It’s been a while since I’ve heard a trade rumor reported in the media that made me laugh derisively out loud, but the following did just that.
I was watching Sportsnet’s Hockeycentral tonight, and the panel was discussing the latest speculations, when toward the end of the segment host Darren Millard almost sheepishly mentioned an internet rumor of the Colorado Avalanche supposedly discussing a potential trade with the Tampa Bay Lightning.
The supposed deal? Goalie Marc Denis and center Vincent Lecavalier to the Avs for goalie Jose Theodore and possibly another player.
Good thing I wasn’t drinking my Sidney Street Stout at that time or that would’ve resulted in a painful noser.
While I brayed with laughter,Millard's fellow panelists Bill Watters and Nick Kypreos were quick to dismiss this rumor leaving poor Millard looking more sheepish for having brought it up.
I’m not calling Millard stupid. He didn't cite it as a fact, wasn't suggesting this had any chance of happening, definitely didn’t look comfortable mentioning it and was left almost cringing after Watters and Kypreos were finished ripping it apart. I’m not shooting the messenger.
Millard isn’t stupid. The rumor is.
As Watters and Kypreos pointed out, Theodore simply hasn’t been playing well since last season. Montreal Canadiens GM Bob Gainey somehow enticed then-Avs GM Pierre Lacroix into acquiring Theodore last March, but apart from a few decent playoff games, the 2002 Vezina-Hart winner has shown no signs of returning to form.
This season, Theodore’s been outplayed by backup Peter Budaj, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Budaj takes over full time by March when the playoff races tighten up and every game becomes important. That'll leave the Avs with a $5.5 million backup riding the pine down the stretch.
It’s common knowledge the Lightning aren’t very pleased with Marc Denis poor performance since acquiring him last summer from Columbus, but you can bet what’s left of your Christmas turkey they won’t take a chance on a shaky Theodore and his hefty salary.
As for Lecavalier, even Watters and Kypreos don’t believe he (or Brad Richards or Martin St. Louis) will be going anywhere.
If the Avs want to be rid of Theodore, they’ll have to wait until June when they can buy out the remaining year of his salary at two-thirds its value.
Even without factoring in all the obvious salary cap issues such a trade would raise, this is most definitely the stupid trade rumor of the day, and the first really stupid one of the New Year.
Spector, I didn't get cramps from a laughing-fit or spit Iron City Beer out of my nose, but I do think that I strained an eye muscle as it rolled skyward. Why would someone, even sheepishly, give this rumour any wings at all? Wow, some things will always amaze, like a hockey fan's willingness to believe in the unbelievable, and a media person's instict to be the first to claim a story.
p.s. Your fifth grade teacher called. She wants to give you a gold star for using "derisively" in a sentence. Good work. :o)
p.s.s. Neo, your avatar is artistic and creepy all at the same time. Also, good work.
p.s.s.s. Neo, I'm dissappointed. I hope I wasn't a factor in you chaging your avatar pic. I liked it...mostly.
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 7th at 10:46 PM.
NO... The first STUPID rumour and comment of the year is that of the Torres AND Lupal for Pitkänen rumour.
The Flyers could get more than that for him. You don't give away a 23 year old offensive D, that is still learning, (and that you could build your team around) for Lupal and Torres. Give me a break.
you know I dont understand the outry by the "fans" who want Denis' head. Theyre the same fans that blame last seasons struggles solely on john grahame. Ive even gone so far as to write so on the St. pete times Lightning Blog, for which I was suitably chastised by other fans.
I know Denis is a good goalie, so his struggles this year really surprised me. What system did Columbus play? Some have suggested that Denis success (of a kind) was the result of a trapping system and good Dmen, but I really never thought CBJ had that good a d-corps.
I do think Denis has what it takes to win, all you have to look at is his success against shooters in the shootouts, but it may be that his struggles come from a Lightning D-corps that has traditionally struggled for years. As far as I can remember Feaster has always been looking to find a top 2 dman, and the reality of losing daryll sydor as a cap casualty really hurt this team.
Spector: any truth to the other rumors that the bolts have their eye on the Avs john michael-liles? If so, what would it take to get him?
boltsfan: other than media speculation I can't say for certain how much truth there is to that. Since Leopold's injury I don't think the Avs are keen on moving any of their defencemen. I also don't believe Liles is available, even though it was suggested in late-November in the Denver Post that he might be.
I don't think Liles is going anywhere. He's a steal at 1.3 mil and he's performing incedibly well. If the Avs lose Liles their power play would collapse. In my opinion Liles won't go anywhere unless he goes with Theodore (overly expensive player with a good value player) for a true number one tender. But Budaj decides if anything like that happens.
I refuse to beleive that the big 3 in Tampa are untouchable. They can't be if they want to win and if the internet rumors of them being untouchable are true then Tampa's GM will most likely lose his job somewhere down the line for not having the balls to pull the trigger and deal one of them for an upgrade on defense and some more wiggling space with the cap.
St. Louis has a no-trade clause so he can't be moved without his permission. Neither Lecavalier or Richards have no-trade clauses in this year of their contracts, however, to find a team willing to absorb their huge contracts is perhaps the best "no-trade" clause of them all.
