If we’re to believe the Big Buzz … he’s the biggest and most expensive package of damaged goods ever on the NBA trade market and on the verge of being dealt.
He is Shaquille O’Neal, and if it’s true that the Phoenix Suns are ready and willing to acquire the fading Miami Heat center in exchange for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks, the Western Conference race just got infinitely more interesting despite the physical problems of the 7-1 O’Neal, who turns 36 next month.
Superficially, it will be a big relief for Heat superstar guard Dwyane Wade to get Marion for help as opposed to the terminally injured O’Neal – and Banks will help their sad point guard situation some. But the story here is about how O’Neal – The Big Question Mark – has any trade value at all as the Feb. 21 trade deadline comes upon us.
Sure, the Suns figure to have a rapidly closing window with the aging of point guard Steve Nash and Grant Hill, plus O’Neal would allow Amare Stoudemire to match up at his more natural power forward position. The move would also presumably allow the Suns to play both their natural speed game and in the halfcourt against the likes of the Spurs, Jazz, Nuggets and Rockets among others in the West.
Then again, that’s assuming a lot … such as whether or not O’Neal can actually fit through the window; and just what could the criteria be for him to pass his physical – considering the hip, knee and ankle problems that have manifested over the years.
So before we get too carried away with this, let’s get realistic for a moment about the Big Fella. He has missed 14 games for the woebegone 9-37 Heat and coach Pat Riley this season and averaged less than 50 games over the previous two seasons.
His 325-pound plus body is suffering the consequences of his 16-year career with hip, knee and ankle problems that have rendered him just a shadow of his former self – although it is that very large shadow that still makes him attractive to the Suns to take a big rip at the wide open 2008 title. Obviously the feeling is if they can prop him up for minor minutes until late in the season, he could be the deciding factor in the playoffs.
Although he has missed so many games, and is averaging a career-low 28.5 minutes more because of foul trouble than anything else, O’Neal still is averaging 14.2 points, 7.8 rebounds and 1.66 blocks – all of which pales is comparison to his career averages of 25.6 points, 11.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks. Nonetheless, just his sheer physical presence is a big factor in every game, and if you put him in the middle of a team like the Suns, they become that much more frightening in the big picture – on paper.
Outside of the Suns, would anybody else have taken a deal for Shaq seriously?
Mavericks owner Mark Cuban has always been intrigued by the possibility of adding him to the middle … how about Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse and Erick Dampier for Shaq?
And what about the Nets, so intent on dealing Jason Kidd? Would a package of Kidd, Josh Boone or Sean Williams and Boki Nachbar – with Ricky Davis coming back with O’Neal to make the salaries work, be intriguing to both teams?
LeBron James and the Cavs need something else, but O’Neal certainly isn’t it.
The Denver Nuggets, as always, are working the phones hard - but primarily to see if they can get a point guard, such as Kidd or Sam Cassell. They certainly wouldn’t be better off gambling on the Big Question Mark than having Marcus Camby, the reigning defensive player of the year and Kenyon Martin, who is remarkably getting closer every day to being all the way back from a second microfracture surgery.
Everyone likes to look at the Chicago Bulls, because they have failed so miserably this season and they have a slew of young players who aren’t quite cutting it. If so inclined, they can easily throw Ben Wallace’s contract in there with Thabo Sefolosha and either Ben Gordon or Kirk Hinrich. Does that make any sense for the Bulls to get 2½ seasons of Shaq? He’d be the ultimate low-post presence they haven’t had, however diminished his movement may be – but would that make them serious contenders? That would be a big risk, although they’d still have Hinrich or Gordon, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni. They would be a lot more formidable, and Gordon, Wallace and Sefolosha make the Heat much better as well – provided the Heat can agree to a contract with Gordon.
But it isn’t likely owner Jerry Reinsdorf would commit that $50 million to O’Neal through 2010. In fact, it doesn’t make sense for anybody … almost.
