I can only guess that the timing of this story (and the others being carried in other papers) and the Champions League semi-final is just a coincidence.
Here is one for craigy_f. After his posts over the last couple of weeks I now know what the “f” stands for.
An interesting article on the much-traveled Christian Vieri.
Simon Kuper with a bit of a different look at Barcelona.
"... that Times drivel ... does not warrant another look or comment by anyone with a life.""
True.
But I have no life ...
... With respect, you miss the point. The Torres sale story was drivel-- but not everyone was clear about that, if questions on various boards and comments after news articles are an indication.
For the sake of any LFC fans here worried that the story might have some truth to it, there was value in systematically debunking it.
Well, they were talking about a supporter-owned club-- never said whose supporters ...
Further to the article linked by Bobby on the latest D.I.C. LFC buyout developments (and another I read earlier with more detail: YANKS GOING HOME - GILLETT CUTS A DEAL - Sunday Express, 19/4/08)-- I think it may have one clear error, when it says: "Though the prospect of D.I.C part-ownership is now looming, their long-awaited involvement in the club will not bring an end to Liverpool's problems since they will be stuck with Hicks for the time being at least."
I'll explain ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 20th at 9:49 PM.
The scenario set out in these articles is the most potentially realistic yet-- which is not to say events will happen exactly as outlined, only that in theory they could:
The key points are:
The valuation of Gillett's 50% share of the club means a significant annualized ROI, but represents less than the £500m valuation for the club as a whole previously rejected by D.I.C;
The expiry of the partnership pre-emptive rights in late May allows Gillett to sell his interest directly to D.I.C.;
And the kicker, making the strategy worthwhile for D.I.C. (who will only accept a controlling interest in the club):
Ownership money will be used to finance the new stadium, to be raised by a new share issue. In order for Hicks to maintain his 50% ownership interest, he would have to pony up a lot of money to buy a proportionate share of the new issue (as is his right)-- which D.I.C. bets he could not do, unlike them.
Result-- D.I.C. end up majority owners. So long as Moores and Parry side with such a plan, D.I.C. has the majority Board votes (4 : 2) to carry it out.
Given this potential scenario, the best bet for Hicks would be to sell out as soon as a Gillett sale looks to be completed-- exactly what D.I.C. expects to accomplish by publicizing their intended plans:
Many see the CL in the last few years as a tale of PL dominance. It's hardly that in the UEFA Cup. How to you explain the difference in the two comps for PL teams (or other leagues) in the last three odd years.
Do you like the playoffs?
The last noise the Liverpool SUpporters Who Want To Buy Liverpool made was about having the clout to actually have a dialogue with Hillette and Gicks. Apparently they wanted to talk ' intentions'. Will this happen?
Will Ince be given a bigger club or stick with much moved Wombledon?
Tevez's stock must have gone up with that late goal at Blackburn?
Gimme your top five footballing flops this weekend, please.
What; off what goes on on the pitch; gets your goat when watching football.
Who will finish fifth? (In the PL, Serie A and La Liga)
Scottish Managers seem to do well darn sarf, why do you think that is?
Can you do that coins on the elbow trick?
WILSON
Good article - what are the splits for PL prize money this year (if I recall correctly it was maybe 900000GBP difference between each place)
VIERI
Jeremy Paxman should have done an interview instead of that lame excuse for an article.
CHELSEA $ GERRARD
A simple attempt at a mindf_uck! Israeli style!
PAXMAN
The beast will be on BBC America on Friday getting Paxmanlike into the US circuit. Be nice if his talents could be directed once in a while to football.
SWEARING / CUSSING / BAD-MOUTHING / OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT
On the one hand it's just part of the language and nothing special.
On the other
... Otherwise, Hicks would see the value of his illiquid LFC interest heavily discounted-- as a potential minority interest, he loses the leverage that Gillett would get as first seller, nor is there a market for his shares from third party investors willing to buy minority stakes in the club (due to share transfer restrictions resulting from the Duo taking LFC private in June, 2007).
In effect, then, the Duo's tenure at Anfield is a house of cards-- one hint of a successful sale by a partner and the whole thing will likely collapse with breathtaking speed, because the logic of the situation requires it.
So once the endgame starts, I don't think a D.I.C. buyer will end up stuck with Hicks at all.
