Match Report Spain 1-0 Germany It is very rare for a country to make it through a complete tournament final (6 games in the European championships or 7 at the World Cup) playing almost flawless and entertaining football and in the end still lift the trophy. This Spain has done just that and there can be little doubt that they were the best team at Euro 2008.
Spain may have sputtered sporadically in some of the six games but at no time did the overall quality of their play slip below the opposition’s for 90 minutes or anything close to it.
Germany settled into the final match more quickly and for the first 10 minutes looked to be the most dangerous side. An early slip from Ramos allowed Klose half a chance but his control let him down.
Germany targeted the right side of the Spanish defense trying to split right back Ramos and center back Puyol with passes played into the space between them. A similar tactic would eventually bear fruit although it would be Spain that would prosper rather than Germany.
After some early nerves Spain settled in to their familiar pattern of short quick passes and constant movement in midfield. Halfway through the first 45 minutes a Fabregas to Ramos move finished with Fernando Torres leaping high above the German defense only to see his downward header rebound off the base of the post. With no one to take advantage of the rebound the danger was cleared.
As the first half progressed it became obvious that Germany was carrying a number of players who were just not up to the occasion and could not match Spain’s play. Just after the half hour mark Spain scored what would ultimately be the only goal of the game.
A Xavi Hernandez pass split Metzelder and Lahm. Lahm was guilty of worrying too much about Fernando Torres and not making a great enough effort to get to the ball first. Torres brushed the full back aside and clipped the ball over an advancing Jens Lehmann.
The half time introduction of Marcell Jansen after half time was the catalyst for Germany’s best spell of the game. Even then there was little threat that Iker Casillas would be beaten.
The introduction of Alonso for Fabregas swung any territorial advantage back Spain’s way and although Germany threw more players forward Spain was the team most likely to score.
With expectations raised for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa it will be very interesting to see how Spain reacts.
Ratings
Spain Casillas 7 – Lifting the trophy caused him more problems than the German attack.
Ramos 7 – Improved as the game progressed but mental errors are never far away.
Puyol 8 – Strong in the air and along with Marchena (8) presented a formidable barrier.
Capdevilla 7 – Had little to do but what he did do was accomplished with great effectiveness and efficiency.
Senna 9 – Another outstanding display of defensive midfield play but also exhibited great mobility and could have even scored in the last few minutes as he appeared in Germany’s six yard box.
Iniesta 9 – Enjoyed his best performance of the competition. If he put a foot wrong then I missed it. He was at the centre of most of Spain’s moves constantly prompting, passing and supporting.
Xavi Hernandez 8 - Just a smidgen off a 9. Played the through ball that Torres latched onto and scored from.
Cesc Fabregas 7 - Struggled to stamp any authority on the match.
Silva 7 – One of his quietest games of the tournament and was not as influential as we’ve come to expect.
Torres 8 – His pace and power a constant threat to the German defense. But even scoring the winning goal wasn’t enough to stop Aragones from substituting him.
Substitutes Alonso 7 – Helped Spain through the vital last half an hour.
Cazorla 7 – Brought on to replace Silva after he went head-to-head with Podolski. Did what he was supposed without being flashy.
Guiza 7 – With 12 minutes to go he had little time to establish himself but still delivered 100% effort in that time.
Germany
Lehmann 8 – Some may criticize him for the goal that was conceded but I wouldn’t. He never looked comfortable but he still pulled off three very good saves.
Friedrich 7 – Spain rarely attacked down Germany’s right and and for large spells of the game he was hardly noticeable.
Mertesacker 8 – Battled bravely and without him the the destination of the trophy would have been decided long before 90 minutes was up.
Metzelder 5 – The doubts about Metzelder’s readiness for this tournament were widely discussed in the lead up. Any problems he had in the previous games had not proven costly. It was not the case tonight. Nervous, indecisive and off the pace of the game.
Lahm 5 – At fault for the goal he only lasted 45 minutes.
Frings 7 – He fought the good fight and perhaps if he had better support in midfield the outcome might have been different.
Hitzlsperger 5 – Out of his depth. Lucky to last as long as he did.
Schweinsteiger 6 – A big disappointment. His set pieces were very poor and his hesitation to deliver early passes when the opportunity arose stifled a number of promising opportunities.
Ballack 7 – He was too occupied trying to contain the Spanish midfield and had little time to get forward and to support Klose.
Podolski 6 - Accomplished little and was never a threat.
Klose 6 – He never look comfortable, his touch was off and he strayed into off-site positions too often and too easily.
Substitutes Jansen 7 – He showed some of the form that was on display in the first game against Poland. A willingness to get stuck in and win some tackles provided a platform for some early German attacks in the second half.
Kuranyi 5 - He was given over 30 minutes to make an impact and he didn’t.
Gomez 5 – He spent as much time on the field has Guiza and delivered about 80% less.
Preview – Germany was my pre-tournament pick to win it all. Apart from a solid and sometimes impressive performance against Poland in their opening game this German team has failed to reach nights of the team of two summers ago.
Even though German coach Joachim Löw will be able to watch today’s game from the good seats he has more to worry about than the seating arrangements.
His team has a number of doubts with the injury to Torsten Frings the most pressing concern. Without Frings the German midfield will need to be shuffled with Ballack perhaps being asked to play deeper than usual. Either way the Germans need to find and execute a plan to contain Deco.
The biggest concern to Portugal might be Germany’s threat at set pieces. Carvalho and Pepe have been strangely hesitant on some cross balls in earlier games and that might be something Germany can exploit.
I’m not going to switch horses (better to be wrong once than wrong twice!) at this stage but would willingly concede that if Germany beat Portugal today it will run counter to the form book.
Misses next match if booked:
Portugal - Jose Bosingwa, Miguel, Jorge Ribeiro, Paulo Ferreira and Fernando Meira.
Germany - Michael Ballack and Jens Lehmann.
Referee: Peter Frojdfeldt, linesmen: Stefan Wittberg, Henrik Andren (all Sweden), fourth official: Kyros Vassaras (Greece)
Match Report Portugal 2-3 Germany
If you’re looking for an example of why group form doesn’t mean very much when it gets down to the knockouts stage here was a great example. Germany overcame an indifferent start to the tournament and knocked out a Portuguese side that was favored to move into the last four.
