?
coyoteslover - My thoughts exactly. I can't see him lasting the year or if he does getting any significant ice time. A couple of shifts with Jumbo Joe on the PP against a weak team or two will get him to 500 and give him something to brag about. This way when he tells everyone he is God's gift to hockey no one can throw not making it to 500 goals in his face.
This one is a real noodle scratcher. Any way you look at it there is no logical reason to sign Roenick . There are plenty of cheap 500K forwards that will do the same job as Roenick. JR will also be taking a roster spot away from a youngster, and he is not a natural leader. I fear for sharks fans because his whining and moaning may be a detriment to his new team. Poor Ron Wilson, he is now in a tough spot. He either has to play JR or cut him. You can't have a player like that as a healthy scratch, Roenick's ego won't allow it. As for the JR side of things, there is only one logical reason to come back, 500 goals. But in this day and age, 500 by no means equals entry to the hall of fame and even if JR does reach the milestone I don't see him getting in. If he plays the season he will probably get something like 10-15 for 25 points and will just further tarnish his reputation.
I think coyoteslover hit it right on the head. Say what you will about JR, but he deserves to hit 500 goals before he retires. As much trouble as he has stirred up in the past, he was one of the dominant players of his time and deserves to go out the way he wants to. My question is could this be San Jose's way of seeing if JR has what it takes to coach. I can't see him getting significant ice time, so it may be to see how well he interacts with and mentors the younger guys. I foresee him as an assistant coach at the AHL level before the year is done.
1) Sorry Flyer, JR 'deserves' nothing! He had a nice carear that in reality ended in his final year in Philly. Lets keep this in perspective He had 3 realy good years of 50 goals/100+ points, but those are 15 years ago when everyone scored.
2) The last 2 years he's been an empty uniform taking home an undeserved pay cheque. He should have retired after the lockout. He clearly has nothing left.
If JR can check his ego at the door (and that's a big "if"), he will be a solid addition to the Sharks third line. He doesn't need to put points on the board to prove his value if he can play a tight defensive game, and Roenick may give the Sharks a bit of confidence when they hit adversity.
Is he the missing ingredient for a Stanley Cup run? Likely not. But on a team lacking in veteran leadership, he's an affordable alternative, and may very well exceed my expectations.
Being a shark fan since day one, the one thing this team has missed for a long time was an A-kicker. Lets face it the sharks have been push overs for a while, and when they had a tough guy they hardly could play hockey. Now a 37 year old JR doesn't fit that roll but it is better then what we have. What they really needed was to get ryan smith in the off season. There arn't too many players like that in the leage let alone signable.
If JR doen't have any cemistry with the top lines on the power play then he might not finish the season. If he has any scoring tough left joe or patty will find him for 15-25 goals most on the power play. Let not forget that they got him for 500k this year. #### they pay Sharkie the mascot that amount.
Last edited by Mpags on September 5th at 10:01 AM.
I've never been a fan of JR. Seems like I remember him more for his verbal jabs than his playing. The guy that led the Hawks in the late eighties/early nineties might as well be a whole different guy....
I don't really see much use for him at this point with his advancing age and deteriorating skills. (As the Kings found out two seasons ago)
Brett Hull gave it one more shot and quickly admitted he didn't have it anymore.. I sure hope JR has the same realization sooner rather than later.
I like Roenick from his days as a Blackhawk, skating with the likes of Tony Amonte, Chris Chelios and Ed Belfour. Man, what a turn that bunch took. Belfour can't get a contract in the league (though look at his age), Amonte's ripped on more often than not, and JR's labelled as a big mouth with a tiny stick. Ouch. Oh, and then there's the Ironman, Chris "Ageless" Chelios.
I don't know. He can be the potential spark plug, but he can also be the potential broken leg on the centipede.
That sums it all up for Roenick, and it is time for him to hang up the skates... What good did this do for the Sharks? Not a dam bit of good, they would have been better off going out and finding a scraper that wants to get in the game and prove himself... I enjoyed watching Roenick play but you need to know when to give it up, and I do not think that he should just stay around to score 500 goals what does that prove...
Kings Fan,
Brett Hull, giving it one last shot...
Jeremy Roenick, giving it one last shot...
Hmmmm...
I would buy the ticket to see Hull call it quits, I can say that I would not buy the ticket to see Roenick's shot a 500 goals and then quit... Besides what's the big deal about 500 goals anymore...