Of course, if stubborn egotism trumps rational decision-making, all bets are off-- but despite appearances, Hicks' behaviour has been all about maximizing value as he sees it. No reason to think otherwise until the evidence requires it ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 20th at 9:52 PM.
CONT...
it's used as a tool for emphasis.
It has to be both or it's just a bad word(s)
F_uck is held in high regard due it's versatility.
C_unt is frankly underused.
Never understood what the yanks have against meatballs? or wood?
Despite what Sir David says it is (in some cases) the easy way to insult/get your point across; it's short and direct as well as universal...but then if you get to creative some people don't know what you are on about.
Isn't freedom of speech really just a tool to make everyone a tad more responsible in what they type or say?
GOODNIGHT AND FU_CK YOU VERY MUCH!
URSUS
URSUS
Ta - I did think it was a tad sensationalist.
[...]
RF
Give a dog a bone 'n all that :)"
Case study in "playing both sides", eh, craigy?!
Just beacuse I'm foul-mouthed doesn't mean I'm stoopid! :)
What's your take on Gerrard to Chelsea.
Will Torres be as effective next season or will the defenders of the PL be a bit more aware of how to play him?
Last edited by craigy_f on April 20th at 10:01 PM.
craigy:
- Torres' improvement will counter-balance the PL's adjustment to him. As long as the team improves (from within or without), I expect the same *kind* of season. Mebbe not 33-ish, but not 15 either. Also, FT has 9 assists this season, and whether you dismiss that stat or not, it indicates that he's not afraid to give the ball to players in better positions. So if his goal total goes down, I would expect his assist stat to go up. YMMV
- SG is going nowhere. If he bolts this summer, it'll only be because RB left & LFC replaces him w/a Avram clone and/or the team doesn't do anything positive transfer-wise. If/when SG leaves, it won't be anywhere in the PL
Ursus: What makes you think there is a 1st refusal clause? I hear it bandied aboot, but Gillett has been silent on it, and Hicks' assertions consistently refuted. I've not seen anything regarding that in concrete terms, so I'm not at liberty to even speculate on it. Have you read/seen something you consider "stone cold" reliable?
Mr. McMahon:
- Your opinion on whether Fake Ronaldo's PK technique is caution-worthy/unsporting? Seems to me that it's not much, if at all, different than if he just took a shorter run-up. Is there another line of thinking?
- What sources do you use to do yer research (ie: top away goal scorer in BPL in 07-08, etc.)? Any links appreciated!
- By how many goals will LFC beat Chelsea in both legs of the CL semi?
- There appears to be a few quality strikers available this summer (Berbatov, Huntelaar, Villa, Henry, Crouch & hell even Ronaldinho). Do you think this will create a bit of a market correction in transfer prices? Or will this be the priciest market in years? I know you don't like to speculate on things like specific transfers, just wondering yer general feeling on what you anticipate happening, especially w/so many top teams rumoured to be changing managers....
- Do you think MLS needs a marquee team or 3 to stimulate rivalries/dynasties like the BPL has? Not advocating a class system exactly, but mebbe more along the lines of brand development & recognition. Beckham helps, but if his team is pants, it doesn't help MLS. Further, MLS seems not yet able to simply throw $ at players to solve the problem like NASL did. Mebbe MLS would be served by having more than one team in a big city like NY to create a derby. Thoughts?
- Dis/agree that there are at most 3 Canadian cities than can support an MLS team?
GORN
Peter will read this blog and be very chuffed to be in such illustrious company. And of course there's Eto'o, Amauri & MO.
YAK
02/03 12
03/04 19
04/05 17
05/06 19
06/07 16
07/08 19 with three to go
What does that tell you about the Yak and this season?
The managerial merrygoround has to stop before the cf merrygoround starts - doesn't it?
checkout ferando9torres - such a lovefest! :)
ASSISTS
Poppycock! Meaningless drivel mon capitan!
