Craigy_f – 1. Who do you rate more highly Best or Ronaldo? 2. What are your first football memories? 3. What moments made you laugh at the weekend – football related of course? 4. Casano’s first of Trezeguet’s second – which was more enjoyable? 5. How do you think that FSC gets it’s team sheets for Serie A games?
Bobby – 1. George Best. 2, Being taken to an amateur international at Dens Park between Scotland and Ireland. First professional game was I think Dundee United vs. Aberdeen. 3. Nothing. 4. Cassano. 5. They get team sheets?
Leche010 - Who do you see surviving and not this season? Obviously Derby are going down, but it's not like that was a surprise from the start. Fulham appear to be joining them, but have brought in quite a few new names, and could easily make a push to get out... I consider them in the relegation fight, as opposed to condemned.
After that there are Boro, Reading, Bolton, Birmingham, Wigan, and Sunderland all within 2 points of each other, fighting not to be bottom of that pack. Simply which of the 7 clubs do you think have what it takes to survive, and which clubs don't?
Bobby – I picked Derby, Wigan and Fulham to go down this season and as normal I will stick with these picks until it is mathematically impossible that it won’t happen. I can see Derby’s fate being sealed with at least five games to go in the season.
Boro will continue to pick up points only to get sucked back down but will stay up; Reading is too strong at home and will survive; Bolton – they scored goals before Anelka and will find enough goals to win a couple of important matches; Birmingham have enough zip about them to finish above the bottom three as long as they hold their nerve. Sunderland – Keane will batter them if they don’t – I don’t think he will allow them to go down.
Apad03-I just read the news that the Concacaf is starting up a champions league for this region. What do you think? I am thrilled to see this happen. I have suggested this for a few years now and I think it will be great to see MLS teams flying to Honduras or the Caribbean for these games. Great experience and I think some lively football.
Bobby – A step in the right direction but it is going to take a few seasons to establish the competition in the hearts and minds.
Craigy_ f - PROMOTION TO THE PREMIER LEAGUE
Any of the current top ten in the Championship you'd love or hate to see in the Premier League next year? They are:- 1 - West Brom, 2 - Bristol City, 3 – Watford, 4 – Stoke, 5 – Charlton, 6 – Palace, 7 – Burnley, 8 – Ipswich, 9 – Cardiff, 10 - Wolves
Bobby – Nothing stands out for me really and they all have the potential to drop back down fairly quickly. Take the clubs you list and the seven clubs listed as possible relegation candidates from a question above and you have parity and an extremely competitive league.
Henry 14 - q1 Do you know how Ericksson might feel now that the bucket load of money from Thaksin seems to not have come as he thought and he really has not spend as he might have thought and do you see them challenging the course for European places if he does not strengthen?
q2 Do you think we will see the full potential of Rooney at Man Utd as long as Ronaldo is there because two years ago he was sort of going to be the alfamale now it seems he is in the shadow of Ronaldo?
q3 With Eduardo coming into his own and playing well by the game, assuming that Adebayor is a shoe in, how do you view the future of RVP because he direct rival striker are at an age that if you know if they become shoe in the team he will be frustrated because they are both 24 years.
Bobby – Q 1. I have no idea what was said to Sven when he signed on but he certainly got a bucket full of money in the summer. The new signings settled in quickly and City benefited from Sven’s organizational skills. However, the momentum has stalled and the rest of the Premiership has done its homework. He needs a regular goal scorer if they hope to compete for a European place.
Q 2 - I don’t see how a player would not achieve his full potential by playing with excellent players. I can’t agree that players can only become great players if there is no one else on the team that might challenge them. I would have thought it the other way around.
Q3 – You are assuming that there is such a thing as a first choice eleven and that all the first choicers are fit and raring to go. It just doesn’t work like that anymore and hasn’t for a long time.
LGB - Would you say that Ronaldo is already a greater player for United than Cantona was?
Bobby – No. Cantona’s influence on United goes well beyond his performances on the park and so I don’t think he ranks behind Ronaldo. The problem with the “who is better” debate is that in almost all cases it favours the current player. Only in retrospect can you really judge whether or not players should be considered as truly great or just one of the best of their generation. And like managers it may not necessarily come down to trophies won.
