It has become a summer ritual - the departure of another member of the Arsenal side that went undefeated while winning the Premiership title in 2004. Since the summer of that year Sol Campbell, Ashley Cole, Robert Pires, Lauren, Edu, Ray Parlour, Sylvain Wiltord and Patrick Vieira have all left for new pastures while Dennis Bergkamp chose the end of the 2006 season as the time to retire. And now, the man who over the last eight seasons has been the brightest of all the Arsenal stars, has also left the club.
With Thierry Henry leaving Arsenal to join Barcelona only four players (Lehmann, Toure, Gilberto Silva and Ljungberg) remain from the accepted starting eleven from thirty-six months ago. Reaction from Arsenal fans to the latest departure will be interesting to say the least with initial indications being a clear polarization of views.
One group seeing Henry’s departure for $33M as being a piece of good business for a soon-to-be 30-year-old with a sciatic nerve problem that is likely to be a constant problem; the other group viewing it as the loss of another iconic player without an adequate replacement on the horizon.
Views on the subject are perhaps dependant on three key questions. 1. Should Wenger have tied harder to keep the 2004 team together and if so would Arsenal have collected more trophies by doing so?
Looking back on it the signs were there that rather than being the team to beat, the Arsenal team of 2004 was in fact at its peak and was heading down rather than going onto to dominate the Premiership and Europe. Roman Abramovich had already bought Chelsea and with Claudio Ranieri in charge Chelsea knocked Arsenal out of the Champions League at the quarter final stage in 2004. Manchester United put Arsenal out of the FA Cup around the same time.
Wenger did in fact maintain the core team (Edu, Wiltord and Parlour had only started 37 games in total the previous season all left Highbury after the 2004 season) for the 2005 season. The FA Cup was won and Arsenal finished second to Chelsea in the Premiership. But, was at that point that Arsene Wenger decided his team needed to be rebuilt. All the evidence points to the fact that just one season after going a complete league season unbeaten Arsenal was in decline.
2. How do the replacements stack-up against the 2004 squad in the short and long-term?
Although Cesc Fabregas was on the Arsenal squad the year before Patrick Vieira’s move to Juventus it is fair to consider Fabregas as the Frenchman’s replacement. The same would be true for Clichy and Ashley Cole. The others would be Van Persie, Adebayor, Hleb, Rosicky, Gallas and Eboue.
In the short term only Emmanuel Eboue has slipped seamlessly into the Arsenal first eleven while replacing Lauren. Clichy is almost a clone of Cole and in another season or two he may match the now-Chelsea full back.
Van Persie has shown hints that he has what it takes to become one of the world’s best strikers but last season he started less than half the Premiership games last season through injury.
Adebayor is no Dennis Bergkamp and was never intended to be. In fact Wenger wisely chose not to look for a direct replacement for the iconic-Dutchman and instead opted for a different look up front. Adebayor has proven extremely effective at providing Arsenal with a long-ball option but it is doubtful that Togo striker will be ever be a consistent starter at a top class club.
The jury is still very much out on Alexander Hleb although Rosicky made a promising start to his Arsenal career last season. In defence William Gallas was another who missed a good chunk of last season through injury. Even then a good number of his games at the start of the season were at left back.
When he played in his favoured position at centre back the Arsenal defence often looked less than convincing when high ball were played into the box. Gallas maybe one of the world’s best defenders but the partnership with Toure may not be the best answer for Arsenal.
Finally back to Fabregas. An incredible talent that Wenger has decided to rebuild is midfield and team around. But he is still very much a work-in-progress. (Fabregas could have been playing at the FIFA Under-20 World Cup this summer). At this stage in his development Fabregas can’t carry the kind of load that Vieira could but in the long term the youngster could become one of the world’s great players.
3. Does Wenger dip into transfer kitty to replace Henry and if so who does he sign?
Wenger has no option but to sign a new striker or probably two. With Van Persie and Adebayor the only front line strikers Arsenal is badly exposed at this point. The young Mexican striker Carlos Vela is only 19 and it is unlikely that he will arrive at the Emirates until sometime next year – probably the summer. So who will Wenger go after?
