Time to continue the My List special, and, in honor of the blazing heat that grips my neighborhood, we'll unveil team #12, the Phoenix Suns. Here is the Suns' lineup.
Starters:
PG: Steve Nash: When Nash signed with Phoenix for his second tour of duty in 2004 (he also played for the team from 1996-98) after leaving Dallas, no one felt he would be the marquee signing of the year. But Nash sparked the team as the Suns improved from 29 wins the year before he arrived to 62after he came, as Nash won league MVP honors with averages of 15.5 PPG and 11.5 APG. Nash would repeat as MVP in 2005-06, raising his scoring to 18.8 PPG and still averaging 10.5 APG. Nash has led Phoenix to two Western Conference finals, and has made five All-Star teams.
SG: Paul Westphal: Before becoming Suns head coach, Westphal was a solid player for the team in the 1970s. Acquired in a trade from Boston for Charlie Scott in 1975, Westphal helped Phoenix reach the NBA Finals in his first season, and it was his knowledge of the rules (and ways to bend them) that allowed Gar Heard to hit his famous jumper in game 5 of that series to force triple overtime (the rule regarding timeouts called when none are available has since been changed). Westphal averaged better than 20 PPG in each of his five seasons in Phoenix, made five All-Star teams overall, and helped Phoenix to a conference finals berth in 1979 before being traded to Seattle for Dennis Johnson in 1980.
C: Amare Stoudemire: There just wasn't much to choose from here, so Stoudemire makes the cut. Drafted #9 overall in 2002, Stoudemire won ROY that season with averages of 13.5 PPG and 8.8 RPG, hepling Phoenix reach the playoffs. In year three, his averages went up to 26 PPG and 8.9 RPG, before he underwent microfracture surgery and missed most of the 2005-06 season. Some feared that he'd never recover, but Stoudemire proved them wrong, and had a 20.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG season. Just 26 years old, Stoudemire has at least 5-7 more great seasons ahead of him.
SF: Connie Hawkins: In his heyday, Hawkins was the Julius Erving of the day; he was graceful through the air and a class act to boot. However, Hawkins was denied entry into the NBA initially after his name was linked to a gambling scandal in college (for the record, Hawkins was exonorated). After flings in the short-lived ABL, the Globetrotters, and the ABA, Hawkins was allowed into the NBA with the Suns in 1969. Though he wasn't quite the same magnificent athlete, Hawkins made the All-Star team four times in his four full seasons in Phoenix, with his first year there being his best; he averaged 20.9 PPG, 9.1 RPG and 4.5 APG as he helped the Suns make the playoffs for the first time. Hawkins was eventually traded to the Lakers in 1974, and eighteen years later, he was inducted into the HOF.
PF: Charles Barkley: The "Round Mound of Rebound" was invigorated after being traded to Phoenix from the 76ers for three players (including Jeff Hornacek) in 1992. Barkley, freed from a no-win situation in Philly, had the best all-around season in his first year in the valley of the sun, averaging 25.6 PPG, 12.2 RPG and a career high 5.1 APG, as Phoenix finished with the best record in the NBA and made the Finals before losing to the Bulls. Barkley captured his only league MVP that season. Overall, he averaged a double-double each season in Phoenix (four years), made the All-Star team each year, was All-NBA first team in 1993, and led Phoenix to two division titles, before being traded to Houston in 1996.
Reserves:
PG: Kevin Johnson: "KJ" was the motor of the potent Suns teams of the late 80s and through the 90s. Acquired in a trade from Cleveland that sent Larry Nance to Richfield, Johnson exploded after being traded, averaging 20.4 PPG and 12.2 APG (the assists totals would remain his career high) in 1988-89 after averages of 9.2 and 5.5 his rookie year. It was the first of five straight double-double average years for Johnson, who would make three All-Star teams, would be named All-NBA second twice (1989-90), and start for the 1993 finalists.
SG: Walter Davis: The "Grayhound" was a player Michael Jordan looked up to (and why not, they're both former Tar Heels). And Davis had a spectacular career. As a rookie in 1977-78, Davis averaged 24.2 PPG and 6 RPG, winning ROY honors. Davis would average better than 20 PPG five times as a Sun (his rookie year average was his career high), and would make six All-Star teams. He'd also be named All-NBA second team twice (1978-79) and help Phoenix reach two Western finals (1979, 1984).
C: Alvan Adams: Again, not much to choose from, but Adams was a solid center for Phoenix. Adams would win ROY honors in 1975-76 with averages of 19 PPG and 9.1 RPG (ironically, both would be his career best averages) as Phoenix advanced to the Finals that year. Over his 13 year career, Adams made one All-Star team (1976), and would average 14.1 PPG and 7 RPG. And he would help Phoenix reach two more conference finals.