Farleft - I was wondering if you had any insight into the decision making of which officials get to officiate certain matches? Do officials also get promoted and or relegated at the end of the season based on their performance throughout the season? I am not trying to slag off officials or anything like that, I am just curious.
Bobby – Here is an article that explains the FA’s move a number of years ago to professional referees and another that includes an interview with Keith Hackett. The answer to your promotion/relegation is yes and in some cases referees have been “demoted” for a period of time during the season.
I wrote an article in the fall of 2006 on professional referees and their preparation and the constant feedback and evaluation they receive. Different leagues will deal with referee assignments in different ways but I am confident in stating that any league or association worth its salt is continually evaluating and working with their officials.
Neophyte - Real Madrid continue to show what a great job Capello performed while manager there. Do you think he deserves the credit of bringing back the club to preeminence in La Liga or did the rebuild start before he got? When I watch them play (Real Madrid) they look so strong...solid all the way across. Do you see a fatal flaw that may haunt them later in the season? How about Villarreal? Just out gunned in the final minutes. Got to admire the fight they showed.
One more question....Did you see Riquelme during the Boca/River match-up this weekend? He is still impressive (especially on those free kicks). Do you know why he hasn't been linked to more teams in Europe? I thought I heard Newcastle was interested (who wouldn't they be interested in?). Riquelme seems like such a talent that other teams would have picked him up already.
Bobby – Capello deserves credit because he was the one that took on the galaticos culture and won…even though he lost if you know what I am getting at. I am not convinced that Real Madrid are as strong as their record indicates.
Castillas is still relied upon to bale the team out on more occasions than seems fair and I think their midfield is going to come up short in Champions League play. Villarreal certainly went for it on Sunday – perhaps too much so. It would have been more interesting if Pires had been playing.
I did catch the second half of the Super Classico and the first half highlights. Riquleme was impressive but I don’t think you will see him leave Argentina for Europe again. He is a special talent but he needs a coach who is willing to build a team around him.
At Barcelona that didn’t happen and that is why it did not work out. At Villarreal – initially anyway – they were willing to do that. To answer your question of “who wouldn’t be interested”? – the answer is the overwhelming majority of good teams would not be interested. They are not too many teams willing to gamble success or failure on a single player and that is pretty close to the straight choice with Riquelme. A wonderful talent but with limitations.
AlanV - Different subject. I just finished reading the article about the pilot program to have only the team captain be allowed to discuss decisions with the Ref. As a parent whose son plays at the club level, we already have a similar program here in So. California, at least as far as the parent and player accountability go.
My son has to sign a code of conduct each year where he promises to maintain a level of decorum and civility. He's a ref (U14 and lower) and has noticed a difference for the better in the comments of both players and the sidelines. I think it's a great idea and hope it works. I can agree to a players initial reaction when he disagrees, that's human nature. But there's no call for half the team to be discussing the situation with the ref, especially knowing he won't change his mind. What's your take? Will it work at the pro level or will that be impossible to enforce.
Bobby – It will work if the leagues are willing to stick with it. However, too often we have seen these initiatives taper off after a few weeks. It is really about setting standards and sticking to it. Unfortunately it is easy to say but difficult to stick to.
Henry 14 - My question is that Owen is given an excuse when he does not score that he needs service and other strikers are not given such a ride. The poacher is a dying breed hence reference to Ruud's assist rate
Bobby – You make a good point. I have read a number of articles over the last few seasons that allude to the same point that pure strikers are now a luxury and that they need to deliver more. Having said that it really doesn’t matter if a striker is a pure poacher or a more rounded player they still nned service or some kind to get goals.
LGB - If there is anyone who believes that LFC's most profitable year was a pre-tax profit of £9.46m than I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you...
Ursusarctos provided a top class explanation but I will chime in with my two cents worth.
It is not what they (businessmen) are losing, it is their take on how much more revenue potential there is. Generally successful entrepreneurs do not make money by buying successful businesses, they make money buying companies that they consider to be undervalued and that have potential to generate significantly more revenue or have a poor cost structure.
In the case of football clubs in England the Glazers, Hicks and Gillett see that additional revenue coming from fans. To cut to the chase they purchase the club with little of their own money at stake and then through increased revenue from the fans they pay off the loans incurred in the purchase. End result - they own the club and the fans pay the purchase price and more. The problem is that it is a gamble and should certain assumptions not work out then you see the potential of a financial meltdown ala Leeds.
