Before we move on to the Milan – Manchester United second leg, I am surprised that I have not heard or read anything so far about Pepe Reina’s great penalty saving ability. This is a keeper who in 2004/05 saved seven of the nine penalties he faced while with Villarreal. Then last season he saved three out four spot kicks in the FA Cup Final.
I haven't checked the English-speaking press yet, but the Spanish press is raving about Reina. Both articles (on AS and MARCA) focused on his 'heroic' display. No group photos for the articles either-- simply photos of Reina celebrating!
It's a shame he's second banana to Casillas for the national team.
Last edited by atleti_female on May 1st at 8:56 PM.
This should be a great match. I would have thought Ferdinand would make it back before Vidic but having either one would be a big plus for United. I think if United can press the Milan backline that they will crumble again. They have not looked good in any competition this season when put under pressure.
If it is an all-English final, hopefully it will not be as dull as the all-Italian final from a couple of seasons ago. :)
Bobby you could have saved the penalties from chelsea they were that bad you knew that it was a matter of guessing the right direction.nomatter how fergie vows to attack we all seen this before that the team with the lead will always look to defend because if they score while you are attacking then the game becomes more open and away from home you will be screwed.l think milan are in good form , and why the hell they have giladino as a forward is beyond me he is a guy who shine with the likes of chievo.l would have fancied united if they were down and the match coming at old trafford, but united have not been that convining on the road and some results have flattered them when they played pooly and could be exposed in milan.
Bobby your response to my adebayor question was great l just wondered if you saw 30 goals in drogba in any of his previous two seasons.
Bobby your response would be appreciated because this topic almost got me a black eye.l was thinking that a couple of weeks ago you eluded to how villareal had been in free fall since that final and l thought it was due to the age of that team when they got that dissapointment, because the team that played arsenal over two legs had an average age of 31, and l compare it to chelsea who have a fairly older squad and the biggest question is how will this affect them together with the prem because they can go through the summer without making any changes , compare it to the last three years of man u not perfoming , you get the feeling that fergie had the age of his side , and he knew that hunger from rooney, vidic,ronaldo,evra was significant and you can say their cl disapointments for some time have brought a determination that we have not seen from the chelsea side in key times
henry14 - I don't think with Reina's penalty save % that he is a guesser. If he is he should be in Vegas. In terms of goals per year it is not something I think a lot about - without looking it up I could not tell you how many Drogba has actually scored this year. But Drogba had been scoring at a fair clip at Marseilles (around one every two games I think) so he had the numbers to indicate that he could become a world class striker. I don't think Adebayor has come close to one every two games in his club career - he is probably a one goal every three games type striker.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on May 2nd at 4:35 AM.
Bobby drogba had 32 goals in 108 matches for leman and giunkamp when he was between 21 and 25 and how that translates to a goal in every two games is beyond me , l know you are not cisse's biggest fan but his goals to gmes played even through injuries is amaizing 70 in 128 for auxuree, 25 in 44 for liverpool and 10 in 18 for LO'M just at the same age as drogba was at lemans and guinkamp
And how you translate my reference to Marseilles to become Le Mans and Guingamp beats me. If the 25 goals in 44 appearances for Cisse at Liverpool is right then statistics do most definitely not tell the truth.
According to the stats site that I normally use as a reference Cisse scored 13 goals in 49 Premiership appearances for Liverpool.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on May 2nd at 5:37 AM.
Great article by Giles Smith on Chelseafc.com,this morning.
Go to news..latest news..Giles Smith`s midweek view.
It made me feel a lot better,although I`m sure some of you...if you read it....will think it`s just sour grapes!
I was going to mention Reina's record, but you beat me to it. In an interview earlier this season, Reina indicated that he had a secret in how he seems to "guess right" at penalties (but of course didn't elaborate on what that secret was).
