"When I'm upset, I'm known to, you know, do certain things -- like win
championships." - Shaquille O'Neal
In today's press conference introducing Shaquille O'Neal as a member of the Phoenix Suns, I saw a look in Shaq's eyes that I haven't seen since his first year in Miami. It was the look of a driven champion. Shaq's mind is willing. The question is whether his body will follow.
Once again, the doubters have tugged on Superman'scape. Does The Diesel have enough left in the tank to make everyone "eat their words" yet again?
Will this stint in Phoenix define Shaq's legacy as much as his previous 4 rings have?
After all, this is the second time in 6 years that he's won an NBA championship, only to be shown the door 2 years later.
And why was he shown the door each time?
Because both the Los Angeles Lakers and Miami Heat chose to build around their superstar shooting guards. In large part because the man in the middle had become a shell of his former self.
Shaq has become nothing more than a hired gun.
This is not what Pat Riley, Dwyane Wade, and the Miami Heat organization had in mind when they traded for one of the 10 greatest players of all-time 4 years ago. They expected to be perennial contenders and play into June for the next 5 seasons. Not win one title, be swept in the first round the following season, and be a lottery team the season after that.
Unfortunately, Shaq let them down. Just like he let the Lakers down. Yes, he delivered one NBA championship to the Heat but was that ONE NBA championship worth a $100 million dollar investment and the possibility of losing their franchise player? Apparently not.
So this is what Shaquille O'Neal's career has come to.
Can the hired gun deliver one more time before riding off into the sunset or will he overstay his welcome once again?
Despite his 4 rings, 1 MVP, and recognition as one of the all-time greats, Shaquille O'Neal's legacy depends on the outcome.
Shaq's best day's are behind him. I wonder how well he'll do in Phoenix. They are automatically more physical even if he doesn't suit up until April. Good post.
Phoenix will definitely be a more physical basketball team.
It's funny how I keep hearing all of these experts talking about how Shaq is going to protect the paint and deter guards from getting to the basket.
Shaq has never been either an enforcer that gives out hard fouls or a shot blocker. If anything, teams will penetrate even more to get Shaq in foul trouble...which has plagued him all season in Miami.
Guess who owes Shaq another $20 million in 2008-9? Yikes. The Suns better win now or next year will be a financially difficult year.
Shaq with average health will clean up in local endorsements and ad revenue for the team.
Still, trading for the old and busted sloth really forces the 7-seconds and shoot team to change their tempo.
Grun, how come you didn't include LeBron in with Wade and Bryant. At least these 2 have won a title OR 3. Best to keep the GLOBAL ICON out of any discussion that might taint his unproven status. LOL LOL LOL don't ya just love sarcasm...you were right it is FUNNY
Good blog. I agree that a motivated Shaq is scary. After Shaq's comments, I'm not as negative about the trade from the Suns' side as I was just yesterday. If Shaq is truly motivated and wants to work hard at getting in to shape, at focusing during the game, at leading in the locker room, and avoiding the late-night partying that takes its toll, then the Suns are much, much, much better off for it. Even still, I don't know how many of his injuries were real and how many were excuses, and this is my problem with Shaq. I loved him when he was here in L.A. But the difference between him in 99-00 and 03-04 was just ridiculous because he lost motivation. Then of course he worked his tail off in Miami to prove the Lakers wrong. But it only lasted so long. One was good enough for the big guy and he just couldn't push himself to do it again. We'll see if he has one more push left in him. I think it'll be telling if Shaq's ailments just disappear now that he's been traded to a good team. I bet his Miami buddies wouldn't be too thrilled if they did...
THREE titles. THREE titles. Shaq didn't let anyone down in LA.
THREE FINALS appearances on THREE different teams.
How much money has been spent by various franchises to NOT get a championship? Was it money better spent with the Wolves on KG? With the Lakers on Kobe? With [insert player who's had 100+ mil in contracts with a team and come up ringless]?
One thing I hate is how quickly LA turned on Shaq. Again, no Shaq, no rings Laker fans.
And you have to wonder how the Kobe-Shaq relationship would've been if Kobe hadn't ratted on Shaq to those cops after the Colorado incident. Sure they had ego issues, but I always wonder how Shaq could ever stand to be on the same court with a man who did him like that.
