NASCAR officials have made two rules changes that will be in affect this season in regards to pit road regulations (they are listed in bold):
“Cars may not be pushed past the flag person at the end of the pit road. Unless otherwise authorized, once the race is underway, cars may be started by hand pushing in the pit area only, but under no circumstances is any car to be hand pushed more than three pit boxes away from their assigned pit box or into the acceleration zone or onto the race track from the pit area. Cars may not receive any assistance after the white flag has been displayed, except those cars making pit stops …”.
“A team member must be in contact with the outside tire(s) until the outside tire(s) reach the inside half of the pit box before the car leaves its assigned pit box. Any tires let in the outside half of the assigned pit box, or beyond, will result in a time or other penalty.“
These changes came about as a way to promote a safer pit road after several incidents occurred during the 2007 season where tires were being knocked around like projectiles by cars on pit road because they were not under the control of crew members. NASCAR felt like they had to take control of these tires better and this policy is something that teams will have to follow as the 2008 season starts.
I think it’s a good move. I don't think it will slow down the pit stops that much. It will challenge the teams to come up with a better system, but the important part is that pit road will be a safer place … I have to give NASCAR an ‘atta boy’ for making this decision.
Jeff Have to agree with you on this one..those flying tires are so dangerous!!! As for pushing the car....causes traffic problems too! Now if they will get on the broadcasting stations about too many commercials..as in ..'oh theres a caution time for A commercial...5 or 6 commercials later...hhhhhmmmm can you do something to improve that? Pioneer
The crew guys are saying "Thank God" to that first rule change! No more puffing all the way down pit road! I always thought it was rediculous that they let them do that!
Jeff - Sounds like a great decision by NASCAR.
Pit road can be quite crazy and dangerous during those cautions. I'm sure the crews will be able to adjust their pit stops to accomodate the changes. Thanks for keeping the fans up to speed on the rule changes!
When trying like the dickens to push start a car, who is going to count pit boxes?(we will need a pit-box-counter-guy? I mean person)
Can they push the car back and start again?
Will this have a negative effect on the #1 pit box at any tracks?
I like the tire rule. (surprised it wasn't a given before) Will this require an additional person over the wall when changing outside tires? I think everyone else is already busy?
Better put a hash mark on the half way point of the box.
Thanks for the inside scoop!
I assume you read these, just too busy to respond?
This will slow the pit stops. The tire changer removes the hot tire and a carier places the cold tite in place. Most teams use the jack man to catch the rear hot tire being removed and the front hot tire is just rolled toward the front of the car. This frees up the changer to grab his air gun, change direction, and start the nuts while the carier is positioning the cold tire. I assume the jack man will still catch the rear tire. Now the front changer will have to hold the hot tire with one hand and use the air gun with the other until the carier can get the cold tire in place and around him to take the hot tire.
Hmmm, pushing a car to start it. This rule sounds like it is unfinished. What happens in the following instances?
1. Crew pushes car 3 stall's and it still doesn't start, do just leave the heap there blocking someone else pit stall. Tactic could be used by multi car teams to hamper another teams pit strategy pretty easily. When you are out of fuel and your pit stall is blocked you could effectively lose race right here.
2. After car is pushed 3 stalls and team quits pushing do you throw a caution to get wrecker on pit road? Could also be used to help your team or hurt another team.
3. I think I saw this one earlier, if you are in first 3 stalls does this mean you can push car around on apron until you get back to the last stall on pit road.
4. If crew stops after 3 stalls can they just sit there and pour fuel or ether into instake manifold till it starts or blows up?
5. Can you push car back to your pit stall without incurring any penalty as long as you stopped pushing forward within 3 stalls? This could effectively give you 6 stalls as cars will start in reverse. Starting car in reverse would probably make for some interesting TV if it actually happenned. Or if you get back to your pit can you start pushing forward 3 stalls again effectively repating the cycle over and over again?
6. Can a team car push another team car on pit road as long as crew members quit pushing after 3 stalls without a penalty?
There is a way to misuse this rule quite easily if NASCAR does not think this through more than it is described in this article.
Last edited by steelers4ever@ on January 9th at 6:32 PM.
Steeler4ever@, I thought I would help you clarify some of this.
1. If you come to 3 stalls and the car still won't refire, you could do either one of two things. (1) Continue pushing and take any penalty. (2) Push the car back, try again or look under the hood. Ultimately, cars usually do not refire because drivers and teams try to go too far on a tank of fuel and run out. Better calculation on the teams part will prevent this from happening.
2. The team members can either push the car back to the stall or behind the wall. NASCAR would not throw a caution unless it posed injuries to any one. They would simply close pit road for the time.
3. Like it was stated in the rule, "Cars may not be pushed past the flag person at the end of the pit road." Most, if not all, crew members would not push there car around on the apron. They care about there safety as well.
4. Most teams would push the car back to either look at it, or try to push start it again. More simply, teams need to better calculate fuel mileage and not wait until the last second to pit for gas.
5. You can push your car back without penalty. We've seen this for years in NASCAR. Cars don't refire, so teams have to push them back and behind the wall.