Anyway, I'll be much more relaxed when I watch today's game (odd how much less stressed I am when taking a penalty as opposed to watching others do it). Though, I don't agree with those of you that think it will be a more open game, especially if Milan score early.
I've read a lot of people say Milan will move on, and Bobby said a week ago, he believes it will be a Pool and Milan final. He got the first part right. But I think this game MAY be different. To me this is a toss up. After seeing what Man U did last weekend, coming back from two down at Goodison Park. They showed a never die attitude. At the same time, Milan showed the same characteristic when they played Bayern last round. I thought they would lose in Munich, instead they destroyed Bayern. Then you factor in Man U may play Vidic and Ferdinand, and Milan are at home but are without Maldini. I think the game is going to be tight and hopefully as entertaining as last week.
Interesting articles about the match today. Milan are a very ‘Italian’ side who will need to control the tempo of the match today. Keep possession and catch Man Utd napping, as they did in the first leg. Seedorf and Kaka’ have found a very good understanding of late, and will be key to reaching Athens. Man Utd are much more an ‘English’ side than the other semifinalists, so this one will again be a clash between two classic styles.
The weather in Milan today is stormy and heavy rain, so it’ll feel more like Manchester weather, and will definitely suit the visitor’s style.
I feel confident that Milan can prevail, because we’ve seen them win these matches so many times in the past. BUT, just like Sir Alex’s team, they will have to execute on the field, and ultimately that will determine the winner.
I was very impressed with Reina, he looked amazingly confident and Cech didn't. I always fnd it interesting that you can pretty much tell how penalties will go by body language. Reina looked strong and sure, very impresive. Cech is still the better keeper, he just didn't have it. I think you can probably improve in penalties with sheer mind power ie. visualization and concentration.
-Liverpool were the better side on the night as they actually created a few chances, Kuyt hit the cross-bar and scored an incorrectly nullified offside goal, plus Crouch's header.
- I refuse to give up blaming Mourinho and his use of Essien, without Ballack Essien should have been steaming up the middle. Bouhlarouz or Ferriera at CB and Geremi at right back. This would have eased up the pressure on Lampard who was admittedly terrible. I mean just to watch the way Essien powered forward once or twice gives a glimpse of what might have been. Remember 1 goal for Chelsea and the game is over. A collossal blunder to play it safe at Anfield and one that justifiably could cost him his job.
-To have a mercurial player like Robben lead off the kicks, what?? Is there a more unreliable player?
Mourinho has mouthed off so much he has no way out, and to say they were the better side is laughable. I don't want him to leave the league. He is a great manager but he blew it. If Roman sticks with him I will be impressed and maybe they can come together, I doubt it.
-Bobby, or anybody what is a good non-subscription site for stats??
-Bobby, yes stats can be misleading , and I have to disagree with about Cisse. This guy can score. You cite 13 goals in 49 games if you adjust that for minutes its 13 goals in around 30 EPL games, not bad, not bad at all and if you factor in that Rafa played him on the right wing, out of position more often than not. I think with age Cisse will learn to have a better demeanor as Drog has. A bit of maturity will do him good. I hope Pool let him go cheap so Arsenal can swoop for him. Remember Cisse is a champs league winner also.
-What makes me chuckle to myself is all this talk about goals to minutes and games and goals in all comps , and who is the best striker. Doesn't all this talk just make Henry's tallys over the last 5 years look more and more impressive. Then when you add in his assists, the argument is that there is no argument about who is the best, unless you mention Van Nistlerooy, whose rate is pretty darn good.
-Reina's house was broken onto last night. Same thing happened to Crouch apparently a gang of theives knows that everyone in Merseyside is watching the game.
RINGO: You’re never wrong with you’re predictions, right!?
Reina did a very good job during the penalty shootout yesterday, no question. Saving 2 of 4 attempts speaks for itself. The save on Robben was top class, but it was a case of guessing right. Geremi hit an awful penalty and Reina made him pay.
