A couple of readers recently commented that the days of “dynasties”, of one team becoming so dominant that they win the Stanley Cup in three or more consecutive years, in the NHL are a thing of the past.
From the late 1940s to the early 1980s, it was rather common for one team to win the Stanley Cup three or more times in a row. The Toronto Maple Leafs did it in the late 1940s and early 1960s. The Montreal Canadiens in the late 1950s (a record five times) and late 1970s, and the New York Islanders in the early 80s.
It was even common from the early days of the NHL to late 1990s for teams to win the Cup in two consecutive years. Since 1967, for example, the Montreal Canadiens, Philadephia Flyers, Edmonton Oilers, Pittsburgh Penguins and Detroit Red Wings accomplished this feat.
Yet there’s been no consecutive Cup winners since the Red Wings in 1997 and 1998, let alone any team winning the Cup as a “true dynasty” in three straight years. It’s become increasingly difficult for teams to repeat as Stanley Cup champions.
There are several reasons for this.
The current collective bargaining agreement with a salary cap and lowered eligibility ages for free agency has made it very difficult for a team to retain a dominant roster.
The length of the NHL season is another factor. For a Stanley Cup champion or finalist, they go through training camp in early September, pre-season in late September, an 82-game schedule from early October to mid-April, and then a grueling two-month playoff from mid-April to mid-June.
For the finalists, that allows less than three months to rest and recuperate and to allow nagging injuries to heal. Players also train harder and longer in the off-season than they used to, meaning they might actually see about two-to-three weeks of actual down time in the off-season. It’s an incredibly punishing toll on the human body.
There are more teams in today’s NHL compared to years past, meaning the talent is spread around more evenly. It was easier for savvy general managers to build and maintain a championship roster in the days of the “Original Six”, or in the days of the 12, 14, 16 and 21 team leagues.
It’s still possible for an NHL team to win consecutive championships of two years, but the odds aren’t as good as they used to be, and are even longer for consecutive championships of three or more years.
If there is a team that actually wins the Stanley Cup for two or three consecutive seasons in the next five years, it’ll be one helluva hockey club.
I think the fact that we don't have those teams winning three or more cups in a row is a good sign of our times in the new age of salary cap. It gives struggling franchises hope that they can, through draft picks and a free agent signing here and there, eventually hoist Lord Stanley's cup.
The whole column is almost axiomatic. I have only a couple of points. One is that it is that when there were only 6 or even 12 teams it was easier to have a dynasty, but not because the talent is 'more diluted' today. If the talent was so concentrated in those days why was it so easy to build a dynasty when the other teams should have had equally concentrated talent? No ... its simple mathematics ... fewer teams to beat to become a champion. I also don't think the longer season makes a huge difference. These are professional athletes who through science, excercise, diet, etc. keep their bodies much more finely tuned than in the past. If you don't believe me check out the Canadian 1972 team trying to do pushups and jumping hacks ... bizarre ... seriously. I think the biggest reason is that free agency has led to a more even distribution of top talent. It is harder to keep the players. Even the teams who are best at keeping and training talent (NJ and Detroit) have to reload.
Dynasty seems to be an evolving term. Once it was restricted to teams that three-peated or better. Then the NHL Guide and Record Book expanded the term to include teams like the Oilers, who never pulled off the three-peat but won five Cups in seven years. Now its thrown around in some quarters for teams that excelled over a period of time -- like the Detroit Red Wings (Cups in 1997, 1998 and 2002) and the New Jersey Devils (Cups in 1995, 2000 and 2003).
I'm a purist. "Dynasty" should be reserved for teams that three-peat, and the last dynasty was the New York Islanders (with a remarkable 19 straight playoff series won in a row). We lessen the term with overuse.
For teams that establish a standard of excellence for an extended period -- like the Devils (since 1995 three Cup wins and four Cup appearances) and the Red Wings (ditto) -- we need another term. Perhaps "Supremacy" or "Domination" would serve us better.
Having established all that, I won't say there will never be another dynasty, but it'll have to happen in pretty unique conditions. With players becoming free agents in as little as seven years, you've got a pretty tight window for the "build through the draft" model. You'll need a team that gets good rather young and wins early.
