For the better part of a dozen years, the Indiana Pacers were one of the elite teams in the Eastern Conference and a blueprint of success.
Whether it was Larry Bird, Larry Brown or Rick Carlisle, they entered virtually every season as one of the favorites in the East, and reached the conference finals six times – winning the conference title in 2000 before losing to the Lakers in the NBA Finals.
Donnie Walsh was one of the pre-eminent general managers in the league and a bona fide guru when it came to rebuilding while making the playoffs in the process. Even Conseco Fieldhouse, which opened in 1999, was unique in its combination of marvelous sightlines and the historic feel it radiated in the homeland of Indiana basketball. Success had become commonplace for owners Herb and Mel Simon, the mall magnates who saved the failing franchise from moving in 1983, and Conseco was the place to be in revitalized downtown Indy.
Now they are example of how quickly everything can deteriorate – from what figured to be just another emotional rivalry game against the Detroit Pistons in the Palace of Auburn Hills more than four years ago - to tonight’s game in the Palace that has virtually no meaning at all.
It’s the unsettling story of how they went from perennial contender with sellout crowds to their present state of 21-31 with flagging attendance. It is yet another warning shot to the rest of the league how quickly things can unravel. It happened in Portland before the Blazers reached their present encouraging state of reconstruction.
The Pacers have yet to find the antidote.
In case you’ve forgotten, this fall from grace all began with that flying cup of beer that precipitated the infamous brawl in the Palace on Nov. 19, 2004, and they’ve been sliding downhill ever since.
The Pacers were about to defeat the rival Pistons 97-82 when Pistons forward Ben Wallace shoved Pacers forward Ron Artest. Words were exchanged, a technical was called on Wallace and the mercurial Artest strangely laid on the scorer’s table, presumably to calm himself. A fan threw a cup of beer at him, and the place exploded.
Fights broke out everywhere in the building before police finally calmed the uprising. Nine players were suspended by the NBA, five of them Pacers. Artest (86), Stephen Jackson (30) and Jermaine O’Neal (15, reduced from 25) – all key players – were suspended a combined total of 131 games. Arrests were made out of the crowd. Lawsuits followed. The Pacers struggled from potential conference champs to 44-38. Somehow coach Rick Carlisle got them through the first round of the playoffs – but the dye had already been cast.
And they can’t seem to stop the bleeding.
Since the start of that 2004-05 season, the Pacers have a winning percentage of .473 entering tonight’s game at the Palace against Pistons. In the seven seasons prior to that they had won at a .625 clip. Fan reaction in Indianapolis to the team went downhill after the brawl and the attendance in their marvelous basketball cathedral has dropped more than 30 percent from consistent sellouts of more than 18,000 to last in the NBA at 12,314 as we pull into the All-Star break.
Bird is now in his fifth season as president of basketball operations, with Walsh bumped up to CEO and one personnel move after another has come up empty. Feeling compelled to part ways with Carlisle after last season, they surprised a lot of people by hiring harsh Jim O’Brien, who had some success for a couple of years before being run out of Boston, then had a tumultuous 2004-05 season before getting the boot in Philadelphia.
They hung on to Artest for a year before unloading him for Peja Stojakovic, who stunningly bolted as a free agent after less than a season with the Pacers. Fortunately, they coaxed the Hornets into a sign-and-trade, which gave the Pacers a trade exception large enough to regain popular and talented forward Al Harrington, who they had dealt for Jackson. Nonetheless, it also cost them their 2007 top pick. That deal didn’t work either, and ironically both Jackson and Harrington were part of an eight-player deal with Golden State that brought Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu to the Pacers.
Meanwhile, they held on to O’Neal and point guard Jamaal Tinsley far too long. O’Neal is three years past superstar status thanks to a variety of injuries – mostly knee-related – and he’s seriously damaged goods making an average of about $21 million over the next three seasons. He hasn’t played in a month and they can only hope he’s ready to go at some level after the All-Star weekend because his market value is virtually nil. Tinsley, who ran with Jackson off the court con####uously in the after-hours clubs, also is struggling physically and couldn’t be more unpopular with the fans. He’s missed six of the past nine games and won’t play tonight either.
Center David Harrison, their top pick in 2004, has been nothing but trouble on and off the floor. Marquis Daniels figured to give them lots of versatility after acquiring him for Dallas for Austin Croshere in 2006. Instead, he ended up being just another member of the Jackson and Tinsley crew in the heat of the night and an erratic performer on the floor.
