The hockey world will have to wait a little while for the Anaheim Ducks decision on Dustin Penner's offer sheet.
Ducks GM Brian Burke addressed the situation on Friday, July 27th, telling the Canadian Press that he expects to meet with Ducks ownership on Sunday to discuss their options. Burke was being inducted into the British Columbia Hockey Hall of Fame, which would explain why he didn't immediately respond to the offer sheet on Thursday.
The Edmonton Oilers on Thursday tendered a five-year, $21.5 million contract to Penner. The Ducks have one week to match the offer or lose Penner to the Oilers, receiving the Oilers 2008 first, second and third round picks.
As expected, Burke had some choice words for Oilers GM Kevin Lowe, who's also considered one of Burke's good friends. As per Canadian Press:
"I have no problem with offer sheets, they are
part of the CBA," Burke said on a conference call. "I think it's a tool
certainly a team is entitled to use. My issue here is this is the
second time this year in my opinion Edmonton have offered a grossly
inflated salary for a player, and it impacts on all 30 teams and I
think it's an act of desperation by a general manager who is fighting
to keep his job."
The way it all came down also bothered Burke.
"I was not notified of this until an agent faxed it into us," he
said. "I thought Kevin would have called me and told me it was coming.
I thought that was gutless."
Burke was also disappointed with the timing of
it _ Burke was entering the B.C. Hockey Hall of Fame in Penticton,
B.C., on Friday night.
"Kevin Lowe has been in Penticton this week," Burke said. "Tonight
is the induction ceremony for the B.C. Hockey Hall of Fame and I
certainly think this could have waited until Monday. I don't think it
shows a lot of respect for the B.C Hockey Hall of Fame.
"I think it's a classless move timing-wise."
Sabres GM Darcy Regier, who matched an earlier offer sheet from the Oilers for forward Thomas Vanek, also chimed in:
"I still don't believe that this will be an
effective way to acquire players," Regier told The Canadian Press on
Friday. "There will be circumstances where the odd offer sheet will not
be matched but I think it'll be driven because of cap issues.
"But generally, and I may end up being wrong, but I'm in the camp where I don't thinks this is going to work."
Well, boo-hoo-hoo.
Forgive me if I don't have any sympathy for either Regier or Burke.
As I noted in my recent Foxsports.com article, Burke had plenty of warning that Lowe was trolling the offer sheet waters when the Oilers GM made his seven-year, $50 million pitch for Vanek. He could've re-signed Penner to a more affordable $2-$2.5 million per season contract (comparable to former Duck Joffrey Lupul), or taken Penner to arbitration thus making him ineligible to receive an offer sheet.
But Burke didn't do those things, so he's got no right to huff and puff about it. I think he's just ticked because it was his buddy Lowe who did this. Burke's one of the better GMs in the league but this time he got caught napping.
As for Regier, there was widespread speculation back in May that Vanek could be a target for an offer sheet, but he didn't use that time to re-sign Vanek to keep him off the market. Rather than paying the talented forward a more affordable salary, say, comparable to Carolina's Eric Staal, Regier is now paying Vanek over $7 million per season for the next seven year.
Yes, Lowe's offer sheet efforts will drive up the salaries of comparables, but it's his right to do so under the current collective bargaining agreement.
You know, the "owners" CBA? The one that guys like Burke and Regier claimed in 2005 would make it possible for their respective teams to be competitive.
As Chrissie Hynde once sang: "It is time for you to stop all of your sobbing".
Does anybody else think that Regier is not that great o####M?
He's gotten a lot of media attention for building a team perfectly suited to the 'new NHL'. However it seems his policy of not negotiating salaries during the season has helped to dismantle that great roster, and helped inflate the value of Vanek.