Last edited by Theduck on September 5th at 11:51 AM.
Roenick did say towards the end of last season that he felt the best he had felt all year and because of how his play improved at the end of the year he was considering returning. This may be a real steal for the Sharks.
While I doubt that Roenick can play a full season it wouldn't be that surprising if he played well enough to pace about 20 goals and 20 to 30 assists. And if the Sharks get that he's a bargain at $500k not to mention his intangibles are likely worth $ 500k. It's a risk a cup contender can afford to take to go to another level. I like it. As far as those who think Roenick will be a distraction vocally, I don't think so. I think this guy just wants to win badly. More than some young player would and you'll take the chance that desire adds up to something good.
All this talk about JR going after #500.....Like most have pointed out, 500 goals isn't that big of a deal anymore, and why the hec would he do it with San Jose??? I know he has the past with Willson, but thats the only tie. If he would have signed on with the Black Hawks and got his 500 and ended it where it all began, that would be a decent story, but who wants to remember him scoring his final goal in a jersey he wore for a month and a half????
I do think he could be a posative role model though, everyone is harping on him for talking a lot, well maybe they need that, they seem like a quiet bunch who needs someone to get there #### moving.
Remember the coments made between Roy and Roenick? Those were priceless.....
Alamo, I posted a comment about this signing and simply stated JR runs the risk of creating friction in that locker room. He no longer has the skill to back up his mouth; in fact, I don't think he ever did - but he will come across as a hypercritic to his teammates when he tries to get on guys who may not be playing to their potential. I see the Sharks parting ways with him during the season - but will ask him to retire rather than release him out of respect. Then Jeremy will hold a press conference and say while his heart is still willing, his body will no longer allow him to play at the level he once did so it's time to go.
Duck - My point was that Brett Hull played the first 5 games for Phoenix in the 05-06 season (after the lockout) and called it a career. Fortunately for him he had already won cups and had largely nothing else to prove.
Roenick clearly believes he has enough to get to the 500 goal plateau, and I wouldn't be a least bit surprised if he is eyeing the #2 all time goals spot currently occupied by the retired Joey Mullen (507)
But weird things happen in sports all the time and perhaps JR could have enough of a resurgence to matter in the Sharks' season.
Its funny to think that I am trying to justify this signing by saying its only $500K. Ans didn't Spector just post something about a possible labor unrest. Oh well. I guess time will tell. With the Sharks bringing back guys like Ricci and Marchment to work in the front office, and now bringing JR,maybe there is a conscience effort to not be so "west coast low key". And I also guess that means Mark Smith is not going to get signed.
I would have almost rather saw the Sharks sign Hull than JR. Imagine Jumbo Joe feeding Hull the puck?
King, Do you think Roenick has a shot at Mullen? Even with a team as talented as the Sharks, and his current 495 goals, I don't think he's talented enough to get 12 more - and I believe he will be a healthy scratch during games once the Sharks begin to see that Roenick can no longer compete at this level anymore.
I didn't know about those in office transactions, Alamo. Thanks for that update.
Hey, Alamo, King, man, I am really searching for some Hockey talk in these blogs. Hope you guys are around to help get things moving. LetsGoBuffalo disapeared.
Last edited by broblog on September 5th at 2:42 PM.
When I saw this on the news yesterday morning my initial reaction was "whaa... it sooo isn't april fools day." All I could do is laugh. The Sharks don't need a center, they don't need a sel####estructive mouth piece, and they don't need a hasbeen running around looking for five more goals before retirement.
When I saw this on the news yesterday morning my initial reaction was "whaa... it sooo isn't april fools day." All I could do is laugh. The Sharks don't need a center, they don't need a sel####estructive mouth piece, and they don't need a hasbeen running around looking for five more goals before retirement.
I know what you were trying to say with the Hull, Roenick thing but come on if Roenick was going for let us say Getzky or Hulls record then maybe you sign him...
I like the fact that you compared Roenick to Mullen that is more like it... Mullen was a consistent player he was traded from the Blues to Calgary in the early or mid 80's and finished his career as a pen-gwins and he only had 502 all time goals so I guess Roenick may have a shot at him...
Oh buy the way the Gordie would not be happy with you at all... Mullen #2 All Time... LOL, that was pretty good...
Last edited by Theduck on September 5th at 5:17 PM.
gotcha duck - I think he definitely wants to overtake Mullen. And yes I meant all time among US players of course... not to dis the Gord-meister!
