BobbyMcMahon's Blog
by: BobbyMcMahon
Speakers' Corner #60 Responses
Nov 13, 2007 | 3:58PM | report this

Phils92001 - The point that I want to make is that of Newcastle. I think that If Big Sam cannot find the goal from Owen, he needs to drop him to the bench and play the one that give the club 17 goals last season.

I think Martins is being robbed the opportunity of not have the chance to play. The club might regret if Martin leaves and that he has lost confidence in the coach because he is playing limited minutes as he used to play last season. If I am correct, whenever Martins and Emre play, there is a different form of attack than what they have now for the pass two game and that Martin scores which is something different than what Owen pose now.

Owen is playing like he is afraid to going into tackles. Whether it is due to his past injury or he is trying to rediscover his form, it might be too late for Big Sam. please give your thoughts on these comments.

Bobby – I think you are looking at this from only one side. If you took the route your suggesting then Allardyce would play Martins and keep Owen on the bench. By doing that Allardyce has no chance that Owen will ever get back to match fitness.

A match fit Owen is a goal machine and as such is a better option than Martins. I’m certain that Owens Premiership record to minutes played at Newcastle is superior to Martins.

There is no doubt that Martins can be an explosive player but he is also very inconsistent and there are times he could not hit a barn door if it was three yards in front of him. There is a reason that Inter generally used him as a substitute.

Djnima 1. You were right about McLaren not getting the Galaxy job, but do you think he was there to apply for the job? Do you think there was an interview? 2. How would you rate England and Scotland's chances of qualifying for the Euros? 3. Do you think Real Madrid have a chance of making the Champions league Final this season?

Bobby – No and no – a figment of someone's over stimulated imagination. I cannot imagine anyone being that stupid especially when the English press is watching every move.
2. Not all that good on either count. At least Scotland can affect their fate; England needs to hope and pray. However, if Russia stumbles against Israel I cannot see England passing up a second opportunity. 3. Based on their form so far I would be very surprised if they made it to the last four.


Ringo - Did you hear the rumours a couple of weeks back that if/when England and Scotland fail to qualify ,they might play each other in a pair of games at Wembley and Hampden instead?

Bobby – I know that Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales have been lobbying for a return of the Home Internationals but I have not heard about the possibility of an England / Scotland series.

Getz76 - Quick Arsenal question; who's their keeper after the January transfer window? I hear rumors of Green coming from WHU and I would love to believe it, as I think he has as much to do with WHU staying up last season as Tevez. Any other candidates. I know Wenger tends to grab players from Parts Unknown most of the time, but I do not think he will gamble as much on a keeper.

Bobby – If Arsene Wenger signs a keeper it is unlikely to be one presently playing in the UK. In the majority of cases he would have the option to sign one of them before this and obviously he passed on it. He went the English route with Richard Wright and it did not work out. I would suggest that Wenger would consider signing a UK keeper a bigger risk than signing one from your “Parts Unknown”. If Lehmann shut his mouth and was on his best behavior like he was during the season before the 2006 World Cup then he would be starting for Arsenal in goal. At the moment every time he opens his mouth it is to change feet – Wenger cannot recall him as long as he is spouting off.

CIAO - Marcotti's article this week is a bit strange. He really must not have anything to write about and is picking on Martin O'Neil. Isn't a bit early to call O'Neil's time at Villa disappointing? There are no signs that his position is in jeopardy. If the owner had more expectations, we would have seen highly rated players make their way to the club during the summer.

Bobby – O’Neill’s first season may not have been as good as others before him but I would say Villa has a more solid foundation on which to build than they have had for a long time.

They have a very good group of youngsters and if Carson signs permanently then they should have a solid keeper for seasons to come – I have never been a fan of Sorensen. A good shot blocker but brutal of crosses.

Although Marcotti is correct in terms of a consistent goal scoring threat. Agbonlahor will get goals but they need another to partner him. Carew has the tools to be a great striker………except for the part that scores goals.


Apad03 - 1. I read the post on Gullit but what I want to know that really wasn’t in the article is what type of football can we expect to see from his team? Does he have an attacking type of style or what? I am not familiar with his managerial style so I am curious to see what type of football he is going to instill on his new team.


2.  What is the best duo, in your opinion, up front for Liverpool?  I think they should be playing Voronin and Torres up front. Voronin has some sweet passing skills and I think that with Torres' speed and touch they would make the best partnership up front for Liverpool. I don’t remember seeing them play together yet but I know you'll correct me if I am wrong.

