I can't believe the Mets David Wright won the Gold Glove. He's known to be a hack in the field, and has often made errors that led to Mets losses. Chipper had another slick-fielding year, despite numerous injuries. Here are some comments from the AJC's David O'Brien, who thought the voters must've taken into account Wright's hitting:
"Wright had the fifth-most errors (21) among NL third baseman, and his .954 fielding percentage was fifth-lowest among NL third baseman, far behind the top three of SF’s Pedro Feliz (.973), Chicago’s Aramis Ramirez (.972) and Chipper (.971), who had nine errors in 126 games at third base.
The managers and coaches do the voting for Gold Gloves, and I told Chipper it wouldn’t be the first time their votes were swayed as much by a player’s hitting totals as his defense. Wright hit .325 with 30 homers and 107 RBIs in 160 games.
“When I find out [Wright won] I was speechless, for quite some time,” Chipper said. “Certainly the guys with the least amount of errors and best fielding percentage quite obviously didn’t win it.”
O'Brien continued: "This afternoon I was going over stats and started comparing. And it made me realize, again, just how potent Chipper’s bat has been whenever he’s been in the lineup the past two seasons.
Consider this: Wright had what was widely hailed as a terrific offensive season, batting .325 with 40 doubles, 1 triple, 30 homers, 113 runs, 107 RBIs, a .416 OBP and a .546 slugging percentage (.962 OPS).
Now consider this: Chipper played 24 fewer games than Wright, and Hoss hit .337 with 42 doubles, 4 triples, 29 homers, 108 runs, 102 RBIs, a .425 OBP and a .604 slugging percentage (1.029 OPS).
Wright killed him in steals (29 to 5), but otherwise Chipper’s numbers are all nearly equal or better than Wright’s, in 24 fewer games."
At least Jeff Francoeur won one. Andruw & Greg Maddux did too...perhaps the voters felt that was enough "Braves."
Wright is a great player. He and Reyes will be thorns in the Braves side for years to come. But to give him the Gold Glove cheapens the award. Chipper was deserving, as were a couple of others.
Since this is more about how Wright shouldn't have won than how Chipper should have, I changed the title. I never could hit, so I've always appreciated good fielding. How a guy hits should have no bearing on the award, though I know it does.
Murphy... here are a few things maybe you haven't thought about.
Chipper Jones has never been recognized for his defense simply because he built a reputation early on as being a poor fielder. While I believe he's certainly not the worst, he is only average at best. And while I don't think Wright is a great fielder -- he's slightly above average, at best -- he's without a doubt better (Chipper has no range and throws many balls in the dirt -- offense wasn't the only reason why they got Teixeira). Wright certainly doesn't have that negative reputation Chipper does.
When you factor in that Wright played in 30 more games than his competitors, and had over 120+ more chances, and exerted a helluva lot of energy offensively with the steals attempts, etc., Wright's selection is FAR from being a travesty.
I'm sure the voting was VERY close. Feliz is too poor of a hitter to be considered (if you can't hit, you better be SPECTACULAR defensively... last year Jeter won it over Alex Gonzalez because he HIT AND PLAYED SOLID D, while Gonzalez simply had to worry about being a good defender).
Many different factors involved. Ultimately, it was the games played and total chances that gave Wright the edge.
Last edited by TrainOntheBall on November 11th at 9:31 PM.
Train, I disagree. While Chipper hasn't been compared to Ozzie Smith, he's been solid his entire career. He's actually improved since his return from LF. He only agreed to move to LF to make way for Vinnie Castilla...one of the best 3B gloves in baseball. Chipper's specialty is charging and barehanding balls in front of him...often overlooked on the WebJems in favor of plays made in NY, Boston, or Philly, for some reason.
Many speak of defensive laspes by Wright, particularly in the clutch. Should ARod sign with the Mets, it's Mr. Wright who'll be playing another position (1B?) Stolen bases should have nothing to do with Gold Gloves! Hopefully we can agree on that!
i guess that the Gold Glove award was started in 1957, before computers were common enough to be used for stats. so, now that we live in a more advanced society, why are we letting people vote on an award which has fairly objective criteria? it's kind of like allowing players and coaches to vote on the AL and NL batting championships.
Murph... I mentioned the steals because the guy who exerts more energy offensively and is a good fielder, will almost always win it over the guy who does zero offensively and is a great fielder. Maybe it has less to do with energy exerted, and more to do with the fact hitting is what draws attention to you. People know Jeter because he hits. Alex Gonzalez doesn't hit. Why else would Jeter beat out Gonzalez for the Gold Glove last year?
And in this case, Wright is clearly an MVP candidate while Chipper, Aramis Ramirez and Pedro Feliz are not. Why are Chipper and Ramirez not in the MVP race? For the same reason Ryan Howard isn't going to run away with it for a second year in a row. Injuries. These guys missed one-fifth of the season.