Although the Fernando9Torres (fernistas) do descrobe one of his key attributes as selflessness! (his prime attribute is pace)
When WSD had Graham Poll on last week they talked about the stutter step PK issue and he said it was completely fine. So much so that going into WC2006 FIFA directly told the refs it was. He compared a PK to a FK saying you can have guys run over a FK and so on so a PK is no different in the creativity you can use. He was actually a surprisingly good guest and very interesting, definitely changed my opinion of him of that ref who cant count his cards.
craigy:
- Gudjohnsen & Martins are *far* more likely to move IMO. I've heard NU is going to throw the bank at MO, and we all know that's what he plays for.
- Yak: It tells me he plays every other season, and you can expect a drop off in 08-09! Pc: But then again, goals & assists stats are rubbish, so it's an irrelevant point, n'est-ce pas? Cannye have it both ways, mon ami!
- Managers before strikers: Depends on the player, no? I doubt any manager not named Rijkaard would dislike walking into a team with Ronaldinho in it. And we all know Bobby would "REALLY LUV IT" if he could manage Crouch-y....
Jay: Heard the same interview, and you'll of course remember craigy and I discussing him and his points in that interview a few days ago.......
Notice my question is different than Poll's point. I know Poll's opinion - I want Bobby's (as well as anything Bobby might add to the discussion). Is that OK? I mean, that's what Speaker's Corner is for, right? )c<
Totally missed you and Craigy talking about it. Doubt Bobby will add much TBH, its really a minute issue in the game thats been around for awhile.
Figo did it much before Ronaldo did it and maybe where he picked it up from. Props to any player who can do it properly even as it adds a degree of difficulty to the shot. Some players cant even get their run up down without adding the twist of slowing/stopping into the mix.
"What makes you think there is a 1st refusal clause? ... Have you read/seen something you consider "stone cold" reliable?"
You call my bluff!
I've not "seen" anything (such as an LFC shareholder agreement)-- and the specific legally-enforceable text is the only thing I would consider '"stone cold" reliable'.
Having said that, there is circumstantial evidence that a partnership pre-emptive right is at play:
Hicks has said so in very direct, specific terms;
Gillett (through his mouthpieces) has not contradicted Hicks' assertion about the existence of a partner's pre-emptive right, only his interpretation of its effect;
Other sources who are presumably independent-- certainly not on Hicks' side, in any case-- have referred to it in specific terms (see the article I linked upthread);
continued ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 21st at 10:09 AM.
but most importantly-- the parties are acting as if one existed:
Given that Gillett has said he's done working with Hicks, even at the "cost" of selling out, and given an offer on the table from D.I.C. that they claim was acceptable to Gillett (without any denial from him)-- why hasn't he jumped yet, if he was free to do so? What would Gillett gain by waiting? All the risk appears to be on the downside-- too early CL exit, sub-4th PL finish, talk of Benitez leaving would all tend to reduce LFC's value. What might increase that value over time?
Hicks wants to avoid a new D.I.C. partner with much deeper pockets and the two Board swing votes on its side, by finding his own potential partners. Since he can't match D.I.C.'s financial muscle, and Gillett won't sell at a discount to him, why would Hicks think he has a chance to secure Gillett's shares? He must be hoping to draw out the process to the point that Gillett prefers to be rid of the problem at any cost, even selling to him-- which would only work if Gillett was forestalled from selling elsewhere in the interim.
"Should the Moscow [CL] final turn out to be an all-English affair this season, there will be plenty of talk about the Premier League being the best in the world. It isn't. Torres is right [that La Liga is tougher than the Premier League because matches are more competitive all the way down the league, and that English football is really all about the top four.]"
Yes. And it is too bad.
Bobby, do you agree with Wilson's (and Torres') analysis?
How would you rate Serie A? Does it resemble the PL, in terms of the quality being consistently concentrated among the top (6 or so?) teams, or is it more similar to Spain?
Leagues appear to tend to develop a quasi-permanent group of "haves", with the quality dropping off rapidly after-- Scotland's Old Firm and Portugal's Big Three are other examples.
Bobby, which major leagues would you consider to have the most turnover amongst the top group of teams, and the most competitive depth, over time (recent decades)-- and which the least? What factors might be responsible for differences between leagues?
Or does the competitive depth of leagues go in cycles, with England at the lower end of the scale and Spain at the higher at this point in time (and Scotland doing its own thing)? If so, will increasing financial rewards, such as CL prize money, tend to fix "elite" teams in place, or are there contrary factors that might help to promote intra-league competitiveness?
