I'm sorry I couldn't get this list out sooner, but my house needed the AC installed before we faced a sauna-esque atmosphere. Now that I'm finished, let's continue the My List special with the Detroit Pistons. Let me assure you there will be no bias here! Let's take a look at the lineups.
Starters:
PG: Isiah Thomas: Though "Zeke" may be known today as the former bumbling GM of the Knicks, in his playing day, there weren't many players more intense than Thomas. Taken #2 overall after leading Indiana to an NCAA title in 1981, Thomas helped the Pistons improve by 18 wins his rookie year, as he averaged 17 PPG and 7.8 APG. Thomas would lead the league in assists in 1984-85 with a career high 13.9 per game, and his stats prime came in the years before the "Bad Boys" took hold; between 1984 and 1987, Thomas averaged over 20 PPG and 10 APG each year (his single season scoring high was actually in 1982-83 with 22.9 per). But he was still spectacular in the late 80s and early 90s, as Detroit won two titles (he was Finals MVP in 1990). For his career, he played in 12 All-Star games (1984 & 1986 game MVP), was All-NBA first team three times (1984-86), and had career averages of 19.2 PPG and 9.3 APG.
SG: Joe Dumars: Thomas' backcourt mate for nine years, Dumars was the ice to Thomas' fire; he never seemed nervous in any situation. Drafted #18 overall in 1985 (behind such immortals as Uwe Blab, Keith Lee, Blair Rasmussen, Benoit Benjamin, Jon Koncak, and Bill Wennington!), Dumars split time with John Long as a rookie, but he became a full-time starter in year two, and by his fourth year, Dumars was Finals MVP as the Pistons swept the Lakers (who were short-handed, but they still won) in 1989. Dumars would go on to be selected to six All-Star teams, and his best stats year came in 1992-93, with averages of 23.5 PPG and 4 APG, which was also the year he was All-NBA second team. Unlike Thomas, Dumars would successfully transition into management, as the Pistons have won six division titles, made six straight conference finals, and won the 2004 NBA title.
C: Bob Lanier: Some may clamor for Bill Laimbeer here, but Lanier was one of the NBA's best C's of the 1970s. Drafted #1 overall in 1970, Lanier turned the Pistons into a dangerous team in the Western Conference with his interior play. Lanier averaged a double-double in seven of his nine full Detroit seasons (his best year came in 1970-71, with 25.7 PPG and 14.2 RPG), and would make the All-Star team seven times while a Piston. But management never surrounded Lanier with a good team, and they ended up trading him to Milwaukee for Kent Benson in 1980. For his career, Lanier averaged 20.1 PPG and 10.1 RPG.
SF: Grant Hill: Hill helped Detroit return to respectability after being drafted #3 overall (behine Glenn Robinson and Jason Kidd) in 1994. Hill averaged 19.9 PPG, 6.4 RPG and 5 APG, sharing ROY honors with Kidd in 1995. The following year, he helped Detroit make the playoffs for the first time in four years with a 20.2 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 6.9 APG line. In his six Detroit seasons, Hill averaged 21.5 PPG (high of 25.8 his last year of 1999-2000), 7.9 RPG (high was 1995-96 #) and 6.3 APG (high of 7.3 in 1996-97), was All-NBA 1st team in 1996-97, and made five All-Star teams, before asking for and getting a sign-and-trade with Orlando (where the Pistons got Ben Wallace) in 2000.
PF: Bill Laimbeer: Granted, Laimbeer did play center most of his career, but I felt he should be a starter, so he's at PF. No matter; Laimbeer, acquired in a trade with Cleveland for Phil Hubbard in 1982, brought the nasty factor to the "Bad Boys" with his physical (and some would say dirty) style of play. But "Lamb" was more than just a physical hack; he had a good shooting touch (he hit 202 threes for his career, and tied a then-Finals record of six in game 2 of the 1990 Finals), and averaged a double-double for six straight seasons (1983-88). He led the league in rebounds in 1985-86 9career best 13.1 per game), and missed just three games between 1983 and 1992. He also made four All-Star teams.