6. A teammate can push another car, as long as it does not occur on the white flag lap and it does not advance position. This rule has also been in NASCAR for some time. This is also stated above.
Most of the rules are common sense, and you gotta use your head when it comes to things like this. It's well written, but you have to look more into it.
Last edited by jwhitford20 on January 9th at 6:34 PM.
jwhitford20 I agree that these are common sense rules with most answers being common sense, but what would the penalty be for a team car blocking another competitors pit stall even if for only 5 -10 seconds it could be critical. How could NASCAR penalize a team that says thay quit pushing after 3 stalls because they did not want to incur a penalty? It would seem to me that all of a sudden you have a NASCAR offical having to make a judgement call if the block was intentional or not.
If the first 3 pit stalls cannot effectively push start their car due to no space what do you do here?
I could see teams having 2 ignition boxes like they do now a good one for racing and defective one for pit road to be used purposely to hamper another team or competitor.
Calculating fuel mileage better is a cop out at best, since many race tracks are known as fuel mileage tracks and many teams have been known to try to stretch fuel mileage even more. Many with sucess some without, this tactic will not change. If anything NASCAR has made it worse by reducing the fuel cell to 14 gallons at a lot of super speedway's making this tactic even more frequent.
Last edited by steelers4ever@ on January 9th at 6:58 PM.
Sounds like some good rules. The hand push rule was needed, someone was going to get ran over.
Glad to see the tire rule too. I noticed some teams last year using the pit box NASCAR official as an extra man by having the tire changer roll the tire on edge, around the front car where they knew the offical would be so he would push it on over to the wall. Didn't seem fair or safe.
What you must realize is that teams are not going to purposely block another competitors pit stall. You have to realize that these guys race essentially the entire year together, and a team would not be as ignorant as to block someone else's pit stall to prevent them from pitting.
The officials aren't the ones who make the calls immediately on pit road. NASCAR themselves make the calls from upstairs on whether you must come in for a pass-through or a stop and go or a 1-lap penalty.
They aren't going to penalize a driver for blocking a pit stall, rather for going past the alloted 3 stalls.
Like I have said, teams need to better calculate fuel mileage to prevent this. The best teams don't ever have to push there cars down pit road because they won't refire. This is simply because they don't wait until the last second to pit.
After the 3 stalls, it is all in the teams hands. They can continue to push, incur a penalty, or push it back to the stall and check out what is wrong or try to push it again.
You seem like you think that teams and drivers are "out" to get other competitors. You almost seem like you think that each driver doesn't care about winning, rather preventing a fellow competitor the chance to win. That is not the case, nor will it ever be. These men are out driving, trying to win and doing there best. Things do accidentally happen and when they do, we should not jump to conclusions on whether it was intentional or not.
The new rule is safer and better. Simple as that.
Last edited by jwhitford20 on January 9th at 6:58 PM.
Also, tracks may be known as "fuel mileage tracks" simply because drivers always try to stretch the fuel to the end.
NASCAR was brilliant with making the fuel cell smaller. It gives the teams more opportunity to work, and in the long run, it shows who has the best driver and the best crew.
Calculating fuel mileage has gotten a lot better than years past, and teams are able to factor a lot more in and good driver input will help a team better calculate the mileage.
NASCAR makes good decisions, and making pit road safer is a great decision. They know what they are doing, and we will see it all work this season.
jwhitford20 - I agree that most racers do not try to purposely go out and hamper another team. But you have to admit with the display of shall we say feelings that some drivers have shown each other, If I am 20 laps down because another driver wrecked me I am not going to win the race but I can sure cause another driver to lose race. Wow you penalized me a lap for blocking now I am 21 laps down but I may have just ruined the race for the driver in the lead. If you think this possibility is not possible you are not watching races on Sunday. With the importance of consistency in the chase someone outside the top 12 could use this tactic to effectively determine the Championship by doing it just one time at a critical point.
I will paste my argument to fuel mileage here because I made edit after you had posted.
Calculating fuel mileage better is a cop out at best, since many race tracks are known as fuel mileage tracks and many teams have been known to try to stretch fuel mileage even more. Many with sucess some without, this tactic will not change. If anything NASCAR has made it worse by reducing the fuel cell to 14 gallons at a lot of super speedway's making this tactic even more frequent.
So if I am pit stall #1, lets just say I stall car, as rule is written my crew cannot push start car.
I am not saying this will ever happen but NASCAR is fining and suspending teams now whose cars fit the tempaltes because the team works creatively in the gray areas in between. Cheating or creativeness has occourded in the past, will continue today and will not stop tomorrow
Last edited by steelers4ever@ on January 9th at 7:30 PM.
Reducing fuel cell size was not done for any other reason except Goodyear could not make a tire that would last a full run at some tracks. It may give crews additional chances to work on or tune cars but it also creates more dangerous situations as cars must be on pit road more times during the race. Since this is probably one of the most dangerous times during the race when up to 43 cars and 7 crew memeber can be in such a confined area.
If don't think this is such a great idea, why is NASCAR developing rules to put crews in greater risk more often during the race then trying to develop rules to make crews safer for the extra risk NASCAR has created for them.