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 21st at 10:57 AM.
When I watch la liga, my impressions are that it's where arsenal should be playing. Every team actually comes out to play. Most players are intelligent. they can keep the ball, and pass it skillfully.
In the EPL, only Arsenal and may united would be able to compete in La Liga. I love watching La Liga replays more than I would watch the EPL replays.
Terry, my lad, off you go. Don't torture those sensitive eyes anymore on brutal British football.
I've always felt Ar5ena1 should take advantage of the Chunnel to transfer abroad and end Lyon's dominance of Ligue Un.
Jay: Vampire, not cannibal. What will you characterize 'Slappy' Hleb as? Flyswatter?
Gorn: Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver. That's it for MLS entries from Canada. In tha order, please. Everywhere else in Canada is either a village or too hockey/curling/CFL/centric. All three in many cases.
As part of the world club championship buildup, those three cities will have their clubs play a CONCACAF club series against one another this year, even though the latter two are USL sides. Top USL sides, mind you.
There Will Be Blood. This year, and every year they play one another. Gonna be mental, especially Toronto-Montreal. Can't wait.
GORN
Goals are traditional and time honoured ways of measuring thinbgs in football. Usually pretty easily measured as well.
Only assists are meaningless poppycock.
Good take on the transfer merrygoround - it would also depend on owners and whoever may or may not be director of football (or whatever that role is)
I'd take 12, 17 and 16 as a season where he doesn't play.
Just be sure that the bank doesn't land on his foot :P
POLL
I'd argue that a stutter step is different from merely taking a shorter run up. The stutter step is designed to decieve and a short run up is just short.
LEAGUE COMPETITIVENESS
The CL isn't the only measure of the strength of a league. Intra league competitivenss is entirely subjective. The games aren't played so the comparisons are moot.
Serie A compares quite favourably to the PL, three or four top teams with 4 or five on their coat tails, any season the rest of the bunch are capable of dropping into Serie B or pushing for UEFA.
One other similarity is the top teams playing the bigger teams, as in the PL often team Small's game plan is damage limitation from the whistle rather than a plan to win the game it's a plan not to lose the game. Inter V Cagliari is the same as Chelsea V Derby for example.
Style is where the major difference lies.
1) No three at the back in the PL, several in Serie A
2) A more controlled tempo to many games.
3) Difference in the nationality demographic
4) A touch more reliant on skill not power
5) A different way of officiating
6) Hot young players thrown into the mix more ofte
CONT...
7) Watch Serie A and the BPL for a season and it'll be obvious.
Whatever the opinions I would suggest that a certain style/ethos is developing through a number of teams in many European Leagues.
The style/ethos requires the mastery of the group stage (balancing not losing, keeping your squad fresh for the league, and doing the minimum required to qualify), then comes the spring games with the tactical nuances of two legged ties balanced with the maintenance of a league position.
Not only are those demands physical they are also mental and organizational.
A style or club ethic or 'factor X" is required. And in order to win both the League and the CL a club needs facto X is spa_des! (How many teams have won their league and the CL in the last 10 years?
The you'd look at the UEFA Cup and see that the pool of teams is much larger with much more varied situations; Although a similar series of challenges at similar times) Serie A could send AC Milan or even Napoli to the UEFA cup (or even Catania) and the FA could send the Sheep!
Juventus are actually in a prime position this season and have done remarkablly well; helped without the extra weight of CL or UEFA games. One only has to look at how rare it is to be promoted one year and win the league the next to see how well Juventus are doing (especially as they had a change in management)
Who did get promoted then won their legaue in England?
Over time the funds to buy the players to compete at the highjest levels of inter league competiton and domestic league will become WHAT!
Purely in terms
CONT...
Purely in terms of football it is best for these funds to be spread more than they are; investment in the game itself not individual clubs.
Purely in terms of business you wnat a stable marketable product, focusing cash on a select few will allow you to do that.
Can these two polarizing objectives be compromised? (That's part of Platini's job)
I think it's be hard. The PL was created with the threat of breaking away and now OWNS the FA. Had the FA called the PL's bluff in 1991 and offered a compromise then perhaps...they did't and the Scudamore's and Barwicks of this world have their way???