Bobby –1. In terms of Gullit and his arrival at the Galaxy you will soon see countless articles that talk of “Total Football.” Don’t believe a word of it. The concept of Total Football evolved through the work of a number of coaches until it became personified in the Ajax side of the early 70s and Dutch national team at the 1974 World Cup.

The concept requires incredibly skilled players both technically and tactically as well as exceptional speed and fitness. The essence of it is that the ten players (and some would point out that the goalkeeper is expected to do more tactically aware also) are expected to be able to play in any of the outfield positions through constant movement and changing of positions which creates space when attacking and takes it away when defending.

It also requires the team to play a high pressure pressing game a part that Milan perfected under Arrigo Sacchi – with Gullit, Rijkaard and Van Basten in the side. Gullit will not have players talented enough at the Galaxy to play “Total Football”.


However, you can expect Gullit to emphasize speed and width – maybe a standard 4-3-3 formation with two wide players up front. Passing and possession will be paramount. It should be entertaining although I would not be surprised if the start of next season is a struggle as the team copes with the change.

I think someone like Landon Donovan could really benefit from the new regime.


2. If Kuyt can recover any sort of form then the best pairing for me would be Torres and Kuyt. 

Let’sGoBuffalo - Any chance we will see a ban on Italian Calcio, like the one UEFA bestowed upon England in the late 80's, early 90's?With all the corruption(inside the game) and violence from the fans it’s no wonder something like this happened.

Bobby – As long as the issue is domestic trouble in Italy there is no chance that UEFA or FIFA would step in. It would create a dangerous precedent that would have far reaching impact on other leagues should anything remotely similar happen. Just to cover old ground – The FA withdrew English teams from European competition after pressure was applied by Margaret Thatcher’s government. The UEFA ban came after that decision was made.

CIAO - Have you heard of Marat Izmailov? Supposedly City, Inter and Sampdoria are all in the race to sign him...

Bobby – I have heard of him but do not know very much about him. I believe he is playing in Portugal on loan from his Russian club side.

Craigy_f –1. What’s your take on the upcoming Scotland Italy game? 2. Do you see Hughes as a successor to Ferguson? 3. How would you rate Martin O’Neill’s tenure at Villa?

Bobby –1. I am not optimistic – I’ve just seen this movie too many times. I hope I am wrong but I see Italy getting the result that they need.

2. I could see Mark Hughes doing a good job at Old Trafford but what I can’t see is a set of circumstances that would position him to take over. Manchester United would not appoint him straight from Blackburn so I think he has to move to a bigger club either in England or abroad but I can’t see where the opportunity might come from.

3. See one of the previous responses.

Chelseabon - Recent news is the Seattle Sounders will be an MLS team in 2009, and it will follow a "club member/owner" style scheme which Barcelona uses where the fans get to vote managers out. Though it appears to work for Barca, I don't feel that this is the best idea for a brand new MLS side. What are your thoughts on this ownership style coming to the US?

Bobby – I was not aware that Barcelona can vote the manager out. They elect the President as they do at Real Madrid and other clubs but I can’t remember a situation where the members voted for a manager’s dismissal.

From what I have been able to discern to compare the Seattle idea with Barcelona’s model is like comparing Paris Hilton’s “work” with drunken elephants to Mother Teresa.

Barcelona is owned by the members – full stop. Seattle has owners who are putting substantial monies up and they are considering granting fans an opportunity to buy a “membership”. From the pieces I have read the Seattle model is little more than an enhanced supporters club and although it might be well intentioned it iappears to be no more than a gimmick.

Henry14 q1. Can you explain big Sam's lack of tactical nous, why he plays Smith as a defensive midfield, Martins is there to goal scorer but he is on the bench, here is a guy who scored 17 goals last season, more than Viduka and Owen.
q 2 How does Barton escape punishment for a horror tackle when Dunn misses games for two not malicious tackles?
q 3 Will Mac stay as England boss given a wide call for him to be not sacked?
q 4 Are reds genuine title contenders?

Bobby –1. Martins may have scored 17 goals but Viduka scored more - 19. Owen was injured for most of the season so it is hardly a fair comparison. Never been convinced that Martins is a reliable starter saw it with Inter. Over the careers of Owen and Viduka their individual strike rates are far better than Martins.

