Jamie - As much as I to want see the U.S. in the Copa America, I also think it's very important for the U.S. to honor its regional championship title with a 100% effort. The Gold Cup needs to also be built up and that won't happen if we give it a marginalized effort.
Man I am desperate to see the national team in action. Just send the assistant coaches for now but please play against somebody. I think every other national team already played friendly games.
First of all, The US should have always participated in the COPA AMERICA Tournament. It is the most oldest, prestigious and passionate tournaments besides the World Cup. Our biggest mistakes was never participating after the 95 Copa. This is where experience and level of skill increase. Let's face it, in the CONCACAF there isn't much threat. In South America, all the countries except Venezuela and Suriname have classified to the World Cup. The big boys are down there. We need to go. Don't be surprised if the US gets knocked out in the first round, hopefully this will be wake up call to Sunil Gulati. All these years we've could've gone deeper in the World Cup if we had our stake in Copa America. But above all I'am proud that my country is going, let's go and get some respect!!
roarksown1 I am too a fan of the gold cup, However American tv stations show no interest at all not even ESPN. I remember last year gold cup it was televised on Telemundo spanish tv station and no where else. So let's play copa america against tougher competition like Jamie said, that is how you measure yourself not against weak oponents.
Monster - It's not that I'm opposed to the Copa America ... on the contrary - I absolutely want to see our guys there.
But the fact of the matter is that we are the CONCACAF champions and must dilligently retain that title. Why do we hope for the competition in the region to concentrate on improving if we don't even give any merit to our own regional championship? We simply must treat the Gold Cup like a major tournament - if we don't, no one ever will.
For me this is all very simple ... the Copa Americas. A four-year tournament run opposite the World Cup with qualifying all across the Western Hemisphere. Sixteen teams every four years from all the Americas ... simple.
MLS and US soccer talk about the importance of the hispanic market. Copa libertadores and copa america are the tournaments in our hemisphere that the hispanic audiences watch. We talk about respect and not getting it from the latin and eurosnobs. Heres our chance prove our product is worth paying the price of admission, prove our product is just as good as theirs. USA in Copa America07 all the way.
They better play Copa America thats where we can test our players, I understand that Gold Cup is very important but the level of play is very low. Copa America will be at a very high level of play, also very passionate fans will only make the americans better.We have the team to compete at that tournament.
i think the U.S should stay home and not play the Copa America why? couse they are no match against teams like Brazil,Argentina,Paraguay,and you cant forget MEXICO!!!! its better for them to stay home and play with thier ball, or get ther #### embaresed like what happend in the world cup.
Let's do the Copa America tournament, and let some unknowns get runs in the Gold Cup. The Gold Cup shouldn't even count as an international tournament, it is so boring and ridiculous. Give it to the U-21s and focus more on Copa America!
I have to agree with you, how is it possible that we are doing absoutely NOTHING during international breaks since the WC??? Does anyone think this would fly in Europe or South America? We are a joke.
Also, I'm all for a traditional schedule for MLS. But if they had to change one thing, it needs to be the playoff format first and foremost.
US Soccer: stop force feeding us this kool-aid about how great we are when we beat an out of shape B squad from God knows where; go after some silverware that really means something. send a B squad to the GC and use the CA opportunity for your own good.
MLS: quit trying to reinvent the wheel; other countries' leagues seem to do just fine with their traditional seasons of play. and stop whining about your 'stars' leaving for US nat'l team games--this is still the main mode of exposure for your prospective fans to the greatest game.
Jamie, I have to agree with you! The US is in dire need of a wake up call, and the Copa America is the time to start. Like you said maybe playing the likes of Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador,etc...in a competetive setting will get our players in form for European teams. Our biggest problem is playing in Europe, so with that being said, this is where friendlys come in play, and the only way to make friendlys worth our while, by playing on European soil. We are not going to get these friendlys if the likes of Germany, Italy, England, Czech's, Spain, etc... even look at us as worthy opponents, on there soil, of course.
Right now if I had to choose between defending the Gold Cup and the Copa America, I have to choose the Copa, for the reason of changing the way US soccer is played. We are the defending Gold Cup Champs, and we can do it again. I don't think we have as good of a chance with the Copa, and for that reason, we have to, have to do the Copa.
I agree, we should collapse to a "Copa Americas" which would include Concacaf and South America into a mega tournament.
I think our interest will expand beyond recuiting mostly North Americans to the MLS and include South Americans.
I think we need to see young Brazilians and Argentians playing in the MLS.
It's a great playoff race!!! I'm so excited!!! Which crummy team will get hot in order to make the playoffs and will then upset the best team in the league to win the MLS Cup?!?!?!?!