One other thing to consider is the fact that Mike Modano has something like 510 career goals (#1 among US players) Perhaps JR is foolish enough to think he can catch Mike especially if he goes down injured or something....
Gawd. Thadd hit it on the head. The Sharks sure don't need another center (they have six, even without JR or Mark Smith, of eleven signed forwards), especially an over the hill loudmouth. They dump Mark Smith (who may be short of talent but is big of heart) for JR? Come on..... JR never played for the Sharks, who sell out every game anyways, so no one cares in SJ if he hits 500 (won't sell any more tickets). If they want him in the front office, get him a desk.....
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that JR thinks he can pass Mullen. On the PP with Thornton a friggin' tree stump could net 12+ goals! Remember his comments about concidering himself soley responsible for U.S. Hockey success, maybe he plans to pull a Tanya Harding job on Modano to reach the #1 spot!!
If i were the ducks, what would I with sellane and neds.
My take, if they cannot deciede by now, I woul dCUT them, have a little respect for your team so they can plan...This is absolutley ridiculas of both of them.
I WOUDL CUT THE BOTH and move on!
This is still a business and has to be run somewhat like that. You have to be able to plan for the future, here, now after all this time, there are no UFA's that thye could sign....
I would be P*I*S*S*E*D if I had anything to do was a ducks teammate or management
There's also this whole Cup thing to consider, if Roenick wants to get to 500 goals, he could have signed with any team. San Jose is one of those teams with a legitimate shot at the title.
I don't think he wants to go retire as the American version of Marcel Dionne or Gilbert Perreault who never won Cups (Dionne never even made it to the finals).
Senorsoupe, sorry but I haven't yet seen a player make it to 500 goals and not make it into the Hall, and that won't happen in this case either.
Last edited by Cup_Junkie on September 6th at 7:42 AM.
To get his name on the Stanley Cup, the Sharks have to win the Cup (naturally) and Roenick has to either a) play 41 or more Regular Season games with the Sharks or b) play one game with the Sharks in the Finals. He doesn't need to be on the Sharks active roster to qualify, but he would need to be accounted for somewhere within their system (i.e. injured reserve, minors, etc.)
I read a story on this story at NHL.com, and is said that Roenick didn't sign just to get to 500 goals. He said he wanted a chance for the Cup one last time. He also said that he wasn't going to be vocal, he justs wants to be one of the guys in the locker room. I don't no if he will live up to that, but if he does, I don't think he'll hurt the team.
I can't believe the Sharks did this! A few weeks ago I was in Detroit at the airport and had a chance to hang out and talk with Doug Wilson who was returning from John Ferguson's funeral to San Jose. Doug was great....he laughed when I asked about Sheldon Souray. His comment was "We didn't get him because we've seen him play...." Now, to turn around and pick up JR....hmmmmm Yet, as third line center, a place where the Sharks get little scoring in the playoffs...I know that's their checking line, but if the Sharks nurse him along enough to have some gas for the playoffs.... Wilson's done a lot of things right. This move is not about 500 goals or passing Mullen. This move is about taking a chance that JR's got something left in the tank for the Cup....
Wait a minute, you mean Roenick's been unretired for about two days and he's already making comments to a paper? Holy heavens, Batman! That's an absolute stunner. Roenick's motivation for signing with the Sharks isn't really at issue. Let's see, would you like money to go play for a team that has a very real shot at taking home the Cup? We'll pay you hundreds of thousands, by the way, and since you've got very little left in the tank, you can pretty much just coast off your teammates anywho. Yeah, sounds like all the motivation I need. I'm sure JR turned down a very lucrative contract from Versus to share snippets with Brian Engblom to take that deal. I certainly don't share coffee and cheesecake with Doug Wilson, but I'd want to ask him a follow-up: "Did you watch ROENICK play this past season?" I suppose that's why I don't talk to them.
Honestly, they should just pay him more to be a talking head on a network show. You'd make that money back in microseconds as it would take him what? an hour to make some completely bizarre and hilarious comment. He does it anyway, and he's "not even retired" yet. The only qualification you really need to be a hockey commentator is to have played anyway, so I'm stunned that they didn't match this offer. I'd much rather watch him in the studio than on the ice. That time has passed.
'I'd want to ask him a follow-up: "Did you watch ROENICK play this past season?"'