Big contracts doesn't necessarily mean a player can't or won't be dealt, as we saw last year with Joe Thornton, but with over two-thirds of the teams with payrolls at or over $40 million, there aren't many clubs with the necessary "wiggle room" to move out enough cap space to comfortably afford those salaries.
Thadd, the "big 3" truly are untouchable. The way fans are here is not a traditional hockey mentality of loving a team more than individual players. Here its more like baseball where fans pick their players and cheer more for individual success and team succes second.
However, I do think Feaster may eventually have to seriously consider moving one of them. I dont thinkitd be st. loius, because i dont think he would play as well in any other system. (Although Torts should feel complimented that his "safe is death" forecheck and intensity has caught on and helped the Canes to the cup last year), Lecavalier is not nor will ever go anywhere, simply for the fact that he is the face of the franchise. hort of a holdout and trade demand or a ridiculous FA offer from another team, Vinny is a bolt for life.
Richards may be the only one of the three that may ever move, but again its unlikly, due to the size of his contract.
You may think Feaster painted himself into a corner with his contracts tendered to these three, but its not really his fault. Vinny and St. louis signed after the cup year, right before? (or after?) the lockout, when no one really knew what the new style of contracts would be. So with the combination of stanley cup winning excitement and uncertainty of the new CBA, feaster did the best he could. Its the same with Richards. In the wake of a year layoff then a very disappointing season, Feaster had a very real concern that losing Richards could honestly doom this franchise in Tampa.
A for the struggles of the team and the restrictions placed upon it by th
As for the struggles of the team and the restrictions placed upon it by the "big 3" i agree it paints a bleak picture for the future unless some very big roster moves are made. After winning the cup, featser and torts admitted that the succes was about 3-4 years ahead of time. More than any team, the layoff seems to have affected the Bolts and theyve never regainied their championship form, with the added pressure and their inabilty to sneak up on any team. Everyone knows how talented this team is and how dangerous they can be. Maybe a trade of a big name and a roster shakeup will put this team over the hump. However, the only way a team would get one of our big 3 is to offer up a package that cant be refused, along with dumping a large part of their salary.
Maybe a team with a lot of young prospects to offer, salary cap space, few veterans and in need of a new leader, one whos proven himself and won the cup? ARE YOU LISTENING PITTSBURGH? Malkin for Richards! How bout you San Jose? Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Toskala for Richards and Denis?
Wow, what great rumors to start. But they'll never happen. Feaster has already proven himself to be real slow about pulling the trigger on deals that the team needs. (See last years trade deadline)
Sorry for so long a post Spector, had a lot of free time on my hands, and just got done watching a great matchup between the bolts and penguins complete with amazing buzzer beating heroics (crosby) and a great game winning shootout move (st. louis)
I think that another thing that people forget to take into account with trade rumours is the true positions of the players in question. When it comes to the Bolts, Vinny is the #1 center, no doubt. And Brad Richard is their #2 centerman. After these two, the quality of centermen on the roster quickly drops off. Why would the Bolts gut their #2 line just to get a 2nd line Dman? Or even another goalie for that matter? The Bolts thought that they had picked up a proven goalie with Denis and he has struggled. So, they run the risk of doing the same with a trade involving Richards. I don't blame Feaster. I wouldn't take the risk either. boltsfan is right about the fans in central FL and their love for individual players over the team. Richards is a big ticket draw for the Bolts. Feaster needs to see if he can get anything for Prospal or Feds and ride out the rest of the season. Then, the cap will go up again in the off-season and Feaster will hopefully be permitted to bring in some new blood through free agency.
boltsfan, c'mon man...Richards for Malkin? Who do you think the Pens are, the Rangers? P-lease. :o)
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 7th at 10:48 PM.
I have to agree with Black and Gold on this one... WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH would you trade Malkin? Staal.... maybe, but not Malkin he is way too valuable, and the pens just simply aren't built to win now, Marc Andre Fleury sucks, plain and simple, and was probably a waste of a first round pick. That guy almost diddn;t make the team out of training camp he is so inconsistent.and even if they were ready to compete now, they are moving at the end of the season anyways so what would be the big rush to trade one of the most promising young NHL players for one, when hes on his game is good to great, and at times incosistent(believe me i have him on my fantasy team.... terrible, i knew i should have dropped him for Alexander Semin, 3 weeks ago)
As for the rumors with J-M Liles, you would have to have a VERY low IQ to trade JM Liles at this point with the Av's already short Jordan Leopold. Furthermore i think Liles is having a career year, and has always been more than steady in his own end. so what more could you ask for? if they do trade him the Av's power play will go right down the toilet, along with their season as they would be missing something very important which is that great first pass out of the Def. Zone, and if you don't think thats important, watch a Devils game from 2003 and watch scott niedermayer, then watch a devils game from 2005 and see if theres a difference. I can tell you as a season ticket holder for the Devils that its VERY noticable
Last edited by njdevils40 on January 8th at 11:01 AM.
I could see Tampa and the Avs making something work.
