I've never played organized football. I don't know from first hand experience what motivates players. But I do have a finely tuned nonsense detector, and it went off when Michael Irvin said Giants running back Tiki Barber's plans to retire would make him a less effective leader.
Irvin, and most in the sports media, subscribe to the myth that football players are sheep. They walk upright, appear to speak and reason at a level similar to the rest of us, and make amazing split second decisions. But, sheep they must be if they require so many "leaders" from the coaching staff to veteran players just to get through a single game.
Irvin, whose reasoning ability didn't prevent him from showing up in court wearing a mink coat when on trial for cocaine possession, sees it like this. "If I am in the line of battle and Tiki comes to me and says, 'Come on,
give me what you have!' I'm going to look at him and say, 'Aww, shut
up. What are you talking about? You are quitting on us.' This stuff
will come out on the sideline."
Barber is not quitting on his team in mid-season. He isn't even taking plays off, as some star players have done. Set that aside. What makes Irvin think what players say to each other during games really makes a difference?
Imagine you are the center for the Giants. You're up against a nose tackle who has 40 pounds on you. He isn't just big, he's quick, he's mean, and he may be nuts. Between plays he keeps carrying on these conversations that sound like Hanibal Letchter on steroids. All night he's driven your neck back into your spinal column and moved around you like a Panzer division in 1939 going around French infantry. In the middle of the pain and panic, Tiki looks at you and says 'Come on, give me what you have!"
My immediate reaction would be, "Bleep you, make some plays and get us off the field before this maniac kills me." More likely, I'd just tune it out. It's part of the background noise of the game. Something your focus doesn't allow you to waste time on. Like crowd noise, screaming coaches, or how the cheerleaders look. Start paying attention to any of that and you're going to be tasting the turf on a regular basis.
Players yell stuff all the time. Listen to any NFL films production and you'll hear every cliche in the book. Usually the players yelling the most are not the sharpest tools in the shed. I'm sure some of it sinks in, some of it sets a mood, but if it's non-stop for 3 hours (and it appears to be) what effect does any of it have?
Tiki Barber is a leader because of what he does on the field. He is a leader because he can take an offense that is in a hole and get it out. Barber can change attitudes and effort by results and by overcoming his opponents. None of which has anything to do with Michael Irvin's understanding of leadership, and none of which is affected by his team knowing he plans to retire at the end of the season.
Football is a game of emotion and attitudes. Coaches put alot of time and effort into communicating with players. But I'm guessing the communication that deals with basic needs, like the need to remain employed, or the need to feel good about how you're playing, trumps the inspirational speeches hands down. That's the communication that goes on in practice, not on the field.
Even Michael Irvin was a leader. Not when he was running his mouth like an outboard motor, but when he was making catches in traffic and changing momentum. Take away that ability to make catches, take away the game changing plays, and nobody would have listened. Just like nobody should be listening to him now.
in this your wrong. i have played organized football, and basketball. i serve on a team, right now. i've also had guys quit on me. team chemistry is affected when a guy leaves without notice. the fact that ya'll support tiki, supports my idea that there are no TEAMS in football. Tiki hurt his 'team' by forcing their hand in front of the entire nation. he compromised the leadership midseason. to the young guys, he's the perfect example of how not to handle retirement. this isnt baseball, this is football. how will we even know he's playing his hardest? Why risk getting hurt - that is the reason he's leaving, right? he has nothing to gain by going all out. like the jets. Giants: "do we need a new RB or can the current backup handle the load? damn, we really needed an 'X' but now because of Tiki, we have to draft a 'Y'" he's compromised every single aspect of the giants organization. and he's done it for no reason at all. he could have waited. he could take sent an email, voicemail, snail mail, flown a kite, sent up smoke signals... anything to give his organization the idea they might need a another RB. but he didnt. his actions say to the team 'i know we'll never see the superbowl, so i'm outta here.' he's healthy, performing well and 1 good season from winning the big game. he #### his team, because he was thinking of himself - which i heard was a crime around here. or is it just a crime when TO thinks of himself? maybe Tiki can get away with this cuz he has that big Uncle Tom, Driving Miss daisey smile?
Last edited by demonicume on October 29th at 6:56 AM.
say what you want about Irvin and his pink coat - i'm not sure why his coat makes any difference, and is further evidence of a significant cultural divide (you should see what my mother wears to church) - he NEVER let his team down. he controlled the young guys and showed them the right way to handle football. he was never a contract jerk, he was never insubbordinate. he was always a team player. Tiki is thinking about tiki right now. maybe someone can explain to me why its ok for him but not ok for the other black players?
Demon, I see where you are coming from somewhat. Tiki should have just said nothing until the end of the year. It's not like he is getting a send off at each game. Why was retirement talk even broched by the media? Did he leak it to someone? Maybe this is all a farce, to bring attention to Tiki for his broadcasting career.
I don't think Barber actually intended for it to come out. I'll go back and look at the details. He didn't deny it once it did, so I guess he could have just said he hadn't decided. I don't think players worry about who will be around next year when they are fighting hard in the current season.
The Irvin mink coat thing isn't cultural (in my opinion). It's just that defendants (whatever their race) usually try to avoid flashing cash during trials. They generally all come in very understated. I think when you're up on cocaine charges it usually a bad idea to come in looking like a stereotypical coke user.
Got a laugh when you talked about what your mom wears to church. Growing up in the South I've seen it all, and it crosses every cultural line. I'm sure she's a good woman, because she raised a very articulate son.