SF: Dan Majerle: Some may clamor for Shawn Marion, but how can you completely ignore "Thunder Dan"? Majerle, drafted #14 overall in 1988 (he wasn't the Suns' first choice; Tim Perry was), was a spark plug off the bench, and would play his best basketball in the mid-90s; he averaged at least 15.6 PPG each year from 1992-95, and would make three All-Star teams (1992-93, 1995). He also would tie a then-Finals record of six three pointers in game 3 of the 1993 Finals, as the Suns won in triple overtime. Majerle would finish his career with the Suns in 2004 and became a local basketball analyst.
PF: Tom Chambers: Chambers would have some of his best stats years after being traded to the Suns from Seattle in 1988. In his first year there, Chambers averaged 25.7 PPG and 8.4 RPG (the rebounds would be a career high) as Phoenix reahced the conference finals. The follwing year, he had a career high 27.2 PPG as the Suns once again reached the third round. Chambers made the All-Star team three times in Phoenix (1989-91), was All-NBA second team twice (1989-90) and was a reserve on the team that reached the 1993 Finals.
Coaches:
Head Coach: John MacLeod: MacLeod wasd an unknown coach when Phoenix tapped him to replace Jerry Colangelo in 1973, but within three years, MacLeod piloted the Suns to their first ever NBA Finals against the Celtics. MacLeod would help Phoenix reach the conference finals on two other occsions, and the team had seven winning seasons (and four with 50 or more) in his 13 full seasons there. For his career, he won 707 games.
Assistants: Cotton Fitzsimmons, Paul Westphal, Mike D'Antoni: Fitzsimmons coached the Suns on three seperate occasions (1970-72, 1988-92, and 1995-96), and in each full season he coached there, the team won at least 48 games. He also coached the team to two conference finals (1989-90). Westphal, the former star player, took over for Cotton in 1992, and in his first season, Westphal directed the team to the NBA Finals and won 62 games. Westphal won at least 56 games in each of his three full seasons, and won two Pacific division titles. D'Antoni, hired as an interim coach in 2003-04, was named COY in his first full season as the Suns went from 29 to 62 wins. The Suns won over 50 games each year he coached (over 60 twice) and made two Western Conference Finals.
Honorable Mentions:
SF: Shawn Marion: Great talent, but not a Suns lifer, and more of a product of the system (I know this will get complaints).
PF: Larry Nance: He had a great run in Phoenix (twice over 20 PPG) but he is much better known as a Cavalier.
C: James Edwards: Solid C, but is better known as a Piston.
SG: Dennis Johnson: Solid stats (18, 19 and 14 PPG in his three years) but too small a sample, and (continuing a theme) better known as a Sonic and Celtic.
SG: Jeff Hornacek: Made 1992 All-Star team in Phoenix, but (this is getting annoying) better in Utah.
PG: Jason Kidd: Great run in Phoenix, but Nash and Johnson were more responsible for better success in Phoenix than Kidd's teams were, and Kidd was better in Jersey (somebody stop me!).
C: Shaquille O'Neal: Just kidding; one half-season does not an all-time team make.
That's the Suns list. Next Monday, the countdown resumes with team #13 (unlucky!), the since-moved Supersonics. Until then, may Clay Bennett not own your team (lol!).
i have to say this is a nice list...but i disagree with Nash starting over KJ. i'm sure we can pull out stats all day long on why we think one should start over the other...i just prefer KJ as the starter. they both had good point guard skills, good shooters/ scorers...good passers too...but both were also liabilities defensively. I thought KJ was alittle more fearless in the middle (remember the dunks over Hakeem, Mark Eaton and Hot Rod Williams?)
also...Marion over Majerle. I'll take Marion's defense in the middle over Thunder Dan's 3 pointers. Marion has career averages of 18 ppg and 10 rpg...not to mention almost 2 steals per. Plus the Matrix had hustle that Mr Dan didn't. and no he's not a Suns lifer, but he spent more years in Phx than Majerle.
I usually don't say anything on your series because many of the players were before my time and I really don't know much about them so to disagree or agree with you is kind of hypocritical but I will disagree with you on Hawkins vs Marion. I looked them up and I'm going with Marion. Whatever natural talent Hawkins had he was a loose cannon and I don't see Marion that way.
Here is a problem, first of all I dont really like Sean Marion, however at the same time he could possibly be the greatest all time Sun if you go by offense and defense, definately a better player individually and talent wise than both Nash and Amare were. He just became a little too selfish to stay a sun. I also agree with first poster that Kevin Johnson was a better point guard than Steve Nash. Nash plays one end of the floor and won two MVP's by being a system run and gun guy and by the voters deciding the award no longer goes to the top players but the best "team guy". KJ was a more productive Sun on more succesful teams for more years, keep in mind with all that talent that this supposed MVP had around him he never made the finals. KJ did, KJ also led his teams past the LAkers with KAreem, Magic and Worthy. No CONTEST!!!
As the old-timers around here know, longtime Suns' fan here. Here's my two cents.