Grun....I admit he was a great player, but he never won in Orlando and didn't win in L.A. until Phil got there. I find it worthy of attention to point out that the 2 coaches that raised the bar for him with high expectation levels(Phil and "Riles") are the only 2 coaches he has had success with, yet at the same time clashed with. He was able to intimidate Brown at LSU Hill in Orlando and Harris in LA. Does D'antoni have the backbone to stand up to the "Big Sunset" and command respect? I doubt it!!! Phil got it as did Riles because their pedigrees demanded it. Shaq is very proud..to the point of arrogant and feels he allready knows what it takes. I don't see him respecting Mike in that way. He will probably look at Mike as "Just let me do this,and you get to reap the rewards".. Phil noted many times that Shaq is like a child in so many ways..."desperately in need of discipline yet resisting it with all his might". Shaq and D'antoni will test each other and the thinking here is Mike will wilt under the pressure of the entire situation and expectations suddenly thrust upon him. He has never has to harness a player like Shaq. If you think Marion complaining counts...it isn't even in the same ballpark. I wonder how they coincide the first time Mike pushes him, or how Mike will react when he realizes that this is all a big smoke screen and knows he has problems. Shaq has all ready proclaimed himself to be "The straw that stirs the drink" for Phoenix.He comes right in and portrays himself as the difference maker without mentioning his new teammates or their hard work in building
alaskan - The only reason either have won a title is because of Shaq. If Shaq hadn't played with Kobe, Kobe would be recognized as T-Mac. Oh so close, but never to the second round.
Lebron has already proven himself more than capable to take a franchise deep into the playoffs.
continued...this team. The problem is that the guy that coined that phrase was still hitting 40+ HR and winning World Series'. This guy has done nothing to show us he is still at the top of his game. In fact it is just the opposite. I see major turmoil for this team once the honeymoon period is over.
Shaq would not have won without Kobe or Wade either!!! He had Penny Hardaway with Orlando and he was the heir apparent to Magic. Some said even better because of his athleticism. Yet they pulled a "LeBron" (Got Swept)in the finals against Houston. The goal is to win it all not just lad your team close. LBJ has a long way to go still and it won't happen in Cleveland. I think he gets a ring at some point, but not until he goes elsewhere. Look for him to be Gone Like The Wind in 2 years.
In all fairness, at least Lebron got to the promise land with no help. Everyone gives Kobe a pass for not getting out of the first round because he has no help, and King James can't get any love for taking worse talent to the finals. Keep in mind, Leastern Conference or not, anyone who watches Laker games would tell you that the Pistons would DESTROY the Lakers in a seven game series last season.
Don't you find it a bit strange, that everywhere Shaq goes success follows? I mean is he just that lucky? How is it that no other star dominant player ever has that kind of luck?
Yao plays with T-Mac, no chip. Kidd, VC, and Jefferson, no chip. AI and Melo, no chip. All these stars are paired up, no rings. Shaq comes into franchises and instantly makes them champs, or in the case of Orlando, takes them to a finals.
pdloos....was he going to come out and say...." I am injured right now and am about 40 lbs overweight, and haven't felt like playing inspired ball for a while now....but I will try to get my act together and hopefully we can make this happen so that people don't realize i still have 40M to make before I get out". Of course he is going to say all the right things given the situation. There is nothing substantiated to prove it. all any one can go on his the fact that he has missed between 20 and 50 games per year the last 4 seasons and his skills have regressed every year. That isn't my personal opinion, that is 100% pure fact. The numbers don't lie and the missed games are there.
I don't know that Shaq's entire legacy is at stake here. He'll still be known as the most physically dominant player ever. Bill Russell and Wilt Chaimberlain were impressive in their era, but O'Neal has been similarly amazing against greater competition.
At this point, he IS a hired gun, but other great players (Gary Payton, Patrick Ewing, the list goes on) have become "serviceable" players yet still maintained their status as the some of the greatest to play the game. I don't expect much from Shaq while he plays for the Suns, where he'll likely retire, but I don't think people will discredit his legacy.
Los Angeles Lakers Coach Phil Jackson couldn't help himself when reporters asked him about Shaquille O'Neal joining the Suns the Los Angeles Times reported.
Jackson was diplomatic when asked about Shaq's fitness, however, he had to toss out at least one line at O'Neal's expense.
Asked how he thought O'Neal would be most effective for Phoenix, the Lakers coach said, "Taking the ball out of bounds and waiting for the other team to get back."