Joachim Low overcame the loss of Torsten Frings to injury by matching Portugal’s 4-2-3-1 formation. Hitzlsperger and the thoroughly impressive Rolfes took care of the defensive midfield duties which allowed Michael Ballack to support the lone striker Miroslav Klose while playing between Schweinsteiger on the right and Podolski on the left.
The move by the German coach seemed to take Portugal by surprise as they struggled in the early going to control Ballock.
The first of the five goals came after a surging run from Podolski. He held off Bosingwa (great going forward but looks very dodgy defending) and he created enough space to slide a cross to the onrushing Schweinsteiger who had lost his marker Ferreira.
Within minutes Germany was two goals to the good when Portugal got their marking all wrong at a free kick. While Portuguese markers focused on Ballack and were then distracted by a great dummy run from Rolfes, Klose was left all alone to hit home. But even then there were few signs that the scoring had finished.
Portugal was finding it far too easy to find teammates with passes and they had lots of space to operate in. More goals just had to come and another did just before of half time. Ronaldo found space behind the German back four and although Lehmann made a good save Nuno Gomes knocked a loose ball into the net.
As the second half got underway it seemed to be only a matter of time before Portugal would equalize and perhaps even to go on and win the game. But too often the final ball into the penalty box or the shot on goal was poor.
Ultimately it was another free kick that was to be Portugal’s undoing. It was almost identical to Germany’s second goal and again the Portuguese defense was culpable in their marking… or lack of. This time the cross reached Ballack and goalkeeper Ricardo was caught in no man’s land as the ball rolled into the net.
However, it was not to be a worry free last 30 minutes for German fans (and for those of us who have picked Germany in prediction pools!!). Between while dying a thousand deaths on the bench, Scolari managed to throw on substitutes Nani and Postiga and it was the two subs that combined for the last goal of the game with three minutes left.
A massive disappointment for Portugal and Germany becomes the first team into the last four. Five goals, lots of action, some sloppy defending and some excellent entertainment. Here’s hoping that it continues.
Comment of the Day
"No17 Germany – 1m98, No13 – 1m88, Klose – 1m82, No21 – 195. I have to worry about that – and that my players are 115cm, 120cm." - Luiz Felipe Scolari.
Prediction Update
Nearly 20% of posters (too many to list) got the finishing positions of countries in group D spot on. It tightened things up at the top and Sounderfan has dropped down to second place. According to my calculations here is everyone currently with 20 points or more.The highest possible total after the group stage was 32 points.
One person who did not post his predictions on the blog but if he had he would be leading by a solid margin would be FSR anchor Carlos Machado. Carlos’ only missteps to date were switching the finishing order or Germany/ Croatia and Austria/Poland in Group B.
If he had posted his predictions he would be sitting on 28 points at the moment. Quite an impressive performance from Carlos who also took out time out to complete the Manitoba Marathon last Sunday in a little under four hours.
Questions
These two questions were posted yesterday.
1. So far, is this a better tournament than Euro 2004?
2. Without checking the statistics do you think Euro 2008 has produced more, about the same or less goals than Euro 2004?
My sense is that this is a better tournament than we saw four years ago. The pace is quicker, more teams are committed to going forward and attacking and there have been a number of more memorable performances to date.
I was surprised that there have been fewer goals in the group stage than there was in 2004. Perhaps my memory is clouded by day scarcity of goals in the knockout stage in Portugal. And who knows, there is a strong chance that goals will again be hard to come by once more in the knockout stage.
The cooler temperatures (slightly warmer temperatures in Austria – 26 goals, cooler in Switzerland –31 goals) are likely encouraging a faster pace game and rewarding the countries that are willing to go out and take the game to the opposition.
The Netherlands, Spain, Russia, Portugal, Turkey (second-half anyway), Croatia and, despite what many knee-jerk stereotype dependant critics will tell you, Italy all benefited by adopting an aggressive approach.
The “what we have we hold brigade” (France, Romania, Poland, Greece and Sweden) are all on the way home. To date only Germany of the sides who have approached the tournament with containment in mind (to be fair it may be a case with Germany that they have just misfired badly) has made it to the knockout stage.
Total Football Revisited
On day eight I posted a comment about commentators who described the Dutch style of 2008 as a total football. I suggested that you should distrust any such description. Gabriele Marcotti suggests that you go a step further and punch them in the mouth!
Before we gaze into the crystal ball here are some statistics collected from UEFA.com and other sources on the players, countries and club affiliations at Euro 2008.
Players Oldest – Ivica Vastica a midfielder for Austria will be 39 in September which makes him six weeks older than Germany’s goalkeeper Jens Lehmann.
Youngest – Swiss forward Eren Derdiyok will no longer be a teenager when he turns 20 in six days time.
Tallest – Czech Republic forward Jan Koller stands at 202 cms. which is little over 6 foot 8 inches. But beware Koller and other tall players have been known to grow during major tournaments. Commentators take it upon themselves to add half an inch here and there and so if the Czechs reach the final game don’t be surprised if Koller is over seven foot by June 29th.
Shortest – The player jumping up and down in the tall grass will be Romanian midfielder Florentin Petre who is nearly 5 foot and six and a half inches although he claims that the wall chart in kitchen shows six and five eighth inches.
Countries (average) Oldest Sweden 29.14
Italy 29.10
Greece 29.05
Youngest Russia 26.13
Switzerland 26.38
Spain 26.40
Countries with players 21 or under at the start of the the tournament - 21 Switzerland, Portugal, Austria and Turkey 3 each
Croatia, France and Poland 2 each
Romania, Czech Republic and Spain 1 each
Countries with outfield players 34 or over at the start of the the tournament - 16 Austria, Sweden, France, Croatia, Italy and Czech Republic 2 each
Poland, Italy, Germany and Turkey 1 each
Countries with the fewest domestic based players in their squad Croatia 2
Czech Republic 3
Countries with the most domestic based players in their squad Russia 22
Germany and Italy 19
Tallest (average) Croatia 184.91 (a smidgen under 6 foot 2 inches)
Germany 184.87
Switzerland 184.61
Shortest (average) Spain 179.61 (180 is 6 foot)
Turkey 180.35
Portugal 180.57
Players contributed by clubs Panathinaikos (Greece) and Lyon (France) 10 each
Galatasaray (Turkey) and Bayern Munich 9 each
Premiership clubs represented – 17 of 20. Arsenal and Chelsea 7
Liverpool 5
Manchester United 4
Highest representation of players by league Germany 56
England 43
Spain 41
Italy 36
Russia 30
For those making predictions don’t be to despondent should your “dead-cert can’t lose winner” get off to a slow start. There is ample evidence to show that countries can recover from a set-back or two at the group stage and still go on to the final or even win the Championship.
