In this week's edition of He Said/She Said, Bluegrass Lady and I argue whether we would send our kids to play basketball under Bobby Knight. As always, your comments and opinions are welcome.
Bobby Knight’s coaching legacy is undeniable. Last year, he became the winningest coach in college basketball history. He has led three University of Indiana teams to national titles. In 1975-76, he coached the last team to go undefeated for an entire season, an effort that seems more and more unattainable with time. Dating back to his first years coaching at Army in the 1960s, Knight has won an astonishing 71% of the games he has coached. In his over forty years of coaching at the highly competitive college level, the man known as ‘The General’ has won nearly 900 contests and his graduation rate is as high as anyone’s in the NCAA. He is a three-time national coach of the year and at a six-time Big Ten coach of the year. Needless to say, his resume speaks for itself.
Despite these accomplishments, in 2000, Bobby Knight was released from duty at the University of Indiana for his lengthy record of insubordination and physical altercation. The controversy surrounding Knight’s career is as noteworthy as his on-court success. Dating back nearly forty years, Knight has repeatedly been involved in acts of physical violence with police officers, students, players and fans. His tirades are as legendary as his coaching record.
He is probably most famous for his 1985 outburst where he tossed a chair clear across the court during a conference game against in-state rival Purdue. That incident, however, was only the tip of the iceberg. There was his famous 1988 interview with Connie Chung where he stated on-air that if rape were inevitable, why not lay back and enjoy it. In 1993, Knight kicked his son who played on the team. Later that season, he head butted another player during a timeout. In 1999, he was investigated for allegedly choking a man outside a local restaurant. In 2000, the University investigated Knight for choking a former player, Neil Reed. The list of Knight’s indiscretions presents a colorful rap sheet. After former I.U. President Myles Brand imposed a ‘zero tolerance’ policy against Knight, he was ultimately fired for grabbing a student that failed to “show him respect” by addressing him simply as “Knight.”
Knight’s disciplinarian mindset failed to attract local Indiana high school phenoms such as Shawn Kemp and Zach Randolph in a state where playing in Assembly Hall is a childhood dream. Top athletes simply refused to play for a madman and submit themselves to four years of brutality.
In the modern basketball landscape, players do not have to put up with that sort of physical or psychological abuse. Despite his coaching legacy, there are countless other coaches these days that can teach today’s youth the game without leaving strangle marks around their necks. Although Knight has more career victories than any other coach, Tubby Smith, Lute Olson, Bob Huggins, Jim Beoheim, John Calipari, Rick Pitino, Mark Few, Bruce Pearl, Mike Krzyzewski and Thad Matta are all active coaches with higher winning percentages. Billy Donovan and Roy Williams have successfully taught discipline and respect while winning the last three national championships without putting their hands on players or wearing them down mentally. Knight is unquestionably a basketball genius, but he doesn’t hold a monopoly on the wisdom required to reach the sport.
Despite not having coached there for seven years, Bob Knight is still a hero in Indiana. His name is legendary and synonymous with success. It is also, however, synonymous with rage. With the wide range of excellence in the coaching ranks today, it would be awfully hard to justify sending a child to play for a loose cannon like Knight. While the General has preached discipline over his forty years of coaching, it is actually his own lack of restraint that has tarnished his coaching legacy.
Nice post and a good read Rev. Loaded with a lot of facts and history. But you never answered your own question. Would you send your kid to play for bobby knight?
LSUFan, even after what your boy said about Dale Brown?
Bo, while I have the utmost respect for Coach Knight, if given the opportunity, there are countless other coaches, both old school and new, that can give my kid the opportunity to succeed, learn discipline and receive a quality education without being physically or psychologically beaten.
Speaking of beaten, I sure would like to see Boston take one of the next two in the Bronx.
Understandable. I have no problem being the underdog in these debates. It builds character.
I don't want to say the game has passed Knight by. That's probably too harsh of a statement. But I'd want guidance, tutelage and leadership out of my son's (or daughter's) coach, not the potential for violence.