Cech tried to make saves and just could get to them, and Gerrard coolly sent him the wrong way.
Agger was probably man of the match for me, especially after having some blame on the goal in the first leg. He did a very good job on Drogba yesterday, and of course, scored the all important goal, and it was a good one too.
As for the great striker debate. I would say Henry is better than the rest because of his ability to create goals for himself out of nothing and to set others up as well. As for Cisse, I like him, but he's only got two moves when he gets the ball...one, knock it past a defender and try to use his pace to get past; two, hit the ball as hard as you can toward the goal and hope it goes in. He lacks composure, but that's something that can be worked on as one matures.
I think you guys are missing the point. In a fluid artistic game like soccer statistics are pretty hard to quantify and often have little real relationship to results or performance. Bobby actually touted Cisse over Drogba when they both came into the league but I can't imagine how you could possibly compare them now. Whatever amount of goals Cisse had he was never a real consistent goal scoring threat at Anfield and he was given plenty of time to settle. Also, never forget how different the forward positions are between the EPL and the continent. Many a successful forward from England struggled at Continental teams and more than a few successful forwards at major clubs in Europe have been wash-outs at EPL sides. The differences in style have been discussed here before. I would be careful in comparing stats between players in different leagues and especially between England and the mainland.
Stats also never seem to tell the whole story. Van Nistelrooy scored a heap of goals for Man United and as great as that was, I think most people would rather have their team get those goals from multiple sources on the team. That way if one source dries up there is another there to provide.
I agree with most of what you say MM. Reina has a good record but penalties were not well struck and they didn't use the power strikers. Presumably they have some competiton in training as to who should take them.
Even though Mourinho got the bonus of Ferreira having probably his best game, with Ballack missing he just had to give Essien an attacking role not trapped at CB. The reward of an way goal is huge over 120 minutes. Playing Jon Mikel (who had another good game) plus Maka (who didn't) compounded with ineffective play from Cole and Lampard (one trip to the Penaalty area) all added up to a sterile showing. Compare that to the second half attack at Valencia, where he threw everying on. I saw this as JMs first real tactical mistake. He said they attacked but they really didn't. In the last hand at the final table you have to put your money in the middle to win it. JM played small and lost
Bobby. What would you have done differently? Played a cautious team or gone full out for an away goal and a win?
Today? Unless something weird happens (in Italy, surely not) Man U will win this and then have a much easier game against Liverpool in the final.
Last edited by LosAngelesChelseaFan on May 2nd at 9:59 AM.
LACF, how can you say that Man United will have an "easier game" in the finals. Liverpool have outplayed Man U in 4 of the last 5 meetings, even if the results don't indicate that. Liverpool have beaten tougher opposition in this competition and in previous years than the United team that was just handed the league title by Moaninho. But I hope that if Man U get past Milan that they think as you do.
V97... Unlike others, I have no axe to grind against Liverpool or Man U. To mix a bunch of metaphors, the last game at Man U really reminded me of Ali fight with Man U hanging around on ropes "reading a book" then at the end they put down the book and wacked Liverpool to to the canvas without hardly breaking into a run. Liverpool, when on form, play some nice flowing physical English football just like they've always done. They introduced some skill players at the beginning of the year - you know who, but but they're not top class.
All in all Man U are a team that raised their level way more than almost all of us predicted last august (see the predictions) and sorry, V97 Liverpool are not in their class. (IMHO!)
PS. MM .. me too via the internet .. works very well
Last edited by LosAngelesChelseaFan on May 2nd at 11:07 AM.
Reina is an excellent keeper. Although, I'd have to look back, but I remember being a little disappointed with him at the beginning of the season, for the first 2 months or so.
I predict Milan wins 2-1 and advances to meet Liverpool in the final. Then, Liverpool takes it.
And, I am pulling for a City upset 2-1 (even without thug Joey) versus United. For City, keeping United from scoring is the easy part, finishing their own efforts is much more difficult.
