Baseball season is well underway and we've got a few things to think about. Anyone who thinks that the Tampa Rays or Florida Marlins will be in it to win it down the stretch raise your hands? That's what I thought.
That said, there are some teams that could use some help and others that have help to give. No one is out of it, and no one is making the playoff push, so these have to be good, old fashioned trades rather than the salary dumps we've become used to. Anyway, without any further ado - here we go:
1. New York Yankees get Ted Lilly. Chicago Cubs get Hideki Matsui or Bobby Abreu. Why New York does the deal: Kei Igawa is awful, I mean unwatchably awful. Ted Lilly is mediocre at his best but even mediocre is better than awful. Matsui has been one of the Yankees only reliable hitters but the bottom line is that he's a DH on a team with too many DHs. Odds are that list of DHs will grow by one since it's likely that Posada will be back hitting before he's ready to throw, meaning the team will utilize him as their full time DH. That would, in turn, relegate Matsui to a bench role. Matsui has a full no trade clause so the Yankees may use Abreu here instead of Matsui.
Why Chicago does the deal: The Cubs are a good team but they are devoid of left handed hitting. Matsui (or Abreu) would turn that around for them. Financially it is about a wash for both teams, though Lilly is under contract until after the 2010 season whereas Abreu is a free agent after this year and Matsui's contract is up after 2009.
2. Cleveland Indians get Brian Wilson, Ray Durham and Matt Cain, San Francisco gets Ben Francisco, Adam Miller, Asdrubal Cabrera, and Trevor Crowe. Why Cleveland does it: Right now they're not hitting, but you have to assume that they will. What's more concerning is that Joe Borowski is an awful closer and Betencourt has been terrible filling in for him. Wilson is a young, legitimate closer and Cain would be a huge upgrade over Paul Byrd in their rotation.
Why the Giants do it: Cain is probably the only guy in this deal that it would hurt for the Giants to give up. That said, the deal would accelerate the rebuilding process in San Fran. The team is fairly devoid of top level young talent and in one move they could get four young, high cieling players, guys who could start for them right now.
3. Boston Red Sox get Omar Vizquel, San Francisco gets Craig Hansen Why Boston does it: Julio Lugo was a mistake, an epic mistake in the Edgar Renteria mold. He can't field and he's not hitting enough to make up for the fact that he can't field. Vizquel is on the downside of his career but he can still pick it. He would fit in well in the clubhouse over there.
Why San Francisco does the deal: Same reasoning as above. San Francisco is not contending and they lack high level talent coming up through the system. Hansen can replace Wilson (traded to the Indians in my scenario).
Any other trades you would like to suggest, I'm open to hearing.
No way Boston does this deal. Even with Lugo Boston won a World Series last year, and Lugo still gets on base enough to make his speed a valuable asset.
Vizquel meanwhile is over the hill...can't really hit, no speed and defense is just as suspect as Lugo...so why trade?
Hansen? No Hansen is still a blue chip prospect. He may need more time and be a late bloomer. Boston has enough arms to let Hansen develope. It would be idiotic for the Sox to give up on a guy who's only 24...and has only upward potential.
And seriously Chip would you trade a player who's only 24 and can only go up.... for a player who's 41 and on a downswing. Maybe the Yankees make this deal...not the Sox.
Last edited by socratesofswat1 on May 12th at 1:15 PM.
Your opening statement about the Marlins and Rays is off base... Just because they don't have the most outrageous payroll in baseball, you discount them. Both teams are talented. The Rays not only have good hitters as the Marlins do, but they also have put together a good pitching staff.
Concerning the Yankee - Cub trade, you said it yourself, Matsui is a designated hitter now. The NL doesn't have that role. The Cubs play in the NL. You're going to have to do better than that...
You're right, the Yanks need pitching. They've got some expensive players they probably are ready to part with, but no one else can really afford them. I can't think of any team that is going to assume those contracts, let alone give up their players for the privilege. Now if the Yanks want to still pay the lion's share of the contracts for the players they trade, maybe...
The Yanks would be better served to bring up their young players from the minors and invigorate their old, old team..
The Marlins do not have the pitching to stand up over the course of the season against the Mets, Phillies, and Braves. I mean there's a difference between being a spunky young team and having Mark Hendrickson as your number two pitcher.