I think the comments are spot on about rival GMs being asleep at the wheel, and the majority of what Burke said did sound su####iously like sobbing. I suppose he's a fan of the old boy network where your "friends" don't do things that adversely affect your team. It's called competition, guys. And Burke especially should realize he's going to be wearing a target after winning the cup. Whether you're actually after Penner, or whether you're setting up a run at Getzlaf and Perry, when you win the biggest prize in sports you're going to have rivals looking to pick guys off your roster.
I do think the one comment that resounded with me is Lowe acting with desperation, because I've been saying that here since at the very least the Nylander move. At this point, he should act with desperation, because otherwise he's going to be unemployed. If you don't think he's worth that much coin, take the picks, continue to draft well, and laugh all the way to the Cup. One player does not a roster make. If anyone believes that Lowe's first choices are exactly what he ended up with this season, more power to them. I sure don't. I will give him credit for trying to do whatever he can do to bring some names in to make his team better, but I personally don't think it's enough anyway. Paying Penner now is going to be tough unless you're planning on shipping some salary out, and everyone is going to know that's what you want to do. This, as opposed to the Vanek, was a very smart choice of player, team, and situation to make an offer on. (con't)
Bettman called Burke a "great GM" after the Cup win, and he has been so far in my view. He did a really nice job north of the border and obviously gets kudos for last year. He's good enough to get where he needs to go without worrying about what the other guy is doing. And Lowe, of course, is guilty of the same sin. Complaining about other teams and other situations instead of buckling up and getting it done. The difference, of course, is that Burke has a day with the Cup and Lowe doesn't. If anyone is truly angered by Lowe or his actions, I wouldn't worry..the climate is such in Edmonton that he'll be gone if the team underachieves this year, as he should be. Souray and Pitkanen (and Penner potentially) will make you better, but it's not going to be a panacea for the Oil. As for Regier, he really has no business even opening his mouth on this issue. This was the CBA you rooted for and now it's being used against you. Do your job and make your team better.
Hey, if Burke lets Penner walk, he could always look at it this way: Anaheim picked up a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick for an undrafted free agent...
I think it's funny that Burke's response is even getting this much attention. Did anyone expect him not to #### about it? If Burke offered Penner a significant raise and Penner countered with a long-term deal with a significant pay CUT, Burke would find something to complain about.
While I don't agree with the size of the contract, I hope that Burke and Bobby Clarke get offer-sheeted on all their RFAs every year, just to screw them over.
I don't think you have to worry about Clarke getting offer-sheeted, as he no longer has a general manager post. It's kind of a tough sell on getting a new one when you've basically told the world you took the last ten to twelve months of your previous stewardship off.
According to the CBA, teams must use their own draft picks as compensation for an RFA. Can someone please explain to me how Edmonton can make this offer for Pennner when they DO NOT own their second round draft pick in 2008, as they traded it to the Islanders on July 5/07 for Allan Rourke and as well as re-acquiring their own 2008 third round pick???? Thx
Ok what did i miss. Oh yeah Wah wah wah. Ah the head duck ruffled his feathers. How could he do this to me. wah wah wah.
Kevin Lowe's job is safe for atleast this season and the next one. After that if we don't get back to the playoffs then color him gone. Until then let's see what other moves he can put on a sleepy GM at the wheel. I love it
I think it's safe to say the Oilers were planning to go the way of the RFA Offer sheet quite some time ago. Not an act of desperation. I told you well OILED plan. BRILLIANT KEVIN JUST BRILLIANT.
I don't think it's safe to say that at all, oil, so I respectfully disagree. Unless the plan included being spurned by the top free agents and therefore moving to the next tactic, which involved signing Vanek to an offer sheet he knew Regier would match, etc etc. This particular move is a good one strategically, and I give Lowe credit for that, but he'd have to be a psychic who enjoys rejection to have this all planned from the start. Was the public grumpiness and threatened legal action against the Nylander camp part of the master plan too?