And that brings us back to the Suns, who have had issues with the 29-year-old Marion for years, both in the locker room and over money. Now he wants an extension that will pay him in the $20 million range per season, when the $17 million per he’s making over the next two seasons is a stretch. He has also very often been a disappointment in the postseason offensively, which has hurt them in big games.
On the other hand, there are those who believe he is the lightning rod for the success because he is the guy who gets the loose ball, comes up with the steal, blocks shots and runs the floor better than anyone else on the team.
And they almost won it last season, so is it worth the gamble with quasi-Shaq?
Realistically it makes more sense for the Suns than other teams, if only because Marion’s head and mouth may no longer be worth the internal aggravation And the Suns won’t have to play O’Neal big minutes, just enough to indoctrinate him into the halfcourt offense.
They have reportedly brought in the Big Question Mark for their medical team and the rest of the big shots in the organization to take a good look at his physical condition. But you’d have to think if they peer too closely, it’s only logical they’ll find that to deal a talented young player such as Marion and commit the nearly $10 million left of his contract this season and $20 million in each of the next two years is really a shot in the dark for a guy obviously on his last legs – despite their obvious belief that this is their best chance for a title – which would be O’Neal’s fifth.
The logic is if nothing else they’ve found on the market for Marion is attractive and they have to pay him about the same money as O’Neal, owner Robert Sarver figures it’s worth the risk. That’s a tough call, but it’s his money.
Suns trading for O'neal???,....kill it before it happens,...not a very good idea, I may be wrong,..Shaq may get a sec. wind in PHX atmosphere,..trades around the league looks good, but PHX Suns?,..not good,..you are in great position of your games. and the trade is going to be your down fall,.....
Picking up Shaq is obviously a gamble, but nobody knows the future w/certainty. This trade could end up resulting in an NBA-title for Phoenix this year & people would look back at this whole acquisition and say, "WOW - the Suns got a steal for Shaquille O'Neal". Let's all just sit back & relax. I enjoy watching business-transactions when there is risk.
I think the Suns on an act of desperation are trying to see how they will match up against the Lakers now that they have Gasol and Bynum. If this move is made I think the Suns are as good as DEAD. I will always love Shaq and what he did for the Lakers but he is not the same player anymore. he Suns would be better off asking the Bulls for Wallace, or Indiana for O'neal, or even the Kings for Artest. Someone that can run with the Suns, Shaq wont be able to hang.
Hey what the heck.Give it a shot.Everyone doesn't think we can win with the team we have(with the best record in the west) , so that doesn't change their talk now.
But you have try and believe me , being a Suns fan since the very beginning,I've seen alot of trades that tried,good or bad.
But just think how long it took the Celtics to be good again after the Bird/McHale/Parrish teams because they wouldn't try a trade to keep them on top and competitive.
You just have to try, so let's see how it goes.
PHX-
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE SMARTEST NBA MOVES I HAVE EVER SEEN.THIS IS BETTER THAN SAM BOWIE OVER MICHEAL JORDAN.STEVE KER STILL WANTS SAN ANTONIO TO SUCCEED.
LOVE--SPUR FAN
P.S.--WE WOULD DO HORRY FOR STOUDAMIRE--HUH-HUH-
On surface this is a steal for the Heat. Shaq is not close to the player he was even two years ago and probably just needs to retire. However, Shaq won't have to worry about double teams in Pheonix, Nash will control the game and Shaq will see alot more open dunks then in Miami. If he can just pick it up on the D for good stetches in a game and stay healthy until the playoffs, well the Suns might have a chance then.
The Lakers are looking like a true front runner to take it all. They have 4 players at 6-11 and taller and they can play. The Suns would have no chance against them now in their current state, not matter how good Marion is.