I've kinda wandered here URSUS a second opinion would be welcome, bear in mind I'm not really concerned with which league has the best 3 teams, I'm talking about the two leagues as wholes, the sum if their parts.
TT
What do you think. Or perhaps you are just a troll?
URSUS Can you pot up the method to creating links pls,
TH
I certainly disagree with your speculative, broad and partisan opinion and it's just as vaild as mine. "Most players are intelligent. they can keep the ball, and pass it skillfully" This statement, is "most" a subset of players from the games you have watched or a subset of players who have played in every la liga game this season?
Intelligence?
Isn't passing it accurately more desirable than passing it skilfully?
"Liverpool co-owner George Gillett has invited senior officials from Dubai International Capital to be his guests at Anfield on Tuesday for the Champions League semi-final showdown with Chelsea.
Although Gillett himself will not be able to attend the match because of illness, his party - including son Foster, a fellow director - will be there in force to welcome D.I.C's representatives.
...
It is believed that D.I.C's chief negotiator Amanda Staveley will be among Gillett's party, along with Liverpool fan and D.I.C chief executive Samir Al-Ansari."
As the story goes on to say: there could not be a clearer statement of intent on Gillett's part. The endgame approaches ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 21st at 2:17 PM.
Thank you for your thoughts on league competitiveness.
Like you, I don't care one bit for ranking leagues-- the whole "my league is better than your league" thing is stupid-- but more for the differences between them that help to define their unique identities.
You may find this hard to believe from a fan of the Red side of town, but I dislike the idea of a "Big Four". A PL where any of 5 or 6 teams could realistically start the year with title aspirations-- and 7 or 8 to get a CL spot-- would be a lot more interesting than the oligopoly we have now ... even if it would make LFC's job that much harder. Winning a CL spot when only four teams have a realistic shot over 38 games (with all due respect to the Blue side) is not much to celebrate ...
How did you get so interested in Serie A? Italian family, lived there, or just football interest?
To post links: <a href="Put the URL here between the quotes">This is the text that will be displayed</a>
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 21st at 2:51 PM.
SERIE A
In a roundabout way all three and going to Rome and Naples in the 80's. Seeing the fat cokehead in the flesh at the same time as watching Reid and Kendall et al. Football from a different planet.
To call it "better" would be wrong.
When it's non-violent the ultras are magnificent supporters as well.
Therein lies the trick. Balance between having a league open enough for good top down competition yet not too open such that any team has a realistic shot at the title.
Having Man U being a benchmark team in the PL is good. Everyone else has a target.
Business wise an NFL type model is best for generating vast ammounts of cash, that model would kill football with it's anti-competition stance.
From a blue perspective failing to get any meaningful results against the teams above us says lots about the league. If that gap can only be bridged by huge ammounts of cash we're fu_cked.
Great if your a CL team, not if you aren't.
Take a look around you on the blog though, who supports the other teams?
Barney the parrot, what a star! Can you imagine him on the FSR? Mind you he might well be better than Derek Taylor and a lot funnier!
It rained here today and ground works were suspended, so Ursus I had time to plough through your writings. No life old boy....why ever not??
Hick ups:
I totally agree with you that there is a pre purchase, partnership contract/agreement between the 'Hick' and Gillett. The unkown factor is the expiry date of that agreement.
The D.I.C invite is, I suspect, just another way of stirring the pot and will drive the Hick nuts in his cabin. Least ways I sincerely hope so. It will be mildly interesting to see if Miss Stavely makes the match and where she sits.
Magagerial security:
As for the reports on Rafa re his job security, I do think he is pretty well secure. The muck that is flying everytime the Hick opens his trap is not aimed at Rafa for now thankfully. In contrast I do think Grant will be promoted, but who would RA hire to replace him?? How much would it cost RA to buy out Ramos' contract for example?
CL Stuff:
I do think Rafa can bamboozle Grant but I am not so sure about SAF. There seems to be something about the Mancs that Liverpool cannot get around and I think it is mental. If, as I sincerely hope they do, Barcelona beat the Mancs, I think Liverpool can get number 6. If it is a Mancs vs LFC final then I reckon the Mancs will lift the cup. That said it is a cup match and a one off final on foreign soil in front of mostly neutral fans so may be there is hope. Thoughts anyone?
Last edited by redfan4ever on April 21st at 4:37 PM.
