Well, the hot topic today is that NASCAR is seriously considering changing the minimum age requirement from 18 to 21 years old for its top series, Sprint Cup.
Reports and blogs were posted on www.rowdy.com yesterday about a "reliable source" stating this information.
Today, David Poole from Sirius Radio NASCAR Channel 128 started the debate on the issue.
This certainly can be looked at from many different angles, and I will be keeping my "ears" open on the topic because this would adversely effect one of my favorite drivers, Joey Logano.
See comments below!
UPDATE 10:37 PM CST: THIS JUST OUT FROM SCENEDAILY.COM <--click on link
The rule could have its biggest impact on Joe Gibbs Racing's Joey Logano, who turns 18 in May and will compete in the Nationwide Series event at Dover later that month. He won the Busch East title last year as a rookie.
A JGR spokesman said the team has no comment on the proposed rule, and a NASCAR spokesman also said that the sanctioning body would have no public comment at this time.
Lori - did the rumors include any rationale for raising the age? Is it to help give the Nationwide series a more defined role as a developmental series?
Do keep us informed, its really going to mess up Joey and Gibbs (esp if they were planning on having Joey as back up if Tony bolts...)
wow..is it because they will have only had two years driving experience at 18? (Maybe less...some of these kids have to wait 6 mos after their 16th b-day to get a license). I know some of the drivers learn how to drive from their Daddys at a young age, but I kind of agree with this rule.
Let's face it...an 18 yr old driver is still very immature and tends to not look at mortality realistically. Yes, if he races in Nascar, he knows the risks..but does he really understand it? NO.
We all did stupid things as a teen, and a Nascar driver is no different. At 18, mortality is still very much not a factor....he's a teenager driving a fast car with raging hormones. I know I'll get flak for this, but I think it's a good thing.
Lori, when I heard this yesterday I was hoping you or Kristen would write about it. I don't know what to think yet. I'd like to know the reasons behind the thoughts. Lisa, no flak from me. However, you do realize that the majority of these men started racing at 4, 5, 6 years of age don't you? They have more than a couple of years of experience. However, they do lack maturity--case in point would be Kyle Bush. lol
Remember my post to you guys yesterday about the blogs on rowdy.com? Go read some.
Lisa - Poole opened the phone lines on the show this morning and seriously, people were calling in debating about every angle you could think of. Including, but not limited to, 1) age discrimination, 2) we can send out kids off to fight in the war at 18, but not let them drive a race car?, 3) you can't buy alcohol until your 21 - so this would be a good rule change...
So on and so forth...
HOWEVER - to now implement this rule after we've seen several drivers excel coming in to the sport at young ages, i.e., Martin Truex Jr. and Kyle Busch, it is hard to see the standard being changed...
I promise to write more of my thoughts when I can.
Last edited by HotfootLori on January 17th at 11:34 AM.
Yes, I know they start racing at a young age...I think I mentioned it...but what I was trying to convey is do ya'll remember at age 16 when u got ur license to drive? Remember what idiotic things we did at that age? I was trying to get you to think the mentality of the age behind the wheel, that's all...they are immature.
Yeah, the 18 and you can fight for your country argument is always there....but the thing is, I think it should be raised to 21 as well. I think the only reason why it isn't is because these kids want to go to college and use ROTC etc as a way to get their education paid for.
I just don't think 18 is old enough to make such a huge, risky decision. The money is a big lure....it ruins people (like that truck racer who does heroin) and distorts their logic in making a good decision. Make a million to race cars? What teen boy is going to say no to that?
Tez - you are correct. However, it would prohibit Logano from moving up to Cup until 2011 -instead of possibly being able to move up in 2008. Even though JGR is starting him in Nationwide Series after he turns 18 in May, what if he does really well and they want to put him in a Cup car? What if Tony Stewart doesn't re-sign with JGR for after 2009. Logano would not be able to move into the Cup ride...
Anywho... trying to work today so sorry if my responses are short.
Volfan - exactly. And, some have not. Many people were trying to tie-in the fact that the drivers should be REQUIRED to race in the lower series for a set number of years to gain that "maturity." But, then, how do you tell championship drivers like Montoya, no you can't race in the Cup series until you've driven in Trucks or Nationwide for 3 years... well, ok, maybe that wasn't a good example ~ he probably should have! LOL
Lisa - I agree with the crazy stuff we did at that age. But, I don't think these team owners would put someone in their cars if the driver hadn't proven themselves somehow. Again, sponsorship dollars comes into the scenario as well. Let's say a team owner has a driver about 48 years old. Then, they have a development driver who has won races/championship in other series. They tell young driver, well, we just keeping said 48 year old in car until you turn 21. 48 year old driver not performing at level team or sponsors want. CRAZY!!