1980 – Belgium won only once in the group stage but went on to finish as runners-up to Germany.
1984 – Spain recorded just one win in three group games but qualified for the knock out stage all the same and finished as runners-up to France.
1988 – The Netherlands lost their opening game of the tournament to the Soviet Union but gained revenge when the counties met again in the final when the Dutch won 2-0.
1992 – Danish players were recalled from the beaches and golf courses of Europe to take the place of Yugoslavia. Denmark had a draw and a loss in their first two group games before beating France and moving into the last eight. From there the Netherlands were beaten in a penalty kick shoot-out and the Danes took the title beating Germany 2-0 in the final.
1996 – The Czech Republic lost their opening group game 2-0 to Germany but rebounded to make the final against the same opponent. However, Germany doubled the Czechs with a golden goal from Oliver Bierhoff.
2004 – Few would have predicted that the two countries that opened the tournament would also make it all the way to the final match. But that was exactly what happened. Greece beat Portugal 2-1 in the opener and then again 1-0 in the final.
However, few seem to remember that the opening game win was Greece’s only victory in group play. The second match was a 1-1 draw with Spain and Russia then beat the eventual winners 2-1. Portugal actually won group A while Greece only moved on based on scoring more goals than Spain having finished tied on both points and goal differential.
Predictions Before anyone jumps all over anyone's predictions there is one rule. No criticism allowed unless you also post your own predictions under the comments section. A scoring system can be found at the end of my predictions.
Group A 1. Portugal 2. Czech Republic 3. Switzerland 4. Turkey
Group B 1. Germany 2. Croatia 3. Poland 4. Austria
Group C 1. France 2. Romania 3. Italy 4. Netherlands
There has to be at least one surprise and for me this is it. I flipped between France and Italy not to qualify and the decision eventually swung on Cannavaro’s injury and the potential France have available from the bench. We will see.
Group D 1. Spain 2. Greece 3. Sweden 4. Russia
Quarter Finals Portugal to beat Croatia
Germany to beat Czech Republic
France to beat Greece
Spain to beat Romania
Semi Finals Germany to beat Portugal
France to beat Spain
Final Germany to beat France
Prediction scoring system 1 point for every group position picked correctly.
2 bonus points for getting 1st or 2nd position in the group correct
3 points for correctly predicting the winners of each of the quarter final matches
5 points for correctly predicting the winners of the semi finals
10 points for correctly predicting the winners of the competition.
By my calculation sixty-four points (64) constitutes the maximum score.
There have been more than a few articles written after Arsenal’s recent
slump in the Premiership and their exit from the Champions League to Liverpool.
The themes are common, Arsene Wenger should have strengthened the squad during
the January transfer window (as if signing players comes with any sort of
success guarantee); Arsenal needs to rebuild; too young; too old in the case of
Gilberto; “poor me” ala Jens Lehmann.
But how many of these writers, pundits and bloggers picked Arsenal to win
the Premiership this season or even to finish in the top three? My memory of
last August is that a lot of them – even a few Arsenal fans – were looking at a
fourth place Premiership finish at best.
A good number were suggesting that in the wake of Thierry Henry’s
departure for Barcelona that 5th place might even be a more
realistic target. A good run in the Champions League and beating the reigning
European Champions along the way? Not even on the radar.
So how can a team that was so widely dismissed just eight months ago overachieve
and still be considered a failure? The fact of the matter is that Arsenal have
become victim of rising expectations rather than of under achievement. What if
instead of starting the season undefeated in 15 games they had started
disappointingly like Liverpool or even Chelsea and then hit a winning streak
that took them up to third place in the Premiership? We would be inundated by articles fawning
over this Arsenal side as one on the rise and the team to watch next season.
What about the Champions League you say? Liverpool won but the two legs
largely hinged on two penalty decisions that both went Liverpool’s way. Winning
and losing at the top level often sits precariously on a knife edge and in
these two situations the breaks went Liverpool’s way. And sometime in the
future they won’t – as has happened in the past (Chelsea penalty at Anfield in
October anybody?).
But that doesn’t seem to matter to those prone to knee jerk reactions and
with a proclivity to throw a whole nursery class out with the bath water let
alone just one child. With five games to go Arsenal are favourites to finish
above Liverpool in the Premiership and could still finish second ahead of
Chelsea – or even Manchester United.
Given that Liverpool or Chelsea is going to be knocked out at the
semi-final stage of the Champions League and both were knocked out of the FA Cup by Barnsley, can we
expect to read articles about the need for Liverpool or Chelsea to rebuild
their sides?
After all, if Arsenal finishes above them and needs to start over then
why not other teams who finish below them? With five Premiership games left
Arsenal have already gained more points than last season, have a much improved
away record and progressed further in the Champions League than twelve months
ago. The team is younger than their main rivals. What’s more Wenger now knows
for sure what his younger players are capable of – they have been given a
chance. Some have passed examination and a few have come up short.
The short comings of the current Arsenal squad have been made clear but
it is a side that is far more likely to get better than one that might slip
into reverse gear. It does need selective strengthening but it is no time for
lemming-style talk of dumping players and starting all over again. The last flock went over a cliff at the end
of the 2003 season and look what they missed.
Phils92001 - The point that I want to make is that of Newcastle. I think that If Big Sam cannot find the goal from Owen, he needs to drop him to the bench and play the one that give the club 17 goals last season.
I think Martins is being robbed the opportunity of not have the chance to play. The club might regret if Martin leaves and that he has lost confidence in the coach because he is playing limited minutes as he used to play last season. If I am correct, whenever Martins and Emre play, there is a different form of attack than what they have now for the pass two game and that Martin scores which is something different than what Owen pose now.