I'm not so sure i would have thought Buffalo would match my offer. I don't think once i had Nylander agree to a deal i would have expected him to back out, But my idea of recruiting through RFA or Arbitration walk aways should still work. Who's next on our List boys. OK we'll try for Penner. If that doesn't work and Burkie matches. Who's third down. Has Tampa got back to us yet, Have we heard from Ottawa. Come on guys i want results. Mac what's left on the radar. There you go a look behind the scenes of the Edmonton Oilers. Oh by the way Charlie Huddy's scouting mission have all been signed.
Last edited by oilcountryredneck on July 28th at 11:54 AM.
Why on earth should Lowe have waited to sign Penner to an offer sheet until after Burke's induction into the BC HOF? And why does Burke expect for Lowe to call him?
Burke: Hello...
Lowe: Hi Brian, this is Kevin Lowe. Congratulations on your induction into the BC HOF. How was the ceremony?
B: Oh, hi Kevin. Yeah, it was great. Getting inducted into any hall of fame is pretty terrific. You should try it sometime. Ha, ha.
L: Yeah. That's hilarious. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that out of respect to you and the Mighty Ducks organization that I've decided to sign Dustin Penner to an offer sheet. But I decided to wait until after the ceremony to do so.
B: You did what? (pause) For how much?
L: 5 years, $21.5 million.
B: Really? (pause for laughter) Kevin, I’m so happy you decided to call me, that really shows “guts” on your part and I really appreciate your waiting until after my induction ceremony to sign Penner. You’ve still #### me over, but at least you’re still a great guy.
L: Burkey, I just did what I had to in order to survive. Besides, I didn’t screw you over as much as I’m screwing over the Mighty Ducks.
B: Kevin, we’re just the Ducks now. We’re no longer “Mighty”.
I have to against Burke on this one. He dropped the ball. If he badly wanted Penner back he should've done something to prevent this situation. IF he would've taken Penner to arbitration it would've been for a lot less than 4.3 million. Burke thought he can take his time on this but that didn't go so well now did it? Either way the clear winner in this is Dustin Penner.
actually the winners are the oilers and the Penner camp. I like the phone call kings fan. Like i said the two of them will be sharing wobbly's while they decide on who to invite the 2010 olympic team.
If out of a miraculous manner the ducks do match.Who is next on the list. Fact The Oilers will not stop till they are satisfied.
Last edited by oilcountryredneck on July 28th at 12:34 PM.
I think Stempniak is a much more solid player than Penner and he got what I thought was a good deal from the Blues... 7.5 mil for 3 years
2006-07: Ranked first on the team with 27 goals. Ranked second on the team with 52 points (27g, 25a) Notched a plus-or-even rating in 60 of his 82 games this season. The Blues notched a 12-5-7 record when he scores a goal. Ranked third on the team with 166 shots.
What makes Penner worth more than Stempniak? Kevin Lowe's willingness to pay him that much.
Sure, it's an insane offer, but that's what it takes to pry away an RFA from another team. Lowe wasn't gonna offer less than $1.4 million because he knew that would still give Burke room to match. Not much room, mind you, but enough. Even a $2-$2.5 million offer might still give Burke wiggle room.
No, he offers $4.3 mil per season, knowing that Burke probably won't match that even if he wanted to because that's simply too much for a player of Penner's caliber at this point in his career. That's the only sure way to land him.
I think Burke's gonna let Penner walk, but will let Lowe twist in the wind for a few days first. The more I look at that contract, along with the other potential cap issues and considering Burke's personality and temperament I don't think he'll match.
Oh, and another thing, some folks complain about this driving up salaries. It does drive up those comparable to Penner, but remember, the players salaries remains fixed at 55.5 percent of revenues for next season. Overall, salaries aren't rising, only those to a certain group of players.
The money to pay Penner will be coming out of the pocket of another player, be he an Oiler or a Duck depending on whether or not Burke matches, so it's not a major overall win for the players. Penner's gain is a lesser-talented linemate's loss.
