I truely believe that if the Vikings had a young gun like Carson Palmer they would be the favorites to win the superbowl. They are all around but don't have a proven qb. Although Jackson did ok last year, I think we need Palmer because our defense isn't getting any younger. If they don't get a great qb they are wasting the excellent team they have together (except qb) I think T jack will be good for the future but we need to win and we need to win now! I am not a huge fan of Carson but he is young, proven, and a great qb.
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Pats vs. vikes (if they had a better qb) for the superbowl!!!!!!
One problem, pass defense!! No team can be considered the favorites to win with the 32nd ranked pass defense, at least not when all the other playoff contenders are passing juggernaughts (Saints, Packers, Cowboys) and thats not even including the AFC. Also, the Vikings top receiver was Bobby FREAKIN Wade, thats a far cry from Chad and TJ. I don't mean to attack the Vikings, but everyone including DR. Z has jumped on the bandwagon of a team that didn't make the playoffs last year and only added a pass rusher. Plus, the injury prone Adrian Peterson probably will be hurt at some point next year eliminating their playoff chances.
Pats- The pass defense looks much better this year. An extra year experience plust they added the thing that killed them last year. They had no pass rush. Jared Allen should be able to kill QB's all year and if he draws doubles then Kevin and PAt Williams are coming up the middle. The team has made all the necessary improvements to win. If they had a QB they would be everyone's favorites aside from maybe the Pats. Read up a little more on the team before you attack them.
Jared Allen is a terrific pass rusher as is Kevin Williams. However, Allen is also going to cause a chink in their rush defense's armour. He is absolutely atrocious against the run. He can provide them 14 or 15 sacks, but that is not the magic fix to a defense. Just because somebody acquires a pass rusher doesn't mean their pass defense problems will go away.
For example, last year the Seattle Seahawks added Patrick Kerney who had a very productive year for them with 14.5 sacks, but despite of this the Seahawks actually yielded more passing yards than they had the previous season.
So assuming that the Pass D will improve by the leaps and bounds it needs to for this dream scenario to be true is asinine. Even if their is a modest improvement they still cannot compete with explosive offenses who can score points in bunches, their team is not constructed to play that way. So I was merely arguing that even if this dream scenario were to be true the Vikings could be considered contenders, but a far cry from the prohibitive favorites. So next time you tell somebody to read up before they comment you shouldn't assume that offseason moves mean everything, as we all know improvement is earned with hard work, chemistry, and talent, not by some fancy new aquisition.
The vikings have improved in every aspect of the game except the qb position, which i believe T-Jack will have a breakthrough year. With the additions of madieu williams, bernard berrian, thomas tapeh, jared allen I belive they made a major upgrade from the players they had. All any team did last year was pass against the vikings, because they sure as HEII couldn't run past us. Our defense is among the best in the league and now that we have wr like berrian and rice who can actually catch the ball, alot of pressure will be taken off of T-Jack. All I have to say is that its gonna be a good season in viking territory
Pats,
alright here's the thing, we run a tampa 2 d, which requires pressure from the front the 4. Last season, and the season before that we couldn't generate a consistant rush with the front four, thus blitzing LB to rush the QB. Blitzing LB's takes them out of coverage, and teams with battle tested QB's can read the blitz, and dink underneath, thus making the safeties come up to cover from their what would normally be deep positions, which effectively takes you out of the Tampa 2, and leaves the potential for big plays in the middle (which Dwight Smith gave up a lot of). Madieu Williams is allegedly a better cover safety, and also is supposed to fit the Tampa 2 better. He already has more size than Smith, and I will gladly give up a few more rushing Yds for a consistant passrush from the d-line, which will allow the linebackers to drop in coverage, and keep the safeties in their tampa 2 deep coverage. I think we may be susceptible to draws and delays, and I look for teams to spread us out, and try to get more rushing yards out of our nickel and dime packages, but in our base package our front 7 as a whole are still strong enough to stuff the run consistantly. I look for us to jump into the mid to lower twenties in pass yds allowed, but jump into the top 10 in the more important stat, pts allowed. i believe we were 12th last season, but i could be wrong and i'm to lazy to look it up:-)
Another problem with the Vikings is the fact that their linebackers for the most part are too slow to run the Tampa 2 with the exception maybe of Leber. As far as Madieu Williams goes I know from watching him play is that he has concentration problems, not a good thing for a cover 2 safety, plus Darren Sharper grows slower everyday. As far as Allen goes I'm not really a fan of his. He plays with a blatant disreguard for the run, and is always out to get his, plus he is very inconsistent in applying pressure. He is often handled easily by stronger tackles. I have been playing defensive end for 10 years now so I feel I have a pretty good grasp of the position, and after watching him play in 3 or 4 games I can safely say I wouldn't rank him in the top 5 of DE's. I have no doubt the Vikings will make the playoffs, but this assumption that they have elevated to the top of the NFL is laughable. Even with these additions that defense is too inconsistent to match up with the Cowboys, Saints, they could probably beat the Seahawks because they run the West Coast Offense, but overall the Vikings just aren't good enough. A lot more goes into a consistent pass rush than 1 overpaid DE who sells out against the pass. Plus even with Allen the defense will still blitz because of Brad Childress's well documented love of blitz's. This will leave them suceptible to screen passes which the elite teams run extremely well.