2. I think the FA chickened out on this one.

3. You must be hearing voices “a wide call for him not to be sacked”?

4. Yes but they need to go on an extended winning streak and stop drawing games against teams that they should be beating. The mid-December meeting with Manchester United is crucial – a loss might leave them nine points behind with nearly half the season gone.

111 Comments | Add a comment   categories: Obefemi Martins, Michael Owen, Sam Allardyce, Mark Viduka, Steve McClaren, LA Galaxy, Scotland, Italy, England, Arsenal, Jens Lehmann, Richard Wright, Martin O'Neill, Aston Villa, Gabriele Agbonlahor, Thomas Sorensen, Scott Carson, John Carew, Ruud Gullit
 
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therealrico
Nov 13, 2007
4:38 PM
Carry over from old post. I agree with you Mas Taylor is probably not the future of the MLS but he still has youth on his side, and could play a key part in the upcoming World Cup. Where as I think Ching is now 29 and will be a little old come 2010, but hey he could pull a McBride and get better with age.

atleti
Nov 13, 2007
4:55 PM
Argentina's World Cup Qualifer squad for this week (Colombia & Bolivia):

GK:Abbondanzieri, Andújar, Orión.

DEFENCE: Coloccini, Milito, Heinze, Zanetti, Burdisso, Demichelis, Ibarra.

MIDFIELD: Cambiasso, Gago, Mascherano, Maxi, Riquelme, Insúa, Battaglia

STRIKERS: Agüero, Messi, Tevez, Crespo, Denis.

I love it!

Vamos Vamos! Argentina!

Here's hoping Lisandro Lopez & Lavezzi are included in future games.

craigy_f
Nov 13, 2007
7:11 PM
bobbby, can you explain this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/pho
to_galleries/7092569.stm

See picture 10

albertagooner
Nov 13, 2007
7:24 PM
atleti.

Lisandro Lopez looks like a great player with unfortunate timing. I caught him in Porto's recent matches against Marseilles and he's another forward with intelligent movement and awesome technique. They must have a factory somewhere near Buenos Aires that turns them out!

mrfuzziwig
Nov 13, 2007
8:00 PM
It is all about defense lads. Newcastle, Tottemham, Fulham et. al... Everyone loves to spend the big money on strikers but it is defense that wins games. If one looks at the "big 4" and the success stories, they will see clubs that are committed to quality defense and spending on quality defenders. Newcastle supporters will look at Big Sam and expect him to have the same results as Sven in Man. City. The difference however, is that Man. City plays quality defense (the Chelsea abberation notwithstanding) and has quality defenders. That is the main centerpiece of their club right now. Until these clubs dedicate themselves to bringing in quality defenders and playing sound defense they will continue to have problems and go through managers.

craigy_f
Nov 13, 2007
8:16 PM
Atleti - what is the likley formation and starting eleven?
Who would your starting eleven be?
Are the games in Argentina?
Who would get dropped for Lavezzi?


Mr fuzzwig - is that a Forest symbol?
Vidic Ferdinand
Gallas Toure
Carragher Agger
Terry Carvalho
Yobo Lescott
Richards Dunne
who would you pick as your centre backs

For me Vidic and Ferdinand, easily the best pairing in the Prem when everyone's fit.

atleti
Nov 13, 2007
8:54 PM
Factories all over the place, alberta!! ;)

Football is the heartbeat of Argentina! People stop their work, their academics, their fights, their romances, their everything when it comes to World Cup & World Cup qualifiers.

Lisandro is not a strong Argentine centre-forward like Batistuta or Crespo. But he's very quick & can shoot at goal well with his left or right foot. Great for counter-attacks & can create opportunities for other players.

craigy: home to Bolivia & away to Colombia.

I honestly don't know who I'd drop to make room for Lavezzi! Spoilt for choice! Crespo won't play in the WC, so that leaves hope for centre-forward types.

Possible formation: Abbondanzieri; Zanetti; Demichelis; Milito; Heinze; Maxi; Mascherano; Cambiasso; Messi; Riquelme; Tevez

Still unclear on whether Crespo will start. I'd rather see Aguero than Messi in the starting 11, based on club form.

getz76
Nov 13, 2007
9:02 PM
Bobby, thanks as usual for the insight. Much appreciated.

Great line regarding Lehmann's feet.

craigy_f
Nov 14, 2007
5:17 AM
I really don't think Tevez and messi should start together. When they did that in the Copa Argentina looked a bit lightweight up front, although Tevez was flinging his head at anything in the air.
Crespo is my first choice but I haven't seen enough of Aguero or Denis to see if he compares to Crespo.
Crespo is like a trezeguet though, does nothing for 88 minutes and scores two goals!
Will Sosa get a look in at all?