“What I'm trying to say is that the numbers are #### (just like with United) and these clubs even with the construction of new stadia and the like are still making money hand over fist.”
I can understand that this stuff is not easy to understand but that doesn’t make it ####. Your example of United reminds me of the guy that jumps from the 40th floor of a building and as he passed the 20th floor people heard him say “so far so good.”
The Glazer deal may work out but that doesn’t preclude the fact that it is highly leveraged and comes with significant risk – as does the Liverpool deal. Try telling Leeds fans that it was #### …….they went into Administration for fun right!
The Leeds example is only used as an example of a meltdown …Leeds problems were not caused by a buy-out but they were caused by making some key assumptions that proved to be wrong.
The returns for most sports clubs are not that great, and can be risky, that's why they say don't do it if you don't love the game and/or franchise/city.
Bobby, I know we beat this one to death but where is the growth going to come from for Man Utd or more specifically the Glazers? The fans have had enough the price increases every year are not sustainable? Are they? How can Asia deliver any more shirt sales?
regarding the bosman rule, do you think the French league is the one that lost out the most. From 1990-1999 france had 7 finalist and 2 winners in european cups, since then only 3 and only once in the cl. Even worse, many teams monaco, psg, Bordeaux, Marseilles had gone to the semies countless times. It seems that a lot of the young players, but also "instant stars" keep leaving france. Obviously the taxes play a role, but Auxerre lost Mexes, Boumsong, Kapo, Fadiga, Cisse and benjani in a couple of years because the players wanted to play abroad, they had to sell them (some left on a free transfer), but you get my point.
Hello Bobby,
I had a quick question after watching the Fox Soccer Report last night. With the new CONCACAF Champoins Leugue, does Toronto FC count as a Canadian club, or as an America one b/c they play in MLS?
"The English Premier League is big, but it is not beautiful. It relies on the fantasy that equates money with inevitable sporting achievement. Disparate Americans and odd Russians and various "sovereign funds" appear to have forgotten the cliché about investments going down in value as well as up. The English game seems stifled, dull, and no less predictable than the SPL. I'd call that a crisis."
IAN BELL
What he misses out on is that many games in Serie A are so lopsided - 13 or so teams always play some version of 451 and set out to defend whilst the top teams like to take their time and pick off the lower clubs with their 'star' players.
The only team to buck this trend recently was Chievo Verona, they played attacking football and did well until they got picked over by the bigger sides, they resorted to a more defensive mindset and got relegated.
Whilst you get changes in the strongest teams from time to time or a new boy breaking into the top echelons Serie A (particulalry in the last 20 years) has been remarkably the same.
BOBBY
Loved the tie, brought out your eyes!
Thanks for the responses!
Why did you like the Cassano goal better?
All of those Championship teams would be earmarked for immediate relegation, probably. There would be a touch of unreality for a team such as Stoke or Bristol or Burnley having to wait around until the FA Cup 3rd round before playing. It'd be financially wonderful for these teams but a hammering they would take.
CONCACAF CL
Smashing! The Superliga showed what can happen when national federations get together and work things out. This competition will be a winner.
August is perhaps not the best time of year to be playing multiple games. CONCACAF can be brutally hot and humid at that time of year even at night.
A run of two or three games in quick succession in Dallas, KC or DC...nasty.
KING KEV
Last time around it took him quite a while before he had that wistful smile on his face.
Can you explain the financial aspects of a player transfer? If a player transfers for say 2 Million pounds, how much does the selling club receive, and how much goes to the player? Also, does the transfer fee determine what kind of salary the player receives, or is this a seperate negotiation?
Frenchking2012 - You could always take another perspective which is that the 90s was an aboration. In the 80s I don't think any French team made it to any European final and France have rarely punched their weight in European club competitions. In comparing the 90s to this decade you also need to consider that the European Cup Winners Cup was dropped after 1999 and so there is one less tournament to consider. I have not cruched the numbers but my sense is that Germany has seen a larger drop given that from the 70s to the early part of this decade German team in one or more of the finals was a regular occurence.