RF
Liverpool losing to Man U is harldy a mental thing, more of a one team being better than the other thing.
Your partisan appraisal is, well partisan.
Ignore the game at Anfield due to the dodgy pk, the last time you met (Feb) was a 0-0 draw. Two teams with little to choose between them.
Chelsea are hard to beat
Liverpool are rediscovering some of their Anfield swagger
Each team has good and bad points.
Each manager has shown skill and panache alongside less than effective tactical and personell changes.
This time around expect both teams to field beefy teams (not as in the League Cup)
Chelsea's GK and D have the edge on yours.
Midfield is different - although both have strong individuals - and flaws.
Up front Fern has the edge with one goal agaisnt Chelsea.
My take on the other Semi final is less detailed; whover can kill the home leg off with the greatest number of goals will win. Barcelona may need to score 3 or four @ home to win this tie.
I do hope the games are good and decided by the players and not the men in the middle.
Predictions - well as I'm usually shiite at that I'll go for a home win and an away draw.
Craigy: so explain your take on how Ged managed to beat SAF with what was much less of an LFC team than now?
Utd then were a much stronger side than LFC 5 years ago. I believe the gap between the sides has closed since Rafa came and yet we have failed to get results against Utd, far more than the other two.
Neither head nor heart were in the LFC players during the last part of the last match against Utd, yet it came at a time when we were winning games and is the only real glitch in the last 2 months to my way of thinking. This is why I say it is a mind set issue.
When your lot took Utd on there was more passion on view than our lot demonstrated.
Perhaps it is Rafa, perhaps the gulf between CB's is really vast? Rafa maybe but not the players.
Amazing how smart a bird brain can be though eh lol? I wonder what Barney would say?
RON_W
?
Is that a bluekipper photo?
I have a good laugh at La Mierda from time to time :)
RF
You are confusing the team over the season v the team on the day.
"During the last part of the last match against Utd"
by then they had been playing with 10 men for a fair time and were already down one nil.
More importantly than a Liverpudlian inability to beat the mancs what about a CL SF tomorrow.
Drogba possibly out gives you an edge?
No Essien certainly does.
Grant doesn't get the plaudits he has earned because he's ugly, scruffy and ill-mannered and he suffers in comparison to Setanta's new star!
EVERYBODY!!!!!!
Predicted a Chelsea collapse yet here they are still in with a shout at two trophys.
What league is the best? Well if you want to look at it on how many teams are left in the competition thats always a good way! Of course, we can look at it on a team-by-team comparison:
Rangers-Going to be Scottish Champs. Played in the Champions League this season and will next season too.
Fiorentina-Legit Uefa Cup team.
Zenit-Russian Champs. Will be playing in the Champs League next season.
Bayern Munich-German Champs. Didn't play in the Champions League, but like Sevilla last year, should be in the Champions League.
So one legit Uefa Cup team? Now lets look at English teams and who they got knocked out by:
Blackburn-3rd Round by Larissa. Not good.
Bolton-Got knocked out by a team that was in the Champions League this season and played the second leg(which ultimately lost them the tie)with a weakened side because they are in a relegation battle.
Everton-Lost on penalties to the only legit Uefa Cup team that could be on its way to the Champions League. Could've gone either way.
Tottenham-Lost on penalties to the Dutch Champions and a team that played and will again play next season in the Champions League.
Are you #### kidding me? Of course Torres says Spain is the best, he's #### Spanish ####. Its kind of like Grant saying Gerrard is the best in Europe...
The statistics speak for themselves, there is one team that played poor against LEVEL competition.
So I say missing profits(ie transfers and how they are applied), you say there is a "1st refusal clause"? Hypocrisy at its best.
Don't underestimate Chelsea, the 2nd Leg is at the Bridge. Liverpool are the hot team but I'm sticking with my Man Utd vs Chelsea prediction for the final. United vs Barce could be a classic if we get some Messi magic.
