Bread and Circuses
by: Dudski
Second Best
Jun 19, 2008 | 5:21PM | report this
Greatest players in each sport. Twenty seconds to think. Ready set go.

Odds are many of you named Ruth in baseball, Michael Jordan in basketball, Jim Brown in football, Gretzky in hockey, Pele in soccer, Tiger Woods in golf, Pete Sampras and Martina Navratilova in tennis, and Dale Earhardt in NASCAR. OK, throw in Secretariat in horse racing with Willie Shoemaker along for the ride.

Miss anyone?

Most of it is conventional wisdom which changes over time.
But is it right? And if these guys are number one, who is number two? And who on that list makes a good claim at possibly being the best?

Baseball. Barry Bonds wrote himself out of this spot. Who can say what he's guilty of? Who can say what he isn't? Ty Cobb? Madison Avenue hasn't invented the PR firm which could reform his image. Not much power, either. Don't talk to me about Alex Rodriquez. We don't have that much time. Ted Williams? Not a complete player. Hank Aaron? Wagner, or a man who might well be the best ever, Nap Lajoie?

So, who's in second? I'll take Christy Mathewson. Before Ruth came along, Mathewson made New York fall in love with baseball. Mathewson set all kinds of records, but more than that gave baseball respectability with the upper class (and the chattering class-the media). Quite possibly the best pitcher of all-time, a master of control who never stood taller than in the spotlight of the biggest games. Erudite, largely a cipher, and the coolest customer of them all

Football. People get sentimental about Unitas, and he was the first great TV quarterback. But not as good as Elway. Jerry Rice is Cal Ripken. Joe Montana the definition of a professional. Lawrence Taylor a force of nature. Maybe Manning or Brady? Before it's over that argument will be made for one or both.

I'll go with #### Butkus. Taylor had more talent, but Butkus was football. If you ever get a chance to watch one of his games on video, keep an eye and an ear open. Hard to describe, but a Butkus tackle sounded like a car wreck. Forward momentum ceased. Strong men flinched. Butkus and Brown had the hearts of lions.

All that aside, it always bugs me that Terry Bradshaw's name isn't higher on these lists. The man worked hard to harness enormous talents and won Super Bowls. The Steelers without Bradshaw would not have been any where near successful. Put aside the laughing image. This was a great, great quarterback.

Basketball. Russell for all the banners in the old Boston Garden, Chamberlin for how he changed the game. Jabbar for the sustained excellence. Bird and Johnson, linked forever in time as competitors and showmen. All were great.

I'd throw two other names in, along with a qualification. I don't believe Jordan was the best. Maybe not even in the top three. I've seen Julius Erving play and Doctor J. would eat Jordan's lunch. Heresy aside, the best all-around player the game has seen may be Oscar Robertson. He had it all. Scorer, tremendous assist man, solid rebounder, tenacious defender. If not the best, then certainly no slouch at #2.

Hockey. Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull were tremendous scorers. Rocket Richard maybe the most glamorous player ever. Too many goalies to name.

This is easy, though. It has to be Bobby Orr at #2, maybe even #1. The pure excitement of Orr rushing out of the Boston zone into open ice is perhaps unmatched in sports. Fifteen thousand people catching their breath at one time. Pure magic. Skills rivaling Gretzky's from a defenseman. Hard to explain to anyone brought up on today's game. There may be another Gretzky. There will never be another Bobby Orr.

Soccer. A subject I know little to nothing about. I don't put Beckham in Pele's league, however, and someone who knows more history might even suggest two or three better. Pele dominated his sport in the way Ruth did baseball for a time.

Golf. Palmer or Nicklaus. Toss a coin. I'd take Nicklaus on talent. If they somehow could be matched in their prime I'm not sure Nicklaus wouldn't have beaten him if the played just once. Over a stretch Woods is better, but he never had other great players to press him the way Nicklaus did.

Tennis. I suppose you're supposed to say Rod Laver, who may have been the best. I'd go with Bjorn Borg. And if I had to have someone go out and win one match, not sure that Jimmy Conners wouldn't find a way to win. The women's side of the coin is much clearer. If not Navaratilova then Evert.

