DownsA529's Blog
by: DownsA529
My List: All Time Team, New York Knicks
Jul 04, 2008 | 10:51AM | report this

Before I begin, I'd like to wish everybody (especially the troops) a happy Fourth of July! Cheers to all of you! Now that I've said that, I have a date today, so I will resume the My List special with team #4, the New York Knicks. I'm gonna let you know early that the starting lineup is heavily slanted towards the 1970s teams. But they did win titles, so that's to be expected (isn't it, Isiah?). Without further ado, here's the lineup:

Starters:

PG: Walt Frazier: Let me say, before I write his bio, that my grandmother (who I love dearly) thinks he is ugly! Now that that's out of the way, Frazier was the personification of cool in the early 70s. He also was the spark that made the Knicks go. From 1969-70 to 1974-75, Frazier averaged over 20 PPG, 6 APG and 6 RPG (not bad for a guard) as the Knicks won three conference and two NBA titles. In game 7 of the 1970 Finals, he scored 36 points and had 19 assists, helping the Knicks clinch their first title.

SG: Earl Monroe: I wringed my hands over this pick for awhile, but I decided that Monroe's career stats merited his selection. It is true that Monroe's best years were as a Baltimore Bullet, but he didn't win an NBA title, until being traded to New York during the 1971-72 season. His first year was a rough transition (he didn't even start when the Knicks made the Finals; Dean Meminger did!), but by year two, he bought into the Knicks' system, and was a factor in them regaining the title in 1973. He averaged over 20 PPG twice as a Knick, and made the 1975 and 1977 All-Star teams while he was there.

C: (tie) Willis Reed/Patrick Ewing: How can you choose between the two? Granted, Reed's stats don't overwhelm like Ewing's, but Ewing also didn't win a championship (thanks to John Starks). So, they both tie (and thus, you won't see a backup C on the "Reserves" list). Reed wasn't the most physically gifted player, but his desire and hustle made him play bigger than he was. After taking over the C spot when Walt Bellamy was traded in 1968, Reed enjoyed his finest season in 1969-70, becoming the first player to win all three MVPs (regular season, All-Star, and Finals) in the same year (he would be the last to accomplish this until Michael Jordan in 1996). His legendary game 7 (even though he only scored two baskets) is still among the greatest games in NBA history. Ewing came to New York in 1985, and turned the sorry Knicks into a playoff team by his third year, a division champ in his fourth, and a conference champ by year nine. He made nine All-Star teams, averaged 22 PPG and 10 RPG over his Knicks career, and was the Knicks' all-time leader in points, field goals made, free throws made, rebounds, blocks and steals when he was traded in 2000.

SF: Bill Bradley: The future U.S. Senator was a Rhodes scholar at Princeton before beginning his Knicks career in 1967. Initially used as a guard, Bradley switched to forward and became a steady scorer and defender on the Knicks' two title teams of the 70s. He averaged double figures in eight of his ten seasons, made the All-Star team in 1973 (when he averaged a career-high 16.1 PPG) and made the HOF in 1992.

PF: Dave DeBusschere: DeBusschere was already an established star on the Pistons when he was traded to the Knicks in 1968. He made the Knicks better by allowing Reed to switch to center, and by being a great rebounder and defender for the Knicks' golden era. DeBusschere averaged close to 15 PPG and over 10 RPG each year with the Knicks, making the All-Star team four times while he was there. He was also an All-NBA first team defensive selection in each season he played in New York.

Reserves:

PG: Mark Jackson: ESPN's current analyst (are you kidding me!?!?) was quick to make an impact in the NBA, winning ROY honors in 1988, averaging 13.6 PPG and 10.6 APG. Jackson helped fuel the Knicks to a division title in 1989 and a share of the division in 1992, then departed for the Clippers. He returned for a brief time in 2001, but left again after the Knicks lost in the 1st round to Toronto. His overall career (second all-time in assists) got him the backup spot.

SG: Allan Houston: Although most fans know Houston today as the posterchild for bad contracts, he was a dependable scorer for the Knicks in the early part of this decade. Houston averaged between 18 and 22 PPG for the Knicks in five of seven seasons from 1997-2003 (with a high of 22.5 in 2002-03) and was a key figure when the #8 seeded Knicks reached the 1999 NBA Finals. Knee troubles ultimately stopped his career in its tracks, and despite an attempt to come back, he has since moved into analyst work.

