BobbyMcMahon's Blog
by: BobbyMcMahon
Speakers' Corner #82
Apr 27, 2008 | 7:41PM | report this

Simon Barnes on thinking right….or wrong.

An article on Jimmy Gabriel – formerly of Dundee North End, Dundee, Everton, Southampton…….and Seattle Sounders. When Gabriel moved from Dundee to Everton nearly half a century ago he was at that time Scotland’s most expensive ever export to England. It is an indication of the quality of “half-backs” (anyone under 35 can look it up) available to Scotland around that time that Gabriel only received two Scottish caps.

When Saturday Comes has improved the website and this blog is on Rangers.

Jonathan Wilson profiles and compares Spurs’ new signing Luka Modric.

Patrick Barclay previews the second leg of the Manchester United – Barcelona at Old Trafford on Tuesday.

Simon Kuper on MLS.

Spotlight on West Bromwich Albion’s manager Tony Mowbray.

And finally a piece from Norman Hunter. A fine player but one that sometimes had a difficult time differentiating between a tackle and Grievous Bodily Harm. The famous Lee- Hunter bout from youtube.

113 Comments | Add a comment   categories: Jimmy Gabriel, Seattle Sounders, Everton, Dundee North End, Dundee, Southampton, Rangers, Luka Modric, Manchester United, Barcelona, Tony Mowbray, West Bromwich Albion, Norman Hunter, Francis Lee, Leeds United, Manchester City
 
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total comments: 113      Page 1 of 3     1 2 3 Next > 
foolishmoose
Apr 27, 2008
8:01 PM
Bobby, I have a tough one for you. Since the majority of my tv time is spent watching FSC, Setanta, GOL and ESPN Soccer programing, and with to my knowledge only ESPN carrying HD, but the minimum amount of soccer programing, my question is, do you have any inside info on when FSC may go HD?

Thanks

Sleeper000
Apr 27, 2008
8:27 PM
Bobby,that's an interesting article on Modric. He really does look like Cryuff and he wears nr. 14.
As much as I agree with you on The Sun's reliabilty to produce accurate reports, I find it rather interesting that they were actually right about Modric on this one. Not only that but they were first to report on the trasnfer.

Last edited by Sleeper000 on April 27th at 8:28 PM.

JayAlves
Apr 27, 2008
8:52 PM
Its going to be a interesting transfer season. Kudos to Spurs for firing the first shot and setting the tone as the season isn't even over and teams are going to have to line up their targets quicker or be left in the cold.

Ron_W
Apr 27, 2008
9:02 PM
I was a fan of Jimmy Gabriel when he played on Everton's championship teams. Funny to read an article about him in a Seattle newspaper. I don't know what MLS coverage is like in the rest of the country but here in the Bay Area it's pathetic. For example, in last Sunday's paper the Quakes "match report" was an abbrievated AP wire story on page 4 of the Sports section. Probably more coverage in the San Jose Mercury paper but still they're supposed to be the Bay Area team.

Bobby, question for you ... next year I believe they're increasing the number of substitutes who can suit up in the EPL... what effect do you think it will have on the games(if any, besides being better for the big spending/squad teams)?

Ursusarctos
Apr 27, 2008
9:23 PM
craigy:

Did you read Barnes' "thinking" article linked by Bobby, particularly re Ronaldo's CL PK miss?

The analysis is a bit thin, but it sounds as if Barnes is taking a similar view to the one we discussed a while back:

In a classic Nash equilibrium situation like a PK, unilaterally changing one's strategy (i.e., without regard to the opponent's strategy) cannot result in a better outcome (since the players' strategies are in equilibrium, stepping outside that balance is sub-optimal).

Barnes speaks of "thinking wrong"-- that is, defective decision-making. In the case of the United-Barca match, Barnes says Ronaldo was "thinking wrong" by "showboating"-- his behaviour had no connection to what the Barca keeper was doing, and was not compatible with maximizing his chance of scoring.