KJ over Nash any day of the week. I think anyone who saw KJ play a lot will agree. Granted, Nash has two MVPs, but that’s like saying Wes Unseld was better than Bob Lanier because Unseld won one and Lanier didn’t. The ’93 Finals were turned in Phoenix’s favor (though Chicage eventually won) when Coach Westphal switched defensive assignments, pulling Majerle off Michael Jordan and put KJ on him in game three. Think Nash would have that kind of effect? At the time, KJ and Magic were the only players in history to avg. 20 pts. and 10 assists three straight years. (KJ just missed four straight when he averaged 19.7 pts. in ’91-’92).
Westphal-Davis is a tough choice, but I’d take The Greyhound. I think he presented more problems for the defense. Like I said, tough call though.
Alvan Adams over Stoudemire as well. Amare is a PF not a center. And Adams had a pretty decent career back when there actually WERE centers in the league rather than just two or three like we have today.
Now, onto Shawn Marion. He gets my nod over both Hawkins and Majerle, and it’s not even close. You said it best about Hawkins in his heyday. Problem is, his heyday came in the ABA, not with the Suns. Majerle was overrated defensively, and didn’t do anything as well as Marion except shoot threes. And he shot a ton of them. As for Marion being a “product of the system,” here are a few things to chew on: (By the way, in a team sport, how many athletes’ productions are NOT results of the system?) (to be cont.)
(cont.)
Over the three year period before Nash joined the Suns, 2001-2004, Marion scored 4741 points in 242 games. In the three seasons since, Marion scored 4761 points in 241 games. Note the consistency in those numbers for a minute, and take note of his games played in all six of those seasons: 81,81,79,81,81,80, with more than one of those games missed being a late season rest. Marion’s average PPG pre-Nash; 19.6. With Nash; 19.8. Now let’s look at Nash’s numbers over the same time period. In the three seasons before joining the Suns, 2001-2004, Nash had 1919 assists in 242 games. After joining the Suns, he accumulated 2571 assists in 227 games over the last three seasons. The bottom line? Nash before; 8.0 assists per game. Nash since; 11.2 assists per game. It goes without saying that there are several other factors involved in these stats, and that they are simply that-stats. But can one make the case that Marion made Nash better? And if you noticed what the system did for the Suns after Marion was traded, is it fair to assume that the system worked because of what HE brought to IT? They simply weren’t the same team after they dealt him. They lost their identity and now are heading for a rebuilding era. Speaking of how little stock I put in some MVP votes, look at The Matrix’s ’05-’06 season, when he was in the top 20 in the following categories: Scoring (17th-21.8 PPG), Field goal pct. (52.4, 18th), rebounding (4th-11.8 RPG), blocks (18th), steals (6th), minutes played (7th), double-doubles (tied for second), and Pts./Rebs./Assts ratio (11th). (to be cont.)
(cont.)
No one else in the league came close to matching that feat that season, not to mention he shot 81% on his free throws during the season and 88% in the playoffs. Yet got all of one fifth-place MVP vote. ONE. Nash won it. See what I mean about not putting too much stock in the MVP award sometimes?
Unfortunately, the "Thunder" in Majerle's game lasted only a few seasons, until he became a camper by the three point line rather than a fearless slasher. But the nickname stuck from his early years.
Downs,
Real good list but I have to agree with the resident Suns fan Riko here. Marion was the Suns for years befor Nash and D'antoni came along. He had much better defense than Majerle as well.
Good job and I know it isn't easy putting together a list like this tha will please everyone.
See, I told everyone that Marion would spark complaints (just kicked a guy next to me and said "You owe me $20! lol). I knew right away this would happen, so I won't argue with any of those comments. Simply put, I can't undo the past, so, through my comment, consider this the new lineup:
PG: (tie) Nash/KJ (I put Nash first because of his MVPs; would you put someone ahead of a former MVP?
SG: same
C: same
SF: Marion
PF: same
Reserves:
PG: no need since I tied
SG: same
C: same
SF: Hawkins (no telling how good he might have been had he played in the league right away)
PF: same
Hey Downs, no hard feelings. I know this series of teams' all-time list can't be easy. Nothing like that ever is. Like I said, just had to throw my two cents in. Though as long-winded as I got, it was more like five cents.
BTW, don't kick me again. That last one might leave a mark.
I like the list but no way are e putting Nash over KJ. I dont care about the MVPs KJ was by far a better player than Nash, he was an assasin on the court. The guy was unguardable. He was an injury away from being one of the 50 greatest players all time. Maybe even top 5 guards all time.
I saw the Hawk play in the ABA, then with the Suns. Marion could only wish he was half the player Hawkins was.
And none of these list have #### Van Arsdale. this is what we face as an ESPN generation. If they don't have a top 10 plays of the day, the players fade into obscurity.
I am David Downs, and I'm a sports nut who loves basketball and football and am open to good discussion about any sports subject. I am a Detroit sports fan, but I not a homer. Expect frequent vents on subjects that irritate me, and also expect the utmost respect for anybody's opinion, even if they disagree with me. Because, after all, that's what these blogs are all about, aren't they?