Sure, they made a great draft pick in Danny Granger in 2005, a wonderfully talented all-around forward and the kind of good guy they sorely needed. Dunleavy is another positive, having his best season in the NBA and always a plus in the locker room and in the community. And yet, Murphy is erratic and injury prone, while Diogu still hasn’t come along as they had hoped. They remain optimistic about athletic 2006 top pick Shawne Williams, still a spot player at forward and only 22 (on Saturday). But what would have been the 10th overall pick in the talented 2007 draft was gone to Atlanta in reacquiring Harrington – and that hurt.
More recently, they’ve been very happy about what oft-traveled free agent Kareem Rush has brought off the bench shooting the 3-pointer and defensively. They also like what backup point guard Travis Diener does running the club, despite ankle problems. But let’s be honest … if they’re pumping up journeyman role players, it’s merely emblematic of how far they’ve fallen.
That would be 17.5 games behind the first place Pistons in the Central Division and two games ahead of the last place Bucks.
Maybe it’s just bad karma, maybe it’s just bad decisions by Bird. Whatever the case may be, since that notorious night four-plus years ago in the Palace, it’s been a nightmare. The good news is no matter what happens tonight, it has to be better than that.
the pacers jsut need to clean house. they started with artest and jackson but never finished. trade jermaine to whoever gives you the most expiring contracts, get rid of tinsley and harrison. who cares if you win 10 games all season, the team has and still is full of thugs, clean house
The Knicks are shopping Randolph and Curry... Send Jermaine to NY and get Randolph and maybe Marbury??? I don't know maybe zdeane is right and you get rid of everyone and start over from scratch. I just hope the Warriors don't make a trade with Chicago like I keep hearing. Warriors, please don't do anything to next year when Josh Smith is a free agent. Sorry for rambling.
Khan, This is a great article. The brawl is definitely where the slide began. Artest wanted out despite many fans supporting him (and Larry Bird).
He said it was because he could never make top$$$ playing behind Jermaine. Jermaine is overpaid and lacks leadership ability. What makes a leader? A hard work routine, an expertise like rebounding or 3 point shooting... We miss Reggie
The Pacers are trying to keep up an "act" of having a good image. Hey man, every team has the same kinds of players that get into things off the court, but they're not holding fire sales to get rid of those players. The point is, you don't dump ballers for role players. Artest, Jackson, and Harrington were ballers and all Larry got back was Dunleavy, Murphy, Diogu and nothing for Stojakovic leaving. Those are they types of moves that would have gotten any other GM fired. Larry is lucky he's Larry. Thats all I gotta say about that.
Honestly, it is sad where the Knicks and the Pacers have fallen to. They had such a good rivalry in the 90's that made for some exciting ball. Now, though, you almost don't even want to watch either team play. As a Knicks fan, I think that the Knicks really need to get rid of Thomas and Marbury. Get people who truly care about the team and not just themselves. Thomas has brought nothing but shame to NY and I would like to see the Knicks rid themselves of him completely, both as President and Coach.
WarriorsForever, I don't know if acquiring Marbury would be a good move for the Pacers, but I do think they should get rid of Jermaine and as zdeane343 said, start fresh.
Last edited by Q Hoffa on February 13th at 1:06 PM.
remember those good ol' days? we had reggie, o'neal, artest, travis best at point guard. O'Neal and reggie were in their primes. Jalen Rose was a terrific player. Those were the days Indy basketball was at its zenith. Indy b-ball fans resort to college basketball now, where we have 4 teams in the top 25.
I really hope bird can pull off some trades. start from scratch. don't try to get any superstars right now, build the team around a young star like Granger. Please bring the Pacers back to what they were. Please...
Artest, Jackson, and Harrington were ballers and all Larry got back was Dunleavy, Murphy, Diogu and nothing for Stojakovic leaving. Those are they types of moves that would have gotten any other GM fired."
You are absolutely correct in that statement and I couldn't agree with your more. Meanwhile, Stack Jack and big AL are runnin with the dubs and the mad scientist, Nelly over in here in the bay!