I don't think Barber actually intended for it to come out. I'll go back and look at the details. He didn't deny it once it did, so I guess he could have just said he hadn't decided. I don't think players worry about who will be around next year when they are fighting hard in the current season.
The Irvin mink coat thing isn't cultural (in my opinion). It's just that defendants (whatever their race) usually try to avoid flashing cash during trials. They generally all come in very understated. I think when you're up on cocaine charges it usually a bad idea to come in looking like a stereotypical coke user.
Got a laugh when you talked about what your mom wears to church. Growing up in the South I've seen it all, and it crosses every cultural line. I'm sure she's a good woman, because she raised a very articulate son.
i didnt mean cultural divide in the white vs black, i mean cultural divide in the black versus white. mike, like a few other high profile african americans, thought it was ok to be rick james in the court room. it was crazy and he was 'smelling himself a bit' like we say back home. the only part i enjoyed about church growing up was what those old ladies wore. mike should have known better.
articulate? hardly, not enough to spell my point out like i meant it. sorry about that.
i dont like the way Tiki singled Tom Jackson and Mike Irvin out. a lot of people are saying the same thing about him, but he called out Mike and Tom. while he has a right to say what he wants... he didnt call joe theisman or john madden idiots. i'm wondering if he's fallen into the oprah world where one can spends a lot od time singling out other blacks but kow-towing to overall white media. its something we talk about amongst ourselves all the time. whether its tiger wood or mariah carey, the first thing famous blacks do is derogate one another. Joe Theisman IS an ####, when tiki says so, i'll drop the 'slave mentality' thing.
I agree with you on Tiki calling those guys idiots. They wouldn't be holding down those jobs if they were, and there are better ways of saying what he was trying to get across.
I still say articulate. I'm justing having one of those "slow on the uptake" days where I don't take everything in properly.
Yeah, Tiki Barber didn't want to reveal that he was retiring until the season was over. A couple of reporters pressed him and he just let it out, if I recall correctly.
Most businesses appreciate notice that extends beyond the standard 2 week variety. You could just argue that Tiki is a very courteous employee.
From what I've seen, it appears that he didn't intend on it to be released to the press. There is no way of knowing that for sure, of course. But he was asked about it, and gave a straight answer. Better than many of those coaches that dance around those questions, when they know good & well that they are leaving for more money at the first opportunity.
I can't imagine an NFL football player that doesn't love the game. I would think that a player that knows he is in his last year would be motivated to win it all. I seriously doubt that he's out there on the field, thinking about how to avoid a hard hit in the interest of his post-football career.
So demon, while I disagree with you on that point...I (shaking head in disbelief) have to agree with you on another point. As much as I don't care Michael Irvin & his attitude, and off-the-field antics...I would agree that he didn't let his team down (other than off the field trouble, which still counts in my book). He did nothing to hurt team chemistry, in fact...he helped build it.
I think that retirement talk should be saved for the off-season. The media is focused on it, no doubt. But it hasn't really seemed to affect the team though.
Thanks Shooter. I liked Demon's point of view, too. The comments back and forth add so much more than just having a blog post lay out there like old fish. Believe me, I've thrown enough trout out there to know!
for the most part, i dont see how anyone can have a problem with barber letting it be known that he intends on retiring at season's end.
as for quitting because he doesnt think the giants can win a championship, or fears serious injury. or he isnt the biggest star on the team, i think thats just ####. i dont think he gives 2 #### if he's the biggest star, or that he COULD suffer a major injury, i think he just prefers to go into retirement healthy, if possible, with a butt load of money, and enjoy life.
maybe he doesnt even like football that much, and his real passion is journalism, which kind of looks like might be the case here.
1 other thing...in terms of him being less of a leader, or quitting on his teammates, and causing disruption for management by them knowing 6 months ahead of time they need to address the RB position via the draft or free agency, i just dont understand how that is disrupting them at all. i believe it only helps them. seriously, would it be better for him to wait until a week before the draft, or a week after the draft? or maybe wait until just before training camp, as barry sanders did....thinking back, there werent too many people who thought he did the right thing either, and i can surely tell you that not being able to decide at all to play or not isnt the way to go either, just ask the packers (if they'll give you an honest answer) about brett favre, or, just ask me.
the thing with michael irvin is, he couldnt always be counted on either. other than the fact that he was a big enough star that the law wouldnt dare go against him, or jerry jones, and lock him up.
how were his teammates to know if he'd be on the field or in jail? or suspended by the league? he's no more a positive leader than barber. at least with barber, he's going out because he wants to pursue other interests...that dont include having to claim the crack pipe in his glove box belongs to his friend.
I thought Irvin's response was a little weird, but maybe he was just trying to give Tiki something to thing about in return for calling him an ####.
I know many fans think Tiki will be hanging it up "before his time," but I see it as his call. When I heard the news, I was thinking that his teammates might respond with a little more effort to give him something extra... Imagining Bettis' sort of "implied" impending retirement last year.
Maybe I'm naive. I am one of those loudmouths on the field, so I can attest that I get tuned out! :)
I doubt the Giants think of Tiki as quitting... isn't he leading the league in rushing?
Dudski ...... For his part I doubt how Irvin could really feel that Barber is really the leader on the Giants' team. If anything the leader of that team would either have to be Strahan or young Eli Manning. Barber was never one who claimed to be a leader nor would he want to be burdened with that role. What he truly relishes is playing the game and with an unbridled passion.
Dudski ..... Eli does have a presence aout him and both Burress and Strahan ahve remarked how vocal he's become about the team's play at times. To me that shows a great sign of maturity from the young player. If anything it proves he's willing to stand up and be counted and take responsibility for his actions.