Owen is playing like he is afraid to going into tackles. Whether it is due to his past injury or he is trying to rediscover his form, it might be too late for Big Sam. please give your thoughts on these comments.
Bobby – I think you are looking at this from only one side. If you took the route your suggesting then Allardyce would play Martins and keep Owen on the bench. By doing that Allardyce has no chance that Owen will ever get back to match fitness.
A match fit Owen is a goal machine and as such is a better option than Martins. I’m certain that Owens Premiership record to minutes played at Newcastle is superior to Martins.
There is no doubt that Martins can be an explosive player but he is also very inconsistent and there are times he could not hit a barn door if it was three yards in front of him. There is a reason that Inter generally used him as a substitute.
Djnima – 1. You were right about McLaren not getting the Galaxy job, but do you think he was there to apply for the job? Do you think there was an interview? 2. How would you rate England and Scotland's chances of qualifying for the Euros? 3. Do you think Real Madrid have a chance of making the Champions league Final this season?
Bobby – No and no – a figment of someone's over stimulated imagination. I cannot imagine anyone being that stupid especially when the English press is watching every move. 2. Not all that good on either count. At least Scotland can affect their fate; England needs to hope and pray. However, if Russia stumbles against Israel I cannot see England passing up a second opportunity. 3. Based on their form so far I would be very surprised if they made it to the last four.
Ringo - Did you hear the rumours a couple of weeks back that if/when England and Scotland fail to qualify ,they might play each other in a pair of games at Wembley and Hampden instead?
Bobby – I know that Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales have been lobbying for a return of the Home Internationals but I have not heard about the possibility of an England / Scotland series.
Getz76 - Quick Arsenal question; who's their keeper after the January transfer window? I hear rumors of Green coming from WHU and I would love to believe it, as I think he has as much to do with WHU staying up last season as Tevez. Any other candidates. I know Wenger tends to grab players from Parts Unknown most of the time, but I do not think he will gamble as much on a keeper.
Bobby – If Arsene Wenger signs a keeper it is unlikely to be one presently playing in the UK. In the majority of cases he would have the option to sign one of them before this and obviously he passed on it. He went the English route with Richard Wright and it did not work out. I would suggest that Wenger would consider signing a UK keeper a bigger risk than signing one from your “Parts Unknown”. If Lehmann shut his mouth and was on his best behavior like he was during the season before the 2006 World Cup then he would be starting for Arsenal in goal. At the moment every time he opens his mouth it is to change feet – Wenger cannot recall him as long as he is spouting off.
CIAO - Marcotti's article this week is a bit strange. He really must not have anything to write about and is picking on Martin O'Neil. Isn't a bit early to call O'Neil's time at Villa disappointing? There are no signs that his position is in jeopardy. If the owner had more expectations, we would have seen highly rated players make their way to the club during the summer.
Bobby – O’Neill’s first season may not have been as good as others before him but I would say Villa has a more solid foundation on which to build than they have had for a long time.
They have a very good group of youngsters and if Carson signs permanently then they should have a solid keeper for seasons to come – I have never been a fan of Sorensen. A good shot blocker but brutal of crosses.
Although Marcotti is correct in terms of a consistent goal scoring threat. Agbonlahor will get goals but they need another to partner him. Carew has the tools to be a great striker………except for the part that scores goals.
Apad03 - 1. I read the post on Gullit but what I want to know that really wasn’t in the article is what type of football can we expect to see from his team? Does he have an attacking type of style or what? I am not familiar with his managerial style so I am curious to see what type of football he is going to instill on his new team.
2. What is the best duo, in your opinion, up front for Liverpool? I think they should be playing Voronin and Torres up front. Voronin has some sweet passing skills and I think that with Torres' speed and touch they would make the best partnership up front for Liverpool. I don’t remember seeing them play together yet but I know you'll correct me if I am wrong.
Bobby –1. In terms of Gullit and his arrival at the Galaxy you will soon see countless articles that talk of “Total Football.” Don’t believe a word of it. The concept of Total Football evolved through the work of a number of coaches until it became personified in the Ajax side of the early 70s and Dutch national team at the 1974 World Cup.
The concept requires incredibly skilled players both technically and tactically as well as exceptional speed and fitness. The essence of it is that the ten players (and some would point out that the goalkeeper is expected to do more tactically aware also) are expected to be able to play in any of the outfield positions through constant movement and changing of positions which creates space when attacking and takes it away when defending.
It also requires the team to play a high pressure pressing game a part that Milan perfected under Arrigo Sacchi – with Gullit, Rijkaard and Van Basten in the side. Gullit will not have players talented enough at the Galaxy to play “Total Football”.
However, you can expect Gullit to emphasize speed and width – maybe a standard 4-3-3 formation with two wide players up front. Passing and possession will be paramount. It should be entertaining although I would not be surprised if the start of next season is a struggle as the team copes with the change.
I think someone like Landon Donovan could really benefit from the new regime.
2. If Kuyt can recover any sort of form then the best pairing for me would be Torres and Kuyt.
Let’sGoBuffalo - Any chance we will see a ban on Italian Calcio, like the one UEFA bestowed upon England in the late 80's, early 90's?With all the corruption(inside the game) and violence from the fans it’s no wonder something like this happened.
Bobby – As long as the issue is domestic trouble in Italy there is no chance that UEFA or FIFA would step in. It would create a dangerous precedent that would have far reaching impact on other leagues should anything remotely similar happen. Just to cover old ground – The FA withdrew English teams from European competition after pressure was applied by Margaret Thatcher’s government. The UEFA ban came after that decision was made.
CIAO - Have you heard of Marat Izmailov? Supposedly City, Inter and Sampdoria are all in the race to sign him...
Bobby – I have heard of him but do not know very much about him. I believe he is playing in Portugal on loan from his Russian club side.
Craigy_f –1. What’s your take on the upcoming Scotland Italy game? 2. Do you see Hughes as a successor to Ferguson? 3. How would you rate Martin O’Neill’s tenure at Villa?
Bobby –1. I am not optimistic – I’ve just seen this movie too many times. I hope I am wrong but I see Italy getting the result that they need.
