The Philadelphia media was abuzz Saturday with reports that almost a dozen teams have made trade inquiries of the Flyers for team captain Peter Forsberg.
It's unsuprising that there's so much interest in Forsberg, if one goes by his talent and the fact he's playing for the worst team in the NHL this season.
What is surprising, however, is the fact that these teams are apparently willing to accept damaged goods in a trade.
Despite his game-breaking skills, Forsberg has played at half-speed this season, plagued by pain in his surgically reconstructed right foot that has made skating very difficult, sending him on a seemingly endless quest this season for treatments, skate boots, and accessories to alleviate his problem.
Forsberg has repeatedly denied that he wants out of Philly, and as long as he declines to waive his "no-trade" clause he won't be going anywhere.
But there's growing speculation that he might accept a trade if the Flyers can get a good return, and that he'd leave with a "handshake deal" to re-sign with the club following this season, rather than test the UFA market.
So, if you were a general manager looking for a first line center, would you make this trade? Would you trade away some promising young talent and draft picks and risk sacrificing your team's future for a quick fix player who's battling pain and might not even be available for every game and might not be playing at his best? A player who'll be gone by the summer?
I know I wouldn't. Would you, dear readers? Lemme know.
There is no way that I would trade for Peter Forsberg. When he's healthy he's a great player, but even then, he is not the best player in the league. It goes back to the Lemieux vs. Gretzky argument...health and longevity mean a lot in this sport. If a player is often injured, it's tough for a player to help their team win.
All of the years of Forsberg's tenacious style of hockey have taken a toll on him. I don't think that he will ever be the player that he once was. His best days a behind him.
This is a buyer-beware trade if there ever was one. This is the kind of trade that can gut a rebuilding team and brand a GM's tenure.
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 20th at 11:10 AM.
I used to be a fan of Forsberg, until earlier this season I saw him play a game against the Lightning in Philly. This was before everyone on the flyers knew their season was in the tank. The Flyers were down two, and Forsberg was trying to get his team back in the game, when he had a meltdown.
After not getting a call on what he thought was a penalty, he took 2 mins for unsportsmanlike. Then after he got outta the box he takes about 14 more minutes when he elbowed our defenseman behind the net, then dove to draw a penalty, then got a 10 min. misconduct and ejection for arguing. The refs microphone was live at the time and I heard Forsberg arguing, then the ref said "yea you have all the answers dont you? Get to the box".
After the game, a predictable Flyer's loss, Forsberg left the locker room before his team had left the ice, and refused to talk to the media. If this was some dumb basher, or a rookie, it could be understandable, but for a team captain and one of the most recognizable veterans in the sport to do this to his team was unthinkable. Even going by the refs reaction, Forsberg has lost the respect of officials, players, and his team. I wouldnt want a guy like that in our locker room.
Added to that is his lack of production this year.
I think Forsberg has lost his heart, I wonder if his foot is really as bad as they or he makes it out to be. I think he is done no heart, no desire, he just likes cashing the paycheck.
No, No, No! Buffalo definitely doesn't need him and there is no way that any team that needs a center badly should be willing to give too much up.
I don't like this "loaning" out of players anyways. Spector if what you say is true and they have a gentlemans handshake about his return, then this is nothing more than soccer's loaning out of players. Its just like Doug Weight last year.
Not to mention, since you are allowing me to be the GM of the Sabres for this thing, I have to worry about signing Briere and Drury. Spector any chance you see both of them coming back?
boltsfan- Forsberg was doing that at the end of last year when the Flyers knew they were getting knocked out of the playoffs. I'm not at all surprised by your account. A typical Ken Hitchcock team.
Last edited by LetsGoBuffalo on January 20th at 3:03 PM.
Throwing elbows seems to be Forsberg's tactic of choice, lately. I've seem him hitting guys up high in every Flyers game that I've seen this season. I don't know if this is out of frustration or what, but I think it's a pretty cowardly way to gain control in a one-on-one battle. I have lost a lot of respect for him in the last year or so.