There are effective ways to get your point across without having to resort to physical altercation.
Good job Rev. I'm at least 20 years away from sending a kid to college, and in the unlikely event that the son of a 5'8" Italian from Rhode Island was good enough to play D-1 hoops I'd try to steer him away from a Bobby Knight-type.
While Knight does have a history of turning out outstanding young men on and off the court, there are other coaches out there that produce the same quality of man without the needless antics. Coach K, the late Skip Prosser, Rick Barnes, and Al Skinner immediately come to mind. A coach does not need to be a bully to be tough. There are plenty of tough coaches (Geno Auriemma on the women's side) that are very demanding yet stay away from bullying their players.
Sure is, college and pro coaches actually. Two programs that are either unable to afford to keep their coaches (Barnes, Gillen, Pitino at PC) or unwilling to pay up (Skinner at URI). Not to mention all the former assistants (Bobby Gonzalez, Tim O'Shea) and players (Lenny Wilkens, John Thompson, Billy Donovan) that have gone on to bigger and better things.
I still maintain that letting Al Skinner walk was a bigger mistake for URI hoops than hiring Harrick.
Last edited by The_Return_of_Manrub on August 29th at 9:46 AM.
I'm don't know and am not going to look up how many young men have called Bobby Knight coach.
But the record is clear that in overwhelming numbers people tend to come out of that program as better than when they went in.
Society has tried to turn men in this country into a bunch of spineless wimps. Being on the receiving end of the worst Knight has to offer never gave anyone anything worse than a little owie.
Compare those coaches to Knight when they have taken over second or third tier programs. After about 1983 or so Knight never got the elite players for various reasons. Those all went to Roy Williams, Dean Smith, Coach K, etc, etc. Let's see how those guys would have fared with Knight's players since then. Let's see how far their winning percentage drops.
I'd definitley steer my kid to play for coach Knight before the money hungry Donovan or Pitino.
I would send him in a heartbeat. I knew one of his players when they won the NC, Joe Hillman. Joe loved Bobby Knight....most of them do love him. You send out a boy to Knight, he comes back a man.
Rev' Rhythm
There's no denying that he's one of the alltime greats. But as a person whose behavior can be bordering on oafish. He does leave a lot to be desired. And that's where most will have a problem with Knight. We all know that the vast majority of his students do end up graduating and that's to be commended. But I also want to know that the life lessons being learned are the one that'll make any student a good and productive citizen if nothing else !
I've a new post up titled Oh How The Mighty Have Fallen !
Let me know what you think as to the merits of the piece ?
Cobra Kai is evil and you know it. Knight isn't evil, just ornery.
Hypothetical- try to throw your allegiances aside for a second.
Say your kid has no chance at the NBA but he will play competitive college basketball for 4 years. Given these two choices- Do you send him to Knight or do you take the gamble and trust that Pitino or Donovan will stay with your kid all 4 years?
Wouldn't more damage be done to the kid who was promised by the coach that he would be with him thru all 4 years? I wouldn't trust Pitino, Donovan or any other coach who has proven they will bark for a few extra bucks and leave the kid in a heartbeat. Knight has stuck by his kids no matter what and has turned many lives around.
I think you have to factor in how the majority of Knight players respect and love him and are succeesful after their playing days are thru. That should be the most important part when deciding who will help lead your kid thru college.
I still wouldn't want to send my kid to a coach where I knew he'd run the risk of being choked or assaulted. Again, there's other ways of getting your point across and there are plenty of hardnose coaches out there that can the job done. And right now, Donovan's not going anywhere.
Good stuff Rev, I assume you have a complete scouting report done for Western Kentucky. Still working on Appalachian State film, I'm taking a long weekend to celebrate college football being back. I think it's a valid reason.
Hoit
Daniel san say long time he no have no lady. He want lady , Myiagi san. Where Daniel san can find lady ? He been waxing on , waxing off for long time and it hurt his wrists.
As with every other football-less summer weekend, this weekend will be spent sunnin', funnin' and drinkin' whiskey. Tebow will surprise some people this year.