Then you'll need to lock-up that talent at a low cap price for an extended period, or you'll need to be able to spin-off your final contract year talent for young players and picks, scout exceptionally well and have them mature quickly.
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Last edited by Matt_McCallum on April 13th at 12:18 PM.
Just for fun, let's use the 1980s Oilers as an example. They won their first Cup five years after expansion (1984). Under the current CBA, here's when those great Oilers players would have become free agents:
1986 - Gretzky, Messier and Lowe
1987 - Coffey, Kurri, Anderson and Moog
1988 - Fuhr
Under a cap system, unless you get all those kids to take the hometown discount, you do not keep all that talent together for those Cup runs. Or if you do, you don't have enough scratch to keep or bring in all those support players like Charlie Huddy, Ken Linseman, Marty McSorley, Kent Nilsson and so on.
Now, in reality, Coffey and Moog were traded after the 1987 Cup (both due to contract disputes), and Gretzky was shipped out for $15 million after the 1988 Cup (as Peter Pocklington was bleeding cash). The other players stayed on through the 1990 Cup.
The Coffey deal picked up Craig Simpson. The Moog trade fetched Bill Ranford. The Gretzky deal got Martin Gelinas and Jimmy Carson (who was moved in 1989 to Detroit for Adam Graves, Petr Klima and Joe Murphy). Those players re-loaded the Oilers for the 1990 Cup win, but the chance for a dynasty was broken in 1989.
Of all the teams right now, Pittsburgh seems to be in the best shape to turn that trick, but think about when Crosby becomes an RFA: Isn't he worth extending an offer sheet and giving up four first round picks? Somebody's going to force the Penguins to pay him top dollar in short order, and then the salary cap cost cutting will begin.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on April 13th at 12:24 PM.
If the Pens can retain their core group of young players and continue to draft well and manage their payroll and their roster shrewdly, I believe they have the best and perhaps the only shot at being a dynasty for the foreseeable future. They have got to retain Crosby and Malkin and hope that Fleury develops into an elite netminder.
The Blackhawks, Capitals and Kings have good young talent, but not as much compared to the Pens in my opinion. The Pens made it to their first postseason and they still have Letang and Goligoski on defense waiting to play. Only time will tell how good this club will be.
I think everyone can agree that the next team to possibly become a dynasty will be the Penguins. They have a great young talent with Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and Fleury. The Kings also have a great group of young players, but until they get an above decent netminder, they'll never make it past the second round of the playoffs. Look out for Buffalo this year, and possibly repeating next year.
Buffalo won't win next year because Drury will sign with the Kings and Briere will sign with the Flyers. As long as the Sabres retain Ryan Miller they'll be fine because they draft and trade so well that they'll be able to peak every few years and be legitimate Cup contenders. I can't see this team winning 3 or 4 in a row.
LetsGoBuffalo,
Don't get me wrong, I think this Sabres team is awesome. I'm picking them to win the Cup in six games over the Ducks this season. You can see this in Spec's previous blog asking for our playoff predictions.
Part of the reason I don't think they'll win at least 3 in a row is free agency. You even pointed out that they'll probably retain one of either Drury or Briere. Unless they retain both that seriously damages their chances. Another reason is lack of goaltending depth. Miller is a stud, but Conklin as his backup? I don't think a 2nd rounder for Biron was wise at all. And lastly, even though players like Vanek and Stafford are going to mature into unbelieveable players, by the time this happens the Pens will be legitimate Cup threats.
Believe me when I say I think it would be cool to see a team win 3 or 4 in a row, especially a talented and gritty team with a superior coach like the Sabres, but I just don't think it'll happen.
No dynasty in Pittsburgh because they have no goaltending. Fleury isn't a number one and he doesn't look like he ever will be. I think Ottawa has a better chance to be a dynasty then Pittsburgh. To top it all of Ottawa could start the Dynasty this year. Detroit is also ahead of Pitsburgh for a dynasty. Sooner or later Malkin or Staal are going to be superstars and are going to get sick and tired of hearing about crosby. Pittsburgh could have three potential 100 point players next year, one of them will run for the money.