So Barnes' concept of "thinking wrong" appears to encompass the Nash equilibrium prediction of not offering any chance of a better outcome. In this case, Ronaldo unilaterally changed his strategy in an equilibrium situation, due to the irrational desire to "showboat"-- with the result that his approach did not maximize the chance of the best outcome.

(Also, since PK outcomes are the simplest form of dependant variable-- there are only two possible values, score or not-- not improving one's chances by changing strategy can really mean increasing the risk of the other, worse result.)

What do you think?

Ursusarctos
Apr 27, 2008
9:37 PM
gorn:

"My buddies and I hedge all the time, esp. for boxing matches. Sometimes we'll take the other side against each other just for spite. (c:"

That doesn't sound like hedging-- it sounds similar to the guy who puts money on every number of the roulette wheel, in order to "cover all the bases" ... your aggregate position is guaranteed to lose by the amount of the house/ bookie cut.

Of course, that doesn't stop one of you from taking the winning side ... and then having to buy the losers' drinks all night ... (is that the hedge you meant?!)


"Where in PQ are ye?"

Montreal.

Ursusarctos
Apr 27, 2008
9:46 PM
LGB:

"Verbal diarrhea?"

Yep. Lots of empty words, but still no facts to support your positions ...


"... an essay writer."

I'm sorry if you find my posts too long and involved to understand.

Me do easy posts LGB. That ok?


"hypocrite ... Dude seriously just stop."

Remember your attack on my "bluff" joke to gorn? I was completely ignoring you, but you couldn't leave well enough alone. And now you tell me to stop.

So ... what exactly were you saying about hypocrisy ...?


"you can go on believing that you are smart and I won't cut you down anymore."

Poor thing-- if you need juvenile insults and delusions of adequacy to feel good about yourself, go ahead and believe whatever you want. Everything will be alright.

gregz
Apr 27, 2008
11:21 PM
1. Bobby, what do you think of Fernando Gago? In recent weeks he has been putting on some remarkable performances for Real Madrid
2.Lots have been said about Hatem Ben Arfa maybe going to Arsenal. If it were to happen do U think he woud make it? I'm thinking he is a bit light weight and every summer Arsenal's midfield players get smaller.

Thierry_Henry
Apr 27, 2008
11:56 PM
Hey Bobby.

I don't know if you watched liverpool v. bermingham on the weekend. But the 2nd Bermingham goal should never have counted.

Jahidi was in between the Wall and the goal keeper wanting to make it difficult for the keeper to view where the ball is headed. In that case i think he was interfering with play, even if the free kick went right in. therefore he was offside. what's your take on it.

RINGO
Apr 28, 2008
4:46 AM
After the post-match activities at Stamford Bridge on Saturday I think it only fair that both Manchester United and the Chelsea groundstaff each be docked a point.

LetsGoBuffalo
Apr 28, 2008
6:06 AM
Gregz-I know you asked Bobby but I think Gago is going to be a great player for club and country. If Mourinho comes in I think he would flourish with him there.

Ursus-Again I implore you to stop. The comment of "delusions of adequacy" towards me? Really? Weren't you the one who was just talking about credibility here?

The more you talk, the more of a hole you dig yourself. Let it go.

Last edited by LetsGoBuffalo on April 28th at 6:07 AM.

wiscoleeds
Apr 28, 2008
7:46 AM
Thanks for finally working Leeds into your column. Norman was one of the best defenders to ever play the game.
Leeds are coming back...the "big four" should start worrying now.
Cheers
Wiscoleeds

redfan4ever
Apr 28, 2008
8:02 AM
Ursus: you mean Ronny changed his mind in mid-stride and missed? You sure know how to fill up a page with words mate. Sorry if this is too crude a precis.

Ringo: RA could take the ground staff out and buy them lunch! They did a better job at riling the mancs than Drogba and the first 11 did.
Did you see the rumour that said Rafa has compiled a video of Drogba's diving, to prime his defenders before tomorrows game? Be interesting to see how many dives, or other forms of gamesmanship, are committed by both sides during the match.

Bobby: as the season draws to a close and we all reflect on what has been, I was a wondering what for you have been the best, say top three, highlights of season from the various leagues (not cups) you watch around the world?

