It looks as if the Heskey and Owen partnership has reached the iconic stage. The statistic of 14 goals in 14 starts or 12 starts together (and that was before Russia and Israel) crops up in almost every article about them. It seemed to me that given that both of these players started their careers in the late nineties and that Owen has 85 caps and Heskey 45 that 12 or 14 starts together seemed very low. I might be missing something (and it certainly becomes difficult to track appearances because of substitutions) but this is what I have come up with in terms of starting together and goals.
Russia Sept 12/07 Owen 2, Heskey 0. Israel Sept 8/07 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Croatia Aug 20/03 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Serbia & Mont. June 3/03 Owen 0, Heskey 0. South Africa May 22/03 Owen 0, Heskey 1. Liechtenstein Mach 29/03 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Slovakia Oct 12/02 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Portugal Sept 7/02 Owen 0, Heskey 0. Brazil June 21/02 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Denmark June 15/02 Owen 1, Heskey 1. Nigeria June 12/07 Owen 0, Heskey 0. Argentina June 7/02 Owen 0, Heskey 0. Sweden June 2/02 Owen 0, Heskey 0. Cameroon May 26/02 Owen 0, Heskey 0. South Korea May 21/02 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Italy March 27/02 Owen 0, Heskey 0. Albania Sept 5/01 Owen 1, Heskey 0. Germany Sept 1/01 Owen 3, Heskey 1. Greece June 6/01 Owen 0, Heskey 0. Mexico May 25/01 Owen 0, Heskey 0.
I make that 20 starts together with Owen scoring 13 and Heskey 3. Still a decent strike rate but not what has been widely reported. In all it appears to me that they have played in 32 games together although they may not have been on the park at the same time when one has replaced the other. I used the FA archives as a source and I would be more than happy to admit an error if someone can come up with support for the 14 goals in 14 or 12 starts statistic. I did rattle this off quickly.
I think what is lost on people is that apart from goals scored, the Heskey/Owen duo allows England to play the bruising football that is the natural game for the English. It helps them in every aspect as they feel they have a focal point up front to organize around.
Maybe ENgland should forget about playing pretty football and just play tough, competent, and relentless football.
Very interesting Weekend all big four teams face matches that they could easily lose or tie.
For Arsenal this is a huge game, they haven't won an away game in there last 6 games a win at White Heart would really help.
So happy Sendorous is suspended coz I think Berbartov would have destroyed him. Who plays next to Kolo will be key. I see Helb and Cesc having big games. I hate going against Lennone why couldn't he miss 1 more match.
I never said they played pretty football, it certainly seemed like they lost their identity and were trying to play a more dainty less physical style. But you back up my point Gonga, England were reading their own press, hence auto-biographies written of people in their mid-twenties, they seemed to believe they were super skilled footballers. Heck Lampard thought he was going to Barca.
Last edited by MasMaz on September 14th at 11:43 AM.
Wow, why haven't Sven and McLaren continued with this striker pair until now? England might've gone much further. It's so difficult to find a striker pair that clicks -- look at France, good strikers available but no good pairings.
Anybody think that Big Sam might put Heskey on his shopping list come January? :-)
Fun to watch the almost prescient level of understanding between the two. But it didn't stop there. Heskey showed great vision in bringing the wings into play as well. He's made people stop and think!
I think the 14 goals in 14 starts is about the number of times they have started games together as a strike partnership. There were a couple of years where Sven used Heskey to solve the "problem left wing" position, so in those games he wasn't up front with Owen. Allowing those games to "not count" for the purpose of this wonderful statistical analysis.
No T - good point. I went back and checked the line ups for each of the games that Heskey might have played on the left side of midfield. According to England Football On Line that happened on four occassions. That means I can account for 13 goals in 16 starts together up front rather than 14 in 14 or 14 in 12. I wonder what the Owen ratio is with other players he has started with up front?
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on September 14th at 7:43 PM.
Just to be fair, do you happen to know against which sides these starts were against?
I mean, you could take a random strike pair, and hypothetically have the best partnership based on pure goals scored... But 10 against San Marino, and 0 against Sweden, might also skew that stat and make it look better than advertised...
Arsenal go top with a game in hand on ManU and Chelsea!
Great game, wasn't happy with the subs bench makeup especially after going down 1 but Ade (2 goals both great) and Fab(great shot from distance) pulled it out. Gunners really don't look like the team some people were pegging to fall out of the top 4.