You assume a Pitino or a Donovan would jump ship on his recruits, but is that any worse than having to leave your kids behind for being fired for your improprieties?
Great history here on Bobby, Rev, but I would not send my kids to be coached by the General even though I have two girls. George Patton was considered to be late in life a crazy man. His children have some story to tell about General Patton. Bobby Knight is, in my mind, in the same class. His ways of coaching are a thing of the past thus rendering him ineffective. No one wants to run the risk of having their son smacked in the face and humiliated on national television at the hands of the General. His last NCAA title with any team came in 1987 when Indiana beat Syracuse. He's had his time. He's done. He's a curmudgeon who needs to walk away from the game. A blogger wrote in a post yesterday how John Madden has overstayed his time in the broadcast both, well Bobby Knight has as well. Give me Coach K!
Hard to choose which is worse, but Knight wasn't given a choice to leave, that's the difference. Knight never had the intention of leaving those kids behind, Brand was looking for anything to boot him. It killed Knight to leave IU, he wasn't looking for a " change of scenery" or a " new challenge" like coaches who leave for new jobs spew out now.
Knight has loyalty if nothing else. I just can't say that about most coaches in the game right now, be it Beilein who bolted for U of M or Billy D who may still not know what he truly wants. I'd tell my kid loyalty is hard to find and to make that a factor when he decides what school to go to.
F.Y.I. You are one of my favorite people on this site to debate with. You make me think and give great counterpoints. Plus, you also have an unhealthy amount of Karate Kid knowledge. Kudos
You win this one. I spent my entire sports career with the exception of one coach cringing under the criticizm of a "bobby knight tyrant".
quick example: 9th grade. I was our best half miler. but I watched david guthrie our best 120 yd low hurdler who usually finished 2nd or 3rd in duals. I challenged david one day and beat him soundly. by 3 strides. Coach ambler's reaction? "Are you totally stupid? What if David got hurt? we need his 2nd or 3rd place points in the conference meet." god forbid you gave dusty a shot in the next dual and saw if he could add points?
I'll pass on sending a kid to play for Bobby.
There are too many other good coaches without the baggage. If my kid wanted to play for Bobby, I'd explain some facts and let him decide.
I can't see it. John Wooden was a discipliarian who not only won more % wise than Knight, he got the best players because the man had dignity.
coach K is reputed to have a foul mouth but he wins and he knows how to conduct himself in public.
You coach long enough and particulary in the eras of big 10 basketball that he did, which was hardly an elite conference outside of the years Indiana won, and then in what is really the "southwestern conference" I mean come on. the man is a loose cannon who is so overrated I can't stand him. I'd put my kid in a sack and toss him over a bridge and figure he had a better shot at becoming a man than under Knight.
Rev, as usual, good stuff. With that said, would you have thought this way if he was coach (and winning championships let's say)with your Florida boys? Had to throw that in my man, haha.
Damn, very nice points on both sides. But as I stated on BGL's attempt, it really comes down to the kid you are going to send to College. Most likely I would avoid The General, but if my kid needed some discipline, Mr. Knight would fit the bill. This was a tough argument either way, and I must say, very well done on both sides. Keep this stuff coming. As far as I'm concerned, this is the best blogging going on out here right now.
By the way, this brings up another interesting post you both might like. If you were a parent in Kentucky, and your son was the BEST QB in the country, and it came down to Kentucky or Florida, would you send your son to UK or UF?
How could you not let your son play for Coach Knight. Someone with that much influence and basketball knowledge. You would have to be crazy to say no to an opportunity like that.
Turn-ons: Gator national championships ; Sushi; NBA Playoffs; A Tribe Called Quest; Women; Jack Daniels; Women who drink Jack Daniels; Women who drink Jack Daniels while eating sushi; Women who dream of more Gator national championships while eating sushi and drinking Jack Daniels during basketball season, The Red Zone Report
Turn-offs: Waking up early; The inevitable media coverage Bobby Bowden will get when he finally retires; Drama; Prejudice; Chicken liver; Work of any sort