If you were to create an identikit of Henry’s replacement it might look something like this. Under 26 years-old with his best days ahead, international experience, comfortable on the ball, good in the air and with the potential of 20-30 goals per season. A player like that is going to cost a few bucks but with $33m from the sale of Henry plus whatever other money is in the kitty already, Arsenal should be able to afford the asking price.
First off who does this exclude? Michael Owen for starters, as well as Miroslav Klose and Nicolas Anelka – although I admit that the return on Anelka might be intriguing it may also be a bit masochistic as far as the Arsenal brass is concerned. David Trezeguet also fails the identity parade.
Adriano might be available but who knows where his head is at. David Villa of Valencia apparently wants to stay in Spain although with Barcelona now top heavy in strikers the Nou Camp appears to be out. Ryan Babel (Ajax) is a name that has been linked with Arsenal in the past although he has yet to show that he is capable of scoring goals at a rate that Arsenal would expect.
The one player that seems to tick all the boxes is Atletico Madrid’s Fernando Torres. To land Torres Arsenal may have to outbid Liverpool but they may have a potential ace up their sleeve. Arsenal still own Jose Antonio Reyes and he might be dangled in front of Atletico in order to seal the deal.
I think it's good business for Arsenal to sell Henry at that price. I doubt they'll be able to replace him with another star striker without spending cnsiderably more than what they just received. Similar situation Milan are still in since selling Sheva. Atletico still value Torres at 40 million euros which is very inflated considering his sub-par last couple of seasons.
I think if Arsenal can land one or a couple from the likes of Gudjohnsen, Anelka, Huntelaar, etc they would be in decent shape.
This trade has also fuelled rumors that Wenger may also be on his way out of Arsenal, possibly following Henry to Barca who are keen on a major turnover following a dissappoining season.
The metaphors leap to mind when considering Henrt's exit from Arsenal. But first, the assessment that the Arsenal side of 2004 was the team at its peak is absolutely correct. One thinks of Camelot and the knights of the Round Table, or of the Three Musketeers if one wishes to apply a not inappropriate French prism through which one can view the team. In both works we are given a glimpse of an imperfect world and a vision of what can help make it beautiful. The Arsenal side of 2004 didn'n necessarily play football the way it ought to be played--there is no one way to play the game. The Arsenal side of 2004 gave us a view of the way it CAN be played and entrhalled us all in the process. With Henry's departure, Mordred has vanquished Arthur and Merlin has been locked in the Crystal Cave leaving us only a thrilling memory. But what a memory.
VVV- how can you say 16M pounds is good business, when Milan got 30M for Sheva? Without rcieving Saviola, Giuly, or Gudjohnsen also that was terrible business at that price.
HENRY WILL BE MISSED ,THE SAME WAY WE HAVE MISSED ALL THE OTHER PLAYER, BUT THE TRUTH IS HOW MANY OF THESE EX-GUNNER HAVE MADE A VERY GOOD START TO THERE NEW CLUB ,(STOP AND THINK) NONE ,OK.LETS CHANGE THAT TO (1) ONE WILTORD AT LYON , ALL THE OTHER HAVE BEEN POOR ARE HAVE SOME INJURY PROBLEM. THE NEXT ONE IS CAMPBELL WHO AS NOT PLAYED TOO BAD FOR PORTSMOUNT, BUT THAT IS PORTSMOUNT ANY DEFENDER WOULD LOOK BETTER THAN WHAT THEY HAD BEFORE.EDU SHOULD I EVEN BOTHER TO TALK ABOUT HIM ,HE AS BEEN IN BED AT VALENCIA FROM HE GOT THERE ,REYES IF HE DOESNT RETURN TO ARSENAL HIS NEXT STOP WILL BE ATLETICO B ARE ANPOLI (ITALY B).I BELIEVE THAT ARSENE WILL MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION FOR ARSENAL NEXT SEASON STARTING WITH WHO TO BRINGING TO STRENGHT NOT REPLACE.WE WILL DO IT THE SAME WAY MAN UTY DID BUT BETTER .BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE CARRICK ,SCHOLES, GIGGS,RENOLDO,SAHA.THEN TELL ME WHY THEY WOULD TO REPLAY KEANE ,BECKHAN,VAN,ERIC,AND ALL THE PLAY THEY LOSE.SO I SAY THIS TO ALL FOOTBALL FAN DONE ASK OUR CLUBS FOR REPLACEMENT BUT TO THINK HARD AND MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION AND STRENGHEN THE TEAM IN THE RIGHT AREAS
MasMaz,
Chelsea paid WAY TOO for Sheva. I can understand if Chelsea were to pay that much when he was in his prime. It would be nice to have a billionaire as your team owner and buy any player you want.
