Because I wanted to drop my 2 cents on the state of the NBA, I present to you the latest IM chat with my fellow NBA-savant Vic. This is lightly edited and a bit thin on the analysis side, but should provide you readers with some food for thought, provided you can understand our shorthand. As context, Vic and I have been going back and forth about Lamar Odom (he thinks Phil Jackson should be meowing a la Kwame Brown when LO walks by, I say he's just another guy a la Derrick Coleman, who doesn't like basketball as much as we'd like him to) and Kobe, as you will see. And by the way, J.A. Andade, I don't really think you're an ####. You just make me really, really angry when you say stuff like Manu Ginobili is more valuable than Tim Duncan in 2008 on the basis of one playoff game. Here's the transcript:

Guru: hey man, got your messages from earlier, odom should be killing the spurs
V: i saw a stat too
Guru: not playing with enough intensity
V: he's shooting like low 60s or high 50s from FT
for Playoffs.
Guru: he's got to play harder for LA to win
at least on the road
V: yeah man
2-11?
and 63% FT shooting in playoffs so far
2-11 you can have a really really horrible night
being guarded by a euro and all and blowing layups
but the FT shooting?
at first i thought it was a poor sample size
but he's shot 80+ in FTs the playoffs so far
its all mental with that guy
Guru: if you watch, he's driving right into traffic every time, flipping up a shot and trying to get a call, ironically
V: what's wierd to me is how streaky is statline looks
one night 8-12
next night 2-11
Guru: he was the man in game 2, it is odd
I think he's more important to the Lakers than Gasol in this series
Gasol has his hands full with Duncan
Odom needs to play well for them to win
they really shoulda lost game 1 also
V: yeah
gasol tried to play TD 1v1
didn't work
though Gasol has length
Guru: for spurs, TD needs to dominate like games 1 and 3
V: TD and one other player has to have big games
it was manu the other night
Guru: I did like how gasol attacked duncan though, he's got good touch on that jump hook
I was surprised to see that gasol had 18 shots, he blew a bunch of layups too
as for another big game, I dunno about that
they probably don't need 30 from any one player if the role players hit outside shots
they just need to make some threes to keep LA from collapsing on dribble penetration by the Spur guards
V: lakers have home court advantage
so if they hold par
and just win their home games
as they have been
they'll be fine
but i think its more likely than not
that this series goes to game 7
and it ends up being whether SA has enough gas to gut out yet another tough road game
Guru: perhaps
I like the spurs chances better in this series though
V: as compared to the NO series?
Guru: yeah, kobe aside, I think the hornets were a mentally tougher team then LA
V: as I’ve been saying, spurs are most capable of winning it all
question is
do they have enough gas?
spurs can take it to a higher level
lakers, aside from kobe, can’t
Guru: yeah, I guess the playoff this season have shown, you can't count out the old guys in SA
the play of Finley, Thomas, Horry has been the most suprising to me
I thought those guys were done
yet it seems that in every series, there's been a game where Finley has made some huge baskets at crunch time to turn the tide
game 1 phoenix, game 7 NO
but we'll see
V: yeah, they somehow muster up the energy
but i can totally see them running out of gas
these long series
they probably have the toughest road
Suns, NOs, lakers, east
talk about murderer's row
Guru: I was gonna say though, if Kobe's the Jordan-calibur player you think he is, LA could very well pull this series out
V: i don’t think he's jordan at all
i think he's the closest thing to jordan for all of the "next jordans"
small, but significant difference
Guru: that's a fairly non-controversial statement
V: well yeah
Guru: though the LeBron camp may take issue with it, but LeBron is too different I think
V: Lebron has more god-given talent than kobe
but it's comparing apples to oranges
with lebron vs. jordan, or lebron vs. kobe
Guru: I agree
lebron is a forward/supersize guard
more akin to magic and bird than jordan
V: yep
Guru: there was an interesting article today about the cavs, questioning whether the cavs #### offense is lebron's fault or Mike Brown's fault
I never thought of it that way, but perhaps Lebron is more to blame?
V: i dunno man
lebron desperately needs a playmaker
baron would actually be insane
for him
a playmaker PG would be optimal
i dont know if the offense is either one's fault
Z?
big ben?
wally world?
joe smith?
cavs aint exactly stocked with much more than role players and lebron
Guru: hey man, some of those guys are better than you'd think
V: lol
Guru: z and joe smith can both shoot and post
wally can hit open jumpers and move off of screens
I'm not saying that they're main options
but you could run some plays for them from time to time
V: wally and Z in particular
need the ball
someone like jamison for example
a scorer w/o needing to touch or dominate the ball
Guru: well, minnesota used to use wally like a quasi-reggie miller/rip hamilton, running him off of screens off the ball, that's how he was a 20ppg guy
V: yeah but reggie wasnt playing with a fool like lebron man
i guess what i'm saying is that lebron needs opportunistic "junk" scorers
hey dude put him on the hawks man
Guru: guys who don't need plays run for them
V: that'd be an awwwwesome team
lebron, Joe Johnson
and a bunch of athletes?