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
6:39 AM
Bobby-Thanks for the answer.

Craigy and Fuzzy-I think if you are going to look at central pairings you also have to throw the keeper in there because when a keeper is out the center pair can look like ####

If you take all those center pairings and put the keeper in with them I think you'd have to rate Chelsea's as the best. Followed by Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Everton and then City.

If you don't have the keeper in with them then the obvious best pairing for me is Arsenal's. No pairing on that list is as fast, talented or better technically than Toure and Gallas. They make any keeper look better than they are. Not to mention the ground they cover allows their fullbacks to get forward and to get into the attacking third without worry of having to track back(which has been a big difference this year).

getz76
Nov 14, 2007
7:07 AM
Anyone see Coppell's comment on limiting foreign players?

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/sto
ry/7444620?var=one&rand=167

Is he mad? I thought he was a reasonable man. Given how overpriced English players are without such quotas, can you imagine how much more expensive they would be if there were quotas? How would a Reading squad come close to being competing in that scenario?

albertagooner
Nov 14, 2007
8:09 AM
The quota talk is inevitable and understandable, getz76, because it's much, much easier to point the finger at foreign players than undergo a critical self-examination. It's why I grate my teeth when I hear people talk about England's world-class players. Really? Which ones? Looking at the Three Lions, it's reminds me of what Roy Keane once said about Paul Scholes' "poor" form for England -- he played with much better players at United. And I see a technically limited squad with atrocious goalkeeping, a soft, technically limited midfield that lacks compsure on the ball and is poor without it as well as inconsistent strikers who generally take three chances to convert one.

albertagooner
Nov 14, 2007
8:09 AM
And now Prime Minister Gordon Brown is muddling the issue by insisting on "British" players for "British" teams (http://football.guardian.co.uk/New
s_Story/0,,2210568,00.html). Which seems to suggest that players from the British Isles ought to enjoy unfettered access to Premiership clubs while enforcing a quota on everybody else.

As Liam Brady points out, having a predominantly "British" Premiership didn't help the Three Lions qualify in 1974, 1978 or 1994. (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/
2007/11/13/dont_blame_foreigners_we
_were.html)

gongatore
Nov 14, 2007
8:27 AM
alberta-
well said... i think brown is muddying the waters in football because the torries are knipping at his heels and he thinks that he'll get votes. funny he's a scotsman.

what's with this protectionism. it certainly won't help england's chances in the future.

as an aside, hbo (in canada it's probably on free to air) has a new film called "the deal". it's about blair and brown's political pact in '94. very good.

Sleeper000
Nov 14, 2007
9:07 AM
Wow. I am reading comments from English fans, players, and media. So sad. It seems that the general thought is that if Israel gets a draw against Russia, England's win against Croatia will be a given. Why was England's defeat against Croatia considered a fluke? In case people wondered, Croatia hold the record for the longest unbeaten record in the qualifiers, and have never been beaten at home during qualifiers. So, why do people still believe that England should've beaten Croatia away? I don't get it. The English fans still think that England is better than Croatia. On what merrit do they justify their biased views?
Now I really don't want England to qualify. Why can't they just understand that England simply s.u.c.k.

Last edited by Sleeper000 on November 14th at 9:19 AM.

Sleeper000
Nov 14, 2007
9:09 AM
Placing a cap on the influx of foreign players in the Premiership will not improve the quality of English football. The players who don't deserve to start will start, but how will that improve the English team? What will happen to the foreign players?
Nothing. They'll simply move to other leagues...Italy, Spain...

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
9:25 AM
Alberta-I think we've talked about this before but I totally agree on the fact that MANY of England's players are highly over-rated. While we won't agree on Gerrard, I think the point with Scholes is a perfect example. In fact take out Scholes and insert Lampard.

And when talking of world-class players I think England have three or four when healthy and in-form. In fact if you look at their forwards only one is an out and out goalscorer and thats lil Mickey. He's never healthy and Rooney is just way too inconsistent in front of goal.

In saying that, the blame still lies on McClaren because while they don't have a "world class" team they do have just as talented players as Russia, if not better. England's just not in the top echeleon of world football. Its league is not its national team.

therealrico
Nov 14, 2007
9:27 AM
I just had a thought, and maybe this will help people understand the english mindset, because this is the only way I can justify in my head how they feel about the national team, and qualification to Euro 08.