As for the Rays - Kazmir and James Sheilds are both good pitchers, there's no doubt about it, and they have a nice pen and some good young hitters, but they don't have much depth and young players have a tendancy to wear down over the season.
Yankees are not going to punt the season. I think they will work young players into the mix over the course of the season, but if there's a deal to be made where they can get a patchwork pitcher - a Bronson Arroyo, Ted Lilly type - for something lower down in the system they'll make a move.
As for Matsui, Wrigley is small enough that Matsui's lack of defense wouldn't be terribly exploited.
i don't agree with your 3rd one. to trade a young arm in hansen for a one year guy. the sox have some pitching issues of their own. they just wasted julian who was wanted at one time by two other teams.clay's getting wacked his last two outings? jon lester is holding his own but.i agree that lugo over stayed his welcome.11 errors so far and thats about equal to what the rest of the team has.alex cora is back and tearing it up and jed lowrie isn't doing so bad.and between the two of them they play 2nd,3rd and short very well.lugo isn't playing short very well at all. i'll say it again do a frank thomas thing pay him [lugo] to play elsewhere.make tek bat righthanded only, so he gets the ball out of the infield.don't waste anymore young kids on old timers that are not going be around next season.age catches up with you after awhile just ask the yanks.and also them days [trading youngsters for men with walkers] are almost gone for good.seems to me you wrote this with the giants best interest in mind very gallant but they are beyond being saved.
Trade i'd like to see is Lugo/Crisp and a blue chip pitching prospect for Hanley Ramirez...BUTTA !
and since we're going into fantasy trades, i'd like to get roy halliday or scott kazmir in boston, as well.
Lets not stop there...boston needs joe mauer or that young kid in Texas, saltalamachia.
I just finished Watching the Twins win 3 of 4 from the Boston Red Sox. I know the Twins won't be there when it's all said and done but being from Minneapolis it was fun to watch. But I have to say, I am so very impressed with the Red Sox, they are one classy organization. Even the so called stand offish Manny Ramirez displayed nothing but class all weekend. Seeing the Twins, more than likely won't be around at the end, Boston has got a new fan. Boy could the two New York teams learn from these two Organizations. It was a great weekend of classy baseball, I can hardly wait till I'm sitting outside and watching it.
The Indians would be giving up 4 top prospects for a bunch of junk. Are you kidding me? Durham couldn't even make our team plus he makes 7.5 mil. Wilson wouldn't be bad but not for what you are asking. Borwoski led the AL in saves last year, give him a shot first....Cain wouldn't bring much more than Byrd does. Plus I'd rather have Laffey and Miller over Cain.
Franciso, Cabrera, Miller and Crowe will all be staring for the Tribe in a few years. The 3 Giants would not do much of anything for us.
The Cubs have no need to trade for no offense, and even if they were to acquire another good lefty bat, the deal would involve their prospects and perhaps Jason Marquis, not Ted Lilly. As is, their rotation has some holes and getting rid of their second most established starter is not an option. If the cubs do acquire a lefty, expect it to be Brian Roberts, but the deal will be on hold until the Orioles go back to being the Orioles. One of the players they wanted, Ronny Cedeno, has been brilliant thus far and will make the deal a tough one to turn down for Andy MacPhail.
All (or most) middle relievers should
try another profession icluding Timlin,Delcarman,Hansen,Lopez, etc. of the R.Sox. Being a Sox fan, I am compelled to tune off the radio (or T.V.) when the Boston bull-pen is called upon to hold or protect a lead. Note: except Okijima or Popelbon
Being a Giants fan, I was interested in your post, but sorry to say, Cain is untouchable. During the offseason Toronto wanted to trade Rios for him, straight up, SF turned them down. Cain and Lincecum aren't going anywhere. That doesn't mean they don't have pitching to trade, Jonathan Sanchez has great K rates, Lowry and Correia, both injured, but have proven to be adequate 3-4 starters in the rotation. Put them on a team where they get some run support and they can win double digits. Just not Matt Cain, he is ours.
I think Matsui has a no trade clause (not sure) and they would be stupid to dump Abreu when the Yanks are not even scoring the amount of runs they are used to. I know pitching wins and blah blah but if they wanted Lilly, they could've bought him last year before he signed with the Cubs and only had to give up cash.