Reserves:
PG: (tie) Dave Bing/Chauncey Billups: How could I leave either player off this list? I just couldn't do it, so here we are. Bing was a pure scorer for the team in the 60s and early 70s; he averaged over 20 PPG in seven of his nine Detroit seasons, and led the league in scoring in 1968 with a 27.1 average (the first guard to lead the league in scoring since 1948) and made six All-Star teams while here. Billups, added as a FA from Minnesota in 2002, became "Mr. Big Shot" for his penchant for hitting game-winning shots. He went from journeyman to star in Detroit, and won Finals MVP in 2004 as the Pistons shocked the Lakers. His best Detroit season was 2005-06 with averages of 18.5 PPG and 8.6 APG.
SG: Richard Hamilton: Billups' backcourt mate has not been spectacular, but boy is he steady. Since being acquired from Washington for Jerry Stackhouse in 2002, Hamilton has averaged at least 17 PPG in every season here (his high was 20.1 in 2005-06), and has made three All-Star teams during his tenure. He also started on the 2004 title team.
C: Ben Wallace: "Big Ben" may not be worth too much now, but in Detroit, he was the personification of hustle and great defense. Added as almost a throw-in in the Grant Hill sign-and-trade in 2000, Wallace averaged better than 12 RPG in each of his first five Detroit seasons, and won four Defensive POY awards. Also, Wallace was the inspiration for the Pistons' "Going to work" motif of recent seasons. Wallace was selected to four All-Star games, and started on the 2004 titlists.
SF: (tie) Dennis Rodman/George Yardley: I know I told Hoffman that Rodman would get his kudos on this list. But Yardley was also the Pistons' first big-time scorer in Detroit, so I couldn't ignore him. Rodman, drafted in the second round in 1986, was the Pistons' best individual defender during the "Bad Boys" era, and was also an exceptional rebounder even while coming off the bench (he averaged almost 10 RPG even as a reserve). He won two Defensive POYs (1990, 1992), led the league in boards twice as a Piston (his best RPG year came in Detroit in 1992 with 18.7 RPG), and made two All-Star teams. Yardley, drafted in 1953, won the scoring title in the Pistons' first year in Detroit in 1958 (27.8 average, and was the first player to score 2,000 points in a season), played on both of the Pistons teams that made the Finals in Fort Wayne in 1955-56, and made five All-Star teams while there.
PF: Rasheed Wallace: Though Rasheed never seems to go all-out in any game, there's no denying that he was the spark that helped Detroit win the 2004 title. Acquired during that season in a three-way trade with Atlanta and Boston, Wallace averaged 13.7 PPG and 7 RPG during the stretch run as Detroit rolled into the playoffs, and his all-around play helped Detroit stun the Lakers and win the title. In his Detroit career, he has averaged about 13 PPG and 7 RPG each year, and for his career has made four All-Star teams.
Coaches:
Head Coach: Chuck Daly: Daly really made good in his second chance (though really it was his first) to be an NBA head coach; his only prior head coaching experience was a 9-32 with the Cavs in 1981-82. But while with Detroit, the Pistons won at least 46 games each year, made five straight conference finals, three NBA Finals, and won two championships, as Daly shifted the teams' focus from a finesse, offensive minded approach, to a tough, "Bad Boys" defensive team. Including stints in New Jersey and Orlando, Daly won 564 games as a head man.
Assistants: Charles Eckman, Larry Brown: Consider this; before Daly, only four guys (Paul Birch, Eckman, Richard McGuire, and Scotty Robertson) had coached the team for at least three years, and only one since (recently fired Flip Saunders) has done that. So it was hard to pick assistants. Eckman, who became a coach on a dare (as an NBA referee, he told Pistons owenrship he could coach better than the guy they had), boasted he didn't call any offensive sets, but his style worked... to a point. The Fort Wayne Pistons won two division titles and made two NBA Finals under Eckman, who is the only person to coach (1955-56) and referee (1951) an All-Star game. Brown won 108 games (54 each season) in his twow years here, and coached the Pistons to the NBA Finals in both of those years, with the crowning achievement being the 2004 title.
Honorable Mentions:
PF: Rick Mahorn: Great defensive player, but Laimbeer and Rasheed had more of a hand in the title runs than Mahorn did.
SG: John Long: Here's the dreaded "Alvin Robertson" theory at work; Long's best years were among the Pistons' worst, and it diminishes his accomplishments slightly.
SF: Tashaun Prince: Just isn't that consistent, and the least valuable (in my opinion) starter on the 2004 titlists.
PG: Richard McGuire: Decent stats, but Thomas and Bing/Billups were better.