Tremelo3 - To my knowledge nothing has been annouced in regards to how a Canadian representative will be selected. However, do not be surprised if TFC, the Whitecaps and the Impact play a round robin tournament of some sort.
Rich252 - There was a day when it was all very simple. In the UK a transfer fee was agreed the selling club got the money and the buying club settled on a new contract with the player. Out of the transfer fee if a player had requested a move (submitted atransfer request) he received 5% of the transfer fee; if he had not asked for a move he got 10%. Things have changed so much with agents more prominent in the dealings and sell on fees being paid in some cases to a previous club I would say that there is no longer a set process. However, the general principle of the transfering club receiving most of the fee still has some validity. The transfer fee does not determine the salary although it is fair to say that in most cases the player that moves in going to benefit through a higher salary and/or a longer contract term.
RubberBoots - The IT guys might say "What is that little orange icon just below my favourite blogs on the right hand side?"
EJ - It might more to do with intensity and consistency rather than technical ability. No one survives in the top league based only on their technical ability.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on January 30th at 4:44 AM.
Bobby-Thanks for responding. The thing is, its not all revenue has to be claimed or said where it comes from.
Take insurance companies for instance. All of their revenue, if not all than 99% of it, comes from investments. That is to say that for every $100 of premuim brought in they pay out, on average, $104.56. So obviously the money has to be brought in somewhere and investments is where they do so.
Going back to Liverpool they are an established football club, or for business purposes, an established brand. But no football club/business can operate on having to pay $60m in extra interest while their best and most profitable year brought them in around roughly $19m.
I understand that H & G are expecting the new stadium to bring in most of the money they are borrowing but when you are losing $41m/year and the new staduim isn't going to be built for three years or so how do they expect to pay off a debt that is well over $100m? It would take decades for that debt to be repaid.
As for Leeds there's was a situation where they were concerned on mostly on-the-pitch affairs. Instead of building a new staduim they kept buying players for well more than what they were worth. They didn't try generate any more revenue, they tried to keep the status quo and survive from there.
Flamini is long term captain material. They want to compare him to Gattusso, I see it, but in my opinion he is more of a box to box Roy Keane type.
And before anyone says Flamini is not that good consistently I will say B.S.,. I have watched him develop and he has steadily improved in every facet and he does EVERYTHING well. Crunching tackles, skill on the ball, passing, willingness to do the dirty work, high work rate, well timed runs into the box.
You could make a case that Flamini has been the most consistent Arsenal player this season. The question is will he stay? His value must have rocketed over the last six months.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on January 30th at 6:20 AM.
LGB - Insurance companies can do that because most of the time they sit on large dollops of cash. Football teams do not enjoy that luxury. The Liverpool borrowings have to be split between the good debt "stadium" and bad debt "borrowings to buy the club."
Even so the next five years are going to be a financial challenge.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on January 30th at 6:19 AM.
The mystery of the landing strip down the middle of the JJB stadium pitch may have been solved.
Apparently they spent 120,000 pounds on an inflatable cover system to protect the pitch from the weather ,only to find out that the center supports killed the grass underneath.
"I now have about as much faith in these cup draws as I do a Russian election. (or an Ohio or Florida election).
Chelsea have reached new lows for bribery and corruption. "
Mas - You gets what you pays for ,and I hear we have the Bristol Rovers/Southampton winner at home in the next round.
Morning peeps! I has been watching the chat but had nothing to add. It's -32C here this morning with wind chill on top and so I am busy keeping my head down and out of the cold. Hopefully we can get 3 points at Upton park today, but hey it's a fluid situation so we might get hammered lol.
Ringo, that landing strip was for Roman's private helo if he was gonna be late!
Last edited by redfan2000 on January 30th at 8:06 AM.
I watched some of the Arsenal/Newcastle game yesterday and I can't help but to be very sad for Michael Owen. How the mighty have fallen. He deserves it in my opinion, but it's still very sad to see.
Another day, another rumor...Kraft may want to buy the club...very good if true.