2. I could see Mark Hughes doing a good job at Old Trafford but what I can’t see is a set of circumstances that would position him to take over. Manchester United would not appoint him straight from Blackburn so I think he has to move to a bigger club either in England or abroad but I can’t see where the opportunity might come from.
3. See one of the previous responses.
Chelseabon - Recent news is the Seattle Sounders will be an MLS team in 2009, and it will follow a "club member/owner" style scheme which Barcelona uses where the fans get to vote managers out. Though it appears to work for Barca, I don't feel that this is the best idea for a brand new MLS side. What are your thoughts on this ownership style coming to the US?
Bobby – I was not aware that Barcelona can vote the manager out. They elect the President as they do at Real Madrid and other clubs but I can’t remember a situation where the members voted for a manager’s dismissal.
From what I have been able to discern to compare the Seattle idea with Barcelona’s model is like comparing Paris Hilton’s “work” with drunken elephants to Mother Teresa.
Barcelona is owned by the members – full stop. Seattle has owners who are putting substantial monies up and they are considering granting fans an opportunity to buy a “membership”. From the pieces I have read the Seattle model is little more than an enhanced supporters club and although it might be well intentioned it iappears to be no more than a gimmick.
Henry14 – q1. Can you explain big Sam's lack of tactical nous, why he plays Smith as a defensive midfield, Martins is there to goal scorer but he is on the bench, here is a guy who scored 17 goals last season, more than Viduka and Owen. q 2 How does Barton escape punishment for a horror tackle when Dunn misses games for two not malicious tackles? q 3 Will Mac stay as England boss given a wide call for him to be not sacked? q 4 Are reds genuine title contenders?
Bobby –1. Martins may have scored 17 goals but Viduka scored more - 19. Owen was injured for most of the season so it is hardly a fair comparison. Never been convinced that Martins is a reliable starter saw it with Inter. Over the careers of Owen and Viduka their individual strike rates are far better than Martins.
2. I think the FA chickened out on this one.
3. You must be hearing voices “a wide call for him not to be sacked”?
4. Yes but they need to go on an extended winning streak and stop drawing games against teams that they should be beating. The mid-December meeting with Manchester United is crucial – a loss might leave them nine points behind with nearly half the season gone.
Verbal 97- First, can (or rather will) a team like Portsmouth or Bolton be able to claim 3rd or 4th? Second, can someone from the pack jump into the title race (i.e., is there precedence that someone as many as 16 points down at this stage of the season winning the title)?
Bobby- To answer the second question first, I can't remember anybody coming back from 16 points down, particularly as someone else has pointed out when two teams are involved. In regards to Portsmouth or Bolton or other such teams, the squad depth will have a major impact as well as avoiding injuries. That is where the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal have a significant advantage over the other teams. If you're looking for a team to spring a surprise then maybe you look at last year when Spurs got knocked out of both cups early and were able to concentrate on the league. A third-round exit in the FA Cup, early in the New Year may actually turn out to be a blessing in disguise for someone.
BlueBlades-Being an Everton Fan it has become very frustrating that we don’t seem to score very many goals. Is this the players fault or the system that the team plays? Do you think James Beattie should be moved on and the younger players given more opportunities? Victor Anachebie looks like he would run through brick wall for the side.
Bobby-I think if you go back to last year's Everton’s scoring rate has increased. But then again, last year was pretty awful. I think you have to factor in that Arteta and Cahill are both out and they create and score a lot of Everton's goals. Beattie’s scoring rate is down significantly from when he was at Southampton and Moyes must be losing patience with him I would think. However, you have to consider that the relegation battle this year is going be very tight and although Everton are sitting in mid table I don't think they could count themselves out of trouble quite yet. Until Moyes feels safe I can't see him gambling on youngsters from the start.
Gunner 44- Great game it was. Essien is the best midfielder in the EPL at the moment the guy can do everything, even Vieira and R. Kean weren't this good where they? One thing I noticed though is the high pressure that Arsenal put on Sunday. They did the same against Tottenham and it seems to bother teams. Even Chelsea some times lost the ball because of it. So I think Wenger should keep telling his team to do that but when they win the ball they have to finish the opponents off.
Bobby-the difference perhaps is that Patrick Vieira and Roy Keane did it for season after season. The way that Arsenal played against Chelsea (early on) and Spurs was quite reminiscent of the way Milan used to play- placing the opposition under pressure high up the park. As for finishing the opponents off, I am sure Arsenal team are not missing chances on purpose!
Henry 14- Is it worth to put a player of Robben's ability on the bench when Sheva is not performing, because l feel Robben would make it in any of the top four team's first eleven, how do you view that?
Bobby- Robben tends to be quite inconsistent - on his game he could play for just about anybody, but he is not always on his game. It is quite different coming into a game than it is starting one. On Sunday, Robben was able to take advantage of a tiring Arsenal side and the space created between Hleb and Fabregas.
ranndino-The whole episode with Lehmann and Drogba provided me with some comical relief. What penalty, Bobby? They both totally exaggerated the contact and dived. Lehmann's push on Drogba would not have knocked down a 10-year old girl. Same goes for the flop Jens took when Drogba came back at him. It all reminded me of old Charlie Chaplin films really. Except his falling over looked less fake.
One small comment about Sheva. I absolutely agree that patience is required. I think he's been getting better in the last few games. However, it is really difficult for Jose to keep Robben on the bench. He completely turned the match when he came on and is 10 times more effective than Shevchenko at the moment (and I'm a big fan of Sheva). With Robben on the bench Chelsea have no width and look very short of ideas up front. It's mostly limited to individual runs by Drogba and long shots by Lampard. I still think that dumping Duff for Sheva has really hurt Chelsea. With Duff and Robben Chelsea's attack was nearly unstoppable.
Bobby- What penalty? Then why yellow cards? I think the Duff and Robben combination was much more effective two seasons ago. I'm not sure the statistics from last year backup your argument about Duff and Robben being nearly unstoppable. Duff only started in 18 Premiership games last season and was substituted in 14 of them. Robben last season started 21 games and was substituted in 10 of them. So between the two of them they only managed to complete 15 games.