I agree with the post stating who would want Ray Durham. Normally trades are done to get younger unless the veteran is proven and its not like he is the Durham of old, who was not even that great.
Vizquel just got back from injury so which GM in their right mind would do that? I guess the one that doesn't like their job.
Lots of great posts and I appreciate them all. I'm going to respond to a few of them:
1. The Cubs will likely pick up Edmonds as soon as he clears waivers. Personally I think Edmonds is pretty well cooked, but if Lou spots him well then he could maybe give them something.
2. To the person who posted that Cain is untouchable. I would agree with the sentiment but San Fran is SO bad and has SO little upper level talent that no one should be untouchable in that organization.
3. The Indians would not be taking Ray Durham because they want him. They would be taking him because to get a front line starter like Matt Cain you have to make concessions - taking back an overpaid, over-the-hill player like Durham is a concession. Also if they moved Asdrubal Cabrera in the deal then they would need a body to play there - between him, Jamey Carrol and Josh Barfield they could find A second baseman.
Lilly for Abreu or Matsui might make sense, but you underestimate Lilly, perhaps because - if you're a Yankees fan - you view him through that "lens"...he has matured into (at his best) a quality starter for the Cubs...last season, he gave up 181 hits in 207 innings pitched, walked 55 and struck out 174 (a 1.14 WHIP), just 7 fewer Ks than hits allowed...few starters have as many or more Ks than hits allowed...
I am a Yankee fan - and I think judging Lilly on last year is using too small a sample size. He's been a .500 pitcher in his career with a +4 ERA in the American League East. Last year's improvement has less (in my opinion) to do with Lilly maturing as a player and more to do with moving to the NL with its shorter lineups.
I agree that the marlins dont have the pitching to stick around until august, and being in a division with the phillies, mets, and braves isn't gonna help. But ur wrong about the Rays, They have two Ace's in Kaz, and Shields and then they have 4 quality starters behind them (I'm including Hammel), The bullpen finally has guys who can actually hold a lead. As for our lineup we have a good mix of young talented hitters(Upton, Longoria, Navi) and vetrans(Floyd, Pena, Crawford). This team will be around at the end of August!
What about trades in St. Louis. The cards are sharing first place with the Cubbies and have plenty to deal.
How about Chris Duncan and Anthony Reyes to the Rangers for Michael Young?
What is devoid is the logic in the Giants trading away one of their top starters and the closer they have been looking for since Rob Nen retired. After the debacle known as Armando Benitez and already having traded two other closers in Joe Nathan and Jeremy Accardo for literally nothing everyone thinks they can swindle Brian Sabean into trading for another young closer to help push them over the top. If the Indians want Ray Durham they can have him for nothing. As bad as everyone was expecting the Giants to be they are currently in third place ahead of the Padres and Rockies and contrary to popular belief have shown they have some young talent in their own farm system. The last thing they need to do is come up with another one sided knee jerk trade that would slow down the rebuild process since they will again be on the hunt for a closer and a top starter.
I think the first trade is reasonable, but the other two are longer shots. I don't see the Giants giving up their 1-2 punch by trading Cain. As for the Red Sox, Lugo tests patience, but Jed Lowrie is going to replace him soon enough so I don't think Theo will throw away talent like Hansen for a rent-a-shortstop like Vizquel. Besides, where Lugo is lacking at the plate, Vizquel is downright pathetic. Lugo is still a passable hitter at the bottom of the order.
When I read your first proposal, I almost wanted to crack up. I have no idea why you would want your Yankees to give up Matsui or Abreu for a mediocre pitcher in Ted Lilly. Remember him in the AL? The guy's had one good season in the NL, he's been terrible this year, just terrible. He had a very good start vs. the D'backs, but one start isn't going to take his ERA from 9 to 1.50. I know the Yankees have a lot of guys in that OF, but the Yankees are indeed getting old. What are you going to do if Matsui goes down? Who's going to replace him? I think you'd want a lot more than Ted Lilly for a guy like Matsui or Abreu anyhow, no matter how old they are. In addition, the Cubs need a CF, not a corner OF. I doubt Matsui or Abreu can play center very well.