Yes, redfan...it'd be nice if Kraft was Gillet's partner instead of Hicks. Just look at their track records and current US teams ("franchises")they own. The Patriots are on the brink of the best season ever and the Revs have been in the MLS Finals in back-to-back seasons. He finds a smart coach/manager and puts all his faith in that person to do what's best while not interfering too much. I live in Boston and I've never heard anything from him so you certainly wouldn't get Klinsmann-esque quote idiocy from him. On the other hand, the Dallas Stars won the Stanley Cup in spite of Hicks (thanks to some questionable officiating, just ask LGB) and the Texas Rangers are a joke. But it doesn't matter, it's not going to happen.
I always find it amusing what happens at the end of the transfer window. Teams have had all month to make negotiations, sign players, sell players, make transfers, whatever... But yet there's always this last day rush to get things done.
I know there's obiously a lot more that goes on behind the scenes that isn't made public, and that I have a very, VERY limited comprehension of the subject. But to me it's funny that teams wait until the last minute to sign players they want, when they could have all month long.
On the Flamini issue he has been one of Arsenal most consistant player but you have to consider Sanga who for me has been Arsenal best and most consistant player. His defense is outstanding, his passes amazing. He has been a revelation for Arsenal only thing he hasn't done is score.
I think Flamstar will stay at Arsenal coz of the French connection and he also seemed to have created a great friendship with Cesc, Helb and Rosisky.
Eto becomes African cup all time scorer he deserves it.
Adebayooo is quickly joining that list of great African Strikers at the moment I would put him 3rd behind the great Eto and Drogba.
You gotta be pretty happy with that Hutton signing, if the backline can stay healthy, they will have a pretty good defensive backbone. Of course that is a big if, especially with Robinson in goal.
if man u do not score a third they do not go top even if they have a better goal difference because arsenal will have scored more goals , does it work like that?
henry14 it doesn't work like that. The first look at the goal scored and goal conceded ratio if that's tied I think thats when they look at the goal scored ratio only.
The Chelsea/Reading game is a better game to watch coz at least both teams are playing unlike at Old T where Portsmouth gave up even before they left Pompy.
Could anyone please tell me when the African Cup of Nations is being played?
The reason I ask ,I remember reading and hearing ad nauseum ,and quite a lot ,how Chelsea would struggle and/or collapse while it is being played.
As that hasn't happened yet ,and Chelsea have in fact just won a club record-equalling ninth straight game in all competitions ,I can only assume the ACoN hasn't started yet.
I've to give it to Chelsea Ringo they know how to grind out Wins but they have also been somewhat lucky in this 9 win run. Also the squad they are playing can win any title in the World even the C.L. so it doesn't make a difference with Chelsea who is there and who is not.
Yes, well done to Chelsea. It's nice to see how well the managed to fix themselves a comfy schedule in the absence of Drogba, Essien and Mikel. You've had a nice run against clubs in the lower half of the table -- Spurs, Brum, Wigan and Reading. And even the next two fixtures have a nice bit of luck to them -- Portsmouth, who has their own ACN-related issues, and Liverpool, who are hobbled with a manager that continues to pick Harry Kewell ahead of Ryan Babel. Clearly, Roman's petro-rubles and Mourinho's moaning have finally paid some dividends. Well done Chelsea!
There can be no argument: Christiano Ronaldo is the greatest player in the world right now. Kaka is the only one who can touch him, but even he doesn't have the same charisma on the field. Messi offers the same excitement everytime he touches the ball, but he is injured far too often. Ronaldo has everything: size, strength, durability, good heading skills, amazing with both feet, he is a team player, and he now scores at will. Yes, he is on a streak right now, and he is bound to hit a bad patch, but I think he is a shoo-in for the next golden ball. Obviously, the Euros and Champions League will be the deciders, but I expect him to shine in those competitions, too.
P.S. Redfan 2000, I was too late to get a reservation for Burns night, but I hope to get to that Brit Cafe soon. Work is crazy right now, though. (I won on Pro-Line thanks to the Hammers today, by the way.)
Ronaldo is know doubt a great player, but I feel he still hasn't shown it yet against the very best. Does anyone know his goal tally against the Top 4 in the EPL? Not to mention his performance against AC Milan, and Chelsea last year in the champs league, and the FA Cup respectively. On a side note, I feel that Ronaldo at that point though had run out of gas, and just didn't have the energy for the last few games.
But until he proves it in the most important of games, I will still consider Kaka the best player on the planet for the time being.