Forsberg knows that it's best for the Flyers for him to waive his no-trade clause so they can get some assets for him at the deadline to build on.
But...
He's got the 'C' stitched on his sweater. And his tenure as the captain has been marked with quite a few failings. The penalty shot situation, bad penalties late in games, being hurt virtually half the campaign... you're not going to see him hang himself by making any public indication that he's ready to jump off the sinking ship. He's the captain. He's going to say he wants to stay until Flyers brass openly beg him to waive his no-trade clause.
As for him being washed up and a shadow of his former self... let's remind everybody that he is only one season away from complete, quintessential Forsberg-esque domination last season. He's turned average goal-scorers like Gagne and Knuble into 40-50 goal and 20-30 goal men respectively. He was registering an assist-per-game, back-checking with a fury, and nobody could take the puck from him.
He's just a perfect skate boot or an ingenous brace away from being all that again. And there's not a GM out there that doesn't realize that when you get Forsberg, you not only get one of the elite playmakers in NHL history, but you automatically make the other 4 skaters around him exceed expectations.
If Forsberg can skate, he'll be traded. That's the bottom line. He's damaged goods, for sure, and the return won't be anything like it would have been even last year, but the Flyers will get a nice prospect and a pick for Foppa if he's even 75% healthy.
There's another way such a trade helps the Flyers: a graceful resolution to the problem of Forsberg wearing the C. Naming him captain hasn't worked for Philly, and I'm pretty sure that the Flyers will want someone different to be captain next year even if Forsberg returns. Trading him allows Philly to name someone else captain without the painful process of actually stripping it from him.
Even while at half speed Forsberg is still one of the best players in the league. If he were traded he'd make almost any team a cup contender. However, with no chance of re-signing him due to his "handshake deal" with Philly, I can't see any GM selling their future for him. So to answer your question Spector, no I wouldn't trade for him.
LGB: The Sabres could easily afford to re-sign both Drury and Briere. The problem, however, is by doing so they'll have to sacrifice depth elsewhere to make it happen, and then they'll end up facing the same problem that the Lightning have this season.
I think they'll re-sign Briere and cut Drury loose, not because they want to but because they'll have no choice.
Yep, that salary cap has sure made it easier for teams to retain their best players, eh?
I definately wouldn't go for Forsberg. The guy just has too many injury issues. He's missed so many games already just because they couldn't find a skate that would work with him. I wouldn't be comfortable trading the future of my team (if I had one) for a guy I'm not even sure will be able to play the entire playoffs.
I certainly wouldn't give up a first round draft pick. Maybe a second round draft pick. It's hard for me to buy into the idea of paying a lot for a rental player especially given his physical condition.
He's got too many issues in Philly to stay. He's been on winning teams his whole career and he's frustrated that when he plays Philly goes out and loses every night. I think he would play through pain if he thought it would make a difference to his teams record.
In the last 10 seasons (not counting the lockout), Forsberg has averaged only 51 games a season. And in two of the last five seasons, he didn't even reach 40 games on the ice. Forsberg is 34 years old and it has to be taking a toll on him to fight through injuries year after year.
Trading the farm for Forsberg at this point in his career is a risk that I wouldn't take as a GM.
Spector, I think the salary cap will settle down after a few seasons when pre-existing contracts start to come up empty. At that time I think theres goiing to be a changing of the guard for the high priced players, while some of the players taking up a lot of cap room now will have to settle for less money in the future if they want to keep playing. When that happens teams will hopefully be better in how they allocate their money and will be able to retain their players.
The Flyers have augered into the ground deep enough to find an oil field signin aging used to be's. It's time for them to get young. Speed kills and you need wheels to get to the Cup not wheelchairs.