But hey! That's the CBA the owners wanted, one that still ensures top and second tier talent gets lots of money while ensuring lesser talented or fading veterans get less.
I like the latter because I didn't like seeing that group getting overpaid under the previous CBA, but for marginal NHL players, they're gonna carry the freight this time around, and while there's a considerable number of them, they're unlikely to hold much sway over the PA in getting that aspect changed in the next round of labour talks.
I don't see him matching either. And why should he? I realize how it may look to any fan when a GM lets a promising player walk, but Burke's got lots of goodwill built up for winning the Cup. Unlike Lowe, nobody is campaigning to run him out of town on a rail. When we're discussing winners and losers, there's no way to even do anything other than speculate, because Penner is going to have to become one whale of a player to justify that salary. I'd hardly call that winning on day one. Gutsy? Sure. As for Anaheim, they could end up eclipsing that by cashing in those draft picks to potentially land a better player via trade or just drafting one. The losers are easy to peg, though..any fans who thought the "small market" mouths were sincere when they decried the old system and demanded change in order to compete. What a bunch of hogwash.
Do you think some of these offere sheets that we see also has to do with the players lack of loyalty to a team?
If You think back to the 70's it seemed that year in and year out it was the draft that was the big deal; not what team could steal what player in the UFA or with offer sheets...
I just think there was alot less money talk and alot more pride and loyalty to your organization and the willingness to go for a cup back then... It was about winning a cup and working hard to get there...
Getzlaf is one of the best young centers in the NHL. On Edmonton he would be the #1.
I look at it this way. Penner for 3 top picks. That gives the Ducks 7 picks in the top 90 in a very deep draft.
Even with Penner the Oilers will STRUGGLE to win hockey games. THe Avs and Nucks are bonafided playoff teams. The Flams and Wild will be fighting for the 6-8 seed all season.
The Oilers will finish between the 11 and 14 seed.
So Lets review what the Oilers have done this offseason and see if they are better.
The Oilers were poor in net and the blueline last season. The scoring punch from the blue line was ok but they had trouble in there own zone.
So lets go out trade our best stay at home guy and get 2 guys that all all O all the time..
The Oilers will set a franchise record next season for goals given up in a season.
Souray will be a -35.
The Oilers are going to be what they have been for the last 10 years.
A Minor league team that develops young talent for the big NHL clubs.
It will not be long before Penner and Hemsky will leave Edmonton for better playing conditions.
You better hope Robbie Schremp is the second comming of Mark Messier or the Oilers are going to be in a world of hurt.
After all if the get Penner they lose all those picks that could restock there Farmclub.
First of all MPH without a salary cap there is no hockey in Canada anymore. Wake up
Mr duck it is the way of the future. Let's live in the now and forget the past.
Kings fan what are you smoking Hemsky's not a #1 player on another club. Wow
Our goaltending was fine. The defense was decimated do you think before typing. Souray will probably be a minus 7-9 at most. A minor league team that just happened to make it to the cup final. Oh and the farm team will definately challenge for the other cup. Schremp will play in springfield this season they won't have another comrie situation. Your comments make me giggle like a little school girl.
Now for my last comment to you
WHAT HAVE YOUR BELOVED KINGS DONE!!!!!!!! EVER
that would make you all high and mighty.
Please show me.
MR. duck your quite right about the past it was still a game and we will never see hockey like that ever again. When THE KINGS FANS CLUB DECIDED TO CHANGE THE FUTURE OF THE GAME TO WHAT IT IS TODAY. ANY DOUBT THAT WHEN GRETZKY LEFT THE OILERS FOR THE KINGS. THE GAME WAS CHANGED FROM THERE FORWARD. now kings fan answer to that.
Last edited by oilcountryredneck on July 28th at 2:29 PM.
Oil: When exactly did I suggest no salary cap? If you're gonna individually bash everyone you disagree with, at least get your facts straight. I am saying that this "cap" era appears dangerously close to the "uncapped" era. And the fraudulent arguments perpetrated by GMs like yours about how much things needed to change seem to have lost their concerns when it's suited them. That's not an insult, it's a fact. I always find it funny how many people parade principle while it suits them.