Norman Hunter was related to Ron Harris and Tommy Smith in some weird way was he not?
I remember that Peter Lorimer had something of a shot on him more than I remember Norman Hunter. I always disliked Don Revie but that aside I hope Leeds make it back as I do feel they got a double whammy last season.

Last edited by redfan4ever on April 28th at 8:08 AM.

aldoray
Apr 28, 2008
8:10 AM
I have a lot of respect for alex ferguson, but his comments after the chelsea game were absolute rubbish, this guy obviously thinks that no calls should be made against his team no matter how obvious it is, after every loss he blames the officials that is the sign of a poor loser. one of his statemnts was "how can the ref call a penalty in such a big game like that" r u kidding? is he saying that no penalties r supposed to be called in big games? in that case lets just get rid of the refs then. Absolute rubbish, and to me he came off as a total wanker

Last edited by aldoray on April 28th at 8:25 AM.

Venti_vidi_vici
Apr 28, 2008
9:18 AM
Aldo:
I agree with you about Sir Alex.
Every single time I listen to him talk to the press, I wonder whether he really believes the #### he says, or he’s just playing games with people. I would guess the latter, but I’m not sure, because sometimes his statements are outright absurd.

jahmikes
Apr 28, 2008
9:36 AM
--Bobby couple of questions

1. I think Arsenal's main weak spot is defense and have my opinions, can you give an analysis of our starting defenders and the bench ones, mine is we have a good starting 4 but on the bench we look awful spart from Traore who was under utilized.

2. Do you think the recall of Vela will become Wenger's answer to his wing problems?, I see him and Walcott becoming our version of Nani and Ronaldo.

3. I felt that Torres should have recieved player of the year due to the many external and internal challenges he faced in his season. Ronaldo's ability is without question but being in a stable team made it much easier for him to shine, wouldnt you agree?

4. Whats your verdict for tomorrow?,I think Ferguson is playing a risky game. He used similar tactics against Roma in the semi's and was able to go through because Roma had no real strike force up front to capitalize on their attacks, Barcalona is a team built to score goals, and if Ferguson plays an open game they will score, if he plays defense it will be a stale mate with Barca going through.

Last edited by jahmikes on April 28th at 9:44 AM.

Thierry_Henry
Apr 28, 2008
9:40 AM
Well, if wenger complains about unfair pk, at Liverpool in the CL league, at Man. utd and at Bermingham, people say that he is whining.

The pk they gave to utd vs arsenal was even less obvious that the one they gave chelsea vs. united.

Gallas has his arms down. the ball just hits him. nothing he could do. but Carrick had his arms up.

But when SAF is saying stuff like that, he is just trying to put pressure on the ref. that's about it.

Thierry_Henry
Apr 28, 2008
10:01 AM
Quite frankly, i think chelsea ground keepers should get a 5 games suspension because they started the confrotation, and utd players should receive a 2 games suspension because they got involved.

LetsGoBuffalo
Apr 28, 2008
10:25 AM
Bobby-1. Which team(in any top league) has been the most disappointing this season?

2. Do you believe Mourinho will end up in Barca, Madrid or Milan(blue or red)?

3. What do you make of Ballack and Drogba's on-the-field spat? Not much has been made of it because of United's antics and, of course, Chelsea won but is this kind of competitive edge what you need in a game like this, especially at such a crucial time?

4. What do you make of seedings in tournaments such as World Cup, Euro Championships and Euro Cup? Worth it or worthless?

5. How many goals do you see Liverpool needing to score at the Bridge for them to progress? How many for Barca at OT?

6. Final question: Why in the world is the PFA player of the year award handed out before the season is over?

MasMaz
Apr 28, 2008
11:56 AM
Why should players get suspensions for things happening way after the match? Why are Chelsea stewards anywhere near the Utd players after the stadium is empty?

These Chelsea stewards should be fired. What are they doing getting involved with the other team, that is not part of their job.

redfan4ever
Apr 28, 2008
12:32 PM
I see SAF is defending his rotation policy today. Stark con-trast to the start of the season.