The Suns are playing for this year, becuase the future is not looking bright.
trading for shaq may be a gamble and expensive, but hey hes won everywhere hes been. if the suns trade for him and win this year or next year, isnt the trade a successful one?
moab - that was good insight. I agree that the Suns are thinking about right now and not 2-3 years from now. If and its one heck of an IF, if Shaq can get and stay healthy the Suns have a shot but I still don't think they'll match up well with the Lakers now. Bynum at 100% is better than Shaq now because he can move his feet and Shaq will be fouling out regulary now.
zdeane343 - Shaq has not won a Championship every where he's been. He won in LA and Miami he lost in Orlando.
Big Suns fan and this I think is a terrible move for them. All I can see him doing at this point is slowing down the run and gun offense that has made them what they are. If he was somehow a big prescence on D or something that would be different but now all he is is big. Marion fits the system perfectly. I agree with the previous commentary, if you want a big man go get Ben Wallace or Jermaine Oneal (though I think he is hurt).
even with the trade the uns will have the same amount of championchips they had last year when its all said and done. ZERO! LAKERS BABY. THE DYNASTY CONTINUES
I for one don't care where Shaq goes. He's been washed up since he left the Lakers. The 2006 championship he "won" was not because of Shaq. The Heat proved time and again that they were a better team when Zo was in the lineup.
He provided defense, hustle and enthusiasm, something the Big Burrito never has had.
I would rather he stay in Miami. I like seeing him in a losers uniform.
Suns are not in a position to win the championship this year without a big man in the middle. They are slower, more inconsistent in scoring, and have less of a bench than previous years. Shaq is a ####, but he may be the missing piece the Suns have needed in the playoffs. Let's face it, this is the last year the Suns will be contenders for a while...may as well risk it.
I can't beleive Phoenix is this desperate! I loved Shaq when he was a healthy, diminant Laker, but now he's always injured, much slower, and "the Big Embarassment." This signals the end for Phoenix. Lakers will dominate their scared western foes in the playoffs!
shaq fu back in the west conference...kerr has realized that the run and gun will not win championships if you run that offense full time in teh playoffs...shaq plays 20 mins/game gives you 15 pts and will allow the suns to get their legs back under them to finish games with consistency in the playoffs...great move in my opinion
The deal is pretty much done except for Shaq being able to pass his physical. So for those Sun's fans that don't want this to happen they should hope that Shaq can't pass his physical. Anyways, this could turn out good for both Shaq and the Suns. I mean you guys have pretty good perimeter shooters and with Amare playing the PF spot it would give Shaq more one on one situations. As for D, well he not the Shaq of his youth but he still clogs that lanes with that big frame and with a young Amare, it should help Shaq down in the paint. I'm actually a Laker guy but I do think this trade may end up helping both Shaq and the Suns.
I understand fully why the Suns would make this trade. They fully believe that they cannot win a championship as currently constructed (most people agree). With Nash being 34 and showing minor signs of slowing, they believe that they need to make a move. Question is, what move?
The answer to that lies in the answer to the question: what is wrong with us? The clear answer is size, post defense, and post offense (to a lesser degree in my opinion).
Next, you have to assess who would address those issues, and which of those players is available for an acceptable cost. Teams do not give away tall, talented post players (except for Memphis, and they are plum out of them). The Suns have clearly been willing to part with Sean Marion for a while, and not been willing to part with Amare.
So, who could the Suns have aquired for Marion that would addess their needs? With his contract, attitude, and need for a dominant point guard/penetrator to be effective, any of the top young big men are out of the question. Can you even imagine someone like the Clips giving up Kaman for Marion? No. Ben Wallace? Sure. Eddie Curry? Perhaps, but he doesnt address defense or rebounding.
As strange as it sounds, Shaq has the most upside of any POSSIBLE acquisitions. He is 20 lbs, a healthy hip, and a new attitude away from being a major contributor.
So, credit Kerr for having the guts and honesty to evaluate his team and make a bold move. Could it backfire? Sure, but if you're convinced that you're not going to win a championship as you are, why not at least try?