USA England fan-What was your favorite goal and favorite match of the weekend, and who would you say was MVP (I'm guessing Essien)?
Bobby-There were certainly some crackers on the weekend- Essien, Matthew Taylor, Pedersen to name three. My favourite has to be Essien though -a clutch goal. As the MVP- I would probably go for Gilberto Silva, he held Arsenal together particularly in the first half.
Bigmacmtl - I believe there was no penalty given because Drogba was not pushed during open play? (Drogba and Lehmann incident).
Bobby- From the commentary it certainly sounded as if the ball was in play – there was a foul, the referee booked the players, why wasn't a free kick given where the incident took place which was in the penalty box - why not a penalty? I would agree that the referee showed good sense, but my point was that by his stupidity Jens Lehmann could have cost his team dearly.
Riocharlie- One thing I’ve noticed during the 1st half of the season, are the number of young Irish lads making strong contributions to their sides. Is there a renaissance of Irish football under way? They have a tough Euro qualifying group, how do you rate their chances?
Bobby- I think you have to keep your eyes on Ireland for 2010 World Cup qualifying. They got off to a bad start in Euro qualifying and I can't see them catching the Czech Republic and Germany.
bigdavedisaster - I have admired the play of Gamst-Pedersen since early last season great balls in especially from corners is there any talk of him moving from Blackburn?
Bobby- There was some talk a year or so about Gamst-Pedersen may be going to Old Trafford. But I don't think a wide midfield player is really what Alex Ferguson is looking for.
Carljamaica – I am from Jamaica and I make sure I don’t miss the show when you are on. What will Man Utd have to do to get a little credit? I always wonder what team you support. Is it me or does Man Utd seem to not get much love at all. Everyone talks about their squad and it’s like everybody expects them to falter, and how they have had a good home fixture. that team as always done well on the road, from week one everyone has been predicting united will soon come unstuck and now we are in week 17. Do you think united can win the league? I just think people need to give credit where it is due and look beyond Chelsea and their whining players. A couple weeks ago Drogba said he was the best striker, now he is stuck on eight goals and a number of players have caught up with him. Man Utd. has done well and if Fergie get one or two players in January then I honestly believe they can win it. Chelsea is just stupid cause there is no way Robben should be on the bench, they can’t expect to out muscle teams every week, they need some spark that Robben has.
btw which players do you think could be available for Man Utd that would help that team in January?
Bobby- Interesting Carl, I usually get accused of going light on Manchester United! I think people are cautious about United's chances of winning the league because of the depth of the squad, and in particular, a shortage of quality midfield players -- central midfield players -- and what would happen if Saha or Rooney were injured.Talk of signing Fernando Torres percolates every now and again, and of course, Owen Hargreaves who seems to me to be just a younger version of Philip Neville.
Djnima - Do you think Jose will stick around if he fails to win the league or the champs league this season?
Bobby-I think Mourinho is just as liable to leave if he wins the league or the champions league this season as he is to leave if he doesn't. Ronaldo has been absolutely outstanding so far this season and has been the player of the season so far IMHO.
Realmadridcffan - 1. Out of the EPL managers their right now, which manager gives the best post game sound bites or press conference quotes? 2. With the January transfer window coming soon, who do you see so far being mentioned as the biggest name to move to a different club? 3. What do you think of the FIFA World Club Cup? I find it is ok, but 6 teams is too awkward and with the fixture schedule as hectic as it is for the clubs in this competition, is it even feasible to have in reality?
Bobby- I like Stuart Pearce’s honesty, and I'm waiting for Steve Coppell to crack a smile. I'm not sure that there will be many big-name moves during the transfer window- Ribery perhaps? FIFA will not let the Club World Cup die so we may as well get used to it. It will take a couple of years, and a few good games for the fans to embrace it. Next year will be the last tournament in Japan and taking the competition around the world will help.
Eriktheviking-re: Sheva I'm not sure what is worse for Sheva--Chelsea's system or Lampard either shooting whenever he gets the ball or making all those CF runs in the box. Sheva drops to receive the ball. Lampard fills the CF channel. Sheva is left supporting play.
Bobby- I thought it was interesting that the comments Shevchenko supposedly didn't make seemed quite accurate to me. When he was at Milan it seemed like the player's knew exactly the areas that they were to operate in, while at Chelsea a number of players seem to want to operate in the same area.
Richard Winton describes Steven Pressley's exit from Tynecastle.The latest rumours have Pressley heading south - Southampton perhaps?
Brian Cooney attempts to solve one of the great mysteries of Scottish football. Why did such a rare talent as George Connolly, walkout on Celtic in the 70s?
Amy Lawrence comments on the situation at Milan. Milan looked poor and quite stale against Torino on Sunday.
After giving Friday's announcement by U.S.S.F. President Sunil Gulati of Bob Bradley's appointment more thought, I am more convinced than before that this has been badly mishandled.
Gulati had the chance to simply announce that Bob Bradley would be taking over responsibility for the USA Olympic team. Further, negotiations with Jurgen Klinsmann had broken down after being at an advanced stage and that in the meantime, until a permanent coach was appointed, Bob Bradley will also be in charge of the full national team. Nothing more.
Unfortunately, when Gulati started to talk about Bradley being a potential candidate to stay on long-term, he started to dig himself a very big hole. What possible criteria, could you apply to Bradley's performance over the next six months - over three years before the next World Cup - that could possibly tell you more than is known now?
Finally, some comments on the Chelsea - Arsenal game.
1. Chelsea did hit the woodwork three times, and had one shot cleared off the line.
2. I thought Gilberto Silva and Michael Essien were absolutely outstanding. Just like at Old Trafford a few weeks ago, Essien turned the game for Chelsea.
3. Are Shevchenko's critics the same people who wrote off Drogba and Essien?
4. If referee Alan Wiley yellow carded Jens Lehmann for this push on Didier Drogba, then booked Drogba for retaliation, why did the referee not award Chelsea a penalty?
I am a bit behind this morning. We went to see country music legend Don Williams last night and so I am going to have to watch the EPL highlights show and the FSWR on tape.