As an American the US basketball team is considered the best, and when we lose we make excuses, such as stars being selfish. And we refuse to believe that maybe other countries have caught up with us with basketball talent.

There seem to be some parallels, US invented basketball, or a canadian in the US. England invented soccer. Both have what is considered, or in Englands case one of the 3 best leagues in the world. I could probably come up with more comparisons, but I am at work, and I think those are the most important.

I think when you look at it from that view it is easy to understand how people think over there, they have just been in denial a lot longer than we have about basketball.

Ringo Craigy, what do you guys think about that? I would like your british/american opinion.

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
9:37 AM
Rico-I see the parallels except two things...1. When the US lost this past time around they didn't have their best players and 2. England has never been dominant in world football. At least not since the World Cup was started, as they've won only one trophy.

Sleeper000
Nov 14, 2007
9:38 AM
Rico, I do not think England should be compared to the U.S. basketball team. The last time England have accomplished anything was in the sixties, while the U.S. basketball team has dominated the sport for a long time. It is true that the other teams have caught up with the U.S. but the U.S. are nowhere near the mediocrity that can be seen in the English team. The U.S. when they wield their strongest team (Kobie, Wade etc) can still take on the toughest teams and expect a decent chance of winning the olympics and the world championship while the English do not. Also, the quality of the Premiership is represented by the best foreign players, while NBA's best players are still primarily American.

henry14
Nov 14, 2007
9:54 AM
l can not see united spending more than 25m pounds on berbatov, he will be 27 in january and fergie by buying tevez has a way he wants to play for the next 5 years, l am not sure he will move because with giigs , nani, anderson,rooney and tevez l can not see him fitting, he isclearly not going to sell tevez and rooney.mr gerrard is a #### , he should say those statement about qouatas in the liverpool dressing room

Gunner44
Nov 14, 2007
10:18 AM
When Arsenal where winning with Thierry, Pires, Wiltord and Viera they said we were too French now they say we are to foreign.

Great Point about the U.S. Basketball team.

therealrico
Nov 14, 2007
10:26 AM
Sleeper, LGB the one difference being I think we are now at the beginning where the US won't be dominant or relatively soon. Where as England hasn't been the best for a while, but I think it is more a case of denial by the English press, and fans, and couple that with having what is considered the best or one of the best leagues in the world you can kinda see why people would think that way. Not saying it is right or wrong, just trying to think of it in a different light, ya know?

And the thing about our best players is one example I think of denial, maybe we didn't have our best team, but the very fact that we don't even feel we need to bring our best team reeks of arrogance.

Last edited by therealrico on November 14th at 10:34 AM.

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
10:53 AM
Rico-I totally see where you are coming from. Its just that if we put our best against the worlds best there's no way we lose in basketball. Where as in the early 90's we didn't need our best, second-best or even our third-best to beat the rest of the world now we do.

With England they can't beat the world's best with their best and have only done it once and that was on home ground.

Its a very relevant comparison I was just pointing out the differences. Expectations for the US is to just walk through everyone which is no longer realistic. Expectations for England is to beat everyone, which is(and probably never was) no longer realistic.

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
11:03 AM
Gunner44-Its the same thing, really.

h14-He said that it would help the national team because more English players would be playing in the top flight...and he's probably right. He never called for a limit though.

And why aren't you calling out Owen for what he said?

MasMaz
Nov 14, 2007
11:04 AM
I GUARANTEE that England beat Croatia. Put it in the bank. I am putting this one up there with my previous guarantees of CHelsea over Valencia in the champs last year and Marseilles over Liverpool.

Whether Israel do the job against Russia is a different story. All those saying that Israel will fight hard to preserve their dignity where are you? With Roman giving the Russians 100,000 pounds each, what do you think he is giving the Israeli's and their Russan/Israeli goalkeeper coach?

ENgland have as least as much talent as either RUssia or Croatia. What they don't have is hunger, team spirit or a manager with any tactical ability.

David James should start at least he gives you the chance of making a tough save or win a penalty shoot-out. And so should Fat Frank.

Sleeper000
Nov 14, 2007
11:07 AM
letsgobuffalo, i am curious, what did Owen say?