I dont see this helping the Suns when they play the Spurs or Lakers. The fact is they will still have to double team cause Timmy will take him away from the basket and bank it off the glass or drive around him and Amare cant handle Gasol or Bynum by himself. If they want this to work they need to start barbosa, hill, shaq, stoudmire,and diaw and make this a rotating defensive team like the Spurs Jazz and Lakers. Nash lets his man by eveytime down the court and gets his big guys in foul trouble. He gives up just as much as he supplies. Look at the length and atletiscim in the 5 i mentiond. Thats pretty dang scary! And criscanuck you said it would change what they have become and what exactly is that? The Globetroters of the NBA all show and no rings! Get rid of Nash and play D
I'm not sure why most think Phoenix loses so badly in this trade. If Marion were a consummate team player I would buy into that argument a little more. Marion needs to go, and his salary means they are going to have to take back another big name player. There are a few of those available, (Ben Wallace, J. O'Neal, Jason Kidd). Chicago is not going to take back Marion for Wallace when they are already fairly stacked at his position. They dont want to get rid of Big Ben that bad. Indiana will look for younger players in exchange for Jermaine O'Neal- thats why he's still there. And trading back for Jason Kidd makes absolutely no sense. So, you have two problems- 1) You need to get rid of a locker room cancer who's averaging career-low numbers, 2) Trading him for a point guard, shooting guard or power forward doesn't make much sense 3) You need to create some sort of offense and defense to compete with the teams in the West who have bigs- like San Antonio and L.A. There's a hall of fame center available who not only brings 15 points and 7 boards a game- much better than 85% of NBA centers, but also brings a ton of experience, 4 NBA rings, and sheer size and intimidation to your paint. Plus, you are only paying him for 2 more years, the last of which he will be the most desired expiring contract in NBA history if he's still averaging even 12 points a block and a few boards a game. I hate to break it to you die hard Phoenix fans- (I like them too) the Suns are not going to win a championship with their current roster. This year, with LA, NO improving and the Spurs still out ther
This may or may not work for either team, but how great is it for the NBA? I mean, who is the favorite to win it all? How cool will the playoffs be? I would not be shocked if San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, LA Lakers, Utah, New Orleans, Boston, or Detroit hangs a banner... What a season...
Marion needs to go. He's certain to opt out after this season and not resign, so the Suns get nada for him. Throw in the fact that the Lakers already give us problems and they add Gasol . . . no way we beat them in the playoffs. And we still haven't figured out the Spurs quite yet, even without Parker. We can beat up on the East with the best of them, but we have to get through the West to win the prize. Can't get there giving up 20 offensive boards a game, and Stoudemire unable to guard the post again the West's bigs.
A big gamble, but look for Shaq to play much better for the first place Suns than the last place Heat. Also, look for him to slim down and be more injury free next year. See Grant Hill for evidence.
Apparently you guys have no idea about basketball. If Shaq gets traded to the suns they will autpmatically become the team to beat in the playoffs. The last 2 years the suns haven't been able to win it all mainly because they don't have a big man to compete in the playoffs. They never had that inside presence and with Shaq they will dominate the inside. Can you say the best front court in basketball immediately. Seeing as Shaq doesn't even make that much more than Marion and he is signed for 2 more years I think the suns can realistically win the next 3 years.
Shaq aint the Shaq of old granted... But simple logic give him shooters and there is no double team.. Mentor Amare Stoudimire and make him even more of a beast.. ShaQ in one on one situations is optimal for him and the Suns.. In Miami there are not enough Perimeter threats!!! GraNt Hill going to Phoenix was Supposed to be Bad oops thats worked out pretty gud... Wats up with all this Bynum ####!!! For Real Dwqight Howard Greg Oden thats the NBA Bigs of the future.. Bynum Watch out Mike Beasely is coming nect year to... Bynum will never be what Shaq was to LA but the thing is he doesnt have to be now with Kobe who is the Best till Bron can get his Jumper straightened out and why do you think they brought in Pau Gasol not cause Bynum is the the Next Shaq or Better!!! he's more of an Zydrunas Illgukles!!!