CLEAN UP!! Get rid of the trouble makers and bring in some young guys, the Pacers will be a better team in the future! Hopefully the future looks bright. Good Luck
This is a good article but as you can tell by the time of my posting I came to read it just when there was nothing else to read. And therein lies the story of the Pacers. Boring, doesn't matter to anyone outside Indy because they have no toughness oncourt, no character, no human interest, no heart and Larry Bird is vastly overrated as an executive. He's no better than Isiah in my view. Just not as colorful (no pun intended.)
they should have traded oneal a long time ago.hes not half the player he was 4 years ago.now hes hurt,doesnt care cause hes not on a good team,ala shaq.who in there right mind would trade for him.
The Pacers need to trade JO and Jamaal no question. I also think that Marquis should probably go although he has kept his nose clean after the nightclub incident with Jackson, but should be traded for good measure. It doesn't matter if we get anything good for them, I mean come on the last superstars that we traded we didnt get anything back so its a feeling we are used to. I don't think we will be rebuilding because its not like we have been playing with JO or Jamaal for awhile. Just get a young player or someone who wont get arrested or suspended every other day. (or injured). Trade them the fans will come!
It is amazing how one push from a sore losing BEN WALLACE can bring down a whole team. Let's not forget the real reason for that brawl in Detroit. Bird needs to move O'neil but I wouldn't move him for nothing in return and I wouldn't move him for a bad contract.
Henry Vick-"Get rid of the troublemakers?" That "clean house" attitude is why Pacers are where they are. How's Jackson and Harrington doing in G.S.? Wish you had those trouble makers back, don't ya?
This just tells on the front office of the Pacers...they are not as good at scouting talent and getting rid of baggage as they thought they were. Looks like they could use all those guys they got rid of to help Jermaine now. And having seen Jermaine grow up here in Columbia, SC, it hurts me to see what he's going through, especially getting this blame for being the anchor on this sinking ship. I hope Jermaine can maybe get to Cleveland or Detroit, just anywhere where he can possibly get his ring.
Last edited by Only1RealUSC on February 14th at 5:29 PM.
this article makes it sound like ben wallace started the fight when the entire world or whoever watched the game should know that that punk thug artest flagrantly fouled wallace. Then when wallace turned around to retaliate, he realized he bit off more than he could chew. bottom line... pacers are no longer a threat to anyone... not even college basketballs worst team.... i agree the only option they have left is just to clean house...
K I may be day behind but with this all being said the pacers are awlful. I have been a fan since about 1990 or so and have seen great wins and great losses when they lost the core back after the NBA Finals against the lakers was the beginning. The team then was built on leadership and experience. Now this team is build on bartops and wannabe players, this team has no character, no desire and no commitment. Now I am not saying they are all bad players but like it is said there is no I in team and if one cylinder fails in a car the engine will give. This team has fallin so far from the palace fight there is almost no cocievable way to turn it around or Donnie would have Larry I don't know made a better player then a coach and a better coach then he ever will be at gm. No offense Larry but should have stayed the course on the bench. I am totally disgusted with this tam I nearly pay no attention to it I remember when you'd here ole' Slick Leonard's "boom baby" still and thats the last good thing I remember about this. Jermaine O'neal you've let alot of peopl hee down along with Jamal "Thug Immortal" Tinsley what a waste of talent geez retire call it out do what you want join the Marines become something because you are not playing basketball here. absolutely pathetic I work sometimes with only 1 person and this is how the pacers are no team maybe 2 good players but no team.....pacers finish 31-51 2007-08 if lucky Bird Irish celtic.. maybe doubt it
Under Larry Bird's so-called Hall of Fame leadership he allowed this great franchise to sink to a all-time low.
Where are the Fire Larry Bird chants?
Where are the trades that a savy GM would make? Where is the pride that shuold be instilled in the players that Larry Legend is famous for?
Dee Rose & Rafter Rat you are correct Larry Bird Sucks as a GM period. If he wasn't who he is and the ground he walks on wasn't so worshipped he you would hear the chants that I mentioned earlier.
Kevin Mchale sucks, Danny Ainge sucks even worse..And if Bird was so loved by his old team mates how did Ainge end up with Kevin Garnett and not Bird...
I don't remember Larry having the Pacers in the hunt for Garnett. KG could have relieved alot of pressure off Oneal
Well now I'm ranting!!! It's just good to hear other folks shout out the many faults of Mr Legend. It's high time the free ride comes to an end for him and other so called GM's Isiah, Danny Ainge, Kevin Mchale, and Michael Jordan have recieved.
And for the record I'm a die hard Isiah Thomas fan.. but even I know he has at best estimated till the end of next season left to turn this thing around.