By the way who are you? Are you a NASCAR official?
Steelers - you made some good points. I definitely have to agree with what you have said. I have to say that I agree more with what you have said in the last post more than anything.
I'm just a fan of quite a few years, who loves this sport. I'm known to be quite vocal on my feelings when NASCAR does things wrong or something happens on the track that I may disagree with. I've had about 25-30 articles published in different NASCAR magazines in the past few years. Definitely not a NASCAR official...
Thanks for keeping this a mature conversation too...I've seen some people really get way out of hand in other posts to different news stories...this one was probably the best I have participated in. It shows when people actually know what the hell they are talking about...
i think a new rule should be ..if your car is junk you dont drive it...look at the junk on the track after the big one at daytona or 'dega...they are running 120 or less and the field..comes by at 200.....
This will change how crews will aproach a two tire stop. They will have to make sure the front tire is past the car on the pit wall side. As for the pushing the car, We will have towait and see how it turns out. I am sure we will find out at daytona. Cars will I sure push the fuel. Cant wait for the 50th Daytona 500...
To eliminate any gray area, would NASCAR consider putting a white stripe down the middle of the pit box so there would be no question that the crew member was in contact with the tire?
Dang, just when I had the rule book down! Thanks for the info Jeff.
I have enjoyed reading the discussion between steelers and whitford, you both should be commended on your knowledge of the sport and the manner in which you communicate!
I think these rules are good for their intention, and if read as "be sensible" about it it will be fine. However, knowing these teams, they will exploit every grey area possible to get an edge so it could lead to some ugly calls. I hope the intent stays clear.
I also agree that the better teams rarely have to push their cars and that crew chiefs are going to have to make better calls knowing the new rules...
To address the 'blocking someone else' pit stall'...that would cause more contention on the track once race resumed would it not??? Now what Kurt Bush did on pit road just to get next to Tony Stewart last season on pit road !!! That was over the edge on Pit Road danger practice and one who does something that dumb should be held back 2 laps!!!
I think rule changes to improve safety in the pits is certainly welcome but does it open up new dangers?
I do agree push starting cars down pit road is a clamity waiting to happen especially during a peak of pit stops by other teams.
The safer method would be external battery post on the rear of the car with a portable hand held battery and cables set up should it need to be jump started. Eliminates the push starting fiasco.
This type of set up is used frequently in Drag racing from the sportsmen classes up to the pro classes.
Last edited by photogr on January 10th at 8:52 PM.
STP43FAN, one of the reasons they put the pit road speed limit was because of crew members that were hit because of cars coming in to hot trying to make up time, to be able to get back on the track before the car in front of them. It's also important for the driver leaving his pit to beable to judge how fast the car coming down pit road is going to know how much room he has to get out
Push starting should be stopped. Use a quick plug for an external battery for cranking, like we did in Formula cars. If it won't start that way, park it.
Im all for safety but give ma a break. This is another attempt to muddy the rule book so "NASCAR's Official interpretation" can be used to micro manage races. After the last 2 embarrasing seasons I say 1/3 of the rules should be thrown out and the rest should be unmistakenly clearified.Use a hot plug to start the car that way you can say: Rule 154B.. If the thing wont run, Officials will push the bucket of bolts behind the wall. Then you can push it anywhere you want to to fix it!
As for the teams in the first pit stalls getting hosed on the new pushing rule: Isn't there a gap between the end of the last pit stall and the end of pit road? I'm not sure about this but I think there is.
Oh please. Nascar needs to make some major adjustments to the Car before everything else and give a title away for the leader of the points after the 26 race to the chase. Jeff Thats it kiss ole Lil france's hindend some more. Bet you even have a technique for it
Another vote here for eliminating the pit road speed limit and leaving pit road continually open. These two things would go a long way towards eliminating a (hopefully unintended) consequence of the present rules. Like it or not, most races are now won (or lost) in the pits. Doesn't make much sense to be the car to beat and work your BLEEP off to lose it all because your caught going 5 mph over the limit. My guess is the Yarboroughs, Pearsons, Allisons, etc. are shaking their heads as they change the channel to the golf game. May work for some of the pantywaists behind the wheel nowadays, but there a couple of things that have all but eliminated real stock car racing.
Last edited by 123zzzzzzzzz on January 13th at 11:18 AM.
I believe NASCAR is doing the right thing under caution. I thing it would be better to have yellow flag pit stops come and go as they were on the race track (let the teams do things right) Thsi would make a safer and better race. Go back to high speed green pit stops when there are only 1 or 2 cars on pit road. This would bring the excitement back to pit stops.
Wow, there are some really great comments here. Someone suggested that they eliminate the speed limit in the pit area. Years ago when the drivers weren't as "caged" in their cars as they are now they had better all around vision. Now they have to rely on someone elses' eye's to get them safely out of the pit stall. So, a speed limit on pit road is probably a good idea.
FOX race analyst Jeff Hammond led Darrell Waltrip to two of DW's three Winston Cup championships as his crew chief. They also teamed to win the 1989 Daytona 500.