Wright played in 33 more games than Chipper and Aramis. That's all there is to it. And nobody knows who Pedro Feliz is because he can't hit.
These are the reasons why Wright won it. Now, had Chipper played in 20 more games, maybe he would have won it.
I live five minutes from Shea Stadium and watch a lot of games. Wright is a very, very, very good player. He's not great yet, but he keeps improving. He's very aggressive in the field. He makes a lot of highlight-reel defensive plays. Is he the best fielder at the position? No, but who the heck is? Probably Rolen. And when Rolen only plays two-thirds of the season, he doesn't get considered for the award.
PS - While I'm a Mets fan, I'm a baseball fan first and foremost. I don't dislike any team, including our rival Braves.
Chipper Jones, as I tell everybody this, is one of the best hitters I've ever seen in my life. Seriously, in terms of talent, he's one of the best ten hitters of the past 20 years. I'd want him on my team any day.
But the injuries... damn. There's no doubt in my mind he's an HGH and/or steroids guy. I don't mean that to discredit him in any way... I personally don't care... I think 85% of the players took one or the other at some point. But I think in his case it really worked against him.
Wright's range factor per game and per nine are better than Chipper Jones. Chipper's range per nine isn't even league average. Fewer games, fewer chances, thus fielding percentage is volatile. In Chipper's case, it benefitted him. But I'd say the right man won if I'm picking between the two.
As an addendum to my earlier comment, Ryan Zzimmerman of Washington dwarfs both in range and is slightly better with FP than league average. That's why I said "between the two."
I give up. You guys make some ok points. But hey! Wright made 21 errors! That's one every 7.6 games. Zimmerman made 23...one every 7 games. No one else played as much. Ramirez only had 10 errors in 126 games. Chipper had 9 in 126...an error every 14 games.
The Mets had a losing record in games Wright made an error. Sure he made spectacular plays, but the fact he plays in the Big Apple means he makes WebJems more often.
Range factors, I don't know. But fielding percentages and errors per game don't lie. Everyone's not Cal Ripkin. We'll see how Wright and Zim hold up when they're 35!
I don't know who should win the Gold Glove. I just think fielding awards should be based on fielding...not hitting, popularity, or anything else.
Last edited by DMurphy on November 12th at 8:39 PM.
Back in the late 90's it did look like Chipper was juiced. He was a lot bigger than he'd been in earlier years. The last few years he's looked smaller. He's been hurt, but he's played through most of the hurts - and compiled amazing offensive stats...particulary Batting Average and OBS (among the top 2 or 3 in baseball).
With Smoltz, he's the unquestioned team leader. As a switch-hitter he ranks only behind Mantle and Murray, and ranks among the greats in many categories, like consectutive years with 100 RBIs. Many experts say he'll be a first-ballot HOF-er after another year or two.
Few major leaguers are perfect, but I'll keep Chipper. As I've said, us Braves fans certainly respect Wright, he's a great kid. For baseball's sake, hopefully he'll keep doing what he's been doing for many many years.
For the Braves' sake...don't the Yankees need a third-baseman?
Last edited by DMurphy on November 12th at 8:40 PM.
We could debate the merits of the error as a valid statistic. The same ground ball could be hit 1000 times, but yield four different outcomes.
1)It is fielded, throw to first for the out.
2)It is not fielded, and scored a hit
3)It is fieldable, but the 3b has to make a tough backhanded play, scored an error
4)Same as 3, but a different scorer says it's a hit.
Unless the voters passed judgement on each fielder's error, it's probably best that errors weren't used. Frankly, I'm surprised the voters don't just look in the error column. Many hold some antiquated notions.
"I just think fielding awards should be based on fielding...not hitting, popularity, or anything else."
Good point. I think we all agree with that. Hell, i####uy can't hit but is amazing at defense (see Rey Ordonez), let him win his damn defensive awards. Who cares if he can't hit, or if he's ugly, or if he's 26 years old when he's really 36 years old, etc.
If the world were perfect, I'd take Chipper over every third baseman in the history of the game, with the exception of maybe Mike Schmidt.
Imagine if Chipper were a DH though? I could see him batting clean-up for the Tigers and putting up .350 40 140. Even now!
No relation to Dale! Lifetime Georgia boy...enjoys visiting the rest of the USA. The CPA is my buddy with a finger on the pulse of MLB. I'm a GT grad who also appreciates UGA. Love the Braves & MLB, tolerate the Falcons, Hawks, & Thrashers. A worker bee enjoying Little League & ballet - my excuse for not having hours to write & research. More ramblings can be found at www.sacrifice fly.blogspot. com