What a sad game for Spurs. So many times they could have put the game away. In the end, Arsenal desired the win. That shot from Fabregas was wonderful. Though, Arsenal need to clean up their defense. They gave so many chances to Spurs and were lucky Spurs failed to capitalize. Very entertaining game.
great derby win for the arse! a bit shaky in the back, but when gallas is back should be straightened out.
again the gunners created countless chances with their creative attacking brand of football, and are beginning to match that with some wonderful finishing. lets keep it going!
I think this bit in the BBC article hit the nail on the head:
"And having left Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel and Steven Gerrard on the bench - no doubt mindful of the midweek Champions League tie with Porto - Benitez clearly took a gamble that did not pay off as his team failed to score for the first time this season."
Champions League once again takes precedence over the PL. Slightly understandable, but probably extremely frustrating for the supporters.
Positives: Ade haters will be quite for afew days after the show he put out today. hope it gives him confidence.
Cesc Fabulous that all I can say. MasMaz do u still think he is an overated mid and we should get Deco. Kolo Toure is irreplacable will miss him like crazy in Jan.
Great Team Spirit shown once again.
Negatives: Van. P. Was useless. Needs to learn how to use his right a little bit more.
Gilberto didn't look that good but he did his best the flight really to a toll on him. Wenger should see that we need another defender.
Anywas hope the boys keep it up. Seville up next can't wait.
Chelski where played by the Linesman that was a clean goal, but they got lucky against liverfools so it just karma.
Tottenham should be worried that the 16m strikers can't score even when left 1-on-1 with not only the goalie but a defender. Jol should give Defeo a chance. This game should have had 10 goals had both teams taken all their chances
The top 4 is back to how it's likely going to be so lets see how it stays in the next 5 games where there are alot of big matches starting next week.
rvp is nnot useless but is such an individualistic player that if the team is not built around him as clearly its not he always seems to be out of games, l remember the qualifers b4 he was injured when van bbasten had the team around him he were maverlous.l still think we deserve to be top since l think we have been the best team in the prem so far.l heard liverpool fans saying on a talkshow oh no rafa did not start gerrard, and torres and babel we have lost the leauge, and even if they had started fratton park is probably harder to get a result than white hart lane, whilist l agree than livepool looked good against sunderland and derby reds fans forgot that these were poor teams and to judge torres on these teams is wrong, he scored a great goal against chelsea but so did sheva against you, give the guy time, l still think liverpool will be up there but guys do not pannic.guys do you remember what jose said when styles gave a false call, and now it comes to haunt them, mourinho manipulates the situation to cover up that chelsea were really poor and hardly created clear cut chances
OK- I am now almost a full believer in Cesc, he is one tough little SOB.
I'll admit I was wrong about Cesc, but I was right about Flamini, he is a very good player, good at everything: tough tackler, good passer, knows how to play in Wenger's system. He is better than Gilberto at this stage in his career. Gilberto made a couple of mistakes, he also made 2-3 really good plays.
For a blog that is all too frequently filled with “gushing” about the neon Chel$ki; things are happily very quite in that department.
Admittedly they were robbed a goal by the insane decision of the linesman. If Joselito can have a handheld match video viewer why can’t the fourth official? Tradition? Or is it the old and boring interrupt of play argument.
In this case the match referee team, and by default the FA, look stupid no matter the reasoning. In situations like this I would think the officials are obligated in admitting their error and awarding the goal. All of which could have been done in two minutes in a pitch side conference and video review.
Come on FA get with the times and stop being the laughing stock, there is too much at stake here.
Despite several fluffed chances the Gunners were able to prevail at White Hart Lane. I think they should have had five. Cesc was outstanding, VanP was ineffective and Gilberto scared the #### out of me. Let’s hope we can hold on to the top spot and surprise the so called experts.
Who would have thunk Tottenham would be looking at relegation? No worries though as Martin Jol has the kiss of death and full backing of the chairman. His job is safe: Right!
He brings in half a dozen new players and unlike the usual argument about time needed for bedding in; this squad is expected to produce immediate results. More boardroom/fan stupidity and desire for instant gratification.
nice job Bobby !
so many articles tipped Heskey and Owen to
shine in the future,and I agree with this.
Early this century,their partnership is not
good in Liverpool,but in national team with
different styles and thinkings, it's workable.