I think a change at quarterback could have disaster written all over it. Would you put Jackson in the same league as Carson Palmer? I wouldn't ... and I'm not sure the Vikings aren't living in la-la land (more powerful quarterbacking not likely to yield any results or serve any fundamental purpose)! The best thing for the Vikes is just to play the hand that is dealt ... whatever that is ....
Now your changing the paramenters. No more Brad Childress so they could try to make a defense which better suits their personel now we're talking. However lets say your dream scenario comes true and Palmer ends up on the Vikings today. He probably wouldn't be able to get a grasp on the playbook, nor get any continuity with his receivers. Don't get me wrong I think the Vikings are good, but the Chargers, Pats, Colts, and Cowboys are all complete teams. The Vikings would still have to many questions and not enough answers. As far as that Seahawks thing goes I said the Vikes would beat them so ??
Pats,
This is fun let's continue.
Brad Childress's well documented love of blitzes has to do more with NOT GENERATING PASS-RUSH FROM THE D-LINE, blitzing out of necessity, and where is the documentation? I've never heard him say he goes in looking to blitz. If Childress has a love of blitzing as you put it why did he adopt the tampa 2 D, and not the blitz happy D phily runs. If he runs a tampa 2 to blitz all the time he should be fired amongst other reasons for being a ####. As far as slow linebackers go, Greenway and leber run 4.7 and 4,6 40's and ej is the slowest at 4.8. To put that in perpective Briggs ran a 4.8, and is considered one of the best in the business in a tampa 2 system. And you can't tell me bruschi and co for your pats are speed demons, and they seem to do just fine. linebacker coverage is more being in postion than speed. Whether you run tampa 2 or 3-4 or whatever. And Madieu may have concentration issues, but I can't say I wouldn't either if I played for the bengals:-) And finally, so Jared Allen sells out against the pass. Yeah haw what's the problem, that is what we need. Dwight Freeney sells out to rush the passer, baja-biamilla sells out to rush the passer, Kearse used too when he could still rush the passer. Maybe he get's handled every once in a while, all the games and film i've seen of him show a continuous motor that keeps on coming, and that usually pays off at some point in the game.
played DE for the last 10 yrs huh, i'm sure the Peewee league and high school teams gave you great experience
Last edited by scramblinfran on July 8th at 2:54 PM.
Pats, what I am trying to say about the seahawks is that you said they added a great defensive lineman patrick kerney comparing to the vikes adding jared allen. what I am trying to say is that the seahawks didn't have 2 probowlers on their defensive line already.(w/out kerney) So their(the vikings) pass rush d should be way better than last year.
Brad Childress in my opinion is a below average coach. Sure he may have blitzed out of neccessity last year, but he has historically shown the urge to gamble so why should we assume he will stop now. While speed isn't everything to a cover 2 system it sure is important, and while all the aforementioned linebackers are excellent run stoppers they are all average in pass coverage. In the Tampa 2 system one of the drawbacks is that the MLB often drops into deep central coverage, and frankly E.J. isn't fast enough to do so. Another cover 2 team the Colts have linebackers who fit into the scheme, and therefore allowed the fewest passing yards in the NFL. As you mentioned yes the Patriots linebackers are not great either, and were subsequently hurt by screen passes all year. As far as Allen is concerned that is just my opinion about him, I think he is wildly overrated. I think you will notice this year when he is pancaked repeatedly and opposing offenses break 20 yard runs on sweeps. Also, their cornerbacks are below average, I know they run a cover 2, but Cedric Griffin had 93 tackles REALLY!! 93! Thats unexcusable for any corner. So in response to this post saying that with Palmer the Vikings would be the favorites I have merely said that they are not there yet. This is a passing league and they were dead last in yards allowed last year by air. Despite what all you Vikings fans may think Allen isn't the entire answer. While I expect a modest improvement (maybe 24th in passing yards allowed) the Vikings aren't ready yet.
as I was saying #### you. jk. While I don't proclaim myself to be an expert I do know a lot of the nuances of the position. I like to watch the individual battles of the Tackles and DE's and often times I see flaws in their technique. Jared Allen just does not impress me that much. Schobel, Umenyiora, Taylor, Freeney, and others are all better in my opinion.
MJ,
I know its a different situation, but their are plenty of examples throughout NFL history of teams adding pass rushers and not experiencing an improvement in pass D. Who knows what will happen this year, but I am skeptical about the Vikings pass D.
D@mn patsrock07,
To hear you talk our beloved Vikings might as well not even show up for 2008. You mention the Chargers as an elite team and I agree. I also remember the Vikings crushing them last year and that was way Before the major upgrades. I also remember crushing the Giants at NY too and yes that also was before the upgrades. You remember the Giants right? they are the ones that beat your team and won the SB just in case you forgot. That said you still can't see the Vikings being a legitimate threat this year? I'll bet that koolaide you're drinking tells you that your team will go 19-0 this year for sure right? Good luck with that...
I read someone's post earlier that said the Vikings aren't a complete team like the Chargers, Pats, Colts, and Cowboys...how come none of those teams won the Super Bowl last year either? The Vikings were 8-8 last year and had a legitimate shot at 11-5 and we improved in many positions, so that's why you see so much optimism in us for this year. We are expecting 12-4 and if you don't like it, go to your own team's board and complain. We don't want to hear it.
We are Vikings fans and we choose to be positive about our team; and given the history of that team, it speaks volumes about our character. Go Vikings, just don't hurt 'em!!!!!!
Wow you Vikings fans are very passionate as I can tell. The problem is that the Vikings are not ready to contend for a title this year. Last year they ranked 32nd in pass defense and 28th or so in passing offense. As far as I am concerned that won't get it done in the playoffs. You can cite your Vikings beating the Bolts last year, but that was one game, two years ago the Dolphins beat the Pats 21-0 that didn't mean that they could be considered in the upper-eschelon of the NFL. I think for sure that the Vikings will make the playoffs in the NFC, but to predict a team that looked so impotent at times last year to win the title because they added a pass rusher is ludicrous. The Giants won last year against the Pats because they got hot at the right time, and caught a lot of lucky breaks. To assume that the same thing will happen again to a similar caliber team is imbecilic. Oh and by the way the Giants were and are a better team than the Vikings.
Atlanta
Chicago twice
San Diego
Oakland
Detroit
New York Giants
San Francisco
Notable Losses
Kansas City
Detroit
Dever
That resume isn't impressive the Vikings just simply aren't that good. 2 quality wins and three embarrasing losses, that looks like a superbowl contender right there.
Last edited by patsrock07 on July 12th at 11:41 AM.
PATSROCK I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU CANNOT SEE THE LIGHT ...THE GIANTS ACTUALLY WON THE SB LAST YEAR AND DALLAS HAS NOT WON A PLAY-OFF GAME IN 12 SEASONS..VIKS NEED A QB. .., NOT TO SCREW -UP IF THEY HAD SOMEONE OF FAVRE'S ABILITY OR PALMER'S . THET WOULD BACK UP THE TRUCK TO THE SUPER BOWL
The Vikings won 8 games against mediocre competition, and are completely 1 dimensional. If somebody can stop their running game, I.E. virtually all playoff teams sans a few have great run D's, then the Vikings are sunk. Face it Vikings fans your team is not ready yet!!!!!!!!
OK PATSROCK07 WHAT I AM TRYING 2 SAY WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS MADE OVER THE OFFSEASON AND IF THEY HAD A GREAT QB FOR EG CARSON PALMER THEY COULD POSSIBLY CONTEND FOR THE SUPERBOWL. WE ARENT TALKING ABOUT LAST YEAR I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR BUT IF WE WOULD GET A GOOD QB!!!!!!!!
QUIT BEING A DUFUS AND ACTUALLY READ WHAT I AM TRYING 2 SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok everyone asks about my name MJLJJKKB MJ=michael jordan LJ= lebron james JK= jason kidd KB= kobe bryant. when i opened this account (about 3 yrs ago idk) those were my fav bball players so there ya go