Ok, we have a difference of opinion. After all, Liverpool are just "a little club". But certainly there can be no argument that the rift in class between the Milan and Liverpool sides in 04/05 is far greater than any perceived rift in class between Man U/Milan and Liverpool this season. Liverpool should not be taken lightly, especially with this manager in this competition.
I just remembered something else that will minorly upset the Chelsea contingent. Should Liverpool win the CL final they'll get automatic passage into the group stages, thus forcing Chelsea (if they don't have a miracle comeback in the title race) to play a third round qualifier. This would not be a small thing, as it's more difficult for a team to have the required great start in the league when preparations are interupted by the qualifiers.
@travel...you honestly think that Man City can score TWO goals. When's the last time they scored even 1 at home. It's been like 2 months or something.
I saw a bad sign for Man U just 20 secs into the game.
Ronaldo tried one of his party-piece,back-heel-flicks...he did the same against Middlesbrough two weeks ago with a 1-0 lead...I guess he thinks the game is over when he tries that!
Bobby, what is your take on this 4-5-1 formation. In place to keep scholes from too many risky tackles? Rooney is not a lone striker, ronaldo is better on the wing etc etc. No change at half nor at 80 min... AAARRRGGG third goal. Next year.
Next year?? United lucked out all year it finally caught up with them. If there is justice they will win nothing this year. Ronaldo needs to take some lessons from Kaka about how to play within a team. If this is the best the prem has to offer it is still far inferior to Italy and Spain. Rubbish.
Milan is the most deserving of all the teams in the semis. Apart from the bribes and all.
Fabulous display by Milan. Manu's shortcomings come to light.
Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes were hugely disappointing although IMHO Rooney was fouled in the box by Oddo. Oddo ran circles around Heinze. Kaka was magnificent as was Seedorf and Gattuso was superb.
From a tactical and skill level I hope Milan wins in Athens.
Congrats VVV.
Vidic was clearly not fit to play today, I think that was shown numerous times...
What I couldn't for the life of me figure out was, why were United so lackluster? Every time we (United) had the ball, Milan was playing hard press defense, trying to win it back... When Milan had the ball, United let them posses it... Especially with the team down early. On top of that, their offenese was too one dimensional, and often times forced... Milan clearly deserved to win today...
But aside from that, I had a hard time figuring out who was worse... The man in the middle (unsure of his name) or the color commentator in the booth for ESPN, both showed their lack of intelligence quite often.
I can't believe I'm saying this (again...) but "Go Liverpool" (ouch, that hurts inside)
Anyway Man U were not only outplayed but Ferguson was also out coached. He took a risk in putting Vidic in and it just didn't work. Rooney and Ronaldo finally met a good defense. The whole Milan mid-field deserves player of match but Guttoso was just superb. Kaka proved once agian that he is way ahead of Ronaldo and he is the best in the world at the moments. Milan get your Revenge against those Kop fans.
I only saw the last half hour, but united looked terrible. I only saw one united shot and it was way off by ronaldo. It looked like milan were playing on an empty field they had so much space to work with.
Kaka and seedorf's goals were both nice and gilardino had no one within fifty feet of him when he started that run.
Liverpool just have to contain kaka now if they want to win, but it should be a great game. A liverool united final did not sound very exiting to me.
also i agree with whoever said that kaka is the better player because he plays with his team not by himself.
Last edited by terrapin_turtle on May 2nd at 2:14 PM.
Ouch. It really smarts when you fall to earth. Man U (and therefore the EPL) were embarrassed by that. Not a lot to say other than having neither Chelsea nor Man U in Athens kind of dimishes the FA Cup Final somehow. Best two teams in England playing for the FA Cup hasn't the same ring as best two teams in Europe playing for the FA Cup. It's kind of taken the tension out of that game. Others have a view?
I think Leverpool may have a better shot against AC Milan than if they'd played Man U, but Milan look good enough.
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