Craigy, that gif is ubiquitous, omnipresent ... It was on the People's Forum
Best line from Old Firm column was one of the comments from Gaddaboot:
'#4, if you're going to spout nonsense, at least employ some punctuation, so that the rest of us know when to take a breath! Ah blame the schools, masel ;-)'
When I watch some EPL teams matches, let's say, TOTTENHAM vs. BIRMINGHAM, most of their strategy is to launch the ball upfront, and hope somebody will flick a header and make a shot on the goal. That is second division football in spain.
there is no ball passession and movement, it's about shoot it upfront, and god help. that's what i find stupid to watch many epl teams.
in la liga, most players are comfortable on the ball. they know how to pass, and the construct from the back. every goal is almost a world class goal. EPL, is all about kick and run. In case of Tylor, it's kick, run, injure.
Last edited by Thierry_Henry on April 21st at 9:41 PM.
Ursus:
- I'm just saying that I don't understand how GG says he'll *never* sell to Hicks. How can he assert this if there's a 1st refusal? It's out of his hands the instant he accepts an offer AFAICT
- If there is a time-limit on the 1st refusal, why would TH depreciate his own asset, particularly when: he needs $ help to purchase it, has ~3 months to do it (ie: less time than he'd need to destabilize the share price and squeeze GG), & share price is set? It's absurd. TH, contrary to fashionable opinion, is not retarded
- If TH is indeed somewhat bound by the board, why pull Parry's pants down when he knows he's outgunned 4-2?
It's ludicrous. TH is an excellent NHL owner, and tho his baseball team has met misfortune & misspent, it's NEVER been due to his unwillingness to spend $ (he even spent tons to move ARod when his GM wanted to trade him). I'm just not buying the line we've been fed for the last year. TH admits his issues w/GG revolve around the stadium, & that he wants to throw up a new one ASAP. Seems to me he's the horse to back here. #### has shown nothing but a willingess to leak info and wage PR war.
Is *that* the LFC way?
And isn't Rafa at real risk of dismissal now that TH has exposed the communication issues, w/GG right up Parry's ####?
I mean, what's yer ideal end game in all this?
LGB: So I say missing profits(ie transfers and how they are applied), you say there is a "1st refusal clause"? Hypocrisy at its best.
WTF? Something I said...?
I don't get to watch many games anymore, I'm in school and only have basic cable except for the rare times I go home. I do try to watch the CL games, but with work it just hasn't been posible this term.
That said the leagues I enjoyed watching most are the PL, then ligue un(why did fox stop carrying it?) and Germany. Serie A is too slow paced for me sometimes, but other times it has some great games.
"I totally agree with you that there is a pre purchase, partnership contract/agreement between the 'Hick' and Gillett. The unkown factor is the expiry date of that agreement."
Absolutely. And as gorn pointed out upthread, we only have unverifiable third party statements as sources for that date.
But given the recent flurry of activity-- the reappearance of D.I.C., the statements by Gillett, and the increasingly visible push by Hicks to secure alternate financing so as to be in a position to exercise the pre-emptive rights-- one could reasonably assume the date is fairly soon.
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 22nd at 1:23 AM.
"I'm just saying that I don't understand how GG says he'll *never* sell to Hicks. How can he assert this if there's a 1st refusal? It's out of his hands the instant he accepts an offer AFAICT
GG is under no obligation to sell- so as long as TH holds a pre-emptive right, there is no transaction (as we've seen).
If the right lapses, either because it was negotiated as a time-limited measure, or because there is a trigger that starts a count-down clock to its expiry-- as the pro-GG/ D.I.C. leaks have suggested, with the firm offer by D.I.C. to GG as the trigger-- then GG only has to play a waiting game.
For what it's worth, a clause will usually not be absolute-- there will be an "out" of some sort, to prevent precisely the sort of paralysis we've seen (where ownership is split 50 : 50, and neither is willing to do business with the other). The issue is under what conditions, and at what price to GG, may the "out" be exercised.
Yeah, it is. I have no certain idea what the TH endgame is, and how his actions serve that objective-- but I think I know what it should be, if I am correct about the next steps involving GG and D.I.C.
If TH wanted to try a last fling to stave off the inevitable, however, it might make sense to try some very focussed scorch and burn-- attacking Parry is hardly an unpopular move with the very supporters TH needs onside if he's to have any hope of keeping control of the club past the summer ...
Having said that, I also think TH has either been very badly served by his PR advice, or he has been freelancing and-- unlike in Texas-- he just badly fails to understand the people he is dealing with.