--
Hoffman..... I finished my blog on the Shaq trade...go to alskanballa's blog and check it out. Curious to here your thoughts. The title is "How the west was won"
Shaq doesn't have it. His conditioning sucks and unless he can get the ref's whistles to blow his way (which hasn't this year) he won't stay on the court long enough to do anything.
Lakers fan? I love the way you even have the Logo and everything. You even wrote a bio. Who are you trying to fool?
You're as much a Lakers fan as I am a Celtics fan. At least I'll give credit to their players.
A true fan backs their team's players regardless of their personal view.
I always backed Kareem even though I thought he was arogant and lazy. And you could make the same argument that the Showtime Lakers could have won with someone else. But since those arguments are idiotic. No one in there right mind would. They woulndn't because every single NBA dynasty since day one would be questioned as to why they won and which Hall of Famer was transposable. And thats pretty stupid. What if Mchale would have been replaced by worthy or Kareem with Parish? What if Russel would have been replaced by Chamberlain? What if Jerry Krause actually listened to Michael Jordan's opinion? Jordans would be selling along side Shaq's shoes at K-Mart. What if Horry didnt make that three? What if Brian Shaw didnt get hot against the Blazers? If that happened we wouldnt be talking about Shaq would we? But we would still be talking about Kobe. And that is not a what if.
I'm still waiting for Jordan to have at least a winning season without Pippen, Rodman, or Kerr.
You GR8UN54....er Lakersfan1911 are a Shaq or "anybody but Kobe" fan.
I dont see any Cavs fans complaining about Lebrons non-commitment to defense or lack of freethrow skills. His team lost tonight because he couldnt guard Shane Battier. SHANE BATTIER!
I'll repeat this for the slow kids (that'd be you, tcb):
Being a Kobe fan and being a Laker fan are not one in the same. I am a Laker fan, you wish you were Vanessa. I supported Jerry Buss and Mitch during the summer, you were checking out Kobe during the infamous short shorts Lakers-Celtics game. I am a Laker fan, as most regularly blogging Laker fans will testify to Hoffman included, you are a shmuck.
Much respect to you and your blogging skills, but this is bad, man. At one point you talk about Wade approving/vetoing the Shaq deal, and the whole point you were trying to make was largely incoherent.
Who cares about what Wade thinks? Who is Dwyane Wade? This was Pat Riley's call, but I bet you Shaq played a hand at some point by asking Riley to look for suitors.
Shaq did his job. He went to Miami and won a title. The Heat were an old team, and there have been a lot of roster changes from the championship team. That's not Shaq's fault. This team went down the drain... and Wade's injuries were just as much a part of it as were Shaq's.
That's not Shaq's fault. Situations change. Priorities change. Don't fault the man for that. There's no loyalty in this world, let alone sports.
C'mon...
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on February 7th at 9:01 PM.
I've read some of the dumbest comments I have ever read in my life in this post.
Shaq has absolutely NOTHING to prove to anybody. He is a winner.
Some #### said Shaq didn't do anything in Orlando. Oh right, he just led an EXPANSION team, as a rookie, to 41 wins. Then in his second year, he took that second-year team to 50 wins and a playoff berth. And then in year three, as a 22-year-old, Shaq took the Magic to 57 wins and an NBA Finals.
Who has done that? The year after that was his last in Orlando. Know why? Because he was a FREE AGENT and the Magic couldn't afford to keep him.
He then signed with the Lakers, where in eight seasons, he won three championships.
Then, again, money became an issue and the Lakers couldn't retain both Shaq and Kobe. Naturally they went with the younger, and cheaper, option.
Shaq then went to the Heat, where in three full seasons, he won one NBA title.
You guys are retarded if you think this guy has something to prove. Retarded if you think the final two seasons of his AMAZING career will decide his legacy.
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on February 7th at 9:27 PM.
Sorry I dont understand jaghofff. Maybe GR8UN54 can translate.
And you are no Lakers fan. You might think you are but you're not.
Lets say I humor you.
Like I said without Horry making that shot against Sacramento. Without Shaw getting hot against the Blazers. We wouldnt be having this conversation. But we would still be talking about Bryant.
Anyway,
Kobe was right about Shaq's conditioning coming back to haunt him. The Lakers were lucky that Shaq's selfishness didnt cause anybody a career ending injury. Miami wasnt so lucky. When players have to make up for someone of Shaq's caliber lack of conditioning, injuries happen. Those players' job gets harder. Dwayne Wade's shoulder wont be the same again because he had to carry a 350 pound lazy asss on it.