I was simply trying to make the point that the stupid GM's of hockey like Lowe have decensitised the hockey player from being a loyal proud hockey player in search of a cup to hungry money mongers... It is no longer about Lord Stanley it is about which GM in desperation makes a stupid offer...
MPH the small market mouths were sincere when they decried the old systemand demanded changein order to compete. what a bunch of hogwash.
I would say the old system did not contain a salary cap which is why i fired out at you.
with the cap every club has the write to spend the same which brings comparity to the league. this is what the small market mouths wanted.
Oil: No doubt, but here's the difference. And you don't have to "read into" the comment, just read it on its face: It isn't just that everything is even that the small markets were looking for, it's that the big markets were taking advantage of the system, etc. Which, by the way, is exactly what this is. There was no way the small markets could compete when people would come in and say, sign their best player to an egregiously high offer sheet in order to steal them away. Sound familiar? I thought as much.
You are right, all offer sheets do is make it ok under the league rules to overpay for players... All while still putting other teams in a financial strain... It is very close to free spending, just worded differently...
ocr: Sorry, but your statement claiming that without a salary cap there'd be no hockey in Canada is simply not true.
The rising Canadian dollar, not the salary cap, is the reason teams like the Oilers, Flames and Senators can now spend with the big boys. When the dollar was worth between 62-72 cents US in the late 90s and earlier in this decade, those teams struggled because of the weak dollar.
If the loonie were still worth 65 cents US as it was five years ago, the Oilers would still be pleading poverty because, cap or no, there's no way they could spend as they have now. Not with their revenue in Canadian dollars but paying their players in US dollar.
I want to compare Perry and Getzlaf to Hemsky and Horcoff who could be Penners line mates. I believe they will be close. Keep in mind Horcoff had a real bad year.
That's certainly how I feel about it. It's not a criticism of any particular offer sheet per se, it's just calling it what it is. And of course during the last CBA negotiation, it was all the greed of the players and the demand for more and more of the revenue pie that drove the owners for the good of the league to just put an end to it and put their foot down. Saying nothing of course of their own greed which caused many of them to sign those aforementioned players to those huge deals to begin with. And does anyone really think the prime time of a player's career equals an owner's tenure with a team? How many times has Bill Wirtz pocketed a profit while his team was horrible? I hope everyone remembers this tactic the next time these owners start their normal woe is me complaints. Last time I checked, not too many of them are operating at a loss. I'll save my sympathy for those more deserving.
Ok spector point well taken. When will the cap be peaked put a ceiling on it. If this keeps going will we see 15/ year. NFL,MLB,NBA kind of money. You can't put 40,000 people into an arena. Ticket prices are already through the roof. The last game i went to was probably 8 yrs ago. Leafs vs Oilers
we got spanked.
Gentlemen my arguments are based on the budget being the same for everyone. IS THERE A NUMBER THAT HAS BEEN AGREED TO AND WHICH YEAR WILL IT BE REACHED.
I will say one thing that has happened which is positive with this CBA, at least thus far: while some teams (Toronto for example) still seem to think that pursuing older guys on the downswing at the expense of young talent is a good idea, many more teams are deciding NOT to match the money for these fallen stars heading to Russia. With no limitation on salary, there is no doubt in my mind that those folks who clearly have lost a step and are overseas or still out there to be had (Amonte leaps to mind) would be signed. The purging of the league of those types was long overdue, and we are seeing some positive signs in that regard at least.
MPH we can find something to agree upon. Although i would like to see Ryan Smyth come back the year before he retires. Tony amonte finish in Chicago, belfour the same. Using as example stars who gave there fans years of service finish there.