I really doubt there will be any 'handshake' agreement if Forsberg leaves Philly. The Flyers know that there's going to be some top-flight young talent available in this summer's UFA market, so another $6M to ride the Footpa merry-go-around has probably already been ruled out. And as Gentle_Ben said, no better way to mercifully end the Captain Forsberg experiment than to just let him loose to greener pastures.
Detroit has been eyeing Forsberg as the missing piece of their club. I wouldn't be surprised to see them willing to part with a newly re-signed (and overpaid) Kronwall for Peter the Great. Lebda and a 1st-rounder in 2008 might also do the trick.
As for handshakes...
The one player from the Flyers that would be this year's Recchi-esque rent and re-sign would be Sami Kapanen. Many playoff-bound clubs covet his experience, defensive conscience and versatility. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Flyers give him a shot at the Cup and then make him their captain after they re-sign him for '07-'08.
I agree with boltsfan. It's too early to quash the new salary cap experiment. There are still too many pre-cap contracts that are muddying the waters.
The next 2-3 years will really tell the story. For example, will Crosby sign for 8 million per year or 10 million? We'll find out soon enough. As a side note, Crosby has hinted at the fact that he would consider taking less than the 20% of the team payroll that is allowed by the new CBA for his next contract, in order to keep the team together. Interesting...
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 21st at 9:09 PM.
1) We're told that Peter is about 75:25 likely to NOT allow a trade of any kind this season
2) Forsberg apparently would like to avoid the rigors of 2+ months of Stanley Cup hockey. He already has his rings so that won't motivate the Swede
3) Instead he'd like to give his injury riddled body the full 4 months to recover and then he'll decide if he wants to return to North America next year. That is 50:50 right now.
I'd never make a trade to acquire Forsberg. When you look at his history... I can recall there was a season when he didn't play a single regular season game and came back only for the play-offs. I mean what does this say about him and about the loyalty to his team (at that time the Avs). Every team that trades for him would have the uncertanty if he will even play... And giving up players and/or picks for that? No, never!
Lanstar91: If Detroit trades Kronwall for Forsberg that will be a BIG mistake. Keep in mind that, overpaid or not, this is Kronwall's first full-season in the NHL (he was injured over half of last year). Top notch talent doesn't mature overnight. The Wings will need to give Kronwall some more time. If I were Ken Holland, the only way I would trade for Forsberg is to send Lilja to Philly with a conditional 2nd round pick - that is, if the Wings make the conference finals, then they get a 2nd rounder. If not, then Philly only gets a 3rd round pick. I can't see Philly taking that deal anyway - why would they want Lilja when they have another big, slow d-man who is still a better player in Hatcher?
I would definately trade for foresburg as long as the asking price isn't too steep. I watch a lot of flyers games and foresburg is still very creative with the puck and has better ice vision than anyone else on the flyers. I saw a game live last week against the penguins and he was the only person on the ice that could complete a pass and create on the offensive end on the whole team! If I had to give up a second rounder and a scrub player, i'd take the chance...sure there is an injury risk, but foresburg is still a fantastic player when he is on the ice...if you aren't giving up too much, why not limit his minutes and hope for the best come playoff time?
If I were a GM, I would not waste my time with Forsberg, the dude is finished. In addition, if there is a handshake agreement that he returns to the Flyers next season, definetely stay away.
PS. Hey BlackGoldPenguin2. Do you have a job??? Just wondering, since you are always on this blog.
Well it all depends on the club, weather they would take a look at peter or not. I'm a wings fan and for us i don't think it would hurt to check him out. We could really use a guy who can set up a play and still deliver a hit and be dirty when we need them to be. We have 3 of the best sweds in the league and that would only benefit both their play as well as foresburgs. So i think in our position he wouldn't be a bad pick up. Our best bet would be to make him a healthy scratch though. At least until we're only a couple weeks away from the playoffs.