Now onto your second trade, this deal can make sense. However, why do the Indians need pitching again? And just how good is Asdrubal Cabrera to make the Giants give up the second best starter on their team? This deal looks just way too good on the Indians part. Which, I am obviously not in favor of.
I really don't know why Boston wants a 40 year old SS. I'd rather have Lugo and Cora fill that hole than a SS that passed his prime 7 years ago.
Your deals do seem to make a bit more sense after I read over them more, but I think they're not very fair. You might be taking the Giants' rebuilding or the Yankees' pitching needs a bit too seriously.
"The Indians would be giving up 4 top prospects for a bunch of junk. Are you kidding me? Durham couldn't even make our team plus he makes 7.5 mil. Wilson wouldn't be bad but not for what you are asking. Borwoski led the AL in saves last year, give him a shot first....Cain wouldn't bring much more than Byrd does. Plus I'd rather have Laffey and Miller over Cain.
Franciso, Cabrera, Miller and Crowe will all be staring for the Tribe in a few years. The 3 Giants would not do much of anything for us."
Do you have any idea who Matt Cain is? If the Giants can score him 4 runs a game last year, he probably would of won 15-18 games with a mid-3 ERA and close to 200 Ks. Anybody in their right mind would take him over Paul Byrd, Aaron Lafey, and Adam Miller.
Borowski is terrible, if he didn't play for such a good offensive team, he would of blown 20 saves last year. Basically, he gives up a run every save other save opportunity he gets, that is, if those saves are 3 out saves. Borowski had one good year with the Cubs in '03 where he had respectable numbers outside of the saves category, now however, he's up there in the "worst closer in the AL" category along with Todd Jones. The Indians need closer help, did you watch the game last night? Betancourt gave up 3 runs to the Blue Jays! The freaking Blue Jays, they hadn't scored in their last 31 innings. I would do it in a heartbeat if I were Mark Shapiro. But even Brian Sabean won't be stupid enough to let that deal go through.
I HEARD ABOUT A TRADE WITH THE DODGERS AND THE TIGERS
AND THE DODGERS DERECK LOWE, JOHATHAN BROXTON,JEFF KENT, JAUN PIERRE, FOR JUSTIN VERLANDER,JEREMY BONDERMAN, MAGGLIO ORDONEZ AND PLACGO POLANCO.WHATS UP WITH THIS WHAT DO YOU THINK.
WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU SMOKING! the only team that benefits from any of these deals is the giants and ur crazy if you think the tribe would even consider that deal. That's our top pitching prospect, the only guy whose been hitting this year, if you exclude Vic, another one of our top outfield prospects and the next Omar Vizquel. We have enough starters, Adam Miller could even end up as our closer, cabrera will return to form and francisco is just an amazing hitter. Also, why the heck would we want Ray Durham or Brian Wilson. Durham's at the end of the line and would give us the same production that we get from Cabrera, and I've never even heard of Wilson. Borowski will be good enough as our closer and bentencourt has four saves in five appaerences, the only blown one was on a throwing error. That deal is just crazy
First off I do not think the Cubs will get rid of Lilly he has been pitching lights out in his last 4 starts. Signing Edmunds is a possibility. Cleveland has been playing great ball lately,starters have been throwing a lot of zeros.
People who think Joe Borowski is a reliable closer are fooling themselves. I'm pretty sure that while biceps tendonitis was the official reason he went on the DL the actual injury was whiplash from jerking around to see where most of his pitches landed.
Yankeesfan2:
Can't see the Yankees investing in Harden who can't stay healthy.
Lou Pinella would pull his hair out watching Kyle Farnsworth
Trade Matt Cain and Brian Wilson?!? For that garbage! Come on, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The only way I'd make that trade is if the Indians agreed to take Roberts and Winn of their hands too.
Harden is still only 3 years older than Kennedy and has a modest contract. If the Yankees can't get any stability...you may well see them go after Harden or Blanton.
Cubs need a CF and Damon could still go get it in that little ballpark. If Lou can live with Wood...he can deal with Farnsy whose proven he can close in the NL. Cubs need a closer.