Ok fellas if there is no ceiling projected for the salary cap than you are quite right. Why was there a lockout. I thought the cap was to say ok you get to spend this much and that's it. If it continues to rise the system will eventually purge the small market teams anyway. I'll be forced to take up Ballet or professional lawn bowling or something during the winter.
Brett Hull was not fortunate enough to stay with the Blues until the end, but they retired his jersey anyway and had a big ceremony before the wings blues game and even named the street in front of the Scott Trade Center Brett Hull Way... Now that is the way it is supposed to be done...
I would love to go to a game. If i bought tickets and wanted good seats. It would cost my family close to a thousand dollars for one night of entertainment.
ocr: The stronger Canadian dollar combined with higher ticket prices and the PA exercising its right under the CBA to bump up the cap by five percent accounted for this coming season's $50.3 million cap.
The Canadian dollar is expected to remain between 90-95 cents US over the course of next season (some economists have predicted it could be on par with the American dollar by year's end, but of course that depends on a lot of economic factors that I won't go into here) so that'll keep revenues up.
Ten teams, including Montreal and Toronto, Canada's biggest hockey markets, have announced ticket price hikes for next season. The NY Rangers, playing in the biggest sports market in America, are also apparently raising their prices, as are the San Jose Sharks and resurgent Pittsburgh Penguins. Those hikes will also ensure more revenue for the league next season.
Factor in Hockey Night in Canada's new contract with the league at $100 million per season for the next five seasons (a 40 million per season increase over the previous deal), and it's quite possible the cap could hit $53 million for 2008-09. And if the players decide to bump it again, $55 million.
The projections I've heard is it could hit $60 million by 2010-11. We'll see if it does, but it certainly appears well on the way there.
With the Blues new ownership they have cut prices a bit and put together some game package deals,family package deals etc, that are nice...
I do not have full season tickets I have a 10 game package which is nice... Because my kids go more than I do... However we went to the Canadiens/Blues game last season and that was not one of my 10 and it cost me with dinner for my sons and seats was $750.00 so I can sympathise...
Whoa, ok, let's not say things that we know to be completely untrue. Who's the amazing talent that Souray's going to be linemates with who will carry his sorry as in Edmonton's end? They traded away their best stay at home defenseman for a guy who's defense is almost as bad as Souray's.
This guy is a career -27 and you honestly think somehow he's going to magically become a great defensive defenceman at the age of 31? Give me a break, dude.
My prediction? Burke doesn't match, Anaheim drafts some amazing talent in a ridiculously deep draft year with their overflow of picks, then in a handful of years, when those players are lighting up the stats lists, the new GM of the Kitchen/Waterloo Oilers offers an inflated offer sheet to one of them and longtime TSN analyst (since he was canned by the then-Edmonton Oilers early in the 08-09 season) Kevin Lowe tells Darren Dutchyshen that "this kid is a great pickup and had I not let go of all our picks in the '08 draft, I would have taken him and maybe still be working in professional hockey to this day" before pulling a .357 magnum out of a manilla envelope, sticking it in his mouth and spraying the brand-new Super-HD TSN set with his grey matter.
Spector: it will kill the canadian market eventually then. I don't think my estimation of 1000.00 for a family of five is that far off. We live 1.5 hrs either way to Edmonton and Calgary
game starts 7:30 have to feed the family, fuel to get there. snacks at the game, a few souveniers, a program and of course the tickets. How do they figure the general public can afford to pay this.
Oh, and OCR, you're mistaken. The budget for every team is NOT the same. The Red Wings's budget is a good deal higher than a lot of teams. The only things that are the same for every team are the lowest salary they can have and the highest they can have. There's a LOT of difference between the approx $35M basement and the $50M ceiling.
Daniq as far as i know Sheldon Souray had one season which he had a bad +/-. I think i heard that. Where do you get information that claims he's a career -27.
No Burke won't match your right Penner will be an Oiler we need him and he will fit nicely.
You will have to try harder than that to hurt my feelings you big meanie
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