But back to TH, I think TH made the right move. Arsenal aren't going anywhere soon, and he's joining a team with a lot of talent and turbulence. If Barca can find the right coach, they'll be an unstoppable team. I would really like to see Wenger join Barca. I think his style of play would match Barca. I’m sure we would see some beautiful footie.
The loss of TH-14 is bigger for the premiere league than for arsenal. He has been hands down the best player ever in the league, and has done it with style and grace and class that will be sorely missed.
For arsenal, his value began to diminish when he assumed the captaincy from Viera. His best was when he didnt have that responsibility and could just be the world's best player, as he was earlier this decade.
I dont believe you replace players like him, your club evolves, develops, changes and either strengthens or weakens. Wenge, while not the best game tactician, is the best in squad management and development and seems to be heading into year 3 of a 4 year plan. His record of when to bring in and when to offload speaks for itself.
I dont know the exact figures, but arsenal were the 2nd highest scoring team last year, while getting rubish finishing and a small contribution from TH, they should do just as well if not better this year. Their biggest weakeness were defensive organization, too often looking a bit weak kneed in the back.
With another year under their belt, a bit more mental toughness and development, some imporved finishing and organization in the back, I wouldnt be at all surprised to see the gunners right back fighting for trophies this year.
spot on assessment of arsenal by bobby. the search for his replacement will require inventiveness as well as intuitiveness, wenger (if he stays at arsenal) has shown this ability in the past, can he do it again?
to me, tevez seems like a great choice, young, passionate, capable, driven, clinical.
villa would do the job as well.
torres seems a gamble, at big events, club or country, torres has been either torrid or terrible, hell of a risk when trying to replace 20+ goals per season henry...
Bobby, great article. I must say this was a good move by Arsenal...painful but savy. As for Barcelona....why? It was obvious that their backline needed some help and maybe even a strong defensive midfielder to help out. I don't understand why they go for Henry when their attacking 1/3rd is the best in the world. Barcelona had saviola to help if someone went down and Gudjohnson is still able to put a few in the net ( I prefer Saviola to Gudjohnson though). To me Barcelona is the one who should be asking questions not Arsenal.
Bobby, Am I right on this? What do you think? Why didn't Arsenal keep Baptista? The Torres for Reyes is great insight.
It's a different situation than when Milan sold Sheva. Sheva was arguably at the peak of his career and Milan wanted him to stay but the player requested the transfer. It made sense for Milan to sell Sheva purely from a financial stand point. As Real's offer for Kaka approaches 100 million euros, I wonder when Milan will start considering the transfer.
I think Arsenal are resigned to losing Wenger in a year (possibly sooner), and Henry, at the latest in a couple of years. Fitness concerns are also starting to arise, and it's better to get something now than nothing later, especially if he plays partial seasons. Having said that, Henry still needs to pass the physical on Monday.
I agree that the price tag seems rather low, especially since Arsenal will spend more than half of it just to re-sign Anelka. I am surprised Wenger, who negotiated the transfer personally, didn't get any players like Giuly or Gudjohnsen in exchange. Maybe Wenger is looking after the interests of his next employer instead of his current one!!!
Last edited by Venti_vidi_vici on June 23rd at 3:27 PM.
VVV- the thought crossed my mind that Wenger was moving Henry first and then himself..