i'd be scared scared scared of that team
Guru: yeah, I think Lebron is better suited for an uptempo style too
the transition game is where he's truly unstoppable
but back to reality, I don't think that lets him off the hook, if indeed he is the reason, instead of the coaching staff, that the Cavs offense is so 1-dimensional
V: he's probably better off in a free wheeling motion offense, with room to improvise
i don't think its him or the staff
i think its the GM
Guru: personnel is a problem, but you think it's ok for him to play that way, even with the squad he has?
V: i dont know
for one
he's not a PG
he's a marvelously gifted passer
but he's probably much better off being a guy who dumps the ball off of a double team
rather than being the guy who tries to set things in motion to set up another
Guru: yeah, but what the article points out is that maybe he takes on primary playmaking duties because he wants to make all the decisions
because it's his team, etc
V: he's still the best PG they got right?
and really west, Z, wally, wallace
none of then are playmakers
west can dribble penetrate a bit, but i haven't seem him be a PG
Guru: maybe it is academic, because it's true, none of the cavs "pgs" are true playmakers, but isn't all you need out of those guys is to bring the ball up and get the team into it's offense?
that would allow lebron to work off of the ball a bit, set up and then kick out of double teams
V: Lebron is ultimately the Cavs PG man.
Guru: ok, so you're saying lebron has to have a true pg to win?
V: not at all
for one
Guru: lots of teams have won without that kind of true pg
V: they got the the championship round last year
with a bad team
second, they took a good celtics team to 7 games
i'm saying that Lebron is limited by not having a true PG beside him.
and he's being thrust into being the PG
now is that his fault? or is that because they dont have a true PG?
i say its more of the latter than the former
Guru: yeah, but being the main playmaker of your team doesn't mean that you have to go 1 on 5 every time down the floor
that's not what all of these teams that won without a conventional point guard has done
well, if you watch, what was happening was that invariably lebron would bring the ball up in the middle of the floor, the other guys would clear out and stand around, while lebron tried to take on the Celtics D by himself
V: well that's certainly not right
Guru: the C's forced him into a bad shot almost every time
V: that article just sounds like puffing up something small
and trying to create something out of nothing
fact 1 -cavs have a crappy lineup.
Guru: well, Mike brown gets criticized to hell for the cavs' predictable offense
V: fact 2 - i dont think anyone expected this current cav team to get anywhere very far
fact 3 - just taking celts to 7 games and beating pistons last year would be, my most accounts, overachieving
Guru: and if that is Lebron's fault, not the coaching staffs', well then that's interesting
V: i mean damn man
its like ignoring the big fat elephant in the room
get bron some HELP YOU FOOLS
i'd leave for jersey too
or NYC
####
cleveland has a cash cow and can't get their #### together?
if so, they don't deserve him
Guru: but I don't think lack of talent excuses playing the game the wrong way
I mean yeah, cavs are ultimately not as talented as the top teams in the L
V: i see it as just criticizing to criticize.
Guru: its valid, if that is what's going on
V: for all the cavs faults, that'd be the least of my worries
they have a host of problems
Guru: well, coaching may be one of them
V: poor defensive team, poor offensive team, short on talent, coaching
i'd address the talent one first
you fix that
i guaranfreakingtee you
the others will be improved too
wasn’t doc a much maligned coach until this years celts?
Guru: he still is maligned in circles, and rightfully so
V: probably would not have been
if the celts swept through the east
Guru: that cavs-celts series was one of the worst coached series I've seen in a while
V: he was getting many kudos
prior to the playoffs
Guru: they might have swept through, if he wasn't such a ####kup with his lineups
V: exactly
so now he's getting exposed
but it just goes to show
how much talent can hide
Guru: to the casual eye, yes
V: for one i think the casual eye
overrates this celtic team
the 66 wins was an aberration
Guru: they overachieved, because of Garnett's manic intensity, perhaps also because of the weakness of the east too
more because of intensity
V: they played playoff-type bball all year
Guru: on defense especially
V: but i remember when i first started watching them more seriously
towards the end of the season
and remarking dude
they're a jumpshooting team
who's going to take over in crunch?
they're going to rely on Js?
thats a huge flaw IMO
Guru: one thing with the celtics, their offense is rather disorganized
V: it's screen and pop
for the most part
Guru: if their guys are playing unselfishly, then they move the ball well and can get open looks from the perimeter
but in cavs series, a lot of guys started playing 1 on 1
and the whole thing bogged down
that's why ray allen has struggled so much
he got no touches in the cleveland series because pierce, rondo and KG were all getting their points essentially playing 1 on 1 or 2 on 2
Guru: #### detroit though...what the ####
no excuse for starting the game asleep in game 3
they were down 11-0 to start the game
V: I was very suprised to see that they had lost at home
i thought they were trying to make a statement by winning a game in boston
WHUPS
Guru: honestly, sheed and chauncey are the main problems
rip has played hard every game
tayshaun, I love him but on offense he has lamar odom syndrome
I think he even shot 2-11 for good measure
V: i am always surprised
every time he backs his man down and posts him up.
wtf?
is he like incredibly dense
or something and actually weighs 330
and doesn’t look him?
wtf?