One last thing, Marion's numbers are down due to the production from the 3-spot via Hill (and Diaw more recently). With Marion gone, look for Hill to pick up more scoring. Who do you think is the better combo for the Suns . . . James Jones and Marion . . . or . . . Grant Hill and Shaq? Hill can do nearly everything that Marion can, but less defense but more assists. Shaq totally crushes James Jones in scoring, rebounds, blocked shots and assists (yes the big fella can really pass). Add in that Amare will double his blocked shots and increase his rebounds because he will no longer be guarding the 7 footer on the other team . . . the Suns will do fine . . but it will take some transition, and Shaq is going to have to be reasonably healthy.
this would be a horrible trade. shaq was great, but he's done. suns wouldnt even make it out of 1st round w shaq, he cant run with them. with marion they have a better chance of winning a title. they'd be better off w jermaine o'neal, whos injured alot, but at least he could run up and down the court for more then 3 minutes.
U people obviously just dont get it, even in his current state shaq makes the suns serious contenders in the west. actually the favs. imagine what nash will do to elevate his game. plus now stoudemire will run wild never dealing with another double team. oneal will see twice as many open looks and dunks now with nash dishin him dimes. marion benefited from it for years we'll see how good he is now with out him. as a laker fan this is the worst thing that could have happened.
Do suns fans want that trade? As a Laker fan I honestly dont care, I truly believe Shaq has been dogging it since Riley put together this squad in hopes of getting traded, and don't think he is as washed up as he looks. His numbers would be good in phoenix, I just dont think Dantoni is capable of switching the offense to a more traditional set, even though with Shaq, Amare, and Grant Hill he would have the right blend if healthy to play that style of ball, which is the only style that wins the championship. I know Nash wants him or this wouldnt even be a possibility, he is smart enough to play a more even tempo'd style of ball, and would himself get more open looks by having a double post, the more I think about it the more I don't want it to happen. As it stands right now the only way phoenix wins big games is shooting the lights out from three point range, with a healthy shaq and hill they could be more dangerous to a Gasol and Bynum stocked Laker squad.
I'm sorry to say but Shaq will not make much of a difference to the Suns. The Suns style of gameplay is a fastbreak, score as many as you can before the starters get tired scheme. I dont...well can't see Shaq running up and down that court like he used to back in the Orlando/LA seasons. Poor deal for Suns!
Anytime you get a player with a smile like Shaq's, a personality like Shaq's, a work for the community outlook like Shaq's plus the man can play a little basketball, then you have a WINNER!!!
Last edited by white61water on February 6th at 11:09 AM.
JUST THE KIND OF STORY LINE THAT CHISELS ONES NAME INTO THE WALLS OF IMMORTALITY. IF KOBE HAD PRAYED SINCE CHILDHOOD FOR THIS SCENARIO IT COULDNT WORK OUT BETTER. KOBE AND THE LAKERS GET TO KICK THE SUNS AZZZ WITH THE BIG CHERRY ON TOP. GOOD THING FOR SHAQ HE APOLOGIZED TO KOBE, SO ITS NOT GOING TO BE AS BAD AS COULD BE. THEN AGAIN HE IS ON THOSE P**UNK AZZZZZ SUNS SO MAYBE NOT. WHERE ARE ALL THE KOBE HATERS AT ANYWAY. THERE WERE A LOT OF YOU IN PHOENIX THE LAST 2 YEARS. NOW THAT DESSERT HOTBOX IS ON HUSH BIGTIME! THATS BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE BIG AZZZZ KICKIN IS COMIN, AND YOUVE GOT TO PAY FOR ALL THE WOLF TICKETS YOU BOUGHT. L.A. IS WAITIN BABY AND WE DIDNT APPRECIATE ALL THE SHIZNIT TALKIN. NOW SITDOWN AND SHUT UP YOU WILL GET SERVED
Even if Shaq can't help all that much, who says Marion will be back at the end of this year? He's gonna opt out anyway, so they might as well get somethin for him while they can.