...But the more I think about it the more I believe this deal was done last year and the reverse was true that Henry did Wenger and Arsenal a huge favor by signing a long term deal before leaving. To think he could have left last year on a free. Arsenal fans should have respect and gratitude and wish Henry well as he has them. The fact is he is going to a bigger club who play beautiful football, a side that has the chance to be the best ever.
I agree that the biggest loser in all of this is the premiership. If they were to lose Wenger, Ronaldo, Tevez and Essien the EPL would be nothing but has beens and English players. Which would still be exciting, but without the edge of extreme quality that only diversity can bring.
As an Arsenal fan I can only hope for:
-Anelka or Torres
-Tevez
-a big proven center back
As long as they accomplish two of these things they should still push for 3rd easily and maybe make a run in the Champs league.
Ahh the end of an era for the gunners! TH has brought great success at Arsenal continuing a tradition of over 100 years of success. Arsenal, Londons biggest club, will not only survive but will flourish.
Arsenal were winning trophies before TH's grandfather and Wenge's Father were born, I suspect theyll carry on.
Agree they have a deep squad with the best of the young crop of talent ready to burst onto the scene. I hope moving out of the shadows and reliance on TH; Adebayor, RVP, Theo, Bentner Rosicky, Cesc, Diaby, Marouda, Hleb will all continue to get stronger mentally and grow in their games.
There are not many spaces open so whoever Wenge brings in has to be world class. I dont see a CB taking the place of either toure or gallas, eboue and clichy are set at the fullbacks. Senderos, Djouro and others provide cover.
By most assessments this lot had a terrible year and did finish level with pool, beating them 3 out of 4 times, beat Man Ure twice, and tied twice with the central Moscow circus of Maureen Ooooh, so dont bury this gunner squad just yet.
Bobby-I think you missed on the Adebayor comparison. You can liken him to Kanu when Wenger brought him to the club. Both African, tall and are great at holding up the ball. Kanu was never going to be first choice and neither is Adebayor. They were both brought in for back up.
I also got a question for you...What do you consider the better league: La Liga or EPL?
Last edited by LetsGoBuffalo on June 23rd at 4:53 PM.
I agree, the article was spot on in terms of replacing Henry. In addition to Torres I would view Carlos Tevez as someone who could also fill the role, if he intends to stay in England. I think the big question in all Gooner's minds is what will Wenger do. We already know he will stay this year, but what if he leaves. Great blog, love hearing you on the report.
I posted my thoughts on TH on this morning's blog. Bobby, your piece on the players is good stuff, but you didn't give your view on how all this is going to affect Wenger personally. I think Arsenal's next season hinges on what's going on in Wenger's head. I'd really like to hear your view.
Here's mine. With Dein and Henry gone he'll still do his "best", be professional etc., but that's not enough to win the league or UCL. There has to be a resigned atmosphere in the dressing room, knowing that the manager is waiting for the end of his contract and also because of the reason why Henry quit.
My reaction is that if he stays, Wenger will tell everyone that this is another rebuilding year and then leave having achieved that. (i.e. They'll win nothing). However, really I think that Henry leaving makes Wenger's position untenable. He has no leverage with the board now. They need a manager really wanting to make his mark in the world with Arsenal. The Arsenal board should let Wenger go immediately if they want something from next season. He deserves that. He had great success.
What do you think Bobby?
Last edited by LosAngelesChelseaFan on June 23rd at 5:29 PM.
I think people are too quick to link Wenger's future with Henry's departure. Wenger has shown in the past that he is a canny operator as far as his own contracts are considered. He knows that he gains leverage the longer he takes to commmit to a deal. More than a year out there is no way he is going to agree to a new deal. Someone will have to explain to me why they would think that a man who has spent the last few years building a global scouting system is going to #### it away because a 29-year-old player leaves.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on June 23rd at 5:41 PM.