Another wild and woolly weekend. It could not have turned out better for SAF (my thoughts on Fergie the greatest ever can be read tomorrow). Meanwhile we are still waiting to hear why Terry got sent off. Watching the replays of the incident during the match there is something very untoward about it. Terry and a Spurs player (King?) get tangled in the penalty box but there is nothing unusual about that. Then when Terry gets up and starts to move away some of the Spurs players are livid. A ruckus ensues then Terry gets called over and sent off – he says nothing which given what is becoming Chelsea’s natural reaction to referee’s decisions is surprising. Terry did something (I have read elsewhere that he threw a punch but I have yet to see it) otherwise he and the other Chelsea players would surely have reacted. Maybe Terry can come clean and tell Jose.
Anyway on to some weekend articles.
Anthony Stokes is on loan from Arsenal at Falkirk and he is currently the hottest player in Scotland.
Michael Grant on the club that the then Alex Ferguson left twenty years ago. It was a move that all but brought to an end an era when the Old Firm was firmly second class citizen in Scotland.
One of the British games great characters Tommy Docherty (the original man who has had more clubs than Jack Nicklaus) has just released on new book “The Doc, Hallowed Be Thy Game.”
Some interesting observations from Stewart Robson on the ability of Jens Lehmann and Edwin van der Sar to start attacks with excellent distribution.
Steve Tongue makes some astute observations about Chelsea. I find it interesting that on a number of occasions since he took over at Stamford Bridge Mourinho has been compared to Brian Clough. It seems to me that Mourinho has more in common with Don Revie. Revie’s Leeds team of the 60’s and early 70’s, although widely admired for the football that they were capable of playing, was widely despised for the cynical win-at-all-costs approach.
…….and now that I have brought up Leeds. After losing on Saturday to Barnsley, Leeds now sit 23rd in the 24-team Championship. Six years after playing in the Champions League semi-final. Leeds and new boss Dennis Wise are facing a relegation battle to avoid what is really Division Three.
Peter Risdale may have lived the dream, but he has the left Leeds to face the nightmare.
Gunner 44 - I think what we should learn from this is the EPL is a marathon not a sprint. But even in a marathon you don't want to be last for a long time you have to keep moving up as the race goes on. But anyways on Friday I heard you say that you don't see Arsenal winning the title and I just have to ask why? Because I think they have as much chance of winning it as Man U and Chelsea.
Bobby – My reasoning is that as the weather deteriorates Arsenal will drop points. I am also not convinced that they have got their wide midfield and full back players sorted out and in particular the left hand side where have been playing without a naturally left footed player. With Clichy back it will help but he will need time to get back to full match fitness.
Manchesterboy4life - I am just wondering what you think of Man U having a strong start to both the premiership and Champions league and if you think they have the depth to go deep in Europe and still hold off the Blues on the home front? Also do you hear of maybe some transfer news that we who are not in the know may be oblivious to?
Bobby – I cannot see United succeeding on two fronts. If they get passed the last 8 in the Champions league I will be surprised. They look to me to be a side that looks better equipped to have a run at the league title. They have surprised me by scoring the number of goals they have this season so far.
USAEnglandfan - Bad to worse at West Ham... really breaks my heart because they were one of my favorite teams to watch last season, they have some of my favorite players, and Pardew has that easy-going air that I really like. I have only been able to watch a select few EPL games this season so I'm a bit out of the loop, but how are NRC and Benayoun doing? What can this slide be attributed to? It has to be something more than the Argies signings.
Speaking of which, I don't fully buy the Argentina-England incompatibilitytheory. Heinze has done fine, Arca was Sunderland's only bright spot and was pretty highly sought after in the EPL this summer, and am I wrong that D'Alessandro had a solid run at Portsmouth? Personally I think the issue is that most of the talented Argentinians are snapped up by Spain before the EPL cares to look.
Last question: West Ham has a decent amount of stars. If West Ham goes down, what big name guys do you guys think would sink with them?
Bobby – I have only seen a limited amount of West Ham games this season so I am probably not in a great position to comment…but. It appears to me that there is just a general malaise about their play. Zamora was on a good run early on but nobody else is picking up goals. I know Dean Ashton only played the second half of the season but I think he was a big reason why WHU finished strongly last season. I expected better this season…a lot better but we might be seeing that a number of the players just played over their heads last season.
Your comments about Argentine players are well stated. Just with any nationality – some will work out and some will struggle. Back in the late 70’s when Villa and Ardiles signed for Spurs was a fantastic success while Villa – despite his fantastic goal to beat Man City in the FA Cup – was a disappointment.
Djnima - Very interesting article on Rosicky. I agree with the article in that Wenger is playing Rosicky out of his natural position. However, the professor has no alternative. I don't think he can play Rosicky and Cesc in the middle of the pitch without being soft at the back. Gilberto has to come into the equation to help out in defense. I think playing Rosicky on the wing to adapt him to the EPL will smooth out his transition.
I am not an arsenal fan but it has been such a pleasure to watch them play football!
Bobby – I agree that Rosicky is being played in a wide position to allow him to accustom himself to the Premiership. I still believe that Rosicky has been signed to replace Bergkamp and you will see him paired with Henry but just a little deeper.
neophyte - Since we are on the subject of Keepers (I enjoyed that article about it being the safest spot on the field) who are your top three EPL Keepers? May I taint your opinion a bit--Is there anyone out there with as good of technique as Van Der Sar?
Bobby – The good ones to choose from: Van der Sar, Cech, Lehmann (didn’t think I would ever say that), Friedel, Reina (last season), Robinson, Given and ….David James.
I will discount age. I would place Cech first, Van der Sar second and then I have trouble splitting Lehmann, Freidel and Given for third place.
bigdavedisaster - All this talk about the EPL lacking teams with skills is simply wrong in my opinion. I’ll put up the skills of Arsenal Man U and Chelsea (all of which I hate) up against the top three teams in any other league. As in most league the teams at the top with the players tend to play a more skilled "pretty" game while the lesser teams have to scrap and hustle for the few chances that they get. Comparing leagues is simply a matter of taste. It’s comparing apples to apples and the champions league helps do that.