No, actually, I just hop on this blog and my own maybe five or six times a day. I just look to see if anything new has surfaced or if anyone has a tidbit of insight into a topic on a thread. It's a good stress-reliever for me, between hassles at work and home.
Spec,
The only teams I could see wanting him are ones looking for a short term piece to win the cup. Being that he will most likely be back in Philly next year, it makes no sense for a team on the bubble to take him and lose a good young player in return. That being said, who do the Preds, Wings, or Canucks offer up to get him for a run at the cup?
yes i would trade anything for foresberg. i am a philly fanatic and at first i said the same as most. foresberg has never played a whole season. foresberg has made me eat my words plenty. foresberg at half speed is better then most at full speed. lets go over some facts. the flyers have not one one game without him this season. no they havent even competed without him. look what he has done for simone gagne. he has a superhuman awarness that alowes him to set up play after play. yeah he blew the tampa game but i dont blame him if you watched philly games you would do the same. the refs have cost the flyers ten games easy this season hell they have more icetime then most third liners. and they never call a slash, highstick, or hook against him because he would rather continue playing then exagerate the penelty. he is a classy guy. a hero on the ice. and if the nhl keeps players like him down and boosts up babies like crosby and lets refs play more hokey then the players. im going to stop watching hockey. bring back hitting battleing for the puck and keep the refs out of the game.
old school avs fan here (valeri kaminsky, stephane yelle), and i have not follwoed the nhl like i used to (living in SD SoCal), but i cant believe all the forsberg hating going on out there. I have been (and still am) an Avs season ticket holder, and i will be the first to admit that he is a "dirty" player, but come on, the guy is still one of the greatest to play the game. he is not washed up, and i would love for the avs to have him back!!!
My wifes cousin lives with him in Philly. We have yet to meet him, but our daughter has and so have both of my brother in laws and the immediate family spent Christmas with him. No matter what, when he gets on the ice, healthy, he produces. His docs in Sweden will have the final say over the All Star break. Dave
james, I'm trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that Crosby is a baby. Was it when Hatcher knocked out one of his teeth last year with an stick to the face and then Crosby stayed in the game and scored the winner? No wait...that wouldn't make sense...humm...still thinking...
If you're referring to him yapping to the refs last year, fair enough. He was 18 years old, but he's already more mature about how he handles interactions with the refs. If it's something else, I'd like to know.
Crosby plays a lot of minutes every night and isn't afraid to go at the net or into the boards and mix it up with people. The wussy players usually stay away from those areas.
Now, just 'cause I'm a Pens fan, I'm not going to say that Crosby is the toughest guy out there, or even that he's tougher than Forsberg, but he also weighs 30 pounds less. (Sorry, Canadian brothers, I don't know the metric conversion for y'all)
I agree with you that the refs should let the players play, but I hope to God that they don't ever let the NHL go back to the slow-paced, clutching and grabbing fest that it was in the past ten years. I'd rather watch the All Star Game every night than that ####. Although, Hatcher probably prays every night for a time machine to take him back to five years ago.
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 22nd at 9:17 PM.
Peter Forsberg has been the greatest hockey player in the world over the last decade. Well, at least when he played in Colorado. Thus, if I'm Forsberg, I would go and only go back to Colorado. He is legendary there and that is the best place for him.
Peter the Great could be a difference maker in one of the tighter divisions (Can anyone say NW?) He's proven in years past that he doesn't have to play all 82 games of a regular season to be a monster performer in the playoffs either. He would definitely be worth a couple of draft picks, especially if you thought you had a real chance this year.
I loved to watch Pete play, but i was sooo happy that the Avies traded him. #1 his ankles/foot problems are never going to heal the right way. #2 He has a bad habit of getting distacted when he doesn't get a call and would rather give the ref an earfull while the rest of his line continue to play shorthanded.
#3 Needed the cap space!!!
#4 Very, very prone to injuries due to the way he loves to play the game.