Bobby l will always respect and love listening to you although l lost some cash on betting than henry will stay after following your wits.l feel your assesment on adebayor is far of the mark , if he had put away half his chances he could easily have scored 25 goals and hopefully he is young and can improve.rvp looks like he has 25 goals in him and l would prefer anelka back, because l honestly feel he is class and has pace and if l remember well wenger during his ten year anvesarry believed anelka was a more natural finisher than henry and his pace would be great.the problem with torres is he is expensive and it is still dificult to say he will have 30 goals even if he is reguarded as spain 's best young striker
I think it may be more a case of Henry left because Wenger is also leaving, rather than vice versa.
Wenger has done, and will continue to do, a great job at Arsenal which is what he is paid very well to do. Just because he is making a great effort to build the team for the future doesn't necessarily mean he will definately stay.
Great analysis Bobby and I might add a very classy postscript on the FSC TV report last night re: US-Canada. It could have degraded into a slagging match but you guys handled it with tact, great analysis and class.
For my money Henry was one of the reasons to watch the EPL. Like his countryman Cantona, you always knew that some magic was afoot. Being a Barca fan, I wonder how FR is planning to shuffle his attack to accomodate TH. He also needs to buy some defenders and a holding MF.
As for whom the Gunners will buy? I am not that sold on Torres, he seems a tad overrated and to be honest a bit of a moper when he doesn't get the ball. The pace of the EPL isn't kind to attackers that aren't "on" all 90.
I have many Gunner supporter mates in the UK and they are gutted. TH personified class most of the time and was arguably one of the the best strikers in the world the last 7-8 years.
Hey Bobby, people seem to have come full circle on Carlos Tevez in the last 10 momnths. Do you think he would fit in with the Gunners? Also do you think keeping Reyes is now a possibility.
I have one more thing to add to the onside/offside debate ,the rules need to be changed back to the way they always where ,if you`re in an offside position ,you`re offside ,or is that too simple?!
The offside rule is a very good rule, in theory, as it currently stands. Problem is it is very very difficult for match officials to call.
Every match has debatable offside decisions, and in big matches, as seen in the UCL final, they become big post match talking points and fodder for conspiracy theorists.
Unrelated, but I wrote an entry on Argentina's U-20 World Cup squad on my blog. It seemed better to write it up there than send it via email since it shares nothing new on the squad list.
Bobby,
How will Barca play Eto'o, Ronnie, Henry and Messi. Also, don't you think Barca's problem is the leaking defense? I think the only defenders in Barca are Zambrotta and Puyol.They need Abidal as a left back and someone in the center back. What do you think? Marquez, Gio and Thuram were a disaster?
Bobby,
Do you think Barca's midfied of Iniesta, Xavi and Deco is not physical enough to challenge a Emerson, Diarra or Patrick Vierra type Midfield presence? I love Xavi, Deco and Iniesta but I think they are not strong/physical enough. They are too small to cover enough ground or match the Seerdoff or Kaka type players? What is your opinion?
I think Miroslav Klose would be a good addition to the premiership, not just Arsenal. Arsenal needs to be more consistent. They have some great players but they are shadowed by a cloud of unsuccesful runs in both the FA Cup, Premiership, and the Champions League
Who would want Gudjohnsen. He is a complete hack, he showed several, very below par performances. I remember a comment made by a Gol TV announcer when Barcelona was getting spanked by Real Madrid earlier in the season. He said, when Gudjohnsen was subbed, "FINALLY, we have a game"
Last edited by Realfutbol47 on June 23rd at 8:06 PM.
I've been an Arsenal fan for the last 7 or 8 years, around the time I discovered English football and this i believe I followed the team with such a passion. I sat back and watched them week by week and whenever they were on FSC I watched all 90+ minutes all on the verge of a heart-attack unless we had a two-goal cushion in the 90th. As the season began I thought all was good, the long unbeaten streak at the Emirates was nice but i still couldn't get over the fact that one of the ten Man City home goals was at our expense but that's just a minor detail. As Henry and van Persie became injured and results didn't come I went into this state of confusion and the only way out of it was remembering the 4-0 win over Reading and not realizing that would be Henry's last memorable game for the club. The header against United still makes me smile. But to the point at hand. When I saw the headline of Henry's departure on the FSC website, I had lost all hope. The first thing that went through my mind was i hope West Ham stays up so all is good with Tevez- I mean look what he did for the Hammers. I suppose I've waited this long to get out my thoughts about the club. All I hope now is that Wenger stays and does his best to bring the best players to fill Henry's role, that's right I said players, one person can't fill that mans spot. I all goes wrong I might just have to defect to Spurs but i'd rather be on my death bed before i do that.