LGB acording to the D.I.C rumour machine, JM will be managing us when they buy the club of the Hick and Gillett. Perhaps Miss Stavely fancies him?

Derby have scored against Arsenal, is there a shock on the cards???

Last edited by redfan4ever on April 28th at 12:36 PM.

ZUCO2
Apr 28, 2008
12:38 PM
Interesting news : Spain is making a bid to host the 2018 world cup.

leche010
Apr 28, 2008
12:43 PM
LGB- I know I'm not Bobby, so I'll let him answer your questions as well... But I figured why not throw my opinions out there...

1. Barcelona, easy
2. Milan... Most likely Red
3. Mourinho built Chelsea by bringing in the best players instead of the right ones, which is why they've underachieved as to their expectations thus far... The farther this goes, the more of a realization this is becoming, I think sooner rather than later you'll see some of these pieces heading out the door.
4. Against it, if you're gonna make a tournament with a random draw, might as well just make it completely random.
5. I think 1 will earn Liverpool extra time and possibly another shootout... 2 should see them through. Barca are gonna need 2 to match United, and win on away goals
6. Who knows?

leche010
Apr 28, 2008
12:50 PM
Very exciting weekend ahead in the Premiership...

With United and Chelsea now tied on points at the top of the table, United hosting West Ham, and Chelsea going to St. James Park are both huge.

Even more exciting is the relegation battle...

18th place Birmingham, 1 point from safety goes to 19th place Fulham, 3 points from safety. Don't really think much else is needed to know how huge this game is for both teams

17th place Reading, 1 point from the drop zone, host Spurs

16th place Bolton, 1 point from the drop zone, host now guaranteed to remain in the EPL next season Sunderland

Boro, 3 points from guaranteed safety host Portsmouth, Wigan, 2 points from guaranteed saftey, go to Villa...

With Birmingham hosting Blackburn, Bolton going to Chelsea, Reading going to Derby, Boro hosting Man City, Fulham going to Pompey, and Wigan hosting United, a lot could be determined this weekend.

Venti_vidi_vici
Apr 28, 2008
12:51 PM
The stewards were forced to intervene to break up the altrecation between the Man U subs and the grounds crew, who apparently had asked the players to move to another part of the pitch because they needed to work in the area where they were warming down. The Man Utd players ignored the request, and at some point the exchange got a bit out of hand. Shame on both sides, but nothing much will come of it except a whole lot of sensationalized press coverage. .. in England? get outta here!? No, really!

redfan4ever
Apr 28, 2008
12:52 PM
Liverpool must score twice as Chelsea are likely to get at least one so it will hinge on the away goals. I think both sides will want to avoid penalties.

Last edited by redfan4ever on April 28th at 12:53 PM.

jahmikes
Apr 28, 2008
12:53 PM
Bobby--How many goals has Arsenal conceded from set plays? and whats their rank in this statistic?, thanks. How did Webster get hia job at FSC? My dog is a better analyser than him " big personality."

JayAlves
Apr 28, 2008
1:15 PM
2-1 right now. Come on at least finish the season with some pride and blow out Derby or at least hit the net!

aldoray
Apr 28, 2008
1:21 PM
redfan4ever

I hate to say it but the only way we go through on wednesday is if it goes to penalties we will not outscore chelsea at the bridge its not going to happen. But we can get the job done

redfan4ever
Apr 28, 2008
1:29 PM
Aldo: I saw Dalgleish and co demolish chelsea several times at the bridge pre BPL so history tells us it has been done and I agree with Verbal, we are due a win at their place. With Gerrard and Torres rested and Pennant seemingly on fire I wonder if Babel will go down the left, Pennant the right with Gerrard and Torres up the slot backed by Masc and (Alonso or Leiva).
Certainly an option, but I do not see Rafa leaving Kuyt on the bench. We shall see at any rate!

Last edited by redfan4ever on April 28th at 1:30 PM.

aldoray
Apr 28, 2008
1:33 PM
I was litening to WSD today and steven said he read an article from ruud gullit where he said that they(galaxy) were supposed to play a reserve game and 2 players were out b4 it so in order to fill their spot they had to call people off of their regular jobs to come play the game. That right there is why i say MLS is a poor league until things like this change it will always be poor. and i dont care who says that i dont watch the league enough to comment, its these stuff that make the league f.ucked there is no way the league can be good or get better, the root of their problems are the salary cap. and while they r at it stop playing your games on those damned NFL lines.