MasMaz
Nov 14, 2007
11:10 AM
If we put our best in B-ball we still lose. WHo do you consider our best B-Ball team? Whoever you name sounds like a bunch of individuals. I'd rather have a team of 2nd tier stars. No Kobe, No Lebron, No Garnett.

getz76
Nov 14, 2007
11:27 AM
Steven Gerrard's comments about foreign quotas and McClaren;

1) Quotas - is he jealous that he is not the number 1 star for his squad any longer (if you had to choose, Torres or Gerrard)?

2) Backing McClaren? Not shocking, since Owen, Gerrard, and Terry are automatic starters for country under McClaren, even when they are not in form or fit.

Regarding the England national squad, it is a bit like the NFL's Miami Dolphin fans of the 1990s, where every season they were convinced that they were unstoppable and were all but assured they would win the Superbowl. The expectation was based on absolutely nothing and a blind assessment that mediocre talent was more than that. That said, I think England should be performing better in that group, as they have as much talent as anyone else. That leaves the manager to blame.

Mix the starting XI from France, Germany, England, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Holland, and how many English make it into an All-Euro squad based on form and fitness of the last year?

Make a starting XI from the pool of EPL players, and how many English make it in?

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
11:39 AM
sleeper- Courtesy of soccernet.com:

'We all want one thing at the end of the day, we want our national team to be very good and our league to be good,' he told a press conference televised by Sky Sports News.

'The foreigners have helped raise the standard of our game but if you want to be greedy you would want English players to raise that standard further.

'You always think to yourself the top English players will come through and play but there are some who are late developers and they get pushed to the back of the queue because there are too many foreign players.'

Mas-Lebron and Garnett are not individual type players. I can understand Kobe but those two? How much NBA action do you see?

Getz-The "Dolphans" are still like that...

Gerrard is still number 1 over Torres. Its not even close. As for the mixing of the national teams...its all on preference but I like to think Mr Gerrard would be there at least on the bench.

As well as the starting XI of the PL would definitely have him. That is if you asked the English experts...and me.

Sleeper000
Nov 14, 2007
11:40 AM
MasMaz, you might as well call the Dream Team that dominated everyone at the Barcelona olympics a team of individuals then as well. When you look at them they had so much individual talent on that squad, it was ridiculous. People keep talking about the "team" but unless you have gifted individuals that either play boring shut-down-everyone defense or a high scoring offensive soccer, you won't win. You might be able to overachieve like England did at the last World Cup, but that's it. Regardless of what kind of individuals you have in your squad, if England really had all that talent they would have more than one trophy. Why do people keep blaming the manager? They had more intelligent managers before and those guys couldn't win either. A good coach can bring the individuals together and build a great team,but when you lack the talent, it does not matter who your coach is.

Last edited by Sleeper000 on November 14th at 11:43 AM.

verbal97
Nov 14, 2007
11:43 AM
Gerrard's comment was extremely dumb...
English players by squad (off the top of my head):
Arsenal - 1 (no, I'm not including Hoyte or Djourou)
ManU - 7
Liv - 4
Chel - 6

Again, that's off the top of my head. Liverpool isn't far behind Arsenal in lack of English players, so Stevie G needs to shut his trap. Is it possible that his wife is the smart one in that house?!

verbal97
Nov 14, 2007
12:01 PM
getz...

All Euro XI:

Cech
Lahm
Vidic
Nesta
Ramos
Ronaldo
Pirlo
Fabregas
Malouda
Klose
Henry

Subs: Buffon, Puyol, Materazzi, Deco, Gerrard, Ibrahimovic, Toni

All PL XI:

Cech
Richards
Vidic
Carragher
Evra
Ronaldo
Gerrard
Fabregas
Essien
Drogba
Tevez

Subs: Reina, Lescott, Agger, Giggs, Lampard, Adebayor, Rooney

So, I have 1 English player on an all European squad of 18 and 6 on a premier league squad of 18...and it takes 3 licks to get to the center of Tootsie Pop.

atleti
Nov 14, 2007
12:11 PM
Atleti signed a pre-contract with Ghana starlet Sadick Adams. The next Drogba, maybe? Could be!