Anyone else find it funny that the only real dark horse to win the cup and prevent a dynasty from happening is Minnesota. I think they are the lowest seed that I have heard that could pull of an Edmonton fluke. Curious why Bob Mckenize called them a dark horse, considering they were on top of the division for a good chunk of the year.
Don't write-off the Penguins because of their goaltending. No one expects them to go all the way this season. Fleury has the chance to mature. And if he isn't the answer, they won't waste their talent; the Pens will make a move to fill that puckstopping void.
Remember, a fellow by the name of Grant Fuhr looked pretty awful in his first playoff series (vs. Los Angeles in 1982), and he turned out okay.
Lets_Go_Buffalo:
The Sabres are an excellent club with a tremendous farm system. But as free agency and salary cap restrictions drain away the current roster talent, that farm system will be depleted to fill the void. With the Sabres drafting in the high 20s every year, it's tougher to re-stock the cupboard. Eventually it will catch up with you.
I like that Buffalo squad a lot. They've done it the right way with homegrown talent, smart trades and solid free agent signings. They were an injury away from making it to the Cup Finals last year. And perhaps we'd talking about them repeating this season and winning three-in-a-row would be a possibility. (Or perhaps Roloson wouldn't have been injured and a sixth banner would be hanging in Rexall Place!)
However, Buffalo is at the peak of their curve, and losing either Briere or Drury for nothing next season is only going to hurt. If the Sabres are running out of time and if they are going to win their three-in-a-row, it's got to start this season. Conversely, Pittsburgh is at the beginning of their developmental curve, and in theory they've got a bit more time on their hands to put it all together.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on April 13th at 3:06 PM.
I can't help but notice you forgot to include the Rangers on the "Dynasty" list. They won two cups, TWO CUPS, in 6 decades. Dynasty material, baby!
So, the whole Dynasty thing annoys me, in all sports. Think back to the Cowboys in football. We all knew who was going to win the superbowl for years. Same thing with the Yankees in baseball. They're practically a sure-thing for the playoffs every year for the past decade. Boring.
I like my lovely little surprises every so often. The Lightning shocked me when they won the cup in '04. I honestly didn't see that coming. And last year, the final four pretty much blew my mind. Carolina? Buffalo? Anaheim? Edmonton, not so much, but still. Where was Detroit? Where was Colorado? New Jersey? Philly? The teams you sort of expect in the Conference finals, all missing. Beautiful! Even this season, the Thrashers are in the playoffs, as a third seed even. The Flyers didn't even make the playoffs. Same feelings, re: Minnesota/Colorado. Buffalo won the President's trophy. Doesn't that honor belong to Detroit perrenially?
No dynasties, thanks. It's more interesting this way.
From here on dynasties will be creates by great general managers and coaches. It's up to the gm's to do what they can with the money they have to attract the right players for the right price and to draft the right players at the right time.
Cymru
Back in the 6 team days, there was no draft. The NHL teams all owned or were affiliated with the Jr teams. If the NHL team was interested in one of their Jr players , they would offer said player a "C" form. Once you signed the C Form [I received 300$ when I signed mine] you were basically a slave to that team as long as they wanted you. As Eddie Shore who owned Springfield Indians told a friend of mine who played for him."I offer you x amount of Dollars. If you don't like it, go home and deliver milk", and there was no where else to go.
The teams in those days who had the best scouting and Jr teams stayed at the top. The Rangers and Boston [till the year after they signed Bobby Orr] were always fighting for 5th and 6th places.
Back then there were around 110 NHL jobs and those guys played year after year. Guys like Johnny Bower played in the minors 10-12 years before getting a shot. They didn't even carry a spare goaltender in those days
In comparing those days to these days. You had the best 110 players in the world playing against each other..
Now you have approx 600 of the bestplayers. Diluted by comparison? You bet it is.
Well, it seems to be that all of these dynasties were before the most recent expansion. So, I would agree that the talent is somewhat diluted due to expansion. Maybe the league needs to get rid of some these teams with very low attendance. If people aren't showing up to see these teams, then get rid of the teams and spread the talent around.