Not enough for Roy? He has a huge contract (13 mil)and a 5.05 era. All the innings may be catching up with him. Veras throws 95-97 and can set-up or close. Maybe Austin Jackson instead of Damon. Either way...this one is wishful thinking on my part. That country boy won't be coming to the Big Apple. :)
For what it's worth, Gammons was on Baseball Tonight tonight (Tuesday) saying that because of how badly Julio Lugo is playing in the field the Red Sox are looking at other options and the one that they are most focused on is Omar Vizquel.
I HATE the Red #### obviously...but why would they look at a 41 year old SS when they have this Lowrie kid...who in typical BS Red #### fashion, consider him to be the next coming of JC?!
if the yanks want someone to throw strikes and give them innings bring back david wells he'll cost you zero and if he don't pan out he can retire as a yankee steincooler or brenner owes him that much
By the way...there is no way on earth Abreu is going anywhere. He's one of the only steady bats for one...two, they have nobody else to play RF. Damon or Matsushi possibly...they play each others position plus there is Gardner in AAA who is a younger Damon.
It's me again and I just watch the yanks loose again. If we as Yankee fans thought things would change when the new Joe took over. Well we was all fooled because they are doing the same thing they did with last Joe and that is trying to win the game with the long ball which hasn't work for a long time. Here I am thinking ok new era with Joe, but it is the same old @#$^%&*. Excuse my french, but it is making me mad to see the likes of the RAYS, O'S, BLUE JAYS, AND THE SUCKS wining games with both long ball and small ball. You think that Joe who just finish wining manager of the year with a Marlins team that he bring some of that style here, but know it is the same old yanks again. That tells many things and the main one is the Yankees are too old and if they keep this up there would be no playoffs and we as YANKEE fans would suffer another losing season.
Here is a thought. I know the Yanks are not know for playing small ball and producing runs like a NL team, but come on Joe surprise us and the opposing team once in awhile and steal a base or two or a double steal. Please anything than this boring baseball you are playing. As a faithfull fan I am very disapointed with this team. We have no bench and those guys on the bench don't even show any emotions. Only guy who is a true yank on that bench is Duncan. He needs more playing time. Stop waiting for these guys to start hitting home runs and start getting them to produce runs by bunting and stealing bases. Too much waiting and time is running out. This so hard to watch how this yankee team i
I think tonight was the perfect answer as to whether the Giants would ever think of making that ridiculous trade with the Indians: Cain - 8 innings & Wilson with his league leading 12th save. End of story
These trades make no sense for teams like the Yankees or Red Sox. Matsui and Abreu are both old but the two best hitters in the Yankee lineup at the moment besides Jeter. Lilly is nobody's answer.
Why would the Red Sox go after Vizquel who cant hit a lick when they could possibly get a guy like Michael Young who would fit great in Boston? The Rangers have Arais and another young SS stud in the minors whos name eludes me.
I think Chip that you must be a Giants Fan. There is no way that the Indians part with any of those guys. They will be fine at closer and starting pitching is awesome. Francisco is the up and coming as is Cabrera. Unassisted Triple Play in addition to incredible defense as displayed on espn last night. No sir Chip, the Indians need an outfielder who can hit for power in the bottom of the lineup. I'd give up a prospect or two for a decent one. The Indians would have the best record in the AL if it wasn't for their lack of hitting. Travis Hafner may have lost his edge. We need a power hitter and we need one now!!!!
Cormac - can't see the Reds taking on Lugo's salary.
As for why the Yankees would consider trading Matsui or Abreu - I mention it above, odds are that Posada will be back as the DH before he's ready to catch. That means that either Matsui, Damon, or Abreu become very expensive pinch hitters. Yes the Yankee offense is horrible right now, but with the returns of Posada and Alex they will have offense to spare. Right now, the only reason that the Yankees are in striking distance is because Mussina has been pitching well - that is not a trend I expect to continue.
Yankeesfan wrote, "...why would they (red sox) look at a 41 year old SS when they have this Lowrie kid...who in typical BS Red #### fashion, consider him to be the next coming of JC?!"
FYI, the sox thought papelbon was the ####...he has become a shut-down closer. The sox thought pedroia was the ####...he is the reigning rookie of the year. The sox thought ellsbury was the ####...he's putting up great #s so far (23/23 steals, good average and fielding in a little over 2 months of MLB service). I don't see lowrie as being an all-star, but then again, you never know.