Rondaldo's record aginst Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal is 3 goals in 26 matches, and all 3 goals are against Arsenal. He really though has any real effect on the games. Rooney is usually the one who has big games against big teams and that's why I still think Rooney is more important to ManUre than Ronaldo. He is currently on a hotstreak though but he is currently the best player. Lets wait and see how the year goes.
The fact Flamini hasn't got a new deal yet is worrisome. Not that I think hes the type of guy who would take the money and run but if he keeps playing so well a silly club might throw some ridiculous money at him that Wenger wont be willing to match considering how frugal he is sometimes.
As for Ronaldo all the talk about how he performs in big games really should just be put off until.... United have some big games to play. 27 goals this year in 27 games and I think we can agree there hasn't been a pivotal must win game yet. On the bright side though theres bound for some to come for us to measure him against this season. Even if hes a no show in those games I think hes proven at the least he can be the main engine for a team chasing a league title. He punishes lower teams and their defenses pretty much like no other player right now.
As for Liverpool and their financial situation it will be much bleaker if they don't finish 4th this year. Trust me that easy CL group stage money was in Gillette and Hicks calculations when they bought the team and to lose out on that easy T.V money would be the first painful blow for any team that is carrying debts.
BBC is reporting, finally, that a fans consortium is launching a fund raising scheme to buy the club.
Quote:
"Share Liverpool FC Group is to reveal plans for a buy-out of the club by 100,000 Reds fans around the world.
The model proposed will be a Barcelona style, "member-share" scheme, aimed at raising £500m to purchase the club from its US owners and build a new stadium.
As well as UK-based fans, a website will be launched to attract interest from Liverpool's supporter base around the world, particularly in East Asia.
Club refinancing:
Those behind the move are football business lecturer and Liverpool fan Rogan Taylor, former director of communications at the Premier League Phil French, and lawyer Kevin Jacquiss - an expert in launching co-operatives.
"The time is right to offer a different solution to the rising concerns that football fans have about the patterns of ownership developing at our major football clubs," said Mr Taylor, who is director of the Football Industry Group at the University of Liverpool".
Unquote.
Been a while coming this one and it should shake Hicks and Gillette to the core, as while they do not have to sell, if the fans come up with 500 million it will likely hinder any chance to refinance the new stadium with the banks. I think it unlikely too that the fans will get into bed as it were, to co-own with the American pair. Watch this space as I think it is good news indeed.
Further to the above, working on the basis of 100,000 fans world wide, giving 5,000 pounds each to the fund, will raise the 500 million required.
If more than 100k fans respond that figure could well be exceeded. It opens the possibility of the new stadium being built without debt and the club back in the hands of the fans, with ownership based and managed from within the City of Liverpool, not from Florida or Dubai.
BLUESTUFF / FLASH
OMG what an awful game? Unless of course you are a defensive connosoiur.
LGB
Explain to me how the Champions League is harder to win than the Premier League.
CL - 6 group games, three two legged ties and a final - you only have to actually win the final
PL - 38 games, minimum number of wins (in last 10 years) is 22, some years you've needed 29.
RED DEVIL MAGIC
Man United beat Pompey in 15 minutes today - truly awesome football. Ronaldo was brilliant, Scholes back to near his best, Vidic - awesome.
Rooney and Evra and Nani all a bit profligate in front of goal.
ACoN
Come on you Black Stars!
Serie A
Milan win another game in hand
Juventus go out the Coppa Italia
THE SPECIAL ONE
Has been seen on TV wearing red! He's cultured and urbane, Liverpool is the city of culture and urban - wow - are you thinking wht I'm thinking - he is almost better than the pope or tebbit.
BRILLIANT!
REDSTUFF
Snicker! Those pesky yanks fouling things ups on the pitch again? Much more trouble than those pesky Icelandic bankers.
At least with 40 points you are clear of the relegation battle!
That Share Liverpool FC group will never work.
They already got the refinancing deal they wanted..."
And your authority for that definitive statement is ...?