"I'm just not buying the line we've been fed for the last year."
I never bought it-- which was the reason I've been repeatedly questioning the support for GG on this board (primarily on the basis of his experience with the Habs).
continued ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 22nd at 1:28 AM.
"TH admits his issues w/GG revolve around the stadium, & that he wants to throw up a new one ASAP. Seems to me he's the horse to back here."
Going too far, with all due respect. Whatever his real (private) intentions, TH lost all credibility when-- with GG-- he indirectly, but in effect, pulled a Glazer with the financing of their LBO ... despite publicly vowing not to do exactly that some months earlier. Acquisition debt on Kop Holdings, serviceable by the club, is in effect the same thing ...
"D.I.C. has shown nothing but a willingess to leak info and wage PR war."
Harsh, in my view. What other public image could they have, given they've been involved in a protracted attempt at a hostile takeover? Leaking info to discredit the opposition and undermine his negotiating position is how the game is played, for better or worse, when public (fans) opinion is so important.
One could just as easily turn the argument around, and blast TH for failing to accept GG's desire to sell out to D.I.C. with equanimity, in the interest of the club he already owned, instead of pulling out all the stops to prevent the sale ...
The LFC way would never have allowed the fate of the club to be put into the hands of people who were not conversant with those traditions in the first place. Doing so simply invited the disregard and disrespect for the LFC way that we've been seeing ...
"And isn't Rafa at real risk of dismissal ..."
Rafa is the most popular person at Anfield these days. Anybody want to make previous PR disasters pale by comparison, by firing Rafa or constructively "causing" his dismissal?
I've heard that, as part of their DD, D.I.C. have canvassed widely about Rafa, and have come to the conclusion he is the best choice to continue as manager.
Other than the generic "quiet focus on football"? My preferences are partly negative-- what I don't want. I don't want the Duo to have anything more to do with LFC- either of them. They are "unreconstructible", and have lost all credibility.
I want all non-operating debt removed from the club, directly and indirectly, and for the stadium to be self-financed to the extent possible.
I want a decision to be made on Rafa-- does management have full confidence in him? If so, then I want his transfer decisions to be fully supported in a timely fashion. If not, then I want management to find someone in whom they do have confidence-- and do the same.
And I want new owners-- whoever they may be--- to have a reason to own LFC beyond only the cash flows and expected capital growth the club can generate ... though it is OK to also want these things-- profit is tied to sound business management, which also benefits the club's football operations.
No, something I said, long ago. I made the inexcusable error of showing LGB he was wrong about the LFC financial situation. It obviously still rankles. See below if you really want to know more ...
So I say missing profits(ie transfers and how they are applied), you say there is a "1st refusal clause"? Hypocrisy at its best."
Why do you do these things to yourself?
You using the word "statistics" is false advertising of the worst kind. Just stick to saying "my story sounds better than your story"-- you'll be safer.
Second, you've already demonstrated your ignorance of accounting and financial statements, so why do it again? Player transfers are listed and applied-- I can repost the LFC 2006 statements and explain them again if you'd like ...
Third, you did not read the part about "the parties acting as if a partnership pre-emptive right is at play"-- or you did not understand it, as usual: the Duo are acting as we would expect, given the existence such a clause. Is that a simple enough summary? If you don't agree, then show how my arguments are wrong ... if you can ...
Fourth, since your financial-legal-business knowledge is evidently non-existent, you should know that a pre-emption clause is almost always part of situations like the Duo's jointly-held private Kop Holdings. The provision prevents one party from selling out and leaving the other party with an unwanted partner. The surprise would be if the Duo did not have such a clause ...
In the LFC case, the unknown-- as redfan pointed out-- is the exact terms of the pre-emptive rights.
Finally, do you know what "hypocrisy" means, or was that just the biggest word you could find to run through your spell-check ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on April 22nd at 1:46 AM.
URUSUS / LGB
Do they do Last Comic Standing for DUos?
URSUS
Paul WIlson was just paraphrasing Torres, he did it in the first paragraph so it's obvious that by the end of the article what he said would have been changed to what I would like him to have said that agrees with me.
You see that a lot when other people's stuff is used to back up your own shiite.
TH
TA!
I would say that in Serie A or the PL that whilst the participants may give you a clue as to the style of play
