Earlier this week, it was announced that the Haas-CNC Sprint Cup teams were going to appeal the 150-point penalties NASCAR levied for their alleged illegal wing brackets. The catch is that until the appeal is heard, the teams will be listed in the owners standings with point totals reflecting the penalty. Now, leaving aside this SPECIFIC question of guilt or innocence at Haas-CNC, is there anyone here who REALLY would like to ever see THIS scenario? 1. Team inside top-35 gets penalized, moving the team outside the top-35.
This essentially happened to the #66 team, although they were in last week at Dover, their finish (39th) was poor enough to move them down to 36th. They were 25th without the penalty headed to Dover, and they would have been 28th headed to Pocono.
2. Team, now outside the top-35, misses a race or two.
Could happen, right? The 70 team has missed races. So has the 96. And the 10. And more.
3. Due largely to missing races, team falls well below top-35 cutline.
This happens SO MUCH faster than you would think. Right now, there is one team - the #66 - that is within 100 points of 35th. For J.J. Yeley to put his #96 back into the top-35, he would nearly have to win a race, or string together top-ten finishes - which, by the way, ISN'T nearly required to be barely in the top-35 (see Waltrip, Michael.) Every other team besides the #66 is at least 142 points behind 35th.
4. NASCAR accepts appeal and restores points that were penalized.
Again - not specific to the Haas-CNC case, but it could happen. Robby Gordon was docked 100 points this season that were returned. This is not an entirely implausible scenario.
Now, WHAT IF the rescinded penalty, applied for a few races then withdrawn, knocked a team out of the top-35 and forced them to miss races which they would have OTHERWISE qualified? WHAT IF NASCAR restored the points, yet those races that were missed left that team STILL outside the top-35? You know what that team would be?
Screwed.
Now, if you are reading this blog, you probably already don't like the top-35 rule - hardly anyone who really likes NASCAR does, right? But seriously, how can NASCAR not see that they made a rule that could potentially have GRAVE unintended consequences?
In this case, all the affected team could get is a "sorry, OUR bad" from NASCAR.
JJD- screwed by the screwy is what you have here. I would imagine NASCARs response to this would be "we would hear the appeal in a timely manner as to not affect our screwy points setup...however, it is our game and you agreed to play it so if you get screwed to bad, go home."
I dunno,but it sounds about right, I'll check the rule book...
"we would hear the appeal in a timely manner as to not affect our screwy points setup"
Obviously, my response to that would be "since you are letting even ONE race pass during the process of appeals, no you aren't." What if the #66 missed this week's race? Too little, too late would be the result.
It seems like more than ever the last several years that the points penalties are really hurting the teams...not to mention the fines and suspension of personal on the team. No more slap on the wrist or minor fines anymore...NASCAR means business should anyone not pass those inspections!
Well clearly JJD, Nascar will rig the qualifying so the 66 makes the race and the 96 will go home. until they can get the appeal heard.
LOL
I swear you should type up a formal document with your points clearly laid out and I will try to hand deliver it to the big yellow truck in the garage. Occassionally I see Helton around too. Something has to be done!
Lets see what happens if a team in 12th place after Richomd gets popped just before the chase begins.
Robby Gordon winning his appeal is rare indeed but Nascar doubled the fine to make their point.
A few years ago Petty Enterprises was penalised at Bristol after finishing second to Eliott Sadler. Nascar said that their car was too low in the rear but they were able to prove that a shock failed and that was the end of it.
Rest assured that the top teams will be on their marks from here on out looking at the chase but it would be wild if a bubble chase team failed post race at Richmond then won the appeal..... Think these guys can change for tires with a tank of gas real quick ? Nascar would act just a quickly
Clearly the Top 35 Rule like our own Constitution is not a perfect document but I still haven't seen anyone come up with anything better. Everyone racing in on time is a horrible soluton to something that isn't that broken. I say leave the rule as is until a GREAT improvement can be implemented that can be supported by the vast majority of the teams. Right now all proposed revisions to the rule that I've seen create as many problems as they solve.
I think that the top 35 should be changed to the top 12 (chase) drivers and let the rest race in. That way the drivers have more incentive to race harder.
NASCAR's points penalties are only hurting the small teams. The day when a points penalty hurts Hendrick Motorsports - and by hurt I mean take a points-leading car and wipe out out of contention - is the day NASCAR shows it is legitimate with its penalties.
Qualifying should be run like almost every other racing assoc. there is. The fastest 43 cars make the race and the rest go home. No matter who the driver or sponsor is.
This also gives the better teams that are way infront of the cut off line to play the system knowing we might lose some points but we still have a free get out of jail card and be in the next race.
Also you would think a team that close to being in or out of the top 35 would not be playing around with wrong parts knowing they can't afford being dock points.
RLGuido - You bring up a great point if say that 12 spot for the chase was lost due to a team being penalised points and then over turning it weeks later and they missout on the chase.