Last edited by aldoray on April 28th at 1:41 PM.

ReggaeGunner
Apr 28, 2008
1:35 PM
Who's been the best RB for the 07/08 season throughout Europe? I've seen quite a lot of matches still trying to come to a final conclusion.

Last edited by ReggaeGunner on April 28th at 1:39 PM.

aldoray
Apr 28, 2008
1:38 PM
redfan4ever

U r right about the dalgliesh era but remember those days were pre Mourinho. He has embedded in this chelsea team a winning formula at home its so deep in them that they still win there when he is gone(has absolutely nothing to do with grant) I really dont think we r going to go their and break their record so as i said i think we will have to either draw 2-2 or take it to penalties

MasMaz
Apr 28, 2008
1:44 PM
RG- gotta be Sergio Ramos.

aldoray
Apr 28, 2008
1:48 PM
reggaegunner

the best RB plays for u guys--Bacary Sagna absolute quality

MasMaz
Apr 28, 2008
1:56 PM
Aldo- no one says you can't have an opinion about the MLS, it is just not very deep or well thought out. I enjoy the MLS at certain times. Saturday night at the Home Depot Center was great. Klejstan was getting into with the Galaxy fansafter scoring a great goal. The Chivas fans were all over Beckham. Good atmosphere. Not electric but fun. Nearly packed, very few empty seats. 7 goals was nice.

Landon is the fastest dude on the pitch by a mile. I was very impressed with Lando's pace.

Thierry_Henry
Apr 28, 2008
2:00 PM
I would say Patrice Evra, best full back for my money. yet again, we haven't been watching too much of the Spanish, Italian and French league. so, we are biased.

Thierry_Henry
Apr 28, 2008
2:03 PM
In sports news, Arsenal closed on the title chase, by thrashing derby count 6-2. the win puts Arsenal just 4 points behind Manchester Utd and Chelsea who played on the weekend.

aldoray
Apr 28, 2008
2:09 PM
thierry Henry

I think the argument was best RB, and arsenal could still win the title if Man u and Chelsea draw their remainig games and the gooners win. Not likely at all but possible


MasMaz

A few exciting games do not make a good league(and they all seem to be with the galaxy). If u have fundamental problems like salary caps that r way to low it will soak through the whole league and spread like a cancer. I mean come on, Having to pull people off of their everyday jobs to come play a game is absolutely pitiful, none of those players would be match fit so therefore that automatically means a poor game of long balls up the park. And dont get me started on the NFL lines that in itself is enough to class this league as mickey mouse standard. there is no excuse for that at all. until those two problems r solved i am not intrested, but then again who the hell am I

Last edited by aldoray on April 28th at 2:10 PM.

MasMaz
Apr 28, 2008
2:21 PM
The thing is I agree w/you Aldo, but why be negative? It is better than nothing.

I will say tix should be cheaper for that shiite.

BobbyMcMahon
Apr 28, 2008
3:03 PM
Aldoray - And what is being two men short for a reserve game got to do with anything?

LetsGoBuffalo
Apr 28, 2008
3:34 PM
RF-Yeah I've heard the rumours. Your reasoning actually makes sense...maybe she does???

Leche-Thanks for the answers!

Venti_vidi_vici
Apr 28, 2008
3:42 PM
Bobby:
How is the Larsson freekick against Liverpool on Saturday not offside? What on earth are the ref and the linesman doing? If that's not offside then teams would do that on every direct freekick, and the keeper could put a player guarding either post on direct free kicks. Clear offside, or am I missing something?

BobbyMcMahon
Apr 28, 2008
3:48 PM
Venti-vidi-vici - It was not offside - watch the FSR tonight to find out why.

ZUCO2
Apr 28, 2008
4:10 PM
I don`t know if Larsson's goal was offside or not and I don`t really care, no offense.