Are you really comparing Roenick's half a million to the 6+million it would have cost to land Souray?
Frankly, I bet there are a ton of teams who would have taken Roenick on for that money.
And honestly? I think he has a very good chance at getting 8 goals this year to pass Joe Mullen if he's healthy enough to play 60 games or more. Definitely. Playing on that team he could accidentally score 8 goals.
There clearly weren't many teams willing to take on Roenick for that or any other money. Unless of course his failure to sign a contract until spontaneously deciding not to retire after all in September was due to him sifting through all those offers.
He certainly has a chance to score eight, just as Georges Laraque, Martin Brodeur, and anyone else in the league has a chance to. I just don't think it's likely. And to answer your question, my comparison has nothing to do with the salary being paid. It's that a scoffing answer of "oh, he wasn't up to our standards" strikes me as interesting when you're investing in a guy who is clearly past his prime. You could have been a casual fan browsing the box scores last year and seen that JR has unfortunately become all mouth and no action.
How do you know that there weren't a bunch of teams who weren't just waiting for him to make a decision? How do you know that he HASN'T had offers from teams he didn't want to play for. You're kidding yourself if you think there isn't a team in the league other than SJ that would happily have him for half a mil. Is it that far off to think that he wants a chance at a cup? If it was just for the 500th goal or the 503rd goal, he could have made a deal with Chicago to finish his career there.
And whatever you meant by your comment, there's a huge difference between giving $6M to someone who doesn't fit your system (and is slow and is a defensive liability), and giving $500K to someone who can be a leader on the bench and help out sometimes.
Hell, the guy got 11 goals in 70 games last year on a garbage team and 9 goals in 58 games on a team that wasn't very good the year before. Is it really a stretch to see him getting 8 goals on the Sharks if he's healthy?
I don't know it, I'm surmising. Even if there was a ton of interest in JR and he had to beat the offers off with a stick, it doesn't mean it's a smart move to take the spot away from a young guy who can play for equal money and perform better. And I am betting there wasn't. I think JR got lucky that his big mouth has earned him some influential friends. The fact that he wasn't retired was as surprising as the fact that it was the Sharks (and not a team like Chicago) who decided to give him the roster spot.
Again, I personally don't think it's likely. He played major minutes on the teams you mentioned, and last year being on a bad team has nothing to do with your ice time or ability to score goals on said bad team. His skills have eroded and it was clear at the deadline, when there was no interest. Oh, well, I guess there MIGHT have been interest, and just nobody did anything about all of that interest. You I'm sure recall JR tried to talk himself into a roster spot then as well, saying he would be of benefit to a team that was in Cup contention. You know, the nice way of saying, please?
You are fully entitled to your estimation of what JR may do. But I maintain I'm amazed the Sharks are wasting their time with a guy who's been a PR nightmare of late and has eroded to the point of banality. I started off saying hey, it's a cheap signing, so there's that..but I stand by my assertion that I don't think he's likely to score those eight and stands a far better chance of disrupting the otherwise good-looking chemistry in SJ.
Well, as it stands right now, he's the lowest paid player on the team (according to nhlnumbers.com) and makes up for about 1.5% of their salary, so even if he somehow manages to be a monumental distraction, they bench him and eat $500K. Oh no! What a horrible signing!
If his playing "erodes" more this year and he only gets 20 points in, say, 60 games, that's STILL 20 points you're getting and only paying $500K. I still don't see why this is a bad signing.
Whatever, I don't even care about this, I don't know why I'm arguing it...
Then we don't need to continue the argument. I like to think of it as more of a discussion anyway. I think you could get more production out of a younger player and get them some experience, and I think that makes sense. I also think at this point you lose more than you gain out of having him in your locker room. I could be 100% wrong, and hopefully he'll put those six minutes a night and fifth power play shift to good use. I didn't say it was a horrible signing, just a meaningless one.
Obvoiusly there were other teams interested in Roenick, as I said earlier his decision to go with the Sharks is based on their valid shot at the Cup. No league minimum signing can be considered bad since it adds depth and leaves enough cap-space to bring up those younger players he is apparently stealing a job from.
I see him playing the year and the retiring to either a front-office job in SJ or going back to the announcers booth.
I think it's a similar scenario in MTL with Breeze-by, only we're paying 200k more.
MPH- The Sharks would be stupid to call up another young player as their whole team is young. Roenick is the veteran leadership they need for the many young players already in the locker room.
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