I'm not at all certain that the Duo got exactly the refinancing deal they would have liked in an ideal world (ideal for them)- and to see why, give a careful read to the latest article by David Conn (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/ 2008/01/30/the_bottom_line_refinanc ing_pu.html):
"Kop Football Holdings has now borrowed £350m... £105m of it is "at club level" and £245m "at the holding company level"... The holding company was formed to buy Liverpool and the club, still, is the sum total of what it owns. So although the £245m is secured on the holding company, that means it is effectively secured on the club, too. Hicks also announced that he and Gillett have provided £225m in personal guarantees, cash and letters of credit to support the borrowing - facilities the banks must have required for extra security. Asked whether the club's money ... will be used to pay off interest on the holding company's £245m, Hicks' spokesperson said: "The holding company debt is supported by the assets it acquired (principally the club) and should there ever be any shortfall in cash flow at the club or anywhere else in Kop in any given year, the owner obligation, under the terms of the financing package, is to fund whatever is required.""
Last edited by Ursusarctos on January 30th at 8:43 PM.
LFC currently sit 7th, out of Europe- with a game in hand, true. What if the season ended this way? Lower revenues due to no European money next year, interest payments on the refinancing due, both the new stadium financing to be found and the ongoing necessity to fund improvements among the playing staff in order to ensure future profitability ... might there not be a "shortfall in cash flow at the club" that might necessitate Kop Football Holdings invoking the guarantees of its shareholders- the Dynamic Duo- in order to meet its interest obligations?
Is that the sort of commitment of personal resources that the Duo had in mind with their leveraged buyout? Nope! Their hope, as with all such transactions, was to commit as few personal assets as possible- thus the debt secured on the Kop Football holding company, where any failure to meet interest obligations ("insolvency") would only affect the sole asset held by it- LFC. It looks like the bankers foresaw the possibility of just such a collapse in cash flow from the club, therefore requiring the additional personal guarantees of the Duo to ensure the loans had sufficient collateral (what does that say about the potential short-term financial health of LFC, from the bankers' viewpoint ...?).
My point, LGB, is that there ALWAYS comes a point when at least one of the available alternatives starts to look more inviting than the status quo- or, when one of the alternatives takes advantage to step up with a sweetened offer too good to resist. I highly doubt that the Duo have a deep emotional attachment to LFC (although ego may come into play ...)- they are in this game because they saw better profit on offer for the perceived level of risk from owning LFC than from any alternative available opportunities ... and should that calculation change in their view, they will leave as fast as they can cash the buyout cheque!
Having said that, I have no idea how feasible a Barca-style scheme might be in English football, nor the level of potential (financial) interest there might be among supporters. Bobby, have any other clubs in England or Scotland followed this route before? The LFC plan sounds somewhat similar to the Ebbsfleet United setup, but without the direct supporter/ owner managerial input of course.
Last edited by Ursusarctos on January 30th at 9:12 PM.
LGB: "... did you see today's game? Owners fault again, I suspect."
Let's try a little "what if" game, shall we? The Universe does not unfold in a single, deterministic line, after all ...
What would the past 2 months on-pitch results look like if there had been no Dynamic Duo/ Rafa tiff in November? If the Duo had expressed clear public confidence in Benitez and his transfer plans from the start- or, fired him BEFORE THE SEASON and found someone they did have confidence in? If Hicks had the brains to not talk to Klinnsman, or the brains to not bring it up with the press? If the Duo had kept their word about not pulling a "Glazer" with the club finances, thereby not upsetting supporters? Etc ... etc ... etc ...
Is it possible the results might have been different? If so, do the owners bear any responsibility for the way things have actually turned out?
Nope, no fault with those owners. After all, professional athletes are totally divorced from the feelings in their community and among their fans, the state of mind of their coaching staff, their future prospects, their pride in the organization they serve, and so on. Automatons, don't you know ...
Last edited by Ursusarctos on January 30th at 8:39 PM.
Of the big four the only ownership and financial situation I would currently want to be in is... Arsenals. No owner sticking his nose in. No owner buying the club just to borrow against it and get his money back and have the fans pay the price. New stadium thats being sold out with a huge waiting list paying off a realistic debt. We will just pertend that Arsenal don't already have one of the highest ticket prices ;P but at Arsenal: £94/£46 (A), £66/£32 (B) with A games being against the other top 4, derbies and big CL games I think 46 really ain't that bad compared to what equivalent American sports for equivalent games are. Cheaper then Lakers tickets thats forsure.
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