Anywho, the jist of my rambling is the teams/owners would not want the driver in the most competitive series unless they feel they could do it.
BUT - on the flip side, you get an 18 year old in a Cup car, drafting at Daytona or Talladega with the best in the world, it is a very scary proposition. HOWEVER - as with Villeneuve this past October at Talladega, he opted to drop back and start at the tail of the field. Maybe a less mature person would not have done the same? I don't know.
Lisa:
"At 18, mortality is still very much not a factor....he's a teenager driving a fast car with raging hormones."
We got drivers older than 21 doing that now.I think it actually is the maturity level of the individual at any age should be considered. Not mautre enough, no race.
Most of these young drivers have been racing in some form since they were in grade school so racing in CUP is not that much different. I do feel 18 is the absolute minimum a CUP driver should be to get into a cup car. This might be a good start for the developmental series too.
The main reason is their education should take presidence over every thing first. The series at this level is a full time venture and there is not time for schooling after races.
21 might be a better idea for CUP. 18 a better idea for Nation Wide. Lets also add if you are a seasoned driver from another series, you must spend a year in Nation Wide before moving up to cup.This will give all a solid background for racing a 3400 lb car.
Last edited by photogr on January 17th at 12:39 PM.
a fill in driver for a year...well Jason Leffler didn't go too bad in the Busch series last year so maybe they could try and nick him for a season while Joey is underage? Or Steven Leicht perhaps?
I'd say go for Marcos but I doubt Ford would let him go, lol :P
But what about all the money JGR has sank into training Logano? They're going to sign a driver for one year only? I don't know what would be right there... just saying.
My main concern is the safety issue of a new comer to the cup or Nation Wide series. Put these guys out on a super speedway with out any experience and some one is going to get hurt at those speeds no matter how long they have raced.
Lori - Thanks for sharing the "scoop" on a story which could definitely cause some controversary if it does indeed come to fruition. While it seems a great idea in theory...minimum age rules, I do believe that as several have commented, the maturity level varies with the individual. So while this rule may indeed benefit some...it could also be detremental to others who indeed have the maturity, and are ready for the challenge.
Photo also makes a very valid assessment about the younger drivers completing their schooling before becoming involved in a full time effort with racing. In any case, I think there are pros and cons to both sides of the story, that should be fully evaluated before a decision is made.
Lori - You might be pushing your hopes on them moving Logano up that fast. He will be in Bucsh for at least 2 years I feel. I think this is why NASCAR is doing it so cup teams have to let the young drivers get seat time.
I guess safety is a concern...but with Vickers, Kyle and others who moved up young, nothing tragic has happened on track. Now they may be more or less mature but I can name several veterans that could use some maturity too! I think age and how you handle things are separate issues...
If they have been racing well enough for an owner/sponsor to want to put them in Cup they will have the experience *probably*.
This seems like a first step by NASCAR to regulate seat time...seems like a back door way to do it to me.
Also did you see the bit on Ryan Newman making a statement about how he wishes more drivers would finish college...seemed loosely related to this rumor.
I agree Klvalus =) This is an arbitrary number we are talking about here, and I just don't think it is right based on just a number.
What if something happened to Stewart, Hamlin or Busch (I am not talking tragic, just unable to race for a while)... JGR would have someone to put in the car who already knows the teams, organization, etc.
Glad you posted this Lori. good to see you at the top of the page too. Now i wont be a day late to your blog as i usually am.LOL
I do think having an age limit for the top levels is a good idea for the same reasons several have alreay mentioned.maturity is a big factor in the development at that stage.
too often these kids are pushed too quickly from Jr drag, Whelen, or other developmental racing series into the potlight of Cup racing. learning how to handle that spotlight before jumping into the top series can only benefit them. As we've seen in othr sports, "Getting em younger" doesn't always mean" getting em better"
BTW Lori. Thanks to you and 3fan for taking over my blog. Everyone will think i hate Jimmie Johnson now. LOL .I logged on this evening to find someone turned it into a mad house. Oh well, that's usually the trend on my posts so i should be used to it by now.
Let's face it...an 18 yr old driver is still very immature and tends to not look at mortality realistically.
Robby Gordon just turned *38* and still fits that description.
This just seems like an easy way out to try and force young kids to race Busch. Most "kids" are Busch racing at that age anyway, not Cup racing. Are they just trying to out the NWS on Joey Logano's back?
I remember thinking when I was 18 that I had only 3.2% beer to legally buy and drink. With the dumb thought out of the way, I tend to agree on everyone's side that was mentioned in that debate about 18 and can go to war, etc...
I know many who were drivers in our county who has already driven for 6 years or so. But they are tught by their parents, if only to help run the farm. Many are solid drivers by the time they are 16 or 18. But like I said I can see everyone's side in this arguement. If these younger drivers have proven they can hang, why not.