SF: Bernard King: Before I hear the cries for Larry Johnson, hear me out on King; he might have become one of the greatest scorers in league history had he not suffered a horrific knee injury in 1985. After playing on three teams in five years from 1977-82, King joined the Knicks, and led the team to the playoffs, averaging 21.9 PPG. He had an even better year in 1984 (26.3 PPG), including a memorable duel with Isiah Thomas in the deciding fifth game of the 1st round matchup in Detroit. Then, during the 1985 season, with the scoring title assured, King suffered his grizly injury in a game in Kansas City. He missed all but 6 games the next three years, and the Knicks released him. The Bullets then signed him, and he played very well for them over the next four years (the highlight of which was his appearence in the 1991 All-Star game) before leaving the NBA for good after the 1992-93 season.

PF: Charles Oakley: Oakley was the player who epitomized toughness with the Knicks during the early and mid-90s. Acquired in a trade from Chicago for Bill Cartwright in 1988, Oakley helped the Knicks improve from 38 to 52 wins his first year there. Oakley averaged a double-double four times as a Knick, made the 1994 All-Star team, and helped the Knicks reach the 1994 Finals.

Coaches:

Head Coach: Red Holzman: Holzman seemed an unlikely candidate as a coach to the HOF. Before coaching the Knicks, he had a spotty record as the Hawks' coach from 1954-57 (no winning seasons, an 83-120 record), but when he assumed the reins in 1967, the Knicks bought into his team concept, and they became champions. Between 1968-69 and 1973-74, the Knicks won at least 48 games each year, won three conference titles, and won two NBA titles. Holzman finished coaching after the 1981-82 season with 696 wins (the same number is reitred at MSG in his honor).

Assistants: Pat Riley, Jeff Van Gundy: Riles made his return to coaching with the Knicks (after a stint with NBC) in 1991, and changed the team's image from flashy to tough-minded, and the change worked to a point. The Knicks won at least 51 games in each of Riley's four seasons there, the highlight being the run to the 1994 Finals. Van Gundy, before talking about MMA, his teeth and other inane topics on ESPN, kept that image going after replacing Don Nelson late in the 1995-96 season. He had a winning record in each full season coached in New York, and took the Knicks to the 1999 Finals.

Honorable Mentions:

SF/PF: Larry Johnson: Great career, I know, and no doubt he'll replace Bradley and/or King on many lists. Just not mine.

PG: Micheal Ray Richardson: If only he could have stayed clean.

SF: Latrell Sprewell: Another important Knick of recent lore. How can I put a guy who can't live on $8 million on here?

PG: Richard McGuire: A little, O.K., a lot before my time.

PF: Harry Gallatin: See McGuire.

PG: Stephon Marbury: Where's Mark Jackson (you've gotta be kidding me!) when you need him? He's the symbol of the current Knicks' ineptitude.

SG: John Starks: Just look at game 7 of the 1994 Finals. Then you'll see why he's not here.

PF: Anthony Mason: Not quite enough done in New York.

There's the list. Tomorrow, because it's the weekend, I'll do the weakest teams; Toronto and Memphis!

14 Comments | Add a comment   categories: NBA, NBA Tipoff, New York Knicks
 
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underage
Jul 4, 2008
11:00 AM
It's Fourth of July We hope this brings on the cheerful times of Red, White and Blue from us to you!!!

Love always,
underage

SKCUBOG
Jul 4, 2008
12:25 PM
First, happy 4th of July Downs.

Second, OMG, you have made your first major blunder in your rundown of lineups. Seriously now, how can Jerry Lucas not even make honorable mention!!!!!! I know Lucas was winding down during his years with the Knicks but he was absolutely instrumental in their being in two NBA championship games and winning one in 1973. He is listed as one of the top fifty all time NBA players. Career stats of 17 ppg and 15.6 rbpg. 15.6 rebounds per game is close to tops for any power forward ever. Compare that to DeBusschere with 16 ppg and 11 rbpg or Oakley at 9.7 ppg and 9.5 rbpg. Oakley isn't even in the HOF is he? Lucas even backed up Reed during the 72 season and actually played more minutes at center that year than Reed. I can go with DeBusschere on 1st team but Lucas is clearly a vastly superior pf to Charles Oakley. At the very least he should be an honorable mention. Come on Downs, you need to reconsider the Knicks list.

edclinchsaint
Jul 4, 2008
12:41 PM
Not bad.