Sorry, but legacy doesnt make up for that.
(so Lakersfan1911 can understand)
Shack bad. Shack lazy. No want work hard. D-WADE hurt cuz Shack lazy.
Shaq's winning percentage is neck-to-neck with Bill Russell's.
Shaq is one of the top two winningest players in NBA history.
And now, at the very end of his career, at age 36, we're questioning his legacy? We're calling him a mercenary? A "hit man"?
That's some superbly ignorant nonsense.
Those of you hating on Shaq do so only out of spite.
The TRUTH -- not your opinion or mine -- is that Shaq is a WINNER.
Phil Jackson? Pat Riley? LOL. Talk about opportunists. I'd like to see these guys coach teams that aren't stacked with talent. I would have titles coaching Jordan's Bulls and Shaq's Lakers.
C'mon. Whoever credits Phil Jackson or Pat Riley or Penny or Kobe or Wade for Shaq's success is an ####.
Replace Penny with any comparable player, and the Magic still go to the Finals. Replace Kobe with Ray Allen or Paul Pierce or any other solid two-guard, and the Lakers win titles. Replace Wade with LeBron or Arenas or whomever, and the Heat still win a title.
SHAQ stirs the drink.
You guys do basketball an injustice by even acknowledging such nonsense.
tcbdog
Feb 7, 2008
9:30 PM Sorry I dont understand jaghofff. Maybe GR8UN54 can translate.
*************
actually no. i don't understand jaghofff. i have been trying hard to figure out exactly what the point is for quite some time. but he just continues to talk in circles all the time. just like you tcbdog.
hoffman hates my guts lil' doggie, but i hoffmantee you that he wishes you to go away much more than he wishes me to go away.
put the pipe down lil' doggie. woof, woof. you are foaming at the mouf.
that goes for you too baller alaskan. you are embarassing hoffman.
"Shaq's mind is willing. The question is whether his body will follow."
The reason it won't is because of his work ethic. When Karl Malone's mind was willing in '04, did his body follow? This from a dude who was always in tip top shape. Shaq is not realizing the competition out West that's about to hit him like a Mack Truck.
It wasn't that long ago that SHAQ guaranteed two more titles to the city of Miami. We all know what became of that.
There is all this hoopla and hype surrounding the deal but frankly, I am not impressed.
Shaq can get all the standing o's he wants in PHX and he can point to his ring finger but all he's doing is using his appeal and star power to win over the Suns fans.
You point out a key quote HOFFMAN, " 'Even though he is not getting the ball as much as he wants, we need him to help lead this team in other ways, whether it's rebounding the ball or passing the ball the way he knows how to pass'"
In due time, Shaq will start saying "I need touches" or "The offense needs to go through me". The reality is the SUNS got Shaq to do two things, to rebound and to inbound, and he ain't gonna like it.
We see right through you Shaq. You've always been known to talk the talk but sadly enough, this time around you won't be able to walk the walk.
That "hired gun" you're talkin about has become the "naked gun." The guy who can no longer get off the floor is nothing but pure comedic entertainment at this point.
Shaq, at this point in his career, is like a fixed up Honda Civic with a complete body kit, coilover suspension, premium audio, racing stickers, the works. Problem is, it's an automatic - all show and no go.
Last edited by J-DIZZLE on February 7th at 9:54 PM.
ALASKANBALLA: "Shaq is very proud..to the point of arrogant and feels he allready knows what it takes. I don't see him respecting Mike in that way. "
What a great point! Shaq will undoubtedly take advantage of his time in PHX and the 40+ million that's left on his contract and one way he'll do it is to say "I need touches", which will throw off the entire Suns organization.
You seem to always make excellent observations. good stuff man.
Last edited by J-DIZZLE on February 7th at 10:08 PM.
Why don't I clear this up once and for all so everyone can understand what's really up.
SHAQ was one of the key cogs in the Lakers and Heat championship teams. This is true.
SHAQ was a force in his prime and there was no one who could stop him. This is true.
SHAQ is a winner. This is true.
The SHAQ of old is back. This is FALSE. And that's why nobody will be surprised.