MLS is awesome!!! Thank god the last 7 months weren't pointless or anything!!!
Jamie,
I agree that the USMNT should play BOTH the Gold Cup and Copa America, but especially Copa America. We need to be tested against real competition and harsh competition and we need to stop playing cupcakes!! If they don't play then I will start to not watch them as much any more. If they don't realize they need it then we are in worse straights then I could have imagined.
Phil
I'd like to see the Copa America change to a tournament held every 4 years, just like the European Championships. This means that 2006/2007 would be the qualifying rounds for all nations in North, Central, and South America (plus the Island nations) and the final tournament would take place in 2008 with 16 nations.
Well-argued piece there, Jaime. I can't imagine how the powers-that-be can counter the logic. Yet, they always manage to do things their own senseless way, don't they?
The Copa, the Spanish-speaking requirement for the next MNT coach, all bode well for US's long overdue integration into American football. (On its face, the language thing is rather shallow, but it is pretty revealing about who really is still in the running for the USMNT job - count 2 not 5.) Get MLS's arrogant (or clueless - depending on your view) owners to rationalize the tournament format and we just might turn things around.
Jamie,
Wait a sec, didn't you say in your column that friendlies are "utterly useless?" If so, why are we harping on why the US hasn't played a friendly since the WC? Who cares? Have the European friendlies meant anything? No, and the reviews were that they were a boring waste of time that just risked injuries to players. Now, the Euro qualifiers are a different matter, but there isn't exactly a major tournament for the US to start preparing for right now. Let the players stay with their MLS teams and let the national team get back in gear when they have a new coach next month.
From your column, which is somewhat internally inconsistent:
"3. The USA cannot waste any opportunity to play a competitive game.
The truth is that in the current soccer climate, friendlies are utterly useless. Friendlies are almost useless in terms of team evaluation..."
That is true: Friendlies ARE useless in terms of TEAM EVALUATION. However, they are NOT useless in terms of keeping the product in front of American fans. See point seven.
Now, if the USA really wants to be competitive, well, then they need to be building a team. A team can't be built without playing, can it? Add in a FIFA calendar that doesn't allow for many chances for national teams to play and you come to the conclusion that the USA has to play the games they're given.
I feel that the USA needs to play competitive games, not meaningless matches against saps like, well, much of CONCACAF. What does a friendly against Panama tell us? Not much, I fear. I want to see the USA play for a trophy, and barring that, play games even if the USSF has to pay the other team to do so on their home turf. A game against Portugal in Lisbon is a better test than a game against Latvia in East Hartford.
All that said, I also have to point out that too often, the American fans — and the USSF — have overweighted the importance of friendlies. (Best example: the USA's win over a dismal Austrian side, touted as the beginning of a "new era" by then-coach Steve Sampson. Uh, no.)
Is this contradictory? I don't think so. In my view MOST friendlies the USA played were indeed useless. But with so few FIFA dates — and with the big pile of cash the USSF is sitting on — don't tell me the USA couldn't be playing some teams who need a tuneup for E2K8 qualifying. The fact is, once those FIFA dates are gone, they're gone, and that's something neither you nor I can argue about.
Last edited by JamieTrecker on October 6th at 9:24 AM.
Ok, sure, playing friendlies against Euro teams tuning up for qualifying would be great. How likely is this to happen this fall, even if everyone in USSF wanted it to happen and we already had a new coach?
I absolutely agree that the friendlies against Morocco, Latvia, and Venezuela were a pathetic waste of time leading up to the WC and had a lot to do with our dismal showing in Germany. (And I spent a lot of money to travel to Germany to watch us wither on the world stage...) I'm just not so sure that the US has enough clout at the moment to secure friendlies against top-flight teams in the next couple months, and I think it really would be utterly useless to play friendlies against Panama, Jamaica, Costa Rica, etc. (Maybe playing Mexico would be worthwhile...) But I'm afraid that if we were playing friendlies that's probably who we'd be playing. Is that really worth taking advantage of the FIFA international window?
And aren't the Euro teams busy playing in actual qualifiers on this weekend's FIFA international game date?
Last edited by danboleo on October 6th at 10:47 AM.
You play friendlies when you have team B. You play qualifying games with your Team A players. Do we have a B team?, we do not even have a coach or a strategy for the next world cup and it is not going to be next week or month or year. Lets start planning early or be embarassed again.
I think if US Soccer starts planning with a new coach in November we'll be ok. The sky won't fall if a few more weeks pass without a game or a public plan. I also read somewhere that the nats will play a friendly in November sometime - should be announced in a week or two.