First African signing in a very, very long time.

albertagooner
Nov 14, 2007
12:24 PM
Rather than U.S. basketball, I see a better parallel between the Three Lions and Canada's national hockey team. You see the same sense of entitlement for success, the same anti-foreign bigots in the media (including overhyping homegrown talent and applying similar hackneyed cliches to Europeans) and the same realization from astute hockey people about the need to incorporate Selannes, Forsbergs, Lidstroms, Gaboriks, etc. into their teams. Canadian hockey has been forced to improve itself after falling well behind Europeans in the 70s, 80s and 90s despite no end of ####ing about how Europeans were stealing positions from Canadian players. Now our national team is stronger for it.

getz76
Nov 14, 2007
12:27 PM
verbal,

Thanks for the playing. :)

My Euro would not be so different. I think I would start Toni over Henry at this point. Cech vs Buffon? A toss up, but how could you lose?

For the EPL, for the English: I think Richards is too unproven at this point (looked miserable against Chelsea). Same with Lescott. I think there are better than Carragher in the league, but I do think he's the best English CB.

Interesting. Imagine Tevez/Drogba on the same squad. Oof-ah, a defense's nightmare.

CIAO
Nov 14, 2007
12:54 PM
MasMaz

you said "ENgland have as least as much talent as either RUssia or Croatia. What they don't have is hunger, team spirit or a manager with any tactical ability."

England: McClaren
Russia: Hiddink
Croatia: Slaven Bilic

Bilic doesn't have much experience as McClaren; however you would never know by the way his team plays. Then there is Hiddink, what has McClaren done to even hold a candle to Hiddink? Hiddink is particularly know for his tactical abilities as well as building team spirit and hunger in the players. It appears that Bilic does the same. So can you say the same about McClaren?

I hope your post was a sarcastic one and that you really don't beleive your statement.

therealrico
Nov 14, 2007
1:00 PM
Alberta except Canada learned from it, while England seems to have not yet figured it out

albertagooner
Nov 14, 2007
1:06 PM
A couple more quick points. It's interesting to see Canada's national hockey team struggle whenever the world championships and Olympics are held outside of North America. The game is played on a larger ice sheet and referees tend to call contact a little more closely than the NHL.

The same applies in international basketball, which is a slightly more technical, less physical game than the NBA.

The Three Lions might suffer internationally in part because the Premiership "rules" and style of play doesn't work in the European and international arena . . .

getz76
Nov 14, 2007
1:10 PM
Ciao,

I think you read MasMaz's statement incorrectly; you appear to be agreeing with him.

albertagooner
Nov 14, 2007
1:11 PM
. . . having said that, I think it's a very damning comment made by Steve Coppell, who applauded Arsenal's style of play against Reading but pointed out it wasn't very "English" and hinted that's why Arsenal didn't have any domestic talent. Great football is great football -- Liam Brady's academy is now turning out London kids that can play like that. In the past, Ashley Cole slotted nicely into the Arsenal system that produced similar football. I think Wayne Rooney and Micah Richards could play in the Arsenal style, too.

davard
Nov 14, 2007
1:36 PM
Last games of the "Big 3" and their lineups.

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Anderson, Hargreaves (Carrick 77), Giggs, Tevez, Saha (Nani 68).
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, O'Shea, Fletcher.

Who's English: Brown, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Carrick (sub) - Max 3 on field at once.

Liverpool: Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Hyypia, Aurelio, Benayoun, Mascherano (Lucas 81), Gerrard, Riise (Babel 62), Voronin (Torres 70), Crouch.
Subs Not Used: Martin, Finnan

Who's English: Carragher, Gerrard, Crouch (maybe Lucas?) - 3 on field at once

Arsenal: Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy, Eboue, Fabregas, Flamini, Rosicky (Walcott 83), Hleb (Diarra 79), Adebayor (Bendtner 83).
Subs Not Used: Lehmann, Silva.

Who's English: Walcott (sub) - 1 on field

Who Cares: Not me.

I want to see Tevez and Rooney play together! I want to see Torres and Gerard link up! I want to see high speed Hleb-Rosicky-Walcott! Everyone benefits.

Good players make other players better. National teams suffer because they all play different systems with their club teams. Defense (like when Ferdinand and Campbell were a rock in '02 WC) usually can play better due to tactical similarities, but it's the offensive interplay where teams (poignantly England) usually suffer.

That's my sweeping Generalization of the day.

craigy_f
Nov 14, 2007
1:39 PM
It’s like this, you can’t compare football to hockey or basketball in any way.
England expects to win because it is OUR game. See the way we got stuffed by Hungary wayback when, England though it inconcievable that any other nation could beat us at OUR OWN SPORT!
1966 – we had all the advantages:-
Home field
A strong team
A good manager
A brilliant Queen! (she’s still around by the way!)
No instant replay :P

1996 – we still had some of those advantages
Home field
A strong team
A good manager
A Brilliant Queen! (ma’am!)
We managed the SFs and then sacked our manager?????