in my opinion the worst person to buy as a forward is owen, because is technically inferior, injury prone and is in those raul phases were he is already on the decline
Liverpool have more money than Arsenal, plus they are rumored to be dangling either Luis Garcia (I hope not) or Djibril Cisse. They're both different players to Reyes, but I still would have either of them over Reyes. Therefore, I seriously doubt Arsenal will be able to outbid Liverpool if that's the player Rafa wants.
If Henry passes the medical and signs he could make his debut on July 26 against Dundee United at Tannadice. The length that Barcelona will go to in order to finally beat Dundee United. Last four times they have played each other United has won each time. first in the old Fairs Cities Cup and then in the UEFA Cup.
Barcelona are setting up a pre season camp in St Andrews and are also scheduled to play Hearts a few days later.
Bobby or whoever can enlighten me, ManU is more debt-laden than Arsenal but spends more. I don't believe when they did the financing, the Arsenal board were so dumb they didn't set aside an annual transfer budget. Thus they have money to spend, more or less. I also read that the 16mil was agreed because Barca can pay up front quite a portion, which if true suggests the gunners are indeed poor. Does Wenger have funds at disposal as promised by his club or does he prefer not to spend it?
Foxcube - The information is contradictory and probably has more to do with whether or not the conveyor of the information is looking short or long term. Long term Arsenal can more than take care of their debt because it is investment debt. They have borrowed to construct an asset i.e. the stadium, that will produce more money than it costs. I have seen estimates of around $20M in additional income per year after servicing the debt. However, the long term looks at the complete project and as I understand it the development of Highbury for housing is included. The cash from that development does not come on stream until next year. You would think that this would have been anticipated and factored into the borrowing requirement. My bet is that it has and Wenger does have money to spend. Manchester United's debt is bad debt. Essentially the Glazers (and the Kroenke proposal is the same, as was Hicks & Gillete) bought Manchester United with the profits from future operations. They did not buy it with their money - unlike Roman. Kroenke coming in and providing a cash injection is a gross misrepresentation. All he would be doing is increasing the debt level and paying it off over an extended period of time. Something the current board has the power to do anyway. Glazer type buyouts benefit only one constituency - the shareholders who sell to the buyers.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on June 24th at 9:31 AM.
bobby,
i still can't understand why an unproven striker such a fernando torres keep popping up for arsenal , he isn't a prolific striker in spain and i have my doubts about him scoring 20-30 goals a season in the epl. the real answer for arsenal is klaas jan huntelaar a proven scoring threat , "the hunter "scored 37 goals in 48 appearances and has been the target of big clubs such as man u and juventus . 37 goals a season player is what arsenal needs and huntelaar is that guy, he might not ever score 37 goals in the epl but he will be consistently and 20-25 and maybe in a couple of years he will score 30 in a season because he is only 23 going 24.
Last edited by playking14 on June 25th at 12:31 AM.
playking14 - First off regarding YaYa Toure, you may be the first person I've read that has suggested that Arsenal has a problem in midfield. In terms of Huntelaar his stats are close to Kezman and Kuyt and neither player came close to being prolific in the EPL. Torres has scored around 2 goals every 5 games in a much tougher league and playing for a team that has generally been no better than mediocre in his time there.
Torres "an unproven striker" - hardly.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on June 25th at 5:23 AM.
neophyte and rt9724 - The conventional wisdom might be that Barca's defense is the problem but La Liga stats don't back it up. Barcelona finished tied with Getafe for the best defensive record - 33 against. There were only 8 occassions when Barcelona conceded more than one goal in a game. Barca also lost fewer games than any other team. The statistic that stands out is the number of draws.In the top ten only Zaragoza and Santander drew more games. Perhaps the thinking behind the Henry move is to have more ammunition in order to turn draws into wins.
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