Yesterday I posted an entry damning this deal as a horrible one but now I had some time to think about it. The Suns are pretty much the same team that didn't get it done the last 3 years after fabulous regular seasons. Main difference with last year is no Kurt Thomas and our magician PG is a year older.No doubt that the Lakers looked like a better team with the emergence of Bynum then they have been the last 3 years and the addition of Gasol will make them better yet. Spurs and Mavs have the same nucleus and remain powerhouses. Maybe we do have to do something. Shaq isn't even close to his Diesel self anymore ,all true. But over the last years our playoff losses all happened when we got butchered in the paint AND when Marion wasn't scoring. Is Shaq the guy at least for this year? Maybe, maybe not but my vote is changing from no way to give it a shot. We'll see if we'll be the champions this year or if this will go down as the worst deal in history. I can't see us win it all with the Status Quo.
First of all....why does everyone think the Lakers are instant favorites? I hope it's just a bunch of LA fans...And if they can keep Marion, this could work well for the Heat. And if he's (somewhat)healthy you just watch and see how Pheonix will utilize the Daddy. But IF is the biggest word in the world so...we shall see. Who thought the Giants would win? Shut your mouths and wait.
I think it is so funny how obsessed Laker fans are with Kobe. This article has nothing to do with Kobe or the Lakers yet people keep bringing them up. The truth is since Shaq left the lakers he got a title and Kobe hasn't. Kobe isn't going to get one this year either, this trade won't change that. The Lakers won't make it past the second round. If they did somehow make it the the champoinships they couldn't be the Pistons.
I don't know if this will be good or bad for the Suns. I am a long time Suns fan and I hope this is the right move. The truth is even though the Suns lead the West I don't think we will win a championship with the current players. If Nash, Amare and Marion were going to win a title they would have done it by now. Let's take a risk and see what happens, what do we have to lose?
People are going to be biting their tongues come June! You think these people (Suns management) didn't think this thing through and consult the players? I believe Nash is good enough at point to elevate MY game let alone Shaq's. As some have said, Shaq will have more uncontested dunks w/ the Suns than he did with the Heat because of Nash. The Suns will somewhat adjust their tempo to accomodate the Big SlamDunk! They will run when they can and run their half-court sets when they wish as well. They now have the personnel to either run or dump it inside to either Shaq or Amare! It is going to be interesting. All that being said, it's all contingent on Shaq getting healthy. Not losing weight, just getting over these nagging injuries. I think Shaq's weight and work ethic have taken a beating over the years, but one thing stands as true; he has won EVERYWHERE he's been. Yes even in Orlando, when he led them against Hakeem and the Rockets in the finals. I beleive a motivated Shaquille O'Neal with players like Nash, Stodamire, GHill, Diaw, et al. will be a interesting fit come June! You heard it first here! Or maybe second......
Finally someone makes a good point, Laroccaone, actually reiterates mine. Shaq is still shaq he will still command doubles or else he is good for 20 and 10. no doubt about it suns are making the right move. why continue to have great regular seasons only to bow out in the playoffs because they are too soft and have no true post game. amare is not a center man he will kill people at the four. and all this #### about them not bein able to run. man thats why they aint won a title yet. this team cant win the way they are currently constructed. smart move by kerr. what sense would it make to try and win with the same team that hasnt got it done in the past. they are older now, and thats the only differenc. and marion is gone at the end of the year anyway. so get something for him now. keepin up with the jones'. have to take a chance. its now or never for this team and they knew it.
Last edited by Lakerzrback on February 6th at 12:02 PM.
why not too the jazz? he wouldnt have to work hard on offense. they got enough people to do that. but the jazz do need a center with more defense. have sloan and shaq work on just defense and he'd be exactly what they would need. the only thing is what would they lose to get him.