NASCAR. I think we forget RIchard Petty all too easily. Behind the image o####ood natured man in retirement is a record of unparalleled excellence. Earnhardt had the advantage of being around when the rest of the country discovered stock car racing. Petty was there at the beginning of the climb and won on guts and smarts.

Horse Racing. Secretariat may not be the greatest horse of all time, but he had the greatest film clip, pulling away from the field by what seemed like miles. Man of War, though, could easily be the best. What I wouldn't give to have seen them race.

Jockeys? I'll put one name in. Pat Day. Here it may be sentiment on my part, having seen Day ride and admiring his work for years. He perfected what is simply known as "the Pat Day ride", always knowing exactly when to make his move. Was he the best? I don't know, but he's the best I ever saw.

Number two is not a bad place to be. We don't remember number two, but we can always argue number one. It part of what makes sports so much fun.




16 Comments | Add a comment   categories: mlb, nfl, nba, NHL
 
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edclinch
Jun 19, 2008
6:04 PM
Boxing?

Many people that I know believe that Maradona was better than Pele.

Who knows?

And check the spelling of Wilt. I think Shaq could beat either one and I would LOVE to see MJ versus DR J or the Big O.

Nice job. PS: I reposted my 21 questions to you.

edclinch
Jun 19, 2008
6:05 PM
On the Saint blog under "Other".

ian2813
Jun 19, 2008
6:23 PM
Great article. I'd have to think about who I'd pick for numbers one and two in each of these sports, but I like your selections.

Second place isn't as good as first, but it usually means you're no slouch. I once had the idea of writing a post about the greatest second-place teams in baseball history. Back in the pre-Wild Card days there were several teams that won 100 games and didn't even qualify for the postseason (1993 Giants, 1909 Cubs, 1980 Orioles, 1961 Tigers, off the top of my head). Perhaps I should revisit that idea.

gcoach
Jun 19, 2008
7:22 PM
Dudski - Orr is a great choice unless you look at how he changed the game. You reference Orr coming out of the Bruin zone on a PATENTED end-to-end rush. Defenseman didn't play the game like that before Orr. They weren't that involved in the offense. Because of Orr we had Brad Park and Paul Coffey and guys who run the offense from the blue line. Number one or numer two? Tough to call here. Gretzky has the numbers but Orr MAY have had a bigger impact on the game. Great Dudski post...again.

Hoffman
Jun 19, 2008
7:30 PM
I think MJ is the greatest of all-time. Although I wasn't fortunate enough to see Dr. J or the 'Big O' in their primes.

My #2 in basketball is Magic or Kareem. Maybe Bird.

bosox61
Jun 19, 2008
8:47 PM
Dudski -

I'm past 60 years old so I have seen most of the guys you have mentioned. I'll offer some opinions.

BASEBALL - Mickey Mantle was the most incredible player I have ever seen until he lost his wheels. Willie Mays was close. But nobody has clearly dominated the game as much as Babe Ruth did; except Bonds. Disregarding everything that has happened outside of the foul lines, Bonds is the best player to have ever put on a uniform (the rat-####).

FOOTBALL - Don't know who to pick but Butkis is a great choice.

BASKETBALL - I saw Oscar play many times and he was in my opinion the best who ever played. He just played with crappy teams until he went to Milwaukee. It's frightening to think what he would have done if there was a three-point field goal back then. Russell dominated in his time but i would have to give #2 to Kareem.

HOCKEY - I agree with coach. Bobby Orr was incredible and comes in right behind Gretsky.

GOLF - It's only Nicklaus and Woods. And then everybody else.

sexysportsgirlfromus
Jun 19, 2008
8:52 PM
Who care? I just saw this guy is dating with several hotties on the HOT celebrity & millionaire dating site 'RICHMATCHMAKING.COM'. MOST of them are very rich.

slshusker
Jun 19, 2008
9:12 PM
Ok, I see Ripkin as HUGELY over rated because his DADDY kept him in games when he should have taken a seat, for the good of the team!