Don't get me wrong, Pete is a great player, but i wouldn't trade for him unless my team desperately needed upgrades in the grit and skill dept. He also provides his own unique brand of leadership and intensity. He would also have to take a paycut!
unfortunately hes not worth top dollar money as he was in his younger years!
I must say that I´m surprised at how little most of you understand about Winning the cup and about Peter forsberg. True is that he has had a lot of injuries, true is that he has not produced as much as can be desired during the regular season because of it. BUT! He has 2 Stanleys and 2 olympic golds to his name and no one has a better post season statistic during the last decade. When it comes to trading for him, I would do it 24/7 if I had a good shot at the cup and didnt have to give up to much of my current rooster to get him. The reason is that he can win games all on his own like no one else. Forsbergs win cups, Kapanens doesnts
Statistics: 19 Gamewinning goals in the NHL playoffs. Directly behind 2 gamewinning goals in The Olympic Finals. The Flyers have yet to win a single game without him on the ice this year. If there ever has been a player with a clutch & winning attitude - it is Peter Forsberg.
He is injured and his foot problems are perhaps career threatening. So gambling on him as a rental is of course a risk - if you do not give up too much in return. But it is in my opinion a calculated gamble well worth taking. I believe his prescence on a contending/dark horse team would be what might bring home the Cup this year. Adding him to the Ducks, Red Wings, Canucks (who are not contenders now but would be with Forsberg), Flames, Sharks or Rangers would make each of these teams lethal in contention for The Cup. I hope he goes to The Rangers for ... let´s say - J Immonen, a first rounder and Jason Ward (or another grinder). It would be very interesting to follow them with 2 top lines and move Cullen down to a 3rd with Hossa and Krog. They still would need a top 2 defenseman though - Erik Brewer ???
If anyone needs to know whether Forsberg can still play the game despite significant ankle problems just watch a clip from the 1/20 Flyers/Devils game. Forsberg skated from the side boards towards the middle, drawing the Devil defenders towards him, and then made a perfect pass to set up Gagne to the left of Broduer that Gagne top shelfed. Forsberg may not be the player he once was but he is still among the best in the game. I think there are teams more than willing to deliver a prospect and a pick or two for the chance to add a final piece of the puzzle for a Cup run.
If I were Holmgren I wouldn't even concern myself with a current player from another team. Go for the picks and prospects. As a long time Flyer fan I resigned myself early in the season that this team does not have the goods to be a contender. In fact, the Sabres made that very clear in the playoffs last year. I had the misfortune of being at the Game 2 shellacking where Buffalo won 9-2. Not that I want to see the Flyers lose BUT I am very happy that the team has turned to playing the kids this year especially on defense. Timmonen, Jonsson, Printz, Picard and Jones will all benefit in the long run by the experience of this year. I like what I see from the kids and I believe the team has a good nucleus for the future. They are also guaranteed to have the first or second pick in this summers draft. Holmgren, if you are reading this, stay on track with the kids. Build from within. I like the idea of going after a Drury or Briere in free agency but do not try to rebuild this team with a bunch o
What in the world has happened to Derian Hatcher??? Granted, I've not watched any Flyers games this year, but the general consensus amongst fans seems to be that he's been left behind in this "new NHL".
Everybody slams him for his lack of speed, but has he lost all sense of positioning too? Speed is great, but I'd rather have a defenseman who lacks speed and has good positioning & sees the ice well than a defenseman who's fast but doesn't "get" where he needs to be.
As an example, I must cite the 40-something Chris Chelios. He's never been known as a fast skater, and he certainly isn't getting any faster. He's not a huge guy, and he isn't exactly someone who's going to QB the powerplay. Despite this, he's still a good player who is valuable to Detroit b/c he understands the game & knows where to be on the ice. His perception of where the plays are happening is still there.