And to TRAINONTHEBALL, who obviously thinks SHAQ was the ONLY reason the Lakers and Heat won titles:
You say: " Replace Penny with any comparable player, and the Magic still go to the Finals. Replace Kobe with Ray Allen or Paul Pierce or any other solid two-guard, and the Lakers win titles. Replace Wade with LeBron or Arenas or whomever, and the Heat still win a title. "
What is your proof of this? Did you decide to play GM and simulate on your Playstation every season since '95 and create your own rosters around Shaq? You can never underestimate the just-as-hungry-and-motivated role players who played with Shaq on all his great teams. I don't have to name every single one of them because you know damn well the contributions that were made by players not named O'Neal.
"SHAQ was a force in his prime and there was no one who could stop him. This is true."
That's all I ever say about Shaq. She is the ultimate winner, the most dominant ever in his prime, and people who refuse to acknowledge that have problems.
Well they have a few problems, tcb obviously has too many problems to list.
Shaq did great things for the LA. He brought the Lakers three championships. But he let them down because it was his lack of commitment and decision to delay surgery before the quest for their 4th straight that ended the dynasty.
There's no denying that.
If Shaq had stayed committed, the Lakers could have very well won 5 straight NBA championships.
"In all fairness, at least Lebron got to the promise land with no help."
And why was he able to get to the "promised land?"
Because he plays in the Eastern Conference. Don't kid yourself, you know the game better than that. If LeBron was in the West, he'd be out in the 1st round every year. Think he could have beaten the Suns the previous two seasons?
I don't.
I don't think Shaq is "lucky." He's earned everything he's accomplished. But he's also been very fortunate to have played with Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, & Dwyane Wade. Kobe and Wade wouldn't have gotten their rings without Shaq but the opposite is true as well.
Last edited by Hoffman on February 7th at 11:04 PM.
Maybe this post was a little incoherent. I rambled a little bit but my point was that this ending in Phoenix WILL define Shaq's legacy as much as anything he's accomplished.
Like I said, no matter how much everyone would love to remember MJ's perfect ending against Utah, his time in Washington tainted his legacy.
If Shaq fails to deliver in Phoenix or is denied by Kobe's Lakers, that will be what people remember most.
TRAINONTHEBALL: "The Bulls do not win a title without Michael Jordan. They could however have won a title without Scottie Pippen."
Again, how do you know this? Don't forget that PIPPEN was a perennial first team ALL-DEFENSIVE teamer. If it was Jordan and Paul Pressey, does Chicago win a title? Don't think so.
I can say the BULLS don't threepeat without RODMAN.
You ask why? Because the previous year, the BULLS couldn't beat ORLANDO without Rodman. Then they traded Perdue for the WORM and the rest is history.
You can't say that SHAQ wins three without KOBE especially after witnessing all the clutch plays KOBE made for the LAKERS between 99-03. You cannot deny KOBE's value to the Lakers and say that if they had Paul Pierce and Shaq they would've won three.
There is simply no answer to both of our arguments because history cannot be changed. We can only analyze what happened based on facts and the facts are, Kobe made more game winning or game changing plays than Shaq did when they were both Lakers. Shaq was the DOMINATOR and INTIMIDATOR and KOBE was the CLOSER. End of story.
Last edited by J-DIZZLE on February 7th at 11:17 PM.
I'm with Train on this one, Shaq's legacy is decided. Regardless of what happens here in Phoenix, Shaq goes down as one of the game's great winners and a player who was, in his prime, the most unstoppable post presence the game has ever seen.
Train's point about Kobe is valid. At that point in his career, Kobe was very good, but there were any number of comparable players you could've replaced him with. He was not, at that time, the kind of dual scoring/defensive threat that he is now. The verdict is still out on Kobe's career, but during those title runs you could've replaced him with any all-star shooting guard and the drop-off wouldn't have been that huge. You couldn't have replaced Shaq with a comparable player because THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PLAYER COMPARABLE TO SHAQ IN HIS PRIME. You can argue if Wade or Shaq was more influential to that title, you can't argue Shaq/Kobe, it isn't close.
I hated watching Shaq play in those Laker days when he just overpowered people, but I can respect what he accomplished. There are far worse "hit men" in the NBA than Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq's legend is secure, whether he wins rings 5 and 6 in Phoenix or not.
I love basketball. While many basketball fans enjoy the month of March, I prefer the months of April, May, and June. I look forward to productive chats, heated debates, and honest opinions.