I like these articles, and myself a blogger
for World soccer too, written in traditonal
Chinese so just click the link for browsing,
few weeks after I will put english articles
on...
h14 I never said RVP is usless I said he was usless in that game. He needs to find a way to bring himself into the game. I think what he should try and do more is make foward runs instead of coming back all the time to get the ball. We have great passers of the ball if he makes that ran he'll get the ball kind of like Ade does and Henry used to do.
MasMaz thank you for ur admintance in on Cesc, and I agree with you Flamini is proving to be better than I thought he was. I personally didn't want him to leave coz I like his work ethic and his versitility but he's proving to be even better.
The Arsenal-Seville game is one match you won't want to miss this week. Both teams are very fun to watch hope they put out a good show and Arsenal wins.
I think Benitez will coach himself out of a Premiership title with his current strategy. You have to play your best team and let the eventual injuries and schedule force you to rotate everyone in. Between the Prem, FA cup, Champs League and Carling cup theres enough fixtures to work everyone in eventually.
Cesc is making me very happy right now to say the least. I was afraid he might stop developing and only pan out as a play maker but 5 goals this season already is proving his potential is the sky. Flamani also is showing real signs that he is good enough for a first team place for the future. Wenger has really forced him to show and prove with so much competition within the squad and hes not backing down.
The sad thing watching the Liverpool-Pompey game was that even though it was evenly matched, the best chances fell to the home side.
Its one game after an international break with a champions league coming up in mid-week. Not too worried about the rotation policy.
Watched the Arse game as well, lucky to run out winners but thats the kind of game you need to win to win the title. Berbatov, Keane and Bent(x2) must be kicking themselves.
Mas where did Flamini prove you right? He's still second rate. Cesc though is going to be a monster in five years, absolutely brilliant goal. And what can you say about that second strike from Adebayor? Pure class.
Didn't see the Chelsea game (tailgating for the UCF-Texas game) but glad it finished 0-0. To the Chelsea supporters, we'll gladly let you have that goal if you take away FF's goal.
makes me wonder what arse game you were watching lgb or how drunk were u? in an away derby against your bitter rivals in which you enjoy 60% of the posession, create twice as many chances and score 3x as many goals hardly consitutes what you term a "lucky to win". may wanna re-rack the dvr.
as far as telling the arse what it takes to win the title, were you even born when liverpool last won one? how would you know?
your comments about cesc just keep getting sillier and sillier. you do have me worried about your rating of flamini, as liverpool is stocked with 2nd rate players that is for sure one thing you can #### with some degree of familiarity.
Oh-What game were you watching? It should've been three-nil before Arsenal scored their first. Seriously, get out with some arse supporters and even they will tell you the same. I was watching with a bunch here in Orlando, Fla.
As for Fabregas? I gave him a compliment...IN fact I was the one defending Fabregas all summer from all you Arse supporters.
And finally to Flamini the only club that wants him is Brum. Enough said.
I don't need to respond about Liverpool because at the moment we're sitting pretty at third only two points behind you.
NO RINGO YOU ARE NOT!
He has been by far the best referee I've seen in the Premier league this year.
Bobby -
When England play Donkey(Heskey) they boot the ball long as a preference. This works against the weaker teams in the world, Russia, Israel, etc But look at their record in the last 02 when it really counted.
When Heskey plays on the wing as a makeweight winger he is taking the place of someone much better and more skilled than he is.
MAZ MAZ, Heskey is a Donkey and shouldn't play for England.
Hello,is it fair to say that Kaka is the best player in world in comparison to Ronaldinho after one very good season? We are talking about the two time world player of the year in Ronaldinho? I just wanted to know your thoughts on this as is something that as of recently i'm hearing, also where does Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo fit into this debate?
Last edited by bittermb on October 12th at 10:24 PM.
I am the soccer analyst for the Fox Soccer Report and appear twice a week - every Monday and Friday at 10:00 EST. I have also been a regular contributor to the Fox Soccer Channel website since the summer of 2004. Over the last twenty years I have contributed to various radio and television programs throughout North America as well writing about the game for newspapers, magazines and websites.
Thank you to all who take time to visit this blog and especially to those of you who post your comments and thoughts.
PS - If you have questions please post them on the regular Monday blog. I am unable to answer e mails posted to the inbox on this site.
And one more thing. If you have questions or complaints or compliments about programming please contact Fox Soccer Channel or Fox Sports World Canada directly. I have no control over what the stations televise.