Back to Hatcher: This guy is, if I'm not mistaken, a former Norris finalist & at one time was regarded as one of the better stay-at-home d-men in the league. You guys who have been watching Philly this year, tell me - what's happened to this guy?
A better question would be, who would you trade for Forsberg? If you think your team is that close to winning the Cup this year, if he's healthy, he brings alot. So do you trade young talent or draft picks for a "rental" player. It worked for the Hurricanes. As for Derian Hatcher, easy answer to what has happened to him. He quit and is just collecting a paycheck. It has nothing to do with speed or positioning. They should trade him too, if anyone will take him.
Stevo808, that season Forsberg only played in the playoffs. He ripped 'em, and was the best Colorado player every game. Honestly people a lot of people so far overthink his age and his injuries. If he is healthy there is absolutely no question. Forsberg is still probably one of the best passers in the game. And is the toughest superstar. And i'm pretty sure the asking price will be pretty low, i mean look how many people said they won't trade for him. If you watch any of Forsberg's games this year, you know he isn't finished. I don't care how fast players can ever get, Daniel Briere or any other "new-NHL" star, will never, be more valuable than Peter Forsberg.
Let's face it. Regardless of what we all believe about Forsberg, if he made his way to our respective teams we would support him. He commands respect on the ice. While playing, healthy or not, he is the focus any time he is on the ice. Teams will take chances trying to cover him while leaving decent hockey players wide open. He has proven he can make okay hockey players good players and great players even better. The NHL will always need those players who are tough with skills. They attract fans and put bodies in the seats. Forsberg brings leadership and a competitve attitude that most teams would welcome.
Of course I would trade for Forsberg, but only in draft choices. If it is a rental for the playoffs then a 2nd rounder should do it. I am a Canuck fan and have been since they started. Winning a Cup, even while mortgaging a part of the future would be a real lift for the fans and the culture of the team. Lots of teams have lots of draft choices. Only one team wins the Cup.
another comment. Forsberg causes me to feel nervous when he is in my team's end of the rink. Back in the day Lindros was a bonafide Canadian hockey hero who could not miss and the Nordiques were going to get stiffed with some soft Swede. Look at how that turned out. He is not that old and he has a lot of pride. This is one of the top ten players in the last decade. A second round draft choice and maybe a fringe guy are not too steep a price. I sure would like to see him with the Sedins and Naslund.
The point that seems to be getting missed here is the status of Forsberg's reconstructed right foot. If Forsberg were healthy, I wouldn't have bothered making this post because it would be a no-brainer: of course I'd trade for him if he were available.
But the problem here is his foot, and despite some of the optimism expressed here about him being only a new skate boot away from getting back to form, it's not as simple as that. His foot is so crooked it won't fit into a conventional skate boot, and every attempt to find a fit has failed. We're now five months into the season, and he's becoming frustrated over the inability to find a solution. It could well be that there's no solution.
He's damaged goods now, and dealing for him at this point would be a mistake if there's no foreseeable solution to his foot problem.
Spector,
Yes he is damaged goods but a team is trading for his services for just the next 2-4 months. If he was sitting with 2 or 3 more years on his contract AND had the foot issues then he would be untradable just like Hatcher and Rathje are untradable. I believe teams will overlook the foot issues and hope to catch lightning in a bottle for the next few months.
It's simply not a gamble worth taking, parting with picks, prospects and/or young players for a guy that, as talented as he is, is so hobbled there's no guarantee he'll be able to play well in even half of the remaining games this season, let alone be ready to come through when needed most, in the post-season. IMO any GM doing this (and yes, that includes Bob Gainey of my beloved Habs) would be making a foolish move, wasting pieces of the future for a dubious quick fix now. That simply isn't smart management.
Yes! The Flyers need to start rebuilding now!!!!! Trade Forsberg for some prospects or a journeyman type player....a goal tender would be nice (so you can waive Esche) Re-signing Forsberg will not happen for the Flyers....If he tests the market, he will find a taker.
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