Bobby – I have never understood the argument of which league is “the best” and fans dismissing leagues because the quality is poor. The beauty of the game is that it can be played in many different ways that emphasize different qualities and attributes. It is also a game that can be played at any skill level. To me the issue is not which is the best league, it is whether or not what you are watching entertains and engages you.
gooner17 - Maybe Hunt did or didn’t mean to hit Cech but how come no one is saying anything about Ferreira? iI was taught as a defender to shield off attackers to protect your keeper in those situations and to make sure the keeper wins the ball first. Instead he just points to where the ball is (like Cech couldn't see it) and lets his keeper get nailed. Ferreira should feel just as bad as Hunt.
Bobby – Excellent point on Ferreira. I saw another example today in the Chelsea game of something that shocked me. It was the second half and Shevchenko was in a central position and passed the ball to Lampard(?) in the inside left position. Shevchenko then made to go beyond Lampard and to move into a position around about the edge of the penalty box on the left. I was taught never to run in front of a teammate who has the ball…..which is exactly what Shevchenko did. Shevchenko should have side stepped Lampard and made a run behind him which would have allowed Lampard to thread a ball through to Shevchenko who would have then been moving at full throttle. As it was Lampard had to hesitate because he could not pass the ball till Shevchenko was out of his way and by the time he could pass the ball Shevchenko had run into an offside position.
buffytvs- 1) Today Charlton reaffirmed their faith in Ian Dowie. Isn't such an announcement usually the immediate prelude to a firing?
2) Seems to me a disproportionate number of 'Goals of the Week' emanate from the MSL. Who picks these things?
Bobby – Aaah – the dreaded vote of confidence. Time for Ian Dowie to update his CV. As for who picks the “Goals of the Week” – I have to say I don’t know.
henry14 - l have to say first congratulation to Liverpool and Chelsea, but when l look at their game it was one of the worst attitudes to football by Jose Mourinho, what was a back four quickly became a back seven, it was boring , similarily to the game arsenal played against CSKA Moscow, it was a miserable game , they had 8 men in the box which is a very poor approach, the performance does not give me much to think they can go all the way, what did you think watching the game
Bobby – I didn’t see the Arsenal game but I did watch Chelsea and Barcelona. It was a disappointing affair. Chelsea forced Barcelona to play into congested areas of the park and their tactics worked almost to perfection. Without Eto’o Barcelona is missing speed through the centre and that allowed the Chelsea defense to play tight on the forwards. If anyone was likely to score for Barcelona it looked to be Messi.
And finally there was a lot of discussion on the Cech injury and the role played by Stephen Hunt. My take is that there was no intention on the part of Hunt to injure Cech. Quite simply if you are going to go after someone you would put the boot in; you would not use your knee. You have to be an absolute #### to try to inflict injury by the use of a knee given that the odds are that you will come out the worst of it. Hunt was going full speed, Cech slid into his path and Hunt when to go to ground. Gravity takes over at that point and there is no way to avoid the collision.
Mourinho’s comments about the ambulance taking 30 minutes to get to the ground were another example of the Chelsea manager’s unfortunate tendency towards exaggeration in times of stress. Two seasons ago he said he saw Barcelona manager Frank Rijkaard enter the dressing room of referee Anders Frisk at half-time only to have to back down and admit that he had never seen anything of the sort. Now he claims 30 minutes when the records apparently show the actual time taken was only 7 minutes. It is not an endearing trait of Jose’s.
Here are a few stories that I read over the weekend that might spark some debate.
David Bond has a story in which he details CONCACAF’s President Jack Warner response to the growing ticket scandal. It seems to me that Warner’s reaction is a strong indication that he no longer feels protected and has been flushed out.
Jack Warner is now suing. In the words of the late great Mr. Roy Orbison it seems that we have a severe case of “Running Scared”. This is from the CONCACAF website. (Surprisingly I could not find a way to order tickets).
I stand to be corrected on this but if my memory does serve me correctly then the red herring in this move is the filing of the lawsuit in Switzerland. There was a simllar suit against Andrew Jennings after his expose of the Olympic movement and in particular the old Fascist Juan Antonio Samaranch. In Swiss law you can be found guilty of defamation if you look sideways at someone - ok an exagerration but you get my drift. However, Swiss court decisions are about as intimidating as their navy. If Warner was serious he would have filed someplace else. And I don't believe he has to file in Switzerland just because FIFA is based there.
The English press is working overtime ahead of a BBC Panorama broadcast into kickbacks and bungs in the English game. This article focuses on a payment made during Harry Rednapp’s time at Southampton.
Nick Harris has some more background on the player at the centre of the Southampton investigation.
Nick Szczepanik describes Portsmouth central defender Linvoy Primus’ journey from the bottom to the top. Primus is one of these players that you would mark down as making the absolute most of the talent he has been given. Any other players in the Premiership that you think might fit the bill?
Natasha Woods writes about Queen’s Park, a team that remains dedicated to playing for the enjoyment of the game without consideration of money.
And finally a few random thoughts on the Manchester United and Arsenal game.
Adebayor’s goal – and Ronaldo’s grotesque error – may have won the game for the Gunners, but Jens Lehmann’s save from Solksjaer just seconds later, certainly saved the full points for Arsenal.
John Djourou and Kolo Toure were outstanding at the heart of the Arsenal defense.
Wenger opted to play Adebayor as a lone striker – a role I thought he filled very well – and packed the midfield with five players. It freed Fabregas to push further forward and United never found a way to shut him down.
The 4-5-1formation allowed Arsenal to dominate possession for large parts of the game but I never sensed that SAF made any changes to counteract the extra Arsenal player in midfield. United seemed quite happy to allow Arsenal the ball perhaps believing that the Gunners would continue their poor performances in front of goal.
By the time Arsenal scored, it was too late to make any telling change. There just seemed to be too many United players who put in average-at-best performances. Despite his mistake, Ronaldo was the only United player to pose a consistent threat over the 90 minutes.
Why would you spend over $30M on Michael Carrick and leave him on the bench for a game that, if won, could have put a stake through the heart of your fiercest challenger over the last decade?
Tomas Rosicky is slowly but surely adapting to the Premiership and Arsenal’s style. He is going to be a Premiership star before the end of this season.
It must have warmed the hearts of Arsenal fans to see patista running at the united defense with power and conviction when he came on late in the game.