The sox have had high expectations for alot of their youth, and so far those are coming to fruition...so sit back and enjoy the ride, yankee fan, while your youngsters all hit the DL or AAA !
(dummies should have traded kennedy and hughes for johan santana...how stupid can you be?).
Within a month or so, Yanks will figure out this is a rebuilding year, but they need to hold on to Matsui and maybe Abreau. Give Duncan at bats at First and go to work on the pitching. They have to know they blew it big time on Santana who would have been their ace for the next five years, but either Blanton or Harden will be a good fit, and its time to put Joba in the rotation he is a posible future superstar. Kennedy and Hughes = trade bait, they will not help the team in the next few years and may never be more than mediocre...
Typical #### fan....too blind to see that with all of your self touting....you're now in second place and only four games ahead of a Yankees team that is missing Arod & Posada, 2/5's of it's pitching staff...and enduring Cano and Giambi hitting under the Mendoza line. LOL!! Tell ya what...put Manny, Varitek, Lester & Buckholtz on the DL...and blindfold Pedrioa and Youk and see how many games back YOU are.
I agree they should have traded for Santana...but I think you're being a little hard on Hughes and Kennedy. They are only 21 & 23 prospectively and never have even seen a full season in the minors. Hughes needs to get healthy and Kennedy needs a little more seasoning before we can truly make a judgement. Plenty of young pitchers come up, have success and then get smacked around before having success again. Look at the back of nearly every great pitchers baseball card and you'll see.
Typical yank-me fan, deflecting from the truth and then making up excuses. Look, i'm not attacking you, but come on, neither kennedy/hughes nor lester/bucholtz are locks to ever reach anywhere near the upside of Johan Santana...now, if you wanted to get me on my comment, you should have said that the sox should have traded for Santana, as well...i'd have to agree with you there.
As far as the upsides to kennedy/hughes/joba...they all seem to have tremendous potential and i'd love to add them to the sox's roster, no argument there.
Your argument about how many people are hurt and 'what if's' about the sox having injuries, holds no water. Each team goes through it every year. Last year at this time, the yanks seemed to be through...look what happened. Injuries took their toll on Boston. Lets just agree that both teams have some aging players; the difference is that Boston has a good group of youngins who are pushing their way into the lineup.
And, when one of the best 3rd basemen in the MLB went down with an injury, they replaced him with Kevin Youkilus...not too bad if you ask me.
Injuries are going to happen, its what tools you have handy to react to those injuries determines how many games back you'll be.
Chip you make some good proposals, however right now Cain is untouchable. While the Giants are bad, they arent desperate just yet. And the tribe does seem to be doing ok with their pitching. I wouldnt doubt an Omar to Boston deal though, I think these Red sox fans are a little dillusional about how bad Lugo realy is.
I felt that the Red Sox never should have traded Cabrerra for Renterea,that was the shortstop for them. Also the Bosox aging pitching staff needs reworked for some good young arms.They are a solid team but we all know how pitching is the key in a long season like baseball.There is so much talent around the sox can get a good starter who can win 15-20 games without giving up the young talent they have manufactured. Omar Visquel was an all star,now he's on his way down don't buy him!!!!
Wow, palozzi.
Did you completely ignore the sox's pitchers' current ages before you made that 'aging pitchers' comment?
I haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure that beckett and Dice k are 27 yrs old...lester i believe is 26...bucholz just got weened. I agree that wakefield is up there, but he's a knuckler and could pitch another 10 years - effectively.
Shilling is prolly through, no argument. but there are many youngster like pauley and masterson who are just waiting for their chance to come up.
and the bullpen will need some work, i agree. but, other than timlin, who else is even close to 30 years old?
Hello readers:
Born in New York in 1978 I was raised as a fan of the Yankees, NY Rangers, NY Giants and Knicks. I've stuck with them through the lean years and celebrated in the glory years. My sports knowledge is not just limited to the above teams however. Friends used to comment that if I were willing to spend half as much time on sports and use that time for work it would not have taken my five years to get through college and I would be a billionare by now.
I've taken to writing a blog because it gives me the chance to share wild and outside the box ideas with others - rather than just friends who are tired of hearing my propsals.
Hope you enjoy.