Well: It's extremely unlikely if you don't even try. A few years back, a USSF honcho told me that Feds were "knocking down their doors" to play the USA. I said I'd believe it when I saw it — and I'm still waiting.
The facts are that the USA is not a draw overseas. I get that; I also get that the USA would likely have to pay to play. However, I'm fine with that. What better way to spend some of that money? I'd rather see the USA pony up a few million bucks to play four good teams in Europe than watch it pony up a few hundred thousand to play garbage games in North Carolina.
And while I'll get lots of hate mail for this: I'd also rather see the USA spend more money paying for games for the men than fielding a bunch of youth women's teams. I have nothing against the women, mind you, but in the long run, the men give some return on the investment. The women's national team right now can't draw dust, and don't give a return. I think there's money being spent there that could be better spent elsewhere.
Planning? For 2002 we planned, then for 2006 and what happened. Are we planning for 2010? You have no idea what the World Cup means for the World. Playing some Cup's are not going to help. Having the whole picture is another thing. We think like Northamericans with our soccer mentality. The world thinks that you need a ball and that is it. We have to have stadiums, profits, propaganda, etc. Some countries Lose money with their teams for years. We scaled down teams in the US to try and make money. Are we really planning for 2010, is the sky falling? Or did the sky fell years ago.
Jamie:
A draw overseas? We are a big draw when we play in Mexico, why do you think the Asteca Stadium was full to the brim and they were shouting "O'SAMA". The women's teams in the US opened many doors for soccer media in the TV networks, both for the men and women. Who won more games, the men or women team's. Who won more meaningful games? It is all important, there is not one avenue better then the two, ever heard of the term Soccer Mom's.
Jamie,
I generally agree with you that US Soccer does a poor job of securing challenging friendlies with top teams and that US Soccer is too tight-fisted with its money. Sure, we should pay whatever we need to pay to play some competitive games in Europe (or in Copa America, which is great news if we accept the invitation).
So I agree with your points generally speaking; I just can't get worked up about whether we play a friendly in October or wait until we have a coach in November and play a friendly then. In the long run I doubt it will make much difference. (And sadly it'll probably be against inferior competition - now THAT's a problem we can agree to get worked up about.)
Regarding the women's teams, when the US women beat Chinese Taipei 10-0, you realize what a big loss it was to the women to lose the WUSA. Women's soccer has fizzled and there is little meaningful competition. They're back to the pre-'99 WWC days of playing games just to have something to do. The WUSA had many flaws (such as a flawed business model that drove it into the ground), but the women were infinitely more in the spotlight than they have been since. You or someone here said that MLS needs the national team for publicity; well, now we see how badly the women's national team needed the WUSA for publicity. I'm afraid women's soccer in America is kaput.
While I'm going off on tangents, please for the love of God let Posh Beckham stay in Europe. He's the last thing MLS needs.
Last edited by danboleo on October 6th at 1:25 PM.
OK, so the US isn't a draw for the Europeans - why not schedule some friendlies against the likes of Australia, or, Japan or South Korea in Asia? I would think that games against some African opponents on their turf would be a good learning experience for the younger players also. What about a friendly against one of these teams in Europe (so the European based players wouldn't have to travel)?
RE: the Gold Cup. Is the US always the host? I realize we're about the weakest Federation, but wouldn't alternating sites (hold it in Mexico, Cananda, Costa Rica) make it a bit more competetive (and valuable for the US) and maybe even spur more interest in it (could there be any less)?
An earlier poster commented on not getting respect from Latin and Eurosnob fans and "proving our product is as good as theirs". The drawback with that plan is that....it isn't as good as theirs. American football is at a so-so level, and whilst it has great potential, to kid yourself that you're already top-notch and it's everyone else that is deluded is completely the wrong approach. US football will only stand a chance of taking on the big names (who spend most of the time underachieving themselves) if they get out there and play the bigger names on a reasonably regular basis. This is the one decent chance the US has of taking on decent teams and truly climbing the football ladder rather than play nothing but hopeless teams with mediocre players then kid themselves they're great.
The EPL after the Heysel stadium european ban took a complete nosedive in terms of quality (it wasnt known for its silky skills even before), and it took several years after the lifting of the ban for English teams to even challenge for trophys in Europe after decades of domination. To see the then-league-champions blackburn take on a team of Swedish part-timers and be outclassed was a wake up call to anyone who never plays outside their own backyard. English football became "inbred" with EPL teams only playing EPL teams, with the boot-and-run aspect of the EPL increasing, and the skill level disappearing.
US football is not "up there with the best". And whilst it deserves more credit than most established footballing nations might give it, being delusional about its true level will only le
....lead to a repeat of the recent World Cup "how did the US fail to beat everyone ??" shock, horror, disbelief.