Top 35 rule is not racing. Fastest 43 should race every week. Everyone should be go or go home!
Racing is competition, not reserved parking.
Remeber Life is an adventure, not a guided tour.
Do away with the top 35. It was implemented for sponsors when it was actually competitive to get in. The cot has eliminated the little guys from attempting to make a race 3 or 4 times a year.
Go back to the old way and add a provisional for the top 12. That way they are assured of being in. And that is only if they have a part failure or wreck. If they can't qualify on time then they don't deserve to be there regardless of the sponsor. If a team in the top 25/30 can't run fast enough to get in on time then they don't deserve to be there. GIVE THE LITTLE GUYS A BREAK, THEY DESERVE IT MORE THAN THE MULTI CAR TEAMS.
TW.. they have come up with a better idea,Do away with the top 35 give me a spot, if you dont qualify go home and bring your best stuff next week, i mean really if they are in the top35 all they have to do is take a lap at any speed and bam wait for the race. By doing away with the top35 you get a better class of drivers...the ones who want to race...and how funny would it be for a top 10 driver to miss the race...naw na$$car aint gonna let that happen
I agree with you completely on this, JJD. In the stick and ball sports, when a suspension is levied on a player, they are not "held-out" of current competition if an appeal has been filed and until it is ruled upon. It would seem that NASCAR is putting adjudication before legal recourse.
The top-35 rule needs to be done away with. They say it's supposed to protect sponsors, but how are NAPA, State Water Heaters, Furniture Row, Red Bull, Valvoline, Charter Communications, LifeLock, Texas Instruments,Haas Automation, the U.S. Air Force,Little Debbie, Wells Fargo, Marathon Oil, or PVA.org protected in this? They're not. Eventually, this could lead to these sponsors leaving the teams they're with and joining one of the bigger teams. Forcing the smaller teams to shut down like PPI, Morgan-McClure, and BAM. It's also now nearly impossible for the non-locked in guys to move up. They have to concentrate the entire first practice session on qualifying setup while the top-35 can concentrate on race trim. Once they make the race, the non-35 guys are just starting on race trim, while the top-35 guys have already had an hour or more to work on it. It should be the fastest 43 make it. That way everyone would be on even footing and there would be less reason for sponsors to leave a team, due to them knowing that any team they go could miss a race.
The Top 35 rule is ridiculous! NASCAR is soooo greedy and money hungry that they continue to make themselves look stupid. They want to compete with the NFL and MLB but they pull bush league stunts like the Top 35 to placate the sponsors.
NASCAR would be respected more and looked on better if they went to the fastest 43 are in, like EVERY OTHER RACE SERIES DOES! I am a Jr fan and I wouod be dissappointed if he did not make a race, but then that would be more incentive for he and his team to ensure they are where they need to be for the race.
It would also light a fire under the team because their big time sponsor would not be happy for missing a race. The teams outside the Top 35 have no legitemate chance of getting into the Top 35 when the Top 35 teams do not have to worry about qualifying, they just work on race set ups where the others have to do qualifying set ups to ensure they get in the race. You then see them fade during the races because they are behind on race setup.
If NASCAR wants to be seen as legitemate, than put the fastest 43 cars in the race!
The impound rule was designed to lower the expenses and level the playing field to help the smaller teams. With it, teams no longer gain an advantage by having a complete engine and chassis and aero program just for qualifying. However, if you eliminate the protection of the top 35 rule, the biggest and richest teams will go back to having special development groups just for qualifying hurting the small budget teams much more than the current rule does. It isn't perfect but it has eliminated a lot of R&D costs for ALL the teams.
These are the rules, period. If teams dont like the rules then go somewhere else. There are always gonna be people that dont like one thing or another and NASCAR doesnt need to change the top 35 rule and i am GLAD they are fining teams and suspending people for multiple races if caught cheating
These are the rules, period. If teams dont like the rules then go somewhere else. There are always gonna be people that dont like one thing or another and NASCAR doesnt need to change the top 35 rule and i am GLAD they are fining teams and suspending people for multiple races if caught cheating
You don't think it would be unfair if a team missed a race due to a penalty that was later repealed? They wouldn't ever be able to get those points back, so essentially they would be screwed by NASCAR if that happened.
Race the fastest 43 cars from qualifying.
Simple as that.
This rule was stupid from the get go and it remains that way. It is killing the sport right along with the COT. Yes, COT is safe but the races are BORING!
I'd rather the Nextel Cup champion be decided over the entire season, but I think if you are going to have a Chase for the Nextel Cup, you should break out the twelve guys and have them scored separately, so I'm tracking the points both ways.
I also strongly advocate a NCAA football playoff, so there will be some posts about that showing up here, although I have written this blog for over a year and haven't gone there yet.
I can be reached via e-mail or AIM at jayjaydean at gmail dot com.