The same should hold true for the others..including Dannie (my ex teammate save my butt) Ainge
the pacers beat the snot of of A detriot squad that went seven games with the spurs that year and reggie was out for that game....they could have won it all that year...but after horrible trade after horrible non trades the pacers have become a joke..its sad that a perrenial power isn't goona be able to make a significant push for atleast 3-4 more years. Larry Bird was a great player n coach, but the guy has no eye for talent (Granger was a Walsch guy, even thought technically he was Birds pick). Bird has created no cap flexibility for years to come, the roster isn't competitive....Say what you want about trading tinsley and Oneal... we've had alot of good pieces since the brawl....but the biggest mistake has been keeping Bird in the driverseat..... Larry Lengend has to go
Bynum
Noah (2007 10th pick in the draft)
Granger
Dunleavy
Crittenton
Why Larry Bird insisted on Bynum/Odom for Oneal is beyond me. Lakers where offering Bynum/Kwame's expiring contract for Oneal. Why would Larry Bird not want that, that was an easy fix for Pacers! Why would you insist on dropping the bad contract of Murphy to the Lakers? You know the Lakers are not that stupid! Poor decison one after the other is what caused this current state of the Pacers, nothing to do with the brawl after four years!
Bynum, Noah, Granger and Crittenton are all excellent young players on and off the court to build a franchise.
You should just trade Oneal straight up for Lamar Odom, now! Odom is one of the good guys, he is only 28 years old. After next season, his contract expires you could either keep him or sign a free agent. But for crying out loud do soemthing with Oneal.
Odom/Shawne 4
Granger 3
Dunleavy/Rush 2
Trade Diogu for Kyle Lowry PG in Memphis. I am surprised Pacers are not doing anything! C'mon are you not watching what's happening in the West.
Pacers does not have a good team, you can't loose by shuffling your cards to find better young talent, you should have start rebuilding two years ago. What are you waiting for?
Celtics are back! Lakers are back! Blazers are coming back! What are you waiting for Pacers land? The East is so soft, lots of opportunity there! I can't stand Pacers are not doing anything!
BIRD WAS ONE OF THE GREAT PLAYERS. HE WAS A GOOD COACH BECAUSE HE WAS LARRY BIRD IN INDIANA. HE IS A LOUSY FRONT OFFICE GUY. COME ON, LETTING ARTEST BACK AFTER HE RUINED THE TEAM. A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL CANNOT BELIEVE BIRD'S LOSS OF INTEGRITY FOR THE GAME AFTER THAT DECISION. THE PACERS ARE GOING BACK TO BEING CELLER DWELLINERS, AND THUGS AT THAT. I REMEMBER WATCHING THEM WIN THE ABA CHAMPIONSHIP! BIRD AND ALL SHOULD GO. SO SAD. TOM LITTLEJOHN.
What the Pacers need to do is scrap it and start over. Draft the entire Butler University senior class, for starters. That way we get players who will work hard, play excellent defense and shoot the ball like nobody's business. Factor in the hometown hero draw, and that's about the only way the Pacers will ever get anywhere near Millertime again anytime soon.
Oh, this article kills me but it's the truth. We just totally unraveled after the incident. The Sacto trade was worthless, the Golden State trade was pretty worthless (Dunleavy is alright) and our drafts have been worthless for the last few years. I've been reduced to watching my "Best Pacers Game DVD" to keep my spirits up. I don't think the problem is talent but I the front office needs to be more instinctive on potential moves. This is exactly the case with JO. We had the potential to move him over the summer for some good players and we nixed it. Now I'm not sure we could trade him straight up for Devean George (exageration) but you catch my drift. We need to keep Granger, Rush, and Williams, trade JO, Tinsley, and Harrison, and look to move Dunleavy to the sixth spot as a spark plug. Then, draft a francise PG, a true center ala Rik Smits with better defense (Roy Hibbert maybe) and find some Dale Davis style horses. The great thing about the Eastern Conference is that if you can swing 6 to 10 games you're right back in the playoffs. Lastly, I want to throw props to my boy Rik Smits. If you watch Game 6 of 1998 vs. the Bulls, Reggie hit the shot but Rik was murderin boys in that game. I miss Smits.