Simple...because they were better...
If the muppets running the MLS dont seize the one decent chance thats come along to get US soccer on track, then I think you might just have to shoot them.
More friendlies would generally be useful to the US, though scheduling the players could be tricky. Friendlies can be fairly meaningless, but even fairly meaningless experience is better than #### all. Friendlies are useful against rival (with a strong enough rivalry you'd never know you were watching a friendly), or if both teams are trying to measure themselves. Playing the real big names might result in disinterested opposition, but the chance of embarassing them, gaining experience, and getting other teams' attention is worth the effort for the US. Friendlies are of less use to the big teams with top ranked players because they've got their eyes on trophies and big games and are not going to take a chance on a tackle against someone they've never heard of when they're facing Barcelona in the Champions league next week. The US is not in that position, so it shouldn't use that logic to avoid doing anything for 6 months.
Our women's team no longer scares anybody, we don't have better conditioned athletes, and most importantly, we have no tactical edge. I believe Germany's Birgit Prinz was asked about the Americans a few years ago and she said something along the lines of "They know nothing of tactics."
Last edited by MrRedDevil on October 6th at 5:22 PM.
1. we should absolutely play in Copa America.
2. Rotating the Gold Cup is a good idea. It would draw better in othter countries where the home fans would turn out in hopes of seeing us beaten.
3. The collapse in popularity of the WNT is really astonishing. I have daughters who were little during the WWC here. WE went to one of the games in Washington. It was a really big deal, a massive deal. Now, who cares?
having said that, USSF can't really cut back on the WNT to help the MNT. It is just not politically possible. Moreover, it's probably not necessary. Lack of money at "Soccer House" is not the big problem. Smug, delusional self-satisfaction coupled with ironclad job security is the problem.
Jamie:
1. Idiomatically or technically is a semantic answer.
2. What have the women's soccer done since 1999 is not important, what is important is what have we done for them. They played their their heart's, which is something we cannot say about the men.
Good article, Jamie. It's really a simple situation:
*Play better teams under difficult circumstances more often.*
This makes a team and it's players better and prepares them for the future. You have to take every opportunity to play good opponents----IF IF IF----the goal is to make the team better (as opposed to simply making money). Think of it as sort of like the UFC fighters. To get better, you have to fight guys who have all sorts of tools to beat you with. It's the only way to know your own shortcomings.
The fact that so many Mexican and SA fans would want to beat the US so badly HELPS US. Forget friendlies with any Euro teams---they don't care. Play some African teams IN AFRICA or teams in places such as Saudia Arabia where they will play hard to beat the U.S.
Last edited by roccoDC on October 8th at 12:20 PM.
ABSOLUTELY perfect comment. The fact that they want to beat us and that they play a good soccer it makes sense to play SA anf Afican teams. Playing Middle East teams would be a plus.
Playing European teams would be playing their B teams.
Let's face it: who cares about the Gold Cup? I think that CONCACAF (40 teams) and CONMEBOL (10 teams) should merge so that teams would have qualify for the Copa America (as oppose to being invited), play more competitive games and less meaningless friendlies. Also, USA will have to struggle to qualify for the World Cup, but playing against teams like Uruguay or Paraguay, Argentina or Brasil will improve both the quality of players and the interest for soccer in USA.
As for the schedule, the MLS should have the same schedule of South America.
Jamie....We need a coach....Please show some #### and hit the subject without any regard for political correctness attitude we the fans are tired of the pusification of the soccer media.....Come on Jamie
Oh, where to start? OF COURSE, we must play Copa America, and God willing, under the most difficult group-stage conditions as possible: in Quito, v. Argentina, etc. But more to the point I LOVED your point that US Soccer has to bring MLS into line with the northern hemisphere's FIFA calendar.
Expand MLS to 16 sides (adding Toronto, St. Louis, Philadelphia & a second XI in Greater NYC). That's a 30-game regular season with a midwinter break, beginning in September and ending in May, with some weekends off for US Open Cup -- and, good idea, Jamie! -- some weekends tacked on at the end for MLS Cup (i.e., the League Cup). The nice thing about this is that Soccer's championship run-in wouldn't compete with the World Series or the NFL, and its Cup Final wouldn't compete with anything except Tiger Woods.
I think it's important, though, that things like Concacaf Champions League get wider exposure. I love Klinsy as much as any Arsenal-hater, but the future of the USMNT isn't in beating Poland on a regular basis; it's in beating Brazil. How 'bout Sunil just asks if La Volpe is interested?
Last edited by art_durbano on October 27th at 1:15 PM.
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