Guru: hey man it works
that lefty hook is lethal
V: i'm surprised sometimes that he doesnt snap in half
Guru: prince is surprising, they always said he needed to put on weight
that was part of the reason he slipped in the draft
V: so far it doesn’t look like he has
he also wasn't your typical
run jump athlete
i recall him being a good shooter at KY
Guru: he might have put on a little bit of weight since uk days, I think he looks more toned now
yeah, he did post at UK
V: he's probably up to a what
Guru: he was a 4 in college
V: bulky 209 now?
Guru: something like that, 210-215
V: clearly a freight train in the post eh?
Guru: hahah
right
I guess maybe he's too agile to dislodge down there? it's hard to say
V: i dunno
perhaps
yeah so maybe he's too much of a threat to do a spin
and go around you
so guys are hesitant to lean on him too much?
i dunno
Guru: yeah, it's just frustrating to be a fan of this team sometimes
they really needed some change after last season's debacle
hopefully Flip has the balls to bench chauncey if he's playing like #### again in game 4
V: i heard he was injured
Guru: with stuckey around and playing so well, it's inexcusable to leave billups in and have him hurt the team
V: ah
how has billups been hurting the team
Guru: just being lackluster really
he has no explosion going to the basket, so he's reduced to being a jumpshooter
he allowed rondo to get into the lane on defense
1-6 shooting, 4 assists to 2 TOs
V: ouch
that hurts
Guru: just did not get it done
he still played 27 mins though
btw, tay did shoot 2-11
V: ouch
Guru: the odom comparison is pretty good actually, I always read stories about how flip is begging him to shoot more
V: i'm wondering if flip is too lackadaisacal
and not lighting a fire under their ####
Guru: he is, for this group
V: how about the challenge of beating a hyped up celtics team?
if you cant get up for that then i dunno
Guru: it sticks out, especially compared to larry brown
brown didn't give a ####, he would bench guys if they weren't playing well
it would #### off billups all the time, but they were more successful for it
V: yeah
brown does have a rep though
3 yrs then teams tune him out
V: so i dunno if even having him
would help this current team
Guru: tru dat
V: and to be honest, i'm confused as to why the pistons are so laissez faire about it.
they won one champsionship
Guru: but I wonder if they had more of a leader as a coach, it wouldn't make a difference
V: they are more like the buffalo bills
than the dallas cowboys
if i was the latter, i'd be cocky, but not really the former
Guru: the running analogy is that they're the atlanta braves of the nba
V: ah
yeah
close, but not always on top
Guru: yeah, it's stupid
like I said, it's coming from their "leaders" sheed and billups
Guru: even when they lose they're cocky
like right after they lost to the cavs, you have quotes like "we still feel we're the better team"
true perhaps, but wtf?
V: yeah
after getting booted in the playoffs
you'd think they'd be more humble...
if they had won like 2-3 in a row
then lost
i could see it
but it's been a while since they won
Guru: it's just sad really, those guys were in their mid-late 20's when they won their ring
they really coulda made a dynasty of this team
but they ####ked themselves with their arrogance
V: starting to look a bit old man
Guru: if you look, their playoff losses in each of the last 3 years can be traced to their attitude
yeah, they don't have much time left
V: after 3 yrs they have gotta say
ok maybe its US
Guru: exactly
you would think
Guru: actually, I wanted to go back to what we were discussing a while earlier
so you don't think Kobe's as good as jordan, but you still think he's one of those #1 guys who can carry a team to a championship, right?
is he in the same tier?
(as you imagine, I say no, based on his record up until now)
V: hehehe
i'm not surprised
it remains to be seen with kobe.
he certainly has a good shot this year
Guru: his stage is set
I don't think they beat the spurs without him having at least one of those crazy games
Guru: OMG, why do I even read espn anymore, I should really know better
Andade is a freaking #### to say ginobili is more important to the spurs than duncan
absolutely an ####
of course we knew that already, but damn
V: LOL
yeah man
i read that and i was like WHHHHAAA?
that's like saying kobe was more important than shaq
but are essential
but one is clearly more valuable than the other.
V: i'm gonna head out of the office
ttyl