Matt-How are the Sabres at their peak? And how is it that the salary cap and contracts will hurt Buffalo and not Pittsburgh? That really doesn't make any sense.
Cobra ... as I'm only 41 I don't remember any of those teams so I can't personally judge. I didn't want to turn this into a debate about whether the talent is more diluted or more concentrated. My point was that if the talent was so concentrated then everyone would have an equal opportunity to get the good players so that it is more free agency than talent dilution that is working against there ever being another dynasty. You just proved my point for me. By signing and scouting the best players the dynasty teams probably actually kept top talent out of the league .
The Penguins will not be a Dynasty becase Flurey will hold them back. He is not a square to the shooter type of keeper and tends to get lost in his net.
The Kings will not because the Youngester are great but besides not having a goaltender they do not have the top notch 45 goal scorer or a second line center. Cammy will have the best bet to be that scorer but thats a big if, A Cereer year for Brown might net 30 and Frolov is to streeky. Kopitar is the wild card.
Drury to the Kings, Ya I wish that would happen to. But lets be real here. He had a Career year in a contract year. His numbers will drop next season and even more in the west because the goaltending is much better top to bottom in the west and would he realy want to leave the east coast where he is from? Why would he sign with a last place team. He is in his prime and could get the same money to sign with a much better club
Last edited by True_kings_fan on April 14th at 8:57 PM.
Drury will surprize people where he ends up. Call it a hunch but I think he is going to sign with a team compleaty off the Radar mabey like a Montreal or a NY Rangers. If he does come west I would say Dallas, Phoenix or for some reason I think Vancouver will find a way to get that deal done.
Drury did win a championship in Little Leagu baseball with his hometown team Trumble Conn.
I would love for the Kings to have him but it won't happen.
The Kings will be looking for blueline help first and formost and a Netminder. Center is pretty low on the ####'s list oops I meen Dean Lombardi
Kopitar will center the top line Armstong line 2 Lundmark on line 3. and O'Sullivan and Cammy can play center as well
Hey #### I meen Dean get smart and sign Niklas Backstrom
In Regaurds to Dynasties remeber the NHL in the 60's and 70's made it easy for teams like Montreal where they could sign a hometown player without having him go threw the draft.
The salary cap is to low with a max contract to high.
a 7 mill contract eats up alomst 1/7 of ur payroll space.
The contracts will lower over the next two or 3 offseasons as GM's ajust to the new CBA remember guys this is new to them to. It takes a few years to work out and some GM's have got it faster tha others.
Back to Back cups would be an amazing feat. As Spector said a hell of a hockey team would need to do it. How many teams are motivated to work hard to do it again. Carolina missed the post season and Tampa just made it the year they were defending. Motivation matters alot.
Last edited by True_kings_fan on April 14th at 9:13 PM.
Sorry for taking so long to reply. Occassionally life must interupt message board responses.
Let me explain the rationale behind my surmize that Buffalo is in a "win now" mode if they want three Cups in a row, while Pittsburgh has a bit of time to put things together.
The salary cap hurts Pittsburgh too, but it's a matter of timing. The Penguins have until all their young talent is between 25 (if they started in the league at 18) to 27 before UFA enters the picture. In theory, they can play contract hardball with all their RFAs and keep costs reasonable. With Crosby aged 19 they've got a window of six years before the cap really hammers them. (Now, as I've written before, Crosby is likely worth an offer sheet and four first-round picks if I'm a rival GM, so Pittsburgh might be paying him a star's wages sooner than not.)
Buffalo's key talent is closer to entering UFA status than Pittsburgh's, particularly with the choice between Drury and Briere this summer. And if the Sabres are fortunate enough to sign both fellows, then there's less cash for the supporting cast. Either way, there's a budget squeeze.
Again, we're talking about a team being able to maintain its key talent together for a long enough period to win three Cups in a row. Buffalo has some hard choices this summer concerning their key players. Pittsburgh doesn't face those choices for a few more of years.
Last edited by Matt_McCallum on April 17th at 11:06 AM.
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