What I care about is the fact that referees do way to many mistakes nowadays (offside goals being allowed, penalties given when there is no contact, too many added time being given etc.) FIFA and UEFA seriously need to keep on working to improve this critical situation.

redfan4ever
Apr 28, 2008
4:11 PM
Gamesmanship like Eadie's is a real good reason for making offside offside again. The whole offside rule is a joke and when it allows players deemed not interfering with play, to distract or obstruct goal keepers then the law needs revising.

Bobby: if Chelsea fork out 55 million for Kaka, who would you see them using as a holding midfielder?
Also, do you think they would be able keep Lampard and Ballack Happy if Kaka arrives?
I can well see RA going for Kaka as he pursues a CL title at any cost.
Do you think Drogba is on the way out this summer especially after his tempremental attitude with Ballack over a free kick and his general demeaner against the Mancs last weekend? I do not think he is happy at all.

Last edited by redfan4ever on April 28th at 4:25 PM.

LetsGoBuffalo
Apr 28, 2008
4:21 PM
I like the offside rule that is going on right now. If we go back to the other way then we'll get goals like Roy Keane's getting ruled out in the 99 FA Cup semifinal.

Keep the rule the same as it is now. I like the fact that goalies can be "distracted". They are protected way too much as it is.

WeNeedMoreFreidel
Apr 28, 2008
4:53 PM
This is such an obscure question... relating to the comments and complaints about referees, (mainly offside rules by others) and I don't disagree that bad calls are made but...

I think that the amount of diving that goes on in the game makes it very difficult for refs who have to be watching so many elements at once. How do players like Cristiano Ronaldo expect a referee to call a foul, when he appears to dive on at least 50% of tackles attempted on him?

Another note: Expectedly players are upset with a call because of the emotion, adrenaline, and what not but the simple fact is that the referee is not going to have some revelation that he missed a call and decide to overturn it because a player told him so, and this applies to any sport. (one of the reasons I have little respect for Kobe Bryant, "I missed a shot so I'll yell at the ref)

I'm curious if anyone knows, and I doubt its been documented, who was the first really big "diver" to encourage this nonsense that ruins the beautiful game? Or, for opinion, who is the biggest diver currently playing? My vote goes to Luca Toni.

Finally, I believe that the refs should give way more yellow cards for diving (cue Italian league) and dissent. (cue Mascherano)

I would love to hear your opinions.

Last edited by WeNeedMoreFreidel on April 28th at 4:54 PM.

verbal97
Apr 28, 2008
7:02 PM
uh oh Friedal...pandora's box on that one. I think you'll find that players of ALL nationalities dive. Sure, Italians and Latin Americans do more (i know the latter from personal experience), but they all do it.

Re: Jaidi. Don't really care what the current law is, that is completely bush league. I'd be ashamed a la Charlie from Mighty Ducks (underrated Disney movie) if a coach asked me to do it. Speaking of hockey, the NHL just specified a similar infraction after #### Sean Avery did it to the Devils.

albertagooner
Apr 28, 2008
7:56 PM
The PFA team of the season was

GK -- James
RB -- Sagna
CB -- Ferdinand
CB -- Vidic
LB -- Clichy
RM -- Gerrard
CM -- Fabregas
AM -- Cristiano Ronaldo
LM -- Ashley Young
S -- Torres
S -- Adebayor

Who was your team of the season?

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ABOUT ME


BobbyMcMahon
I am the soccer analyst for the Fox Soccer Report and appear twice a week - every Monday and Friday at 10:00 EST. I have also been a regular contributor to the Fox Soccer Channel website since the summer of 2004. Over the last twenty years I have contributed to various radio and television programs throughout North America as well writing about the game for newspapers, magazines and websites. Thank you to all who take time to visit this blog and especially to those of you who post your comments and thoughts. PS - If you have questions please post them on the regular Monday blog. I am unable to answer e mails posted to the inbox on this site. And one more thing. If you have questions or complaints or compliments about programming please contact Fox Soccer Channel or Fox Sports World Canada directly. I have no control over what the stations televise.
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