It's hard to vouch for players we've never seen...but what about when their stats dwarfed the competition.

Babe Ruth was the best baseballer, ever.

Woods is the king of golf.

Lessee, Gretzky.

Montana gets my vote in football.

Jordan in baskeyball.

Boudreaux Thibedeaux in LA cow tipping.

degraff
Jun 19, 2008
10:46 PM
I could never vote for Bonds. Mantle is a good choice.
Football I have to go with Barry Sanders as a game changer. Never new what was going to happen with the ball in his hands.
Basketball there are many, Wilt and Kareem, Pistol Pete, The big O.
Curling I have to go with slshusker or even JW.
Boxing was incredible in the 70' with Ali. This was fun you made me think back to some of my boyhood idols.

StevoinHTown
Jun 20, 2008
5:43 AM
Dudski..Nice to see SOMEBODY give Bradshaw his props..
In Baseball..I'd go with Williams or Mays..yer Mathewson pick ain't bad..I jus' think of everyday players on this and kinda like Bradshaw in football..lotta people overlook Bob Gibson..dude wuzza bad-as_s...

Spurcse
Jun 20, 2008
7:19 AM
The people you named are the face of their sport.
They acquired this distinction because of their impact on the sport.

Some because they were the first really big star in their sport, some because they were the one who popularized the sport, and some because they were just the best their sport ever had to offer.

They are the first ones people think of when their sport is mentioned. They dominated their sport at the time they played. This does not have to mean that they could compete in the sport today. That frankly is immaterial.

It just means that they were so dominate in the era in which they played that they transcended the ages and are still remembered today.

Picking a second in each sport is impossible. You don't have to think when you pick number 1. That player just pops into your head. But when you think of number 2, you have to choose between several players, and I think that kind of makes the question mute. If you have to choose, there is no clear cut choice.

twashk
Jun 20, 2008
8:31 AM
Great list. I like your Butkus pick - even on film, you can almost see a cloud of dread settle over the opposing quarterback when he's nearby. The Doctor J pick was a good one too; even though I only got to see the tail end of his career, I'd put him ahead of MJ. Stevo had a good one above, I thought - if baseball had a Butkus, I'd say it was Gibson (at least judging from listening to the players who stood in the batter's box against him). Pure intimidation to go with power and shocking control.

I'm not sure I buy the "Woods doesn't have the same competition argument" for Nicklaus and Palmer's superiority. More people play golf now than did in those days, so I think you could argue that back then the tour had a bunch of mediocre players and four who were head-and-shoulders better, compared to today's relatively uniform group of players playing at a very high level. Just a matter of numbers - if 50 people are competing for five jobs, you'll tend to get a superior five than you would if ten people competed for the same slots.

broblog
Jun 20, 2008
11:06 AM
Baseball: Ah, where is Willie Mays? He was probably the best all around player to ever lace up the spikes!

Dudski, come on, man - how could you not put Mario Lemieux on the hockey list? 690 career goals and 1,033 assistisssses? If he did not have the back issues that plagued him throughout his career, he would be the game's all time leading scorer - not the Great One!

Good blog!

BleedPRPL&GLD
Jun 20, 2008
2:34 PM
Hank Aaron

Joe Montana

Kareem or Magic

Mario Lemiuex

Soccer...who cares?

Nicklaus

Federer

NECKCAR is not a sport

Don't follow the ponies

Mo Malone
Jun 20, 2008
2:40 PM
Dr. J was not near MJ. MJ was such a better team player. I also believe the Dr. had a much better team. The big O then well no one had ever won the series MVP three times in a row before. MJ did it twice. Yes I know Shaq did it once.

blue@orange
Jun 20, 2008
4:17 PM
Willie Mays
Jim Brown
Wilt Chamberlain
Super Mario
Soccer? Whats a soccer
Jack Nicklaus
Bjorn Borg
David Pearson
Seatle Slew

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