Avs Get
Vinny
Denis
Tampa Gets
Liles
Theodore
Richardson
Possibly a 1st rounder or high end prospect
With a pick/prospect or two going one way (likely to Tampa) or the other to round it out. Less likely right now because of Liles missing some time, but this injury will also tell if Colorado can win without JM Liles and if he is potentially moveable. The Avs also need a backup for Budaj, and who better then Denis really.
Its unlikely, but not impossible. The two clubs may also make something happen with Theodore and a prospect for Denis and say Prospel or some other player from Tampa's end to balance out salary.
Svatos is another affordable guy the Avs may be willing to dangle if the right kind of deal was out there.
Unlikely, heck yeah, but impossible. (see the last time Theodore was traded)
Last edited by TickerDS on January 8th at 12:53 PM.
Well Liles is now officially out a month due to a broken foot so this ridiculous rumour is also a moot point now. I would love to see Vinny on the Avs but I just don't think it's gonna happen now unless the Avs include Hejduk/Svatos and picks/prospects. I really don't think the Bolts want Theo either.
At the begining of the year I was saying Richards to Washington for Semin. Next year the floor for the salary cap is going to rise and Washington is going to be forced to spend more money and they're in the playoffs right now. If they traded Semin for a center who could play with the Alex remaning they'd be the deadliest line in the league. I think they'd easily get into the playoffs and that would be great for ticket sales. Having a team that makes a playoffs gives the fans more hope and hope sells tickets even if they go out in the first round.
While I appreciate you agreeing with me on the crazy Malkin trade talk, I have to disagree on your assesment of Fleury. Fleury is one of the main reasons that the Pens are where they are today, plain and simple. Yes, he didn't have a good camp and he's been inconsistent at times, but "suck" he does not. He is only 22 years old and goalies and d-men are notorious for taking longer to develop into solid NHL players. This is only his second season as the starter for the Pens.
Let's compare Fleury's second season stats to Brodeur's, shall we...
M A Fleury -- Games=33, Wins=17, Losses=11, Ties=0, GA=2.89, Saves=.905, SO=2
The stats look pretty darn close and I doubt too many people would say that Brodeur sucks. I know I wouldn't. Right now, there is still half of a season to play and Fleury is set to beat Marty's second season stats in Wins, Shutouts and possibly Save percentage (in all fairness, probably Losses too).
Cut the kid some slack. When I was 22, I was still cutting classes to shoot billiards and play table tennis in the Quad rec. room. :o)
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 9th at 12:41 AM.
I am gonna have to disagree with you on comparing Brodeur's second season to Fleury's
Brodeur as you noted only played a total of 40 games that year during the regular season, as that season was shortened by the lock-out. Also the Devils have always been a second half team, meaning they always step it up after January for some reason, and with the season shortened by lockout, the Devils got to hit their stride just as they were hitting the playoffs. I don't think Fleury will have that chance this year to shine in the playoffs like Brodeur did, because i mean COME ON!!!! the guy won a cup his second season.(oh and for all those that don;t consider it really "winning the cup", if it was so easy why diddn;t your team do it?!) Furthermore, Brodeur wasn;t a 1st overall pick, and wasn't counted on to be a starter that year just yet because Terreri had plenty of juice left in his career at that point. In order to be worthy of a true number 1 pick status you need to have the poise and the fire to stay sharp. Look at Crosby, and what he did his first year..... Fleury doesn;t even scratch the surface of his maturity and poise. And i do agree with you absolutely that Goalies and Dmen take longer to develop, its also true that the really great ones usually show their dominance within a year or 2 of drafting. Of course none of these things are set in stone, but having watched Fleury on more than a few occasions up close, i can tell you he doesnt have the mental make-up to be a dominant goalie. He could be a good goalie though with better defensemen in front of him
Last edited by njdevils40 on January 9th at 10:59 AM.
I agree with many of your points, including where each golaie was drafted, etc. All I'm saying is that Fleury doesn't "suck". That was your quote.
Fleury is not ready to carry a team to a Cup win for sure, but he's not doing too shabby as a #1 goalie behind what is a below-average defensive corps.
If you want to talk about Brodeur's Cup-winning second season, let's look at the team that was in front of him. And add on top of that the fact that the Neutral-zone Trap was in its hey-day and being run to perfection by the experts of the trap, the New Jersey Devils. Fleury may not have won the Cup if he played for the Devils that year, but he certainly would have won some games for them.
Last edited by BlackGoldPenguin21 on January 9th at 11:26 AM.
It's all good. But man I wish you would have said that earlier. Not only did I have to look up all those stats, I think I got carpal tunnel from all that typing. :o)
p.s. Do you really take it back or did you just get sick of my retorts? (My wife says I'm competitive, but I'd bet her anything that I'm not) - haha
I'm Lyle Richardson, also known as Spector, Foxsports.com 's "Prince of Pucks".,which is based on the fact I live in Prince Edward Island, Canada and I couldn't think of a better byline. I've been an NHL hockey commentator since 1998 on my website, Spector's Hockey, and I'm a contributing writer for Foxsports.com , The Hockey News and Eishockey News. I'm also a regular on The Faceoff Hockey Show and a frequent guest on "The Late Crew" on The Team 1200 Ottawa.