DownsA529
Jul 4, 2008
12:52 PM
SKCUBOG, I did say that career accomplishments would be considered when the talent pool was weak. And yes, Lucas deserves an Honorable Mention (I just didn't think about it). But when I looked at it; Lucas played just three years in New York, and Oakley played 10 years and was perhaps the second most recognized player (behind Ewing) for most of his tenure. Yes, Lucas gets an HM, but I don't think he would qualify (just to let the cat out of the bag a little early, he is on the Kings' all-time team).

SKCUBOG
Jul 4, 2008
1:28 PM
Hey Downs, thanks for the hm. I get a little emo when the few Buckeyes who actually starred in the NBA get left out. Lets see, Havlicek, Lucas, Havlicek,Lucas,... Thats about it. As I recall two other Buckeyes have NBA championship rings. Jim Clemmons who was a star on my high school basketball team and was a rookie on the Lakers in 71-72 and Larry Siegfried who played with Havlicek on the Celts. I'm having fun with your blog so keep em coming.

ReverendRhythm
Jul 4, 2008
3:10 PM
He was before my time, but I would loved to have seen Bill Bradley light it up at Princeton.

ReverendRhythm
Jul 4, 2008
3:12 PM
On a side note, aside from Patrick Ewing, who splits time with Willis Reed on your list, it's sad that the Knicks haven't had a memorable player since the early to mid 1990s.

SKCUBOG
Jul 4, 2008
3:47 PM
Rev, the Knicks 73 champs were a great shooting team. Bradley,Frazier,Lucas,and Monroe could all hit from what is now 3 point range. These guys played great team ball and got the most out of their talent. Lucas and Bradley may have been two of the smartest players ever. Bradley was a Rhodes Scholar and Lucas graduated with a perfect 4.0 in business from OSU.

PF
Jul 4, 2008
5:03 PM
Allan Houston was as consistent as Ray Allen. Too bad injuries ruined his career.

justanotherfan
Jul 5, 2008
5:09 AM
Downs'
A great franchise that seemed to epitomize what playing with grit and determination was all about. And the players you've mentioned are noteworthy in all of the aspects you've attributed to them.

A belated 4th of July to you and the immediate family.



justan' aka tophatal ...........

slshusker
Jul 5, 2008
9:30 PM
Ewing couldn't carry Reed's jock.
The list is GOOD, other than giving Patrick too much credit.

Reed had how many Championships? Ewing's teams barely made the playoffs or were stomped by Houston. Sorry for the reality check. I still remember the terrible showing against the Houston studs.

banmeplease
Jul 6, 2008
5:10 PM
Do you think next year with a healthy team the Lakers could put out two centers and say to the refs we're gonna have to play six because we cant choose between the two. COME ON man up! By the way its a no brainer Willus Reed in a heartbeat. Championship and legendary playoff performer versus a career playoff choke.

banmeplease
Jul 6, 2008
5:14 PM
What NBA fan would suggest Grandma-ma over Bernard King? thats a no brainer. I would probably have him in my starting five, definately sucks for King that knee injurys were not as readily helped as they are today, he would of had a much better career.

LarryLegend23
Jul 7, 2008
8:06 PM
Ewing gets a ton of #### for not winning a championship with NY. But look at the teams and the quality of players that surrounded him. Most of which were role players. John Starks, Charles Oakley, etc.. were hardly the compliments Ewing needed to succeed. He never had a perennial all star caliber player to take some of the weight off his shoulders. Ewing may not have been the best center in his time, but the man left it all on the court and deserves more respect then he gets.

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ABOUT ME


DownsA529
I am David Downs, and I'm a sports nut who loves basketball and football and am open to good discussion about any sports subject. I am a Detroit sports fan, but I not a homer. Expect frequent vents on subjects that irritate me, and also expect the utmost respect for anybody's opinion, even if they disagree with me. Because, after all, that's what these blogs are all about, aren't they?
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