PG/SG Vinnie Johnson: Great sixth man, but the "Microwave" can't be justified ahead of any of the guards mentioned because he was primarily a backup.
PF/C Bob McAdoo: Better known as a Brave and Laker, and his acquisition cost us the #1 pick in 1980 (the Celtics had that pick, and used it to get Parish and McHale.).
SF: Mark Aguirre: More of a Mavs legend than a Pistons legend, though he did help us win two titles.
SF: Kelly Tripucka: Great scorer, but kinda personified the finesse Pistons that didn't get over the hump.
That's the Pistons. Tomorrow, the #11 seed, the Warriors, are next. Take care until then!
This isnt one of the better lists you have had, maybe its the heat... Rodman never played small forward, and Laimbeer never played Center...Rodman absolutely has has to be the starting PF. I dont think Grant Hill, Rasheed or Ben Wallace cracks the top ten.
I love seeing Grant Hill up there. I think people forget just how good this dude was. This was just around the time I was getting into hoops, and I can still remember the "next Jordan" phrases being thrown around for Grant Hill.
As far as Sheed, we're talking about the reason they were the champs that year. Take Sheed off, take a banner off the wall. You can argue whether he's washed up now, but he's most def a top ten all timer for the Pistons if for no other reason than 2004.
I see I've generated plenty of heat figuratively. So, allow me to clarify; until James Edwards left the team in 1991, Rodman played almost as much SF as PF, and was a part-time starter there when he first began to start games for the Pistons. And yes, "Worm" did plenty as a Piston, but the same can be said when he played for the Spurs and Bulls, as well. So I thought that Laimbeer, who played primarily as a Piston, got slightly more #### points. It's not a putdown, by any stretch, but that's just my view.
And banme, if you looked back at both NBA Finals the Pistons played, Laimbeer is listed as the starting C (yes, they listed Edwards as the PF in 1990; don't ask me why, and I've watched the enitre 1989 Finals; Laimbeer was listed as the C).
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2. Rodman is moved to the bench because of Laimbeer?
3. Rodman is playing SF because of Rasheed?"
Where do I begin.
1. Rodman was not a shooting forward, but a small forward. Yes, that is what the "S" means in front of the "F"
2. Yes because Laimbeer was a better overall player than Rodman.
3. Yes, Rodman is listed as small forward because that is what he was. John Salley or Mahorn were the Power Forwards, Aguirre and Rodman were the Small Forwards.
Did you actually watch the Pistons during these years or did you read something in a book?
Small forward, shooting forward, whatever. It's the same position.
And you have a point, through Rodman's first 5 seasons, he played a lot of shooting forward/small forward. But during his last two seasons in Detroit -- the ones in which he averaged 18.5 rebounds -- he played the majority of his minutes at power forward.
You said, "Yes because Laimbeer was a better overall player than Rodman."
Huh?
Laimbeer had greater range and could hit from the 3-point line, but aside from that, Rodman was better in every other facet of the game.
ESPN ranked the Greatest Power Forwards in 2005, Rodman received 7 votes. Laimbeer didn't receive one.
Rodman was Defensive Player of the Year on a Pistons team that won the NBA championship. And he led the league in rebounding in two straight seasons -- playing the majority of the time at power forward.
But you want to put him at "small" forward? Fine. Then he deserves to start over Grant Hill.
Much as you may like Laimbeer he is not a power forward, and even if you pick him at that spot he still can't make the starting five. Lanier without doubt is Detroit's best center; while Dennis Rodman and Rasheed Wallace are definetly Detroit's two best power forwards. At small forward you cannot choose Grant Hill above Mark Aguirre even though Mark's time in Detroit was at the end of his career. Finally I guess I'm just old but I don't see how anybody could not choose Dave Bing for Detroit's starting shooting Guard. Joe Dumars was great but he definetly was no Dave Bing!
Last edited by hearwegoagain on July 17th at 2:28 PM.
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Downs, may I suggest you take a long look at Bailey Howell at that power forward slot with the Pistons. He was very good with Detroit prior to winning titles with the Celtics.
I am David Downs, and I'm a sports nut who loves basketball and football and am open to good discussion about any sports subject. I am a Detroit sports fan, but I not a homer. Expect frequent vents on subjects that irritate me, and also expect the utmost respect for anybody's opinion, even if they disagree with me. Because, after all, that's what these blogs are all about, aren't they?