I don't understand Nascar provoking the age debate. If an owner wants to risk $$$$ and equipment by putting an 18 yoa kid in the car, then it is their $$ that they are out.
Furthermore, I think Nascar has the ability to park anyone for bad driving (or behavior) for any length of time. So if an 18 yoa phenom causes too many crashes, Nascar can tell the team they are parked, or worse, revoke their Nascar/Cup license.
It's not like there has been a rampant age problem. Most rookies in the Cup series cause accidents - it has Nothing to do with their age or prior experience. It takes time to adjust to the weight/horsepower ratio which is unique to Cup cars. Some do well, others don't.
I think on Kyle's record he has come close to tragic. We have seen the no fear in the young guns. Great if they pull the move off without taking out the field. The older drivers know not to risk that move because of the bigger risk of a bad out come.
Jeff Gordon was the same way, till Dale Sr took him aside and said you don't need to push it every lap. Now we got Jeff saying super speedways is no place for a first timer/rookie to be racing at.
Lets face facts. Whats was a bigger deal NASCAR lost a driver at NHIS this weekend Or the fact he was so young/Just a kidd ? (( Adam Petty )) I read most of the papers and it was how tragic he was so young. Hello, its tragic no matter how old a person is dies.
Forensic - NICE! Good for you to make your point. It is very tragic, no matter how old the driver is.... Dale Earnhardt Sr.
I am not disagreeing with the fact that some drivers tend to show their immaturity when they make crazy moves.... but the veterans do it too. Then they make statements like Ryan Newman... "I don't know what happened out there, I guess I just ran out of talent.."
I do not think there should be this arbitrary number / age limit. If the driver has proven themselves and shown maturity and talent, skill, phenom-status, whatever, the team owner should be able to make the call as to whom he wants to put in the seat of his Cup car.
JMHO
Last edited by HotfootLori on January 18th at 8:44 AM.
Lori,
I'm glad you started this blog, beause if you hadn't, I wouldda.
I think most everybody has touched upon the points I was going to bring up, so I won't beat a dead horse.
- Being 21 does not make one mature.
- All rookies are going to cause crashes, no matter what their age.
- Ryan Newman encourages college education first. He has a degree in mechanical engineering and finds communication with his crew easier since they speak the same language. Even with general education, one learns language skills, logical thinking, priority-setting, discipline, and goal achievement -- skils all useful in everyday life.
- Underage drivers can't be sponsored by "adult beverage" companies.
- Bottom line, let the owners decide where to invest their money.
Great scribble but I can't help but think about Petty's kid needlessly dead because his father didn't have the sense God gave a bag of bricks to keep his kid from running on a short track that had just X'd a couple of drivers because of flaws in its design.
I think if you have 18 year olds running at +150 mph it's a recipe for disaster. Especially on a short track. The learning curve isn't there no matter what "right" popular opinion confers.
While I can understand those of you who think this is a good rule change that is being proposed, I see lot's of litigation ahead for NASCAR if it is implemented. Other sports have tried to deny those with the necessary talent an opportunity to earn a living competing at the highest level based upon age and have lost the battle. LeBron James certainly proved a guy right out of high school can be enough of a man to be successful in professional sports while still a teenager. Plus some teenagers have a lot more maturity than punks like Tony Stewart who will be immature when he is 60. As for edhardiman's riduculous criticism of Kyle Petty, how does a guy that cruel and idiotic even learn to use a keyboard. Adam was safer in a race car than he was driving to the track or than Ed, the ####, when he drives to work (assuming someone would hire such a heartless and stupid person). I lost a son at 19 (Adam's age) in a racing accident but it wasn't because he didn't have the talent to be racing or because he lacked maturity. Tragic events happen and hundreds of drivers have driven in races at the track where Adam was killed before and since then. Does Ed (if I only had a brain) Hardiman think they are all senseless???) Crawl back under your rock, man and let those who have the talent, maturity, desire, and EXPERIENCE to get a ride in Sprint Cup do what they were born to do.
Final comment on this blog by me - Marco Andretti finished 2nd at the Indy 500 at the age of 19 (5/28/06). Do you really think after two full seasons of IRL racing including two Indy 500s (arguably the most dangerous racing circuit in this country) that he shouldn't be allowed to run a NASCAR Cup race until he is 21 this March. If an owner could talk him into running the Daytonna 500, I guarantee you he has the talent and the maturity to run well. NASCAR is just once again trying to fix something that isn't broken. BTW, Lewis Hamilton was signed by McLaren at 13 and ran successfully in 3 different series (as a teenager) prior to moving to F1 just after turning 22.