Whilst other nations have fostered the development of young players and created effective organizations from the grass roots to the national team (Argentina, Brazil, France, Italy, Holland, Germany) England has rested on it’s laurels.
Five years out of Europe mad a bad situation even worse and we have yet to take a good look at our own house and get it in order.
Our FA is weak, spineless and clueless.
Our grassroots is disjointed or nonexistent
Our League is disjointed (the gap between the Premier League and everything else)
The strength of the Premier League is in part due to it’s foriegners.
Anyone talking of quotas is an ####.
Gordon Brown - FU. CK OFF! what does a scotsman care about English Football!
Take Vialli, Zola, Gullit away from Chelsea and they might still be a middle of the table team.
A snapshot of English Football sees no immediate benefit to the Premier League clubs to develop strong English players from an early age through a structured, nationwid

therealrico
Nov 14, 2007
1:44 PM
Craigy I feel like you just proved my point, football is Englands game, that is the way alot of americans feel about basketball, and why we make excuses about losing other than maybe the other team was better.

craigy_f
Nov 14, 2007
1:44 PM
A snapshot of English Football sees no immediate benefit to the Premier League clubs to develop strong English players from an early age through a structured, nationwide and well organized structure. That would require an investment the Premier League isn’t interested in. Individual clubs may have good youth development but it’s not for the benefit of English football, it’s for the benefit of the clubs themselves.

Until The Premier League, The FA, and the other divisions in English Football work out a structure to foster the development of English players and all invest their time, money and effort into it English football will remain second tier.

That said we have qualified for EVERY major tournament since 1994 (that’s one every two years) and the last three tournaments we made the QF and got knocked out on PKs twice.
So the record of England is actually pretty good.

“30 Years of Hurt” is a lyric in a football anthem, from Euro ‘96. Expectations in England for a major tournament usually exceed our actuall skill. Having high expectations is not actually a bad thing, English football just doesn’t seem to be able to undergo the self – examination and overhaul that it’s structure needs to move up to the first tier of world football.

Any non Englishman/woman discussing English Football will miss on the heart aspect of how I or my fellow countrymen may feel, just as I couldn't get how Atleti may feel about her Argentinean football. But that lack of an emotional aspect makes the observations interesting.

Does that do you Rico?

LGB - I've never ad

craigy_f
Nov 14, 2007
1:46 PM
Amerei la squadra italiana di gioco del calcio per battere la squadra footbal scozzese il sabato!

craigy_f
Nov 14, 2007
1:49 PM
RRico - basketball : aren't the the rules a just a tad different in Europe than the US.

Football's rules the same for everyone globally.

I won't offer excuses as to why England don't win stuff in Football (although many may though). We're shiite isn't an excuse it's a lamentable statement of fact.

Last edited by craigy_f on November 14th at 1:54 PM.

foxcube
Nov 14, 2007
1:56 PM
I think Coppell is right about Arsenal's style and players. since the key for them to win is possession AW needs to find players good with keeping the ball and found very few English players capable of that. (Arsenal's style has become more "European" a.k.a. slower with more possession recently.) Not that the English players are necessarily not good enough for Arsenal but not enough for playing the style. They have to count on Brady's English kids to vindicate the club. Will they succeed?

On the other hand, the quota system would be ridiculous. If English players are good, you'd see some of them drafted by foreign clubs but this is not happening. The top EPL clubs certainly don't want to lose their competitive edge. The global scouting system parallels to the "outsourcing" concept in the business world.

MasMaz
Nov 14, 2007
2:00 PM
LGB- I used be a B-ball fanatic. I used to play every weekend and watch all the time. I went to Arizona, previously the basketball dynasty of the west, Lute is sadly past it.

Now not so much NBA. Before this ref scandal I could have told you the NBA was rigged. I remember it like yesterday, Lakers/Nets, Shaq spins Mutumbo holds his ground gets and elbow to the chest then an elbow across his jaw- tweet- Foul and the basket- RIDICULOUS. It has been that way since I can remember I just can't watch anymore, that and the last 2 minutes lasting 20 in real time.

However when its a good flowing game with great artists its the closest thing to the beauty of Football.

LetsGoBuffalo
Nov 14, 2007
2:03 PM
craigy-what did you say to me?

Davard-Lucas is Brazilian

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