Being a Pistons fan all my life, I think I speak for all of us. We miss that rivalery. The Pacers need to bring in a veteran who can lead the team. And make them play as a team
This article is flat out wrong. We went through a lot of turmoil after the brawl, and everything went downhill from there, but after the brawl, we still pulled together to make the playoffs, something no one really expected us to do. It wasn't the brawl that killed us. It's the fact that we lost the greatest Pacers player and greatest 3-point shooter of all time, Reggie Miller.
He was our team leader. After the brawl, Reggie acted as a leader and held the team together. That man was LOVED by Indiana. He kept our team together, he was the catalyst to make us believe. No matter how down we were in a playoff game, I always felt that with the ball in Reggie's hands, we still had a chance to win it.
We didn't fall apart because of the brawl, we fell apart because we lost Reggie.
I miss Reggie...
Last edited by Scales on February 16th at 1:48 PM.
I agree Larry no eye for talent fire him. I think Granger will become the leader and a all-star so clean up and build around him. Also Trade Jo and Tinsley I like Dunleavy as a good peace around Granger. Pacers if you guys do this I am almost certian it will payoff in the long run.
I'm a former sportswriter who covered the Pacers several times a year for over a decade. The Pacers do need to clean house. They should keep their younger guys (Dunleavy, Granger, Williams, Rush and Diogu)and get whatever they can get for the rest. Tinsley and O'Neil are just malingerers in my opinion. They're not warriors for sure (and that's with a lower case "w"). Golden State can have both of them and they can reunite with Harrington and Jackson as far as I am concerned. Both of these guys come up with mysterious injuries that take three or four times longer to heal than the average. Think about it, if you're a player with a guaranteed contract and you do not want to play, tell the trainer you have a sore "hammy". You can set on the bench in street clothes, skip practice to rehab and still get your paycheck. Tinsley and O'Neal have been doing this for years. When I saw the fight four years ago I told everybody that it will take the Pacers five years to recover (I was being optimistic it looks like now).
Sorry Folks but this is not a quick fix. In order to trade, you have to have something other teams want. Our only tradable asset is out indefinately with a "bone bruise" on his knee. No one wants Tinsley and his overblown contract, no one will take a chance on J.O. and his $21 mil contract. The only piece of the puzzle that people want is Granger, and our rebuilding needs to be done around him.
Larry Bird is totally resonsible for this mess. The first move he made as GM was drafting Tinsley. You might remember the guy drafted the very next pick.........Tony Parker! Someone didn't do his homework! Then a couple of years ago he went to Europe scouting and came back with this can't miss prospect......Sarunas Jasakevicious. What a find he was!!! The only good personnel move he has made was drafting Granger. The only way this team will improve and become a contender again, is unfortunately through the draft. We have a team full of ridiculously high contracts for mediocre players, that no one will want until they are expiring. Then Larry trades them, instead of clearing cap space for us. (i.e. Austin Croshere and his $8 mil. expiring contract for Marquis Daniels and his bloated long term contract)
And just to disagree with some of the other posts, Larry really wasn't that great of a coach either. That was Larry Brown's Team and Mark Jackson and Reggie Miller ran that team. Heck, I could've coached them to a winning record!
Sure glad the Lakers lost interest in the much speculated trade for O'Neal....L.A. already had Kwame Brown, who thankfully has moved on....and Bird and Kevin McHale, too bad they couldn't transfer their talent on the court to the front office....my vote goes to Mitch Kupchak for NBA Exec of the Year....
Just another excuse. They suck because their head office is full of retards who don't know how to run a team. They brawl was a one maybe 2 season thing. They need to man up and get someone who knows how to run a team
and what exactly was bird supposed to get for those thugs ge traded?you don't think anyone was going to give them equal value in return did you?so what he was supposed to hang onto these bozos and watch them continue to shoot up indy after games? sure they are playing great for their teams now but it is just a matter of time before before artest goes off or jackson gets in trouble again. I would rather pay money to see these role players than those thugs. and the sooner they get rid of tinsly the better even if all they get another teams ballboy for him,acts like a punk and is always hurt! and they should not trade oniel just because he wants one,guranteed he gets healthy as soon as he leaves town.
Meanwhile, they held on to O’Neal and point guard Jamaal Tinsley far too long. O’Neal is three years past superstar status thanks to a variety of injuries – mostly knee-related – and he’s seriously damaged goods making an average of about $21 million over the next three seasons. He hasn’t played in a month and they can only hope he’s ready to go at some level after the All-Star weekend because his market value is virtually nil. Tinsley, who ran